Taliban executes 10 member medical team in Afghanistan

[mriddick]

Supposedly for preaching Christianity and spying, I'd say it's more like normal SOP for dealing with foreigners and those who help them. I guess the idea of helping others is a noble idea but doing so in this region is pretty risky to say the least (as they have found out).


Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Gunmen in the remote northeastern region of Afghanistan shot and killed 10 members of a medical team, police said Saturday.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack that occurred Thursday.

Among the dead were six Americans, two Afghans, a Briton, and a German, said Dirk Frans, director of International Assistance Mission. He said two other Afghans on the team are alive.

The gunmen stopped the victims on a road, took their belongings and shot them one by one, said Aqa Nwor Kentoz, police chief of northern Badakhshan province. An Afghan was released because he was reciting excerpts from the Quran, Kentoz said.

The foreigners were believed to have been doctors, according to the police chief.

The mission -- a non-governmental organization -- has provided a number of services, including eye care and internal medicine for decades. Frans said the people were killed in what police said was a robbery.

The website said an eye-care team had been in Nuristan province "at the invitation of communities there. After having completed their medical work the team was returning to Kabul."

Hans Ronnlund, the assistant to the executive director of the mission group, denied statements by the Taliban that the medical staff was carrying Bibles. Ronnlund said the International Assistance Mission is a humanitarian development organization formed by various Christian groups, but said medical staffers do not carry Bibles.

"We cannot understand how they can say that," he said.

Badakhshan, bordered by Tajikistan to the north and Pakistan to the south, is a sparsely populated region comprised of a majority Tajik population and an Uzbek and Kyrgyz minority. Badakhshan was the only province that was not controlled by the Taliban when it ruled Afghanistan.

This tragedy negatively impacts our ability to continue serving the Afghan people," said an online statement about the organization's work in Afghanistan since 1966. "We hope it will not stop our work that benefits over a quarter of a million Afghans each year."

In Afghanistan's southern Helamnd province, international and Afghan forces killed 14 insurgents in an exchange of fire, said NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). In a separate bombing incident, two Afghans were killed and five others wounded near Heyderabad, in Helmand province.

Also Saturday, ISAF reported the deaths of two international service members in a bombing in southern Afghanistan. Their nationalities were not yet disclosed.

[El Jefe]

I saw this on the news. That eye doctor had been providing eye care in Afghanistan for 30 years. Filthy savages!

[imanaknut]

I keep waiting for the day that the Afghan people get tired of this and join in the fight to get rid of the Taliban.

[mriddick]

I keep waiting for the day that the Afghan people get tired of this and join in the fight to get rid of the Taliban.

Nah they got good men like my son who will do it for them...

[Bluedog]

I keep waiting for the day that the Afghan people get tired of this and join in the fight to get rid of the Taliban.

Your statement is based solidly upon a false premis.

[Mark Ducati]

This was brought up in Sunday school this morning... they said only 6 of the 10 were actually American. The main reason they were executed was because they were Christians... They let the driver go though, because he stated he was muslim and could quote from the Koran, they let him go.

If the muzzies feel so strongly about allah and mohamed, I wonder what would have happened if one of the 10 in the group would have asked for leniency and be allowed to read the koran and possibly convert? These buggers are just looking for an excuse to kill and make a name for themselves... "believe as we do or we'll kill you"... my point is that I bet even if you asked for a chance to believe as they do, they would still kill you.

[Mark Ducati]

and we're always going to have shit like this as long as we play by "civilized" rules. We need to start playing by big boy rules.

Nope... we need to start playing by "cowboy" rules!

[Bluntforce]

This was brought up in Sunday school this morning... they said only 6 of the 10 were actually American. The main reason they were executed was because they were Christians... They let the driver go though, because he stated he was muslim and could quote from the Koran, they let him go.

If the muzzies feel so strongly about allah and mohamed, I wonder what would have happened if one of the 10 in the group would have asked for leniency and be allowed to read the koran and possibly convert? These buggers are just looking for an excuse to kill and make a name for themselves... "believe as we do or we'll kill you"... my point is that I bet even if you asked for a chance to believe as they do, they would still kill you.

