US Domestic Politics Summary

[T2K]

Individual Responsibility (for success and failure) vs Collective Responsibility for each Individiual

and

Societal Order vs Individual Freedoms

I think those two sets of more or less conflicting (of course there are grey areas) concepts define our problems, and those of many modern nations.

"Freedom is messy" is always something I've believed. I live in Singapore, a place with limited individual freedoms but a very, very high level of societal order. It is nice not to have to consider bad neighborhoods and personal safety, but ultimately the quality of a people overall is raised by having more freedom.

Also, people seem to inhrently lean one way or the other on the points above, and rarely if ever change their minds.

[5.56NATO]

Ceasar Augustus forced the entire world into pax Romana, Roman peace, a peace enforced by the threat slaughter at the point of pilum and gladius. And every nation paid Rome for that "peace". It's where the mafia learned how to do what it does. I suppose there's no other way to enforce peace. Me I'd rather have liberty with the danger it entails.

[Kadmos]

I think that kind of liberty to a large degree is a myth, moreover its unwanted.

Society simply does not work without a fairly large degree of order, imposed from on high.

In a strange way that kind of order actually promotes freedom, you do not have the opportunities for cooperation, large scale construction, or even the freedom of movement without also having at least somewhat rigid societal rules.

Part of the greatness of Pax Romana was you could travel the known world and say Civis Romanus sum. I am a Roman citizen. And you knew you had the full protection of the law and travel free from molestation.

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

Peace enfoirced by murder is not peace.

It is a prison with razor sharp bars.

That is hardly "freedom".

When faced wioth a choice of criminals with badges or criminals without badges I preffer the latter. At least they do not feel a sense of impughnity when they are treated in kind for their transgressions.

[imanaknut]

This country of "We The People" was set up so that the government served the people, not the other way around. In all of time there was never a country set up that didn't have a supreme leader like a king, pharaoh, tsar, or other monarch that when they said something you jumped or died. The idea of a president that answered to the people and not the other way around was new, and it worked until people started getting too lazy to try for the promised pursuit of happiness and believed that happiness was a right given to them by their government without any work needed on their part.

True freedom means you have the possibility of failure, and most people accept that as part of the package. Unfortunately many these days want the guarantee of non-failure, and with that comes a form of government that this American doesn't believe in.

[mrkalashnikov]

This country of "We The People" was set up so that the government served the people, not the other way around. In all of time there was never a country set up that didn't have a supreme leader like a king, pharaoh, tsar, or other monarch that when they said something you jumped or died. The idea of a president that answered to the people and not the other way around was new, and it worked until people started getting too lazy to try for the promised pursuit of happiness and believed that happiness was a right given to them by their government without any work needed on their part.



True freedom means you have the possibility of failure, and most people accept that as part of the package. Unfortunately many these days want the guarantee of non-failure, and with that comes a form of government that this American doesn't believe in.

Great post, Nut.