Rape a maid, get 5 days community service

[mriddick]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/24/new.york.banker.guilty/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

And no it's not Dominique Strauss-Kahn although this case probably gives him some solace in knowing that in NYC money will buy you a get out of jail card. As his own lawyer said...
"What he pled guilty to is less serious than jumping a turnstile in New York.". All for sexual abuse, unlawful imprisonment, forcible touching and harassment. Oh well I'm sure somewhere in New Yorks prison system there's not a common joe rotting in prison for doing something like what Omar did.

[LAGC]

It's long been said that jail/prison is for the "little" people... those faceless masses who don't have the money or power to broker their way out of a punishment more fitting of the crime.

Someone on Democratic Underground posted two news stories from the same day last week. The first was of a corporate crook, big mortgage lender who bilked home-owners out of billions of dollars. His punishment? 48 months prison, will probably be out in 2 years with good behavior. The second story? A homeless man who robbed a bank (with just a note, not a gun), only took a single $100 bill and handed the rest of the money back to the teller. His punishment? 15 years, hard-time.

It's pretty clear how the "justice" system works in this country.

[Richard Simmons]

It's long been said that jail/prison is for the "little" people... those faceless masses who don't have the money or power to broker their way out of a punishment more fitting of the crime.

It's pretty clear how the "justice" system works in this country.

Guess you've never heard of Bernie Madoff? Sentenced to 150 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

[Viking350]

Guess you've never heard of Bernie Madoff? Sentenced to 150 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

It depends on who you commit the crime against. A rich person commits a crime against a rich person, jail. A rich person commits a crime against a poor person, community service.

[Richard Simmons]

It depends on who you commit the crime against. A rich person commits a crime against a rich person, jail. A rich person commits a crime against a poor person, community service.

That my be true to some extent though the majority of crime isn't committed by "rich people" so it's kind of hard to say for sure. IIRC we have about 10,000,000 crimes a year in this country. What percentage of those are committed by "rich people" I can't say but I would presume that they represent the smallest percentage of lawbreakers, much like they represent the smaller percentage of wealth holders. Better access to better lawyers also doesn't hurt. I still say that contrary to what LAGC posted, "rich people" DO go to jail. They also don't commit as many crimes as the rest of the population.

[mriddick]

Regardless It would seem rape is rape, just because someone doesn't come from a social group that supposedly isn't known for rape 5 days community service for this crime seems pretty light.


However if crimes and punishment between the social groups that is the discussion I would bet when talking crimes there is actually very little difference in the numbers (%) of the groups. Normally the rich will avoid jail because of a few reasons. They generally do alot of social good, whether we like it not the courts will take this into consideration. They also generally have family and friends backing (bigger then most realize in court), they know the law and their rights better (they are smart enough to ask for a lawyer, not take a plea and not talk). They have money (they can buy a good lawyer), they also rarely commit their crimes in public. All these things will help keep anyone (not just the rich) out of prison, it just so happens that the rich tend to have most if not all of these things working for them every time.

[Richard Simmons]

Regardless It would seem rape is rape, just because someone doesn't come from a social group that supposedly isn't known for rape 5 days community service for this crime seems pretty light.


However if crimes and punishment between the social groups that is the discussion I would bet when talking crimes there is actually very little difference in the numbers (%) of the groups. Normally the rich will avoid jail because of a few reasons. They generally do alot of social good, whether we like it not the courts will take this into consideration. They also generally have family and friends backing (bigger then most realize in court), they know the law and their rights better (they are smart enough to ask for a lawyer, not take a plea and not talk). They have money (they can buy a good lawyer), they also rarely commit their crimes in public. All these things will help keep anyone (not just the rich) out of prison, it just so happens that the rich tend to have most if not all of these things working for them every time.

So you're saying, for example that if people worth over $1M represent say, 10% of the population then they commit 10% of the murders, rapes, etc? I realize there is blue collar and white collar crime and cheating on your taxes is a crime as is rape and murder. I just know that what I see in my locality is a lot of middle class and lower crime, usually on people of the same class. Guess I'll have to see how that rings out demographically. Always figured people with more means had less incentive to commit crimes at least from the prospect of a financial incentive.

[mriddick]

So you're saying, for example that if people worth over $1M represent say, 10% of the population then they commit 10% of the murders, rapes, etc? I realize there is blue collar and white collar crime and cheating on your taxes is a crime as is rape and murder. I just know that what I see in my locality is a lot of middle class and lower crime, usually on people of the same class. Guess I'll have to see how that rings out demographically. Always figured people with more means had less incentive to commit crimes at least from the prospect of a financial incentive.
About .3% of Americans make over 1 million dollars a year. Would it sound better if it was said .3% of all rapes were committed by that group? I also believe rape is not about money, it is about power and sex. In some ways murder is about both. I think there are probably less strong type crimes amongst the rich (armed robbery, home invasion, etc...) but higher embezzlement, theft by deceit, and other such crimes. Rape I bet would bet is probably fairly even across the lines (although I would guess convictions would favor the poor).