If you ever find yourself at the mercy of Afghan tribesmen the word is, "Nanawati" (phonetically, anyway). It means mercy and they are supposed to become 'responsible' for you at that point....and George Washington never told a lie, Elizabeth really was a virgin and Little Red Riding Hood really did get away from the wolf.

[Full Otto]

This was brought up in Sunday school this morning... they said only 6 of the 10 were actually American. The main reason they were executed was because they were Christians... They let the driver go though, because he stated he was muslim and could quote from the Koran, they let him go.

If the muzzies feel so strongly about allah and mohamed, I wonder what would have happened if one of the 10 in the group would have asked for leniency and be allowed to read the koran and possibly convert? These buggers are just looking for an excuse to kill and make a name for themselves... "believe as we do or we'll kill you"... my point is that I bet even if you asked for a chance to believe as they do, they would still kill you.

The pastor of the church my mom attends had a small memorial for them during the service. He was good friends with the eye surgeon for many years. Went to school with him for a while. I guess it was brought up that the driver started quoting from the Qur'an and kept saying he was a Muslim. He was spared and I understand they are wondering if he was involved.

[slamfire51]

Sad all the way around.

IIMO, Christians have no business trying to "convert" the population to Christianity.
The people have been, are and always will be Muslims.
It's the same if Muslims tried to convert Christians here, except we are more civilized and tell them to screw off instead of shooting them.

As far as health care goes, the Afghan Drs. can handle the care with help from us in the form of supplies.

I see no reason for Americans to be there except for our troops to kill as many of the Taliban as possible. The US Government needs to untie their hands and let them fight the war the way WWll was fought. If citizens get smoked......... You never heard of the American people during WWll protesting about civilian casualties. It's all the part of war.

[Full Otto]

I can understand that but as far as the Dr. he'd been there thirty years from what I understand way before the troops now.
I don't think it was as a missionary or anything like that just his own convictions I guess. Seemed to be accepted and not making trouble. Guess the war and politics just steamrolled over them.

[El Jefe]

Sad all the way around.

IIMO, Christians have no business trying to "convert" the population to Christianity.
The people have been, are and always will be Muslims.
It's the same if Muslims tried to convert Christians here, except we are more civilized and tell them to screw off instead of shooting them.

As far as health care goes, the Afghan Drs. can handle the care with help from us in the form of supplies.

I see no reason for Americans to be there except for our troops to kill as many of the Taliban as possible. The US Government needs to untie their hands and let them fight the war the way WWll was fought. If citizens get smoked......... You never heard of the American people during WWll protesting about civilian casualties. It's all the part of war.

Muslims have been hard at work for decades in the inner cities and prisons recruiting converts and new devotes.

[Mark Ducati]

IIMO, Christians have no business trying to "convert" the population to Christianity.

I hear ya... BUT! Christians don't have a choice... in the Bible, its called "The Great Commission"... to spread the gospel to the 4 corners of the earth.

Why?

God told man to spread out and multiply and to inhabit the earth... When man congregated in one region and built the tower of babel against God's will... God confused man by giving him many languages thus forcing man to spread out...

So, man did... man spread to the 4 corners of the earth... so its up to us to reach man.

[slamfire51]

I hear ya... BUT! Christians don't have a choice... in the Bible, its called "The Great Commission"... to spread the gospel to the 4 corners of the earth.

Why?

God told man to spread out and multiply and to inhabit the earth... When man congregated in one region and built the tower of babel against God's will... God confused man by giving him many languages thus forcing man to spread out...

So, man did... man spread to the 4 corners of the earth... so its up to us to reach man.

Man did spread and multiply. "They" built the Tower of Babel and stayed, so let them suffer the consequences God has to bestow upon them.
Christians did as he commanded. If it's your belief to spread the word of God and sacrifice your life for this particular belief, then
God will have mercy on your soul.
IMO, there are many, many other places in the world that the word of God could be spread to. Much safer places.

[DesertDawg]

I hear ya... BUT! Christians don't have a choice... in the Bible, its called "The Great Commission"... to spread the gospel to the 4 corners of the earth.

Why?

God told man to spread out and multiply and to inhabit the earth... When man congregated in one region and built the tower of babel against God's will... God confused man by giving him many languages thus forcing man to spread out...

So, man did... man spread to the 4 corners of the earth... so its up to us to reach man.

I agree with the printed word of the bible, But i have no pity, NO PITY AT ALL, for a group of people to go to such a place and expect to be safe...They belived that God would protect them, and they got waxed..they should have either stayed the fuk home or brought a gun, security or something..

I had to deal with dumb fuks like this my last tour to iraq..they were spreading the word of God, then they hit an IED. guess who had to clean up the mess? Guess who had to C&S the village around the area looking for a missing person?

they should be jailed just like the guy that they found in the mountains for afganistan who was "looking" for Bin laden....

All of them are a bunch of ignorant fools...

[old Grump]

The team had no weapons, no connections with government and no religious material on them. They were all veterans and knew the rules, their only goal was to help people who needed help.

Some people need no understanding, no mercy and no rules of war should apply to them except a swift and violent preferably bloody end and dogs to eat the flesh of their carcasses after the killing. Forgive me for calling the Taliban 'people', they do not deserve that description.

[mriddick]

I agree with the printed word of the bible, But i have no pity, NO PITY AT ALL, for a group of people to go to such a place and expect to be safe...They belived that God would protect them, and they got waxed..they should have either stayed the fuk home or brought a gun, security or something..

I had to deal with dumb fuks like this my last tour to iraq..they were spreading the word of God, then they hit an IED. guess who had to clean up the mess? Guess who had to C&S the village around the area looking for a missing person?

they should be jailed just like the guy that they found in the mountains for afganistan who was "looking" for Bin laden....

All of them are a bunch of ignorant fools...

This is my opinion of anyone that does things "out there and dangerous" as well (applies to extreme sports types). If I understand their religion well enough the reward they were looking for is not here on earth, I wouldn't want any body's son or daughter risking life and limb to bring back their bodies so just let the afghanis bring in or bury the bodies. Heck the driver that lived still owes them a ride back doesn't he?

[nfa1934]

If you ever find yourself at the mercy of Afghan tribesmen the word is, "Nanawati" (phonetically, anyway). It means mercy and they are supposed to become 'responsible' for you at that point....and George Washington never told a lie, Elizabeth really was a virgin and Little Red Riding Hood really did get away from the wolf.

"The Beast" was only a movie (and you're right about the likely outcome of a non-muzzie trying to invoke Pashtun hospitality and protection).

[nfa1934]

I keep waiting for the day that the Afghan people get tired of this and join in the fight to get rid of the Taliban.

I'm also waiting for the Taliban get tired of the Taliban and join in the fight to get rid of the Taliban.

[old Grump]

Would it be to late for a flight of say 1,000 A-10C's roaming the countryside. I think we have around 320 in various configurations of the A-10 in inventory and maybe half of them operational but I'm guessing on that part of it. I never understood why we didn't have more of them. About a week of that and the survivors should all be in the same hole as Osama. Reduced to sticking their tongue out at us on video. Anybody with a gun or a bag of bombs and not in an allied uniform gets a rocket, a bomb or a 30MM enema.

[HDR]

so its up to us to reach man.

They aren't remotely related to being any thing human; one could do as well reaching to a monkey.


I agree with the printed word of the bible, But i have no pity, NO PITY AT ALL, for a group of people to go to such a place and expect to be safe...They belived that God would protect them, and they got waxed..they should have either stayed the fuk home or brought a gun, security or something..

I had to deal with dumb fuks like this my last tour to iraq..they were spreading the word of God, then they hit an IED. guess who had to clean up the mess? Guess who had to C&S the village around the area looking for a missing person?

they should be jailed just like the guy that they found in the mountains for afganistan who was "looking" for Bin laden....

All of them are a bunch of ignorant fools...

They don't what is there waiting. If one hasn't see the executions and torture that is so common place in the 3rd world they don't know. In their heart they can't believe someone would kill them simply because they are alive.

[HDR]

If you ever find yourself at the mercy of Afghan tribesmen the word is, "Nanawati" (phonetically, anyway). It means mercy and they are supposed to become 'responsible' for you at that point....and George Washington never told a lie, Elizabeth really was a virgin and Little Red Riding Hood really did get away from the wolf.

You get 3 days; ask a Muslim.

They usually string it out longer than that, then kill you.

Plus, don't forget they get forgiven when killed.

[daemon734]

Sad all the way around.

IIMO, Christians have no business trying to "convert" the population to Christianity.
The people have been, are and always will be Muslims.
It's the same if Muslims tried to convert Christians here, except we are more civilized and tell them to screw off instead of shooting them.

As far as health care goes, the Afghan Drs. can handle the care with help from us in the form of supplies.

I see no reason for Americans to be there except for our troops to kill as many of the Taliban as possible. The US Government needs to untie their hands and let them fight the war the way WWll was fought. If citizens get smoked......... You never heard of the American people during WWll protesting about civilian casualties. It's all the part of war.

Its not that simple. A counter-insurgency cannot be won in that fashion. We set the groundwork for a successful COIN campaign in Iraq, its odd to still hear people complaining even though it has worked for us before. Iraq would not be winding down right now had we continued with a conventional campaign.

That said, this incident was not about religion but the Taliban simply are trying to mold it for PR and recruitment purposes.

[daemon734]

Would it be to late for a flight of say 1,000 A-10C's roaming the countryside. I think we have around 320 in various configurations of the A-10 in inventory and maybe half of them operational but I'm guessing on that part of it. I never understood why we didn't have more of them. About a week of that and the survivors should all be in the same hole as Osama. Reduced to sticking their tongue out at us on video. Anybody with a gun or a bag of bombs and not in an allied uniform gets a rocket, a bomb or a 30MM enema.

If you saw the countryside and the spread of the population you would realize that something like this would only be a fraction of a percentage useful.

[old Grump]

If you saw the countryside and the spread of the population you would realize that something like this would only be a fraction of a percentage useful.
I know but considering the comparatively small number our government built asking for 6000 would be a little out of the question but I'm thinking not saturation but fly smart. Most of the country has bumpkus and isn't strategically important to anybody. I'm more familiar with Viet Nam and with our Western mountains but rough country everywhere has a lot of similarities. You need a spot to build a shelter, grow food, a road to travel to and fro on and you need water.

I look at the satellite map of my house and I can see my deerstand and my mule. Not so visible from the ground but stand out like a white magic marker line on the satellite photo is the path I take to get from my house to my back field rifle range. I even saw my small shooting bench. Even Magic Man Taliban can't hide all his tracks.

Besides I'm just pipe dreaming. the most we will get out of this is Obama wagging his finger and saying to the Taliban in a firm clear voice, "I do not approve." By the way welcome back I hadn't seen you post before today.

[swampdragon]

This was brought up in Sunday school this morning... they said only 6 of the 10 were actually American. The main reason they were executed was because they were Christians... They let the driver go though, because he stated he was muslim and could quote from the Koran, they let him go.

If the muzzies feel so strongly about allah and mohamed, I wonder what would have happened if one of the 10 in the group would have asked for leniency and be allowed to read the koran and possibly convert? These buggers are just looking for an excuse to kill and make a name for themselves... "believe as we do or we'll kill you"... my point is that I bet even if you asked for a chance to believe as they do, they would still kill you.

Mark, not to stir the pot...but we do the same thing.
We just go to other people's countries to do it.

[swampdragon]

Sad all the way around.

IIMO, Christians have no business trying to "convert" the population to Christianity.
The people have been, are and always will be Muslims.
It's the same if Muslims tried to convert Christians here, except we are more civilized and tell them to screw off instead of shooting them.

As far as health care goes, the Afghan Drs. can handle the care with help from us in the form of supplies.

I see no reason for Americans to be there except for our troops to kill as many of the Taliban as possible. The US Government needs to untie their hands and let them fight the war the way WWll was fought. If citizens get smoked......... You never heard of the American people during WWll protesting about civilian casualties. It's all the part of war.

Absolutely A-F*ckin' Plus Bro.
Finally....somebody actually gets it!

You cannot help those who are unwilling to help themselves...especially when their idea of "help" has nothing to do with converting to "your" line of thinking.
You are better off to either just leave completely...or kill everybody down to the last person.
You cannot just half-ass it and hope for the intended results.
It never works out.
Someday people will learn.

[HDR]

Mark, not to stir the pot...but we do the same thing.
We just go to other people's countries to do it.

I don't believe we've ever asked anyone to believe as we do.

Going there is much better than having it here. Its much wiser to fight in their house than ours.

[mriddick]

I don't believe we've ever asked anyone to believe as we do.

Going there is much better than having it here. Its much wiser to fight in their house than ours.

I would agree 100%, it's no where near SOP for us like it is for them...

[swampdragon]

I don't believe we've ever asked anyone to believe as we do.

Going there is much better than having it here. Its much wiser to fight in their house than ours.

Semantics.
The entire point of politics is to change the other guy's mind.
The entire point of war is to pick up where politics left off.
And when you combine politics with war and war with religion too, you end up with quite the mess.
Every single thing the U.S. does in other countries is geared toward bringing them around to our way of thinking.
When words fail, we use weapons.
I'm not saying this is necessarily bad.
I'm just admitting the truth.

They verbally state they want to attack us.
We verbally state that's a bad idea.
They physically do it anyways.
We physically kick their teeth in.
They verbally state, "Wow." "We should have listened to their line of thinking."

[slamfire51]

Semantics.
The entire point of politics is to change the other guy's mind.
The entire point of war is to pick up where politics left off.
And when you combine politics with war and war with religion too, you end up with quite the mess.
Every single thing the U.S. does in other countries is geared toward bringing them around to our way of thinking.
When words fail, we use weapons.
I'm not saying this is necessarily bad.
I'm just admitting the truth.

They verbally state they want to attack us.
We verbally state that's a bad idea.
They physically do it anyways.
We physically kick their teeth in.
They verbally state, "Wow." "We should have listened to their line of thinking."

I think you're wrong on the last sentence. They will never think that. If they had, there would be no war right now.
Some idiots don't learn from their mistakes.

[swampdragon]

I think you're wrong on the last sentence. They will never think that. If they had, there would be no war right now.
Some idiots don't learn from their mistakes.

Some are smarter than others.
Haven't heard much from Germany or Japan wanting to mess with us any more.
England either.

[slamfire51]

Some are smarter than others.
Haven't heard much from Germany or Japan wanting to mess with us any more.
England either.

I thought you were referring to the Middle Eastern idiots.

[swampdragon]

I thought you were referring to the Middle Eastern idiots.

I am in a sense.
And I agree with you that some folks are smarter than others.
That's why I previously stated that sometimes you just can't half-ass it.
You either have to forget the whole thing...or kill ALL of them and just be done with it.

[slamfire51]

I am in a sense.
And I agree with you that some folks are smarter than others.
That's why I previously stated that sometimes you just can't half-ass it.
You either have to forget the whole thing...or kill ALL of them and just be done with it.

I agree 100%.

[daemon734]

I know but considering the comparatively small number our government built asking for 6000 would be a little out of the question but I'm thinking not saturation but fly smart. Most of the country has bumpkus and isn't strategically important to anybody. I'm more familiar with Viet Nam and with our Western mountains but rough country everywhere has a lot of similarities. You need a spot to build a shelter, grow food, a road to travel to and fro on and you need water.

I look at the satellite map of my house and I can see my deerstand and my mule. Not so visible from the ground but stand out like a white magic marker line on the satellite photo is the path I take to get from my house to my back field rifle range. I even saw my small shooting bench. Even Magic Man Taliban can't hide all his tracks.

