I didn't know what to title this but I figure I'd get the right people looking in on this.
If you can take 2 car batteries and power a 5000watt inveter or 4 batteries and power 2-5000watt inverters, THEN what stops people from hooking up a 2000watt generator to 2-5000watt inverters and then you'd have a "10,000watt genertor".
4 car batteries can't have more amps than 2000watts off a generator...
Or did I just "invent" something??
BISHOP
Not sure this part of the math worksOriginally Posted by BISHOP
I'm not sure, but doesn't a generator put out AC current and an inverter needs to draw on DC current.....how would you input AC into DC??
No enemy of America would have ever been killed if they didn't show up to be killed. HDR
i can tell your not asian, with math skills like that.
Have you been licking battery terminals again???
I assume you're getting at the idea of perpetually looping energy sources for the purpose maintaining/amplifying themself to provide a free and either constant or increasing supply of power?
Not possible. That's perpetual motion.
Laws of energy conservation. Only way to make it work is to break that set of laws and that's one of the holy grails of science at our current level of knowledge.
The man who figures out how to do that either owns the world or dies before the day is over, depending on who finds out about the discovery first. It's the same reason purely magnetic motors don't work. Good idea, but the reality of physics on all known levels has something different in mind.
Sure they do, a 2000 watt generator only produces 16 amps @ 120volts (volts x amps = watts)
OK, I'll try to make it more simpler.
How much power/amps does 4 car batteries produce?
How many amps does a 2000watt generator produce?
Could you get a 12volt converter to change the 2000w AC to DC?
Could you THEN power 2- 5000w inverters to said DC supply from the generator?
Its not a purpetual device because all of the power is comming from a GASOLINE GENERATOR.
BISHOP
LMFAO!
I think his equation would = battery failure
what you would need to do is use large caps like one or two 20+ farad caps or 10-20 1 farad capsPure sine wave or modified sine wave inverters?
There are generally two types of inverters on the market for residential use. These are pure sine wave and modified sine wave inverters. The differences between the two are quite substantial in overall usefulness and cost.
They are 'pure'. This means a cleaner running system that allows most equipment that would run on standard electrical power outlets to be powered by the inverter. This purity of this sine wave allows for a lower harmonic distortion factor similar to the standard power outlet.
With a pure sine wave power inverter sensitive electronics will run better overall with more efficient processes and less audible noise. There are some types of electronics that will not work at all with a modified sine wave and this much more expensive version is the only true answer to your power needs.
Modified sine wave power inverters are generally much cheaper in cost than the pure sine wave inverters. However, the price drop comes with a cost in efficiency and noise reduction. They will reliably run equipment that isn't as sensitive as some high-end electronics but they may generate an electrical hum or distort sounds in some manner.
There are a few types of electronics that a modified sine wave power inverter cannot run effectively. Generally any highly technical piece of electronic computer should be checked with the manufacturer to determine if a modified sine wave will work for you. Laptops, laser printers, optical hard drives, and a great deal of medical equipment such as oxygen concentrators will not work properly with this type of power inverter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
You don't power up an inverter you use it to make AC electricity out of DC and you cannot get more power from that inverter than you put into it minus heat loss. large UPS inverters use wet cell or gel cell deep discharge batteries because they would burn up a fast discharge battery like your car battery. If your load is 1200 watts and your inverter is 5000 watts you will only draw 1200 watts from the inverter but more like 1230 watts from the battery pack. There is always a net loss, you will never break even. If you exceed the load limit on your inverter it will shut itself down in a hurry. If you exceed the capacity of the batteries the inverter will increase the voltage and decrease the amperage to the detriment of your load. Your batteries will drain out and at about 60% of battery level the UPS will shut down. I'm afraid you didn't invent anything.
Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA
"THE STATE THAT SEPARATES ITS SCHOLARS FROM IT WARRIORS WILL HAVE ITS THINKING DONE BY COWARDS AND ITS FIGHTING DONE BY FOOLS"
THUCYDIDES.
RV and Boat batteries are rated for continuous out put. The cold cranking rating of starting batteries are rated for shorter duration and higher output. That said, your Deep Cycle RV/Boat battery will deliver a declining power output from thier 500 amp to 1000 amp full charge output.
The generator charging the batteries will have to store the energy in the battery(s) with some power lost in the process. If you are putting out more amps than you used to charge it/them, the discharge will last a shorter duration than the charge. As the batteries age they will take longer to charge and discharge faster until they are spent and will not hold a charge. Normally this is a "dead" cell.
