Not liking the scar as much, now that I am issued one

[gpwasr10]

I generally like FN products; however, after seeing this, I think I'll just go with a piston upper for my ARs. Thanks for the heads-up.

I went with the new "580" series Mini-14 for my "Piston Fix". Been very happy with it so far. This SCAR seems like... well... a "Scar" on FN's rep.

[mriddick]

the fal is simple to field strip and clean. the only tool really needed is the gas nut wrench in case it needs adjustments.

He's removing the barrel and doing a complete tear down, I bet if you ask FN what tools are needed to completely take down a FAL there would be a torque wrench amongst other specialty tools FN would gladly sell the government to do the job.

[deth502]

fal bbls are clocked and tightened, no torque value exists.

[mriddick]

fal bbls are clocked and tightened, no torque value exists.

I'm quite sure there is a torque spec

[Penguin]

I'm quite sure there is a torque spec

If I am not mistaken for an L1A1 it is 120-181 ft. lbs

[imanaknut]

First I want to point out to those quoting prices, we are talking about the SCAR 17, not the "cheaper" SCAR 16.

The civilian SCAR-16 is around $2300, the Civilian SCAR-17 is around $3000.

I just wish we had the right to keep and bear arms that was protected by some law so that we could own the military version as shown in the photos.

That said, I agree that there is no place for "c" and "e" clips on any firearm, and that thin sliver of plastic that holds the pistol grip nut in place is insane.

[NewbieAKguy]

Again, thank you for what you're doing and for the honest input about the SCAR 17. I admit I was pining for a 17s, but after your assessment about it and other things that have turned me off from it (outrageous price, and charging $40+ for basically modified FAL mags, reciprocating charging handle).

I'm really liking the fact that I traded my acr for a POF-USA P308, instead of saving up even more for the scar 17s.

[mriddick]

First I want to point out to those quoting prices, we are talking about the SCAR 17, not the "cheaper" SCAR 16.

The civilian SCAR-16 is around $2300, the Civilian SCAR-17 is around $3000.

I just wish we had the right to keep and bear arms that was protected by some law so that we could own the military version as shown in the photos.

That said, I agree that there is no place for "c" and "e" clips on any firearm, and that thin sliver of plastic that holds the pistol grip nut in place is insane.

The only reason I was quoting a price was because that's what the price of my 16 was, BTW the only civilian 17's I've seen were all $3400, regardless I don't see how they get either price out of the 556 or 762 versions...(my biggest complaint). I understand this is a 17 but the issues are the same with the 16 which is the plastic lower that seems like it would crack if you dropped the hammer without the upper in place and the grip attachment.

[hazmat]

the fal is simple to field strip and clean. the only tool really needed is the gas nut wrench in case it needs adjustments.

other than that, even an ak needs a punch and screwdriver for complete takedown. and an ar also requires a torque wrench for complete dis assembly.

i dont think the tools needed for complete rebuild make it not appropriate as a military weapon, i think the small clips that are easily lost, need to be constantly replaced at best, are the first clue that its just plain a piss poor design. at work, ive seen a lot of small 2cycle engines that use similar setups to hold in the wristpins, and cannot count how many times ive seen them fail, a minor problem, from a small part prone to failure, but in doing so, get caught between teh piston and cylinder )or bolt and receiver in this case_ and completely ruin the whole fucking thing from a $.02 part.

other than that "a tool is needed for proper cleaning of the gas system" again, i dont think special tools should be needed just to field strip and clean.

That's what I was trying to get at. If it requires that many tools above and beyond what is reasonably expected to do user/armorer level PMCS, then it's usefullness as a military weapon is severly compromised. It's one thing to have a punch included in the cleaning kit, ala the AK. It's a whole other beast to require the level of tooling you need.

To me, it seems to be a hallmark of FN is all. You shouldn't need an Engineering degree to do maintenance on a weapon.

[mriddick]

What I was getting at is if you are being trained to do things in the factory way you are going to use alot of funny tools the factory wants you to use. I'm sure the 17 isn't that far different from the 16 but from what I've seen the design is very simple and works well (the 16 atleast). I'm doubtful many will ever need a torque wrench to keep it going just as some here didn't seem to know a FAL has a torque spec for it's barrel (everyone knows you just tighten them down till they time). I bet not everyone knows pin gauges are needed to build a FAL either (again "need" is relevant as many of us have built one without them).

In comparing the 16 to my AR's I think the FN is a huge improvement in several ways, and it really doesn't seem that complex in comparison. Which is why I have such a hard time understanding why it costs 4X as much (or the 17's 6X).

I think it's the difference is between official training the factory way and how we make by to make things work. I'm guessing it comes down to most of the FAL's we've built are for nothing more serious then punching holes while Hatedbysheeple's 17 is for much more serious work.

[was_peacemaker]

Just curious here. Yet, wouldn't a SIG 550 be a better choice than the M4 or SCAR?

[mriddick]

Just curious here. Yet, wouldn't a SIG 550 be a better choice than the M4 or SCAR?

The OP is working on a 17, it's in 7.62N caliber that is a whole other animal then the 556 round the M4 or Sig uses. If comparing the M4 to the Sig or SCAR16 (I own all 3) I'd say the SCAR is the best of both the M4 and Sig designs, as accurate as the M4, a better gas system then the Sig and very light weight to boot. I would bet if given choices of combat 7.62N rifles the SCAR17 would likewise come out on top of what is out there as well (accuracy, weight, design). Again about the only place IMO these really lose to you and I is in price, they are insanely expensive IMO which is something the military never worries about.

[gunslinger]

The XM-8 was a fine weapon, but somebody didn't like the idea of adopting a german engineered gun...