Besides I'm just pipe dreaming. the most we will get out of this is Obama wagging his finger and saying to the Taliban in a firm clear voice, "I do not approve." By the way welcome back I hadn't seen you post before today.

wasting millions of dollars on thousands of gun runs across a country this size with the tiny amount of benefit is just stupid. Afghanistan is a large country and very spread out, and attacking the civilian populace will only turn more of them against us. Like it or not, we can't kill everyone but will be forced to if we started a shock and awe campaign against everything living here.

The issue we have here is not military might. Its the concept of creating an environment where we can leave and have a stable, legitimate government we can trust in place. We can smoke afghani's all day long and the minute we leave we will be back to square one.

The same nonsense being said here was said about iraq during various stages of the war, yet the COIN campaign eventually won. One thing a lot of people don't understand about COIN and soft "hearts and minds" campaigns is that killing bad guys is still an essential part of the process.

[slamfire51]

wasting millions of dollars on thousands of gun runs across a country this size with the tiny amount of benefit is just stupid. Afghanistan is a large country and very spread out, and attacking the civilian populace will only turn more of them against us. Like it or not, we can't kill everyone but will be forced to if we started a shock and awe campaign against everything living here.

The issue we have here is not military might. Its the concept of creating an environment where we can leave and have a stable, legitimate government we can trust in place. We can smoke afghani's all day long and the minute we leave we will be back to square one.

The same nonsense being said here was said about iraq during various stages of the war, yet the COIN campaign eventually won. One thing a lot of people don't understand about COIN and soft "hearts and minds" campaigns is that killing bad guys is still an essential part of the process.

Yeah, just as soon as we pull out and stop aid to the country, the Taliban will retake the population simply because the Afghans aren't getting any handouts from us.
This country cannot continue to monetarily support other countries for the sake of winning hearts and minds. The hearts and minds of any country will go to whoever supplies the most incentives.

[nfa1934]

daemon, have you read Learning to Eat Soup With a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons from Malaysia and Vietnam? I think you might like it. The author, John Nagl, had a lot of input into the Army Counterinsurgency Field Manual and influenced some of GEN Petraeus' ideas. I knew him when I was at FT Riley (he was MAJ Nagl then, made LTC before getting out and is Dr. Nagl now), he remembered me when I ran into him in Kabul in 2008 (kept calling me CPT even though I was back in a Navy uniform).

[swampdragon]

Yeah, just as soon as we pull out and stop aid to the country, the Taliban will retake the population simply because the Afghans aren't getting any handouts from us.
This country cannot continue to monetarily support other countries for the sake of winning hearts and minds. The hearts and minds of any country will go to whoever supplies the most incentives.

Hate to say it, but you're right.

We've been messin' around with this for 9 years now.

[Cypher]

Wasn't it established that they were not there as missionaries but as social aid.


I hear ya... BUT! Christians don't have a choice... in the Bible, its called "The Great Commission"... to spread the gospel to the 4 corners of the earth.

Why?

God told man to spread out and multiply and to inhabit the earth... When man congregated in one region and built the tower of babel against God's will... God confused man by giving him many languages thus forcing man to spread out...

So, man did... man spread to the 4 corners of the earth... so its up to us to reach man.

Yeah but that doesn't mean shove it down someones throat if they don't want it, you can present the truth and if someone wants it and chooses it then that's great but if they don't then that's their choice and pushing it on them only makes them more angry. We all will answer to God for our choices.

I think the problem is some Christian think that means forcing it on people even if they don't want anything to do with it.

[slamfire51]

Wasn't it established that they were not there as missionaries but as social aid.



Yeah but that doesn't mean shove it down someones throat if they don't want it, you can present the truth and if someone wants it and chooses it then that's great but if they don't then that's their choice and pushing it on them only makes them more angry. We all will answer to God for our choices.

I think the problem is some Christian think that means forcing it on people even if they don't want anything to do with it.