I could see your configuration IF you needed a high power output over a short duration.
The better configuration would be to have a high output gen set and charge the batteries over a shorter period and use them for a longer duration at low output. This is the standard for solar cell installations when off the grid. The cells supply more power than used during the day and charge the batteries for power at night.
I have a 130 amp altenator in my Freightliner. One project I have my eyes on is to install invertors to power a 220v/50 amp outlet and four 110v/20 amp outlets off the truck. The truck can run at high itle for several days off the 150 gallon tanks.
You are mixing volts with watts.
A 5000 watt inverter (with a theoretical but impossible 100% efficiency) would need 417 amperes from a 12 volt battery. This is figured as:
Amperes = 5000 / 12 = 416.67 amps
With a "real world" efficiency of maybe 65%, the current needed would be 416.67 / 0.65 = 641.03 amperes.
A car battery produces that much current only when cranking a "dead of winter cold" car (a V8 engine with 20W50 oil) and it won't last long at that rate.
If the battery is a 65 amp/hour (not to be confused with "cold cranking amps"), it would last for 65 / 641 = 0.11 hours or 6.6 minutes!
Two car batteries in parallel would give you a whopping 13 minutes!
Not to mention that such a large and sustained current drain would overheat the battery and possibly warp the plates.
Remember, you get nothing for nothing. The three laws of thermodynamics are:
(1) You can't win
(2) You can't break even
(3) You can't stop playing
If you hear "free energy" or "perpetual motion", just laugh and walk away.
Last edited by Krupski; 05-30-2012 at 11:52 AM.
Who told you to think? I don't give you enough information to think. You do what you're told, that's what you do.
Diodes.
Who told you to think? I don't give you enough information to think. You do what you're told, that's what you do.
thats not only an apples and oranges comparison, thats an apples, banana, pears, grapes, watermelon and oranges comparison.
to simplify things, everyth8ing you do, you lose. when you put that gas in the generator, the amount of energy contained in that gallon of gas is much higher then the amount of energy you will get out of it as electricity. when you convert the ac from the generator to dc, there are more losses, and less efficiency. then going through more inverters = more loss. in this equation, that 2000w generator, at the end of the line, might give 1200w of power.
that said, to answer your question exactly, YES. you can do just that. you can convert your 2000w ac generator to dc, and then connect 2@5000w inverters to that dc. youll never get 10000w out of it though, once you hook up more than (as stated before, after counting up all electrical and thermal losses) about 1200w to a combination of both inverters, then something is going to blow up or catch on fire.
OK I understand now.
But I had to read everybody's posts for it to all ball together and make sence.
In my plan there wasn't any batteries used, that was just the compareson.
So one of those 2500 or 5000w inverters can't actually power my skill saw and lamps and desktop pc all at the same time like they say they can...... off of 2 car batteries in my truck?
BISHOP
Likely they can, but they will drain them quickly... The alternator in your truck has higher output than the little gen set you used in the example. My buddy can run all his electric tools off his truck except a matabo grinder/cutter. He runs an electric chain saw and a metal chop saw off an invertor. I run my laptop and a second low draw device off a 400W invertor all the time, even in the Mini Cooper...
i think you are severely underestimating car batteries. they are capable of discharging huge amounts of current is very short periods of time. the problem is that in doing so, their charge dosent last long. thats why you can use your battery to dump a huge amount of power to your started to crank your engine, yet if you crank t for a minute, the battery dies, and when the car is running, it takes a while running the laternator to bring it back up to charge, although you never notice that, unless your making 1 minute trips, then after a while you will notice that that 1 min of running has not replenished the battery, and sooner or later, you will not start.
There's always a loss involved in converting one kind of energy into another. Cars for instance convert the potential energy in gasoline into kinetic by burning it in the combustion chamber, using only the expanding gases to push the pistons along, but more energy is wasted as heat than is used by the pushing of the pistons. When you use a generator to run an inverter you run into the same gasoline engine losses and then the conversion losses of going from dc to ac or vice versa. There are always losses to consider, slight to great. No free or eternal enrgy yet. Now if you could tap into a lightning bolt and store that energy it may last you a while. Or if you could tap into the stream of particles the sun throws at our ionosphere 24/7/365 you'd have unlimited powa, it amounts to something like 300kv and millions of amps.
How about simple solar heat?
Who told you to think? I don't give you enough information to think. You do what you're told, that's what you do.
Harleys convert gasoline into noise, vibration, and divorce
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks