Caught a theif at a gunshow

[mriddick]

I got a report from a friend attending the NGD show in Louisville that some wannabe stole a baby browning off a table, slipped it in his pocket and headed for the doors. Luckily he was spotted by a guy my friend went to the show with, was followed out to be busted at the door. My friend said the scene was pretty funny,as in the slight struggle his baggy pants dropped to his knees, in the end the kid was zip tied on the floor crying to be let go waiting for the police to show, all still with his pants down around his ankles .

One thing that pissed off my friend was when the LEO showed up he seemed more concerned in who zip tied the guy and started in on him before he ever got to the thief. Luckily that guy was a retired LEO so that went away pretty fast after that was discovered. I wonder how you are you supposed to keep a thief at bay till the law shows up, maybe some LEO's here could answer that?

[ltorlo64]

One thing that pissed off my friend was when the LEO showed up he seemed more concerned in who zip tied the guy and started in on him before he ever got to the thief. Luckily that guy was a retired LEO so that went away pretty fast after that was discovered. I wonder how you are you supposed to keep a thief at bay till the law shows up, maybe some LEO's here could answer that?

I'm not a LEO, but since you were at a gun show, I bet about 15-30 guys standing around him with various guns would have kept him quiet. He might have even asked for the zip tie just so the guys with guns would go away!

[Vegeta]

Sounds like the cop was being an asshole. If the guy was caught stealing I don't see a problem with detaining him. The alternative could have been worse for the thief like an ass whooping or even getting shot.

[HDR]

I bet about 15-30 guys standing around him with various guns would have kept him quiet.

With 15-30 men standing around anyone; guns only make dying much quicker and less painful.

[American Rage]

With 15-30 men standing around anyone; guns only make dying much quicker and less painful.

lol, I can see the carnage as I type.

The cop was being a dick. Of course, if every honest citizen was allowed to perform their duty, there'd be no need for cops. Thus the reason they get so upset when citizens act.



Rage

[mriddick]

Is there an official way the law likes citizens to detain criminals till they can come and take them away?

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes, we are supposed to just let them run away so that the cops can give chase. That's what they do isn't it?

They don't actually protect or serve other than to come see what easy pickins crimes they can find amongst the law abiding. They like this better - much less risky.

OK, that was uncalled for.

But seriously, the cops don't like civilians doing "their job" - that's part of the problem as I see it. They need to understand that it's "all of our job" to catch criminals and that they are the ones that have the authority to take it from there. They should look at law abiding citizens that help them as a proper asset, not some kind of threat.

I am no threat to a good cop. Law abiding citizens that lend assistance to the police are an asset. They should recognize this and show gratitude to those folks - that would be the classy thing to do and would result in they themselves receiving more gratitude from the general public as deserved.

That's how I see it.

[American Rage]

Is there an official way the law likes citizens to detain criminals till they can come and take them away?

You are to get a good discription and perhaps a license plate number. Of course if you get your brains blown out, that ain't the cops problem, now is it? Other than that, sit down and shut up, they don't want no 'heros' to fuck things up worse than they already are.

The best way to speak to a cop is to say nothing to the cop until asked. Be polite and completely unemotional. Once he is done questioning you, resume the sit down and stfu position. Follow these simple rules and you 'should' be fine.



Rage

[O.S.O.K.]

Thank you Komrad.

[Sidartha]

I wonder how you are you supposed to keep a thief at bay till the law shows up, maybe some LEO's here could answer that?

I found this but since I don't know where you are I don't know how helpful it is.

In the most crime ridden spot in the country, our nation's capitol, District of Columbia Law 23- 582(b) reads as follows:

(b) A private person may arrest another -

(1) who he has probable cause to believe is committing in his presence -

(A) a felony, or

(B) an offense enumerated in section 23-581 (a)(2); or

(2) in aid of a law enforcement officer or special policeman, or other person authorized by law to make an arrest.

(c) Any person making an arrest pursuant to this section shall deliver the person arrested to a law enforcement officer without unreasonable delay. (July 29, 1970, 84 Stat. 630, Pub. L. 91-358, Title II, § 210(a); 1973 Ed., § 23-582; Apr. 30, 1988, D.C. Law 7-104, § 7(e), 35 DCR 147.)

In Tennessee, it has been held that a private citizen has the right to arrest when a felony has been committed and he has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested committed it. Reasonable grounds will justify the arrest, whether the facts turn out to be sufficient or not. (See Wilson v. State, 79 Tenn. 310 (1833).

Contrast this to Massachusetts law, which while permitting a private person to arrest for a felony, permits those acquitted of the felony charge to sue the arresting person for false arrest or false imprisonment. (See Commonwealth v. Harris, 11 Mass. App. 165 (1981))

Kentucky law holds that a person witnessing a felony must take affirmative steps to prevent it, if possible. (See Gill v. Commonwealth, 235 KY 351 (1930.)

Indeed, Kentucky citizens are permitted to kill fleeing felons while making a citizen's arrest (Kentucky Criminal Code § 37; S 43, §44.)

Utah law permits citizen's arrest, but explicitly prohibits deadly force. (See Chapter 76-2-403.)

The rest of the article is here.
http://www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm

[imanaknut]

Next time you have to detain a theft suspect at a gun show, since the Uniformed Civilian didn't like you using a zip-tie, just beat the guy until he is unconscious, then if the Uniformed Civilian that shows asks why you had to beat the guy, just explain that the last Uniformed Civilian didn't like it when you detained the thief using the zip-ties.

And police like you ran into forget that the term "COP" came from one of two recognized acronyms, Constable On Patrol or Citizen On Patrol. And they wonder why honest people feel the way they do about Uniformed Civilians.

[Kadmos]

It's not that cops feel their toes are stepped on by citizens arrest, it's that citizens arrest is so close to kidnapping or "unlawful detention" that the citizen "arresting" the accused may be committing a more serious crime than was committed in the first place.

While most states "allow" for some sort of citizens arrest, citizen's do not have the legal protections or authority that a cop has.

Plainly put it's not that unusual for the citizen arrestor to get sued and/or brought up on criminal charges. It really does happen.

Often the accused will use the threat of lawsuit against the citizen to pressure them to have the DA let the guy off, or just threaten it to the DA.

Store owners can get in big trouble if they detain someone improperly, larger stores tend to teach security how to detain someone without actually detaining them.

[Solidus-snake]

Damn i was meaning to go to that show too.

Also, dont ya just love how criminals get just as much or more rights than law abiding citizens?

[RJ Shooter]

Most states allow allow you to detain when the commission of a felony is witnessed. Since a firearm was involved (actually, thousands were involved - LOL), that also changes the dynamics of a "citizens arrest!"

If you're acting as an 'agent' of a retail establishment, you have even more rights of detainment as you can hold for misdemeanor crimes. This is why a mall cop can hold someone for stealing a CD from a music store, shirt from A&F, etc....

[deth502]

Next time you have to detain a theft suspect at a gun show, since the Uniformed Civilian didn't like you using a zip-tie, just beat the guy until he is unconscious, then if the Uniformed Civilian that shows asks why you had to beat the guy, just explain that the last Uniformed Civilian didn't like it when you detained the thief using the zip-ties.

And police like you ran into forget that the term "COP" came from one of two recognized acronyms, Constable On Patrol or Citizen On Patrol. And they wonder why honest people feel the way they do about Uniformed Civilians.

using the term "copper" for a police man dated back to the days when the shields (badges) were made from copper.

i always thought "cop"was just a shortened version of that.

[alismith]

In the "Free State" of Maryland, I've never been to a gun show that didn't have uniformed police at the door, or patrolling the aisles. I believe the people responsible for holding the gun show are required to have, at least, one police officer on duty at all times the show is open to the public.

[slamfire51]

There as a kid (19-20) at the Nashville gun show who snatched a CAR off a table and made a dash for the cafeteria door only to find it was locked.
When confronted by vendors, he handed them the rifle and raised his hands. It was a short wait until a Metro cop arrested him and carried him out, crying the whole way. LOL

[Randomluck]

How dare they detain a democrat who's just plying his chosen profession! The nerve of it all. Now this poor Policeman has to go from just filling out a simple theft report to having to arrest this poor democrat, fill out all that paperwork, go to court and all that other inconvienent shit. The nerve of those gun nuts!

[Kadmos]

using the term "copper" for a police man dated back to the days when the shields (badges) were made from copper.

i always thought "cop"was just a shortened version of that.

Neither, it actually comes from the verb "cop", like "cop a feel" "cop a plea", cop means "to take"...for police it refers to the power of arrest, to take a person.

"Copper" actually came later, slang for person who cops.

Rule of thumb for acronyms, if it's possibly older than the 20th century it's probably not an acronym. They just weren't common.

[TheMrMitch]

I took a fella in with handcuffs once as I no longer wanted to be responsible for his bond. Good reason too.

The booking officer asked him if I had hurt him in any way which set me off. He had me shut up for the moment and explained he was now MY witness had the fella said I hurt him. Left me red faced.