This applies to the work place as well. I worked in a factory setting up production machinery for years. In that particular plant, the production workers were allowed to stay at the machine until I finished. There were 2 or 3 workers that were religious fanatics and constantly preaching and telling me I was going to burn in Hell if I didn't attend their church and accept the word of Christ. This really bugged the crap out of me, and went to management for help. Management laid down the law that nothing religious be discussed while we were on the clock.
The nut cases didn't realize I had been baptized years before.

You can't push anything on anyone and succeed in your cause.

[mriddick]

Outside of harassment freedom of speech is just that, IMO if someone is allowed to talk of what they do all weekend then that should extend to all activities, the company should not be able to pick and choose what topic is brought up. I guess I'm lucky at work as no one here seems to discuss religion at all and even if they did I got the freedom to walk away as I see fit.

[Full Otto]

Wasn't it established that they were not there as missionaries but as social aid.



Yeah but that doesn't mean shove it down someones throat if they don't want it, you can present the truth and if someone wants it and chooses it then that's great but if they don't then that's their choice and pushing it on them only makes them more angry. We all will answer to God for our choices.

I think the problem is some Christian think that means forcing it on people even if they don't want anything to do with it.

Something tells me that there was "one" that decided to do it his own way and probably stowed a bible or something on the sly and got the rest of them killed. Classic scenerio

[mriddick]

Something tells me that there was "one" that decided to do it his own way and probably stowed a bible or something on the sly and got the rest of them killed. Classic scenerio

Just how like we do to muslims traveling in America...oh wait never mind...

Wasn't one doing this for 30 years? I think what they did was admirable although I wouldn't want our troops risking life and limb to rescue (or recover) them. In the end I think we need to remember what got them killed was islamic terrorist.

[daemon734]

Hate to say it, but you're right.

We've been messin' around with this for 9 years now.

You are right, we have been messing around with afghanistan for 9 years, and now for once it is our primary focus. Ten minutes into the surge and everybody is ready to throw in the towel. We have had static ops in this country for years and only now do we have the ability to go on the offensive thanks to Iraq deciding that our COIN ops were working. We are finally taking over for the coalition troops who view Afghanistan as more of a PR campaign than an actual military one.

It just baffles me to see how short term everyone's memory is, especially considering the exact same situation we had in Iraq ended up with a positive outcome.

[slamfire51]

It just baffles me to see how short term everyone's memory is, especially considering the exact same situation we had in Iraq ended up with a positive outcome.

Time will tell on that.

[daemon734]

Time will tell on that.

How much time do you need? We have a stable government, a SOFA agreement, and troops drawn down to half the amount they were in previous years without issue. That was the extent of our goals in Iraq and they have been met. We are going on three years of this already.

Its almost as if you want defeat just to point fingers.

[slamfire51]

How much time do you need? We have a stable government, a SOFA agreement, and troops drawn down to half the amount they were in previous years without issue. That was the extent of our goals in Iraq and they have been met. We are going on three years of this already.

Its almost as if you want defeat just to point fingers.


You're wrong assuming what I meant.
Give it 5-10 yrs., and we'll see if it stays stable.

[daemon734]

You're wrong assuming what I meant.
Give it 5-10 yrs., and we'll see if it stays stable.

Well the concepts we employed in the counter insurgency there have worked for the past 3 years at least, resulting in an end to the large scale hostilities, our goals being met, and the stabilization of the country as a whole. I'm not understanding how you guys are slamming them in Afghanistan now. Or are you going to be blasting the war until 2020 when you have satisfied your requirements?

The Iraq war is over. Troops are drawing down and moving into a Korea/Germany type of basing which is an excellent strategic foothold in the middle east for us, the same way Germany was our foothold in Europe during the cold war. If you want us out of Afghanistan so bad who would you prefer we hand it to? The fundamentalist Taliban who enabled 9/11 or the ever-so-friendly Iranian government who just so happens to share the western border? Our would you prefer an equal split?

I heard this same bullshit at the beginning of the troop surge in Iraq. "It wont work", "too much money/time", etc. Then when it all was a complete success nobody is willing to acknowledge it and just moves on to Afghanistan with the EXACT same diatribe.