It would be interesting to study this although I'm not sure how you'd get your numbers since I would doubt things like conviction rates would mean much if the base idea is one group doesn’t get convicted as much. My opinion is what gets people off the most in any crime is understanding the legal system and having the smarts not to convict yourself. IMO just having access to lawyers helps the rich out quite abit compared to the poor but if you're smart enough it's not really manditory. I know in my case it was 2 months before I talked to my public defender, that was a lot of time for me to make a legal mistake on my own. I know lawyers who will respond to their rich clients DWI charge before they make it to the station (as happened to my niece).

To get back to the OP, in this case do you think a bum off the streets would of got 5 days community service or even a reduced charge if he had done what Omar had? do you think Omar's money had something to do with his ability to beat these charges down to the degree he did?

[romak10/63UF]

5 days community service working 4 to 8 hours a day depending on what needs to be done. This High paid Jewish figure must of paid off the Judge , The Jury .... Its true Bull shit walks , Money talks....

[Richard Simmons]

To get back to the OP, in this case do you think a bum off the streets would of got 5 days community service or even a reduced charge if he had done what Omar had? do you think Omar's money had something to do with his ability to beat these charges down to the degree he did?



You know, I'm not sure. Unlike your thread header the suspect was never charged with rape or even attempted rape. I presume the $5,000,000 lawsuit is a civil suit brought by the victim who most likely agreed to the plea agreement. Per New York law sexual abuse in the third degree is a class B misdemeanor so I'm not sure incarceration for anyone is a realistic option, especially if it's a first offense and there was no mention of any previous charges against this person. To know for sure I guess we'd need to know how many people in NYC are sentenced to jail time for that crime? Some times money buys the law. Some time the presence of money brings about an assumption that it bought the law. In this case I can't find that even his initial charges carry a mandatory sentence so maybe he got what the law allows and that's all it is?


In a different context here's pretty much the same senario. You're at a party and follow some hot chick into the bathroom (depending on how much you've had to drink maybe she's not even hot). You grab her butt and try and kiss her. She pulls away and you step between her and the door and tell her "Come on, I just want to have a good time" and grab her boob. She pushes past you out the door and calls the cops. Pretty stupid behavior on your part but is it something that should land you in jail for what, six month, a year or two? According to some of you it is.

[mriddick]

In a different context here's pretty much the same senario. You're at a party and follow some hot chick into the bathroom (depending on how much you've had to drink maybe she's not even hot). You grab her butt and try and kiss her. She pulls away and you step between her and the door and tell her "Come on, I just want to have a good time" and grab her boob. She pushes past you out the door and calls the cops. Pretty stupid behavior on your part but is it something that should land you in jail for what, six month, a year or two? According to some of you it is.

A maid at work bringing tissues to a patron equates in your mind to a hot chick at a party? I want to work where you do :)

[Richard Simmons]

A maid at work bringing tissues to a patron equates in your mind to a hot chick at a party? I want to work where you do :)


No it doesn't so you can change it to an ugly chick at the laundrymat if you like but why not address my point instead of how I was trying to make it? No one was accused of rape yet you stated that in your title, why? To extend a bias? None of the crimes either accused or convicted of, from what I can tell are felonies so doesn't it seem appropriate to first get the facts right and then determine what sentence was even remotely appropriate before attempting to suggest that the sentence that was handed down was out of the ordinary?

[mriddick]

No it doesn't so you can change it to an ugly chick at the laundrymat if you like but why not address my point instead of how I was trying to make it? No one was accused of rape yet you stated that in your title, why? To extend a bias? None of the crimes either accused or convicted of, from what I can tell are felonies so doesn't it seem appropriate to first get the facts right and then determine what sentence was even remotely appropriate before attempting to suggest that the sentence that was handed down was out of the ordinary?
Sexual abuse, unlawful imprisonment, forcible touching and harassment was the original charge. Let someone do that to someone in your family and see what you call it. Maybe rape isn't exactly the right legal term but it sure sounds like it fits.

I'm not debating the way you put together a scenario I'm saying lets just stick to this story. You're taking a woman at work and applying the same standard to a hot chick at a bar or now laudrymat, next to be the Circle K or something else I'm sure. You're also starting with the pled down charge VS the original 4 charges which in how that was done IMO shows the bias. The ability of this guy to get sexual abuse, unlawful imprisonment, forcible touching and harassment pled down to a simple 3rd degree sex abuse so seemingly easy his lawyer was bragging about the charge she was able to get is the issue. If the guy's money had nothing to do with that then I'd like to see someone fully explain how those 4 serious charges got pled down to something seemingly so simple so quickly before we move on to the made up scenarios.

[Richard Simmons]

Sexual abuse, unlawful imprisonment, forcible touching and harassment was the original charge. Let someone do that to someone in your family and see what you call it. Maybe rape isn't exactly the right legal term but it sure sounds like it fits.

I'm not debating the way you put together a scenario I'm saying lets just stick to this story. You're taking a woman at work and applying the same standard to a hot chick at a bar or now laudrymat, next to be the Circle K or something else I'm sure. You're also starting with the pled down charge VS the original 4 charges which in how that was done IMO shows the bias. The ability of this guy to get sexual abuse, unlawful imprisonment, forcible touching and harassment pled down to a simple 3rd degree sex abuse so seemingly easy his lawyer was bragging about the charge she was able to get is the issue. If the guy's money had nothing to do with that then I'd like to see someone fully explain how those 4 serious charges got pled down to something seemingly so simple so quickly before we move on to the made up scenarios.

Still don't understand why you decided to run with this the way you have as it's kind of out of character for you. Facts don't seem to be a consideration for discussion so I'm done.

[Kadmos]

If the guy's money had nothing to do with that then I'd like to see someone fully explain how those 4 serious charges got pled down to something seemingly so simple so quickly before we move on to the made up scenarios.

She goes into the room while he is in the shower, she doesn't hear him in the shower as he just turned the water off. He didn't hear her enter because when she knocked the shower was on.

He exits the shower and is now blocking the door, many hotel bathrooms are right next to the entry door, so exiting the bathroom blocks the door.

This blocks her way out and that alone can be construed as "unlawful imprisonment"

He was startled to see someone in his room and his towel drops (which could be sexual abuse right there)

She freaks out screams rape and rushes him

He grabs her to explain, or possibly they fall the the floor as she pushes by (forceable touching, sexual abuse, and unlawful imprisonment)

He call her a fucking bitch and says he's going to get her fired (harassment)


Just one of many many possibilities.

My guess is he got the light charge because it was the best the DA thought he could do.

Assume no torn clothing, no bruises and all you have is "he said, she said", so he confesses to a piddly ass charge and it's next case...otherwise it's an expensive trial that the victim may not even be willing to testify at.

I'm not saying his money had nothing to do with it, obviously it did, but probably not how you think.

From the victims point of view the $5 million is a whole lot more important then him spending maybe 2-3 years in jail. So she allows the DA to reduce the charges, but keeps them of a sexual nature so she can still go after the money. Possible (quite probably)he and her had already cut a deal.

[mriddick]

Still don't understand why you decided to run with this the way you have as it's kind of out of character for you. Facts don't seem to be a consideration for discussion so I'm done.

You are the one making up situations, I'm talking about the case yet facts have no meaning for me?

[mriddick]

She goes into the room while he is in the shower, she doesn't hear him in the shower as he just turned the water off. He didn't hear her enter because when she knocked the shower was on.

He exits the shower and is now blocking the door, many hotel bathrooms are right next to the entry door, so exiting the bathroom blocks the door.

This blocks her way out and that alone can be construed as "unlawful imprisonment"

He was startled to see someone in his room and his towel drops (which could be sexual abuse right there)

She freaks out screams rape and rushes him

He grabs her to explain, or possibly they fall the the floor as she pushes by (forceable touching, sexual abuse, and unlawful imprisonment)

He call her a fucking bitch and says he's going to get her fired (harassment)


Just one of many many possibilities.

My guess is he got the light charge because it was the best the DA thought he could do.

Assume no torn clothing, no bruises and all you have is "he said, she said", so he confesses to a piddly ass charge and it's next case...otherwise it's an expensive trial that the victim may not even be willing to testify at.



Was the actual way it happened or just a scenario you've made up now? What Richard isn't getting is I would like to know the background story of the case, I've looked and can't find it. I would find it interesting to hear both sides of what happened and how 4 serous charges got dropped so quickly to one minor one. I'm not saying money had everything to do with it, but at the same time I would bet it had something to do with it... To deny that seems rather simple to me, about as simple as LAGC saying there are two systems.


I'm not saying his money had nothing to do with it, obviously it did, but probably not how you think.

I think he knew enough to know he should let his lawyer do the talking and bought a good one. That is what I think his money did for him. Did you think I thought he walked in, laid a wad of hundreds on the judges desk and said I'm raping anyone I feel like? :)

[Kadmos]

Was the actual way it happened or just a scenario you've made up now? What Richard isn't getting is I would like to know the background story of the case, I've looked and can't find it. I would find it interesting to hear both sides of what happened and how 4 serous charges got dropped so quickly to one minor one. I'm not saying money had everything to do with it, but at the same time I would bet it had something to do with it... To deny that seems rather simple to me, about as simple as LAGC saying there are two systems.

Lol, nope, just thinking what the defense might be.

I was thinking the same basic thing, all we have heard is the charges, then the reduction of the charges, no actual facts.

So, perhaps it was horrible and violent, perhaps it was an innocent mistake...I dunno.

To me the assumption really has to be more that they obviously don't have the best of evidence. Rich people get tried fairly frequently, some go to jail, some don't...just like the rest of us.

Money helps, mostly in that better lawyers help, and getting a lawyer more quickly helps also.

A rich guy shows up with a lawyer, a poor guy gets a free one usually too late, a middle class guy tends to think he's best of trying to talk his way out of it on his own and not spend the money for a lawyer.

[mriddick]

A rich guy shows up with a lawyer, a poor guy gets a free one usually too late, a middle class guy tends to think he's best of trying to talk his way out of it on his own and not spend the money for a lawyer.

That is an awesome observation, sums everything I've been trying to say in one sentence...