[slamfire51]

Well the concepts we employed in the counter insurgency there have worked for the past 3 years at least, resulting in an end to the large scale hostilities, our goals being met, and the stabilization of the country as a whole. I'm not understanding how you guys are slamming them in Afghanistan now. Or are you going to be blasting the war until 2020 when you have satisfied your requirements?

The Iraq war is over. Troops are drawing down and moving into a Korea/Germany type of basing which is an excellent strategic foothold in the middle east for us, the same way Germany was our foothold in Europe during the cold war. If you want us out of Afghanistan so bad who would you prefer we hand it to? The fundamentalist Taliban who enabled 9/11 or the ever-so-friendly Iranian government who just so happens to share the western border? Our would you prefer an equal split?

I heard this same bullshit at the beginning of the troop surge in Iraq. "It wont work", "too much money/time", etc. Then when it all was a complete success nobody is willing to acknowledge it and just moves on to Afghanistan with the EXACT same diatribe.

Daemon,
I am now slamming anyone, especially our troops fighting there. I am grateful they are there. I know you have been there and I thank you for serving our country.
All I am saying is you, me and everyone else know how unpredictable the Middle East is and it always will be.
That is why I am saying the future will show whether I am right or wrong.

[daemon734]

Daemon,
I am now slamming anyone, especially our troops fighting there. I am grateful they are there. I know you have been there and I thank you for serving our country.
All I am saying is you, me and everyone else know how unpredictable the Middle East is and it always will be.
That is why I am saying the future will show whether I am right or wrong.

That unpredicability is exactly why we need to be here. Unfortunately this place holds the key to the stability of the entire planet. Until that changes we will always have to be have our foot stuck right in their asses. If we dont I guarantee we will just get the repititous attacks of the 1990's and 2001 all over again.

If you want us out of Afghanistan you are just asking for us to be put on the fast track to a larger war.

[Full Otto]

Just how like we do to muslims traveling in America...oh wait never mind...

Wasn't one doing this for 30 years? I think what they did was admirable although I wouldn't want our troops risking life and limb to rescue (or recover) them. In the end I think we need to remember what got them killed was islamic terrorist.

Yeah that's the guy I mentioned earlier. His father was an eye surgeon and wanted him to become one too. As I understand it he wanted to try for the ministry that's where he met the pastor I mentioned. He opted out of that and went on to be a surgeon.
I get the feeling even though he had strong beliefs he also knew to demonstrate them through actions rather, as others have said, trying to pound it into people.
I'd say he was really just being himself with that as just a facet of being and not deliberately evangelizing with some tactic. I have respect for that as well and he seemed to be an example of, to me at least, the real message of the Bible. I just suspect that someone or some organization tried riding the coat tails of his success with their own agenda and FUBAR'd it up.
I agree that help's nothing and no way we need to add more to what troops have to put up with by being reckless.
Waste all the way around
I think I'm on the same page here, maybe I'm coming across wrong.

[swampdragon]

How much time do you need? We have a stable government, a SOFA agreement, and troops drawn down to half the amount they were in previous years without issue. That was the extent of our goals in Iraq and they have been met. We are going on three years of this already.

Its almost as if you want defeat just to point fingers.

Daemon,
I think you are misunderstanding what's being said.
Nobody is trying to point a finger at defeat.
And whatever you do, don't think people don't support the troops either...because they do.
All that's being said is that our "goals" are not going to change things long term.

Alexander the Great, Arab Muslims, Genghis Khan & Timur Lung (Mongols), British India, the USSR and now us...have all tried to fight in Afghanistan and change things there.
With the exception of Islam now being the most dominant religion there, not a whole lot else has changed.
Afghanistan always just goes back to being Afghanistan after the invaders leave.

[slamfire51]

Daemon,
I think you are misunderstanding what's being said.
Nobody is trying to point a finger at defeat.
And whatever you do, don't think people don't support the troops either...because they do.
All that's being said is that our "goals" are not going to change things long term.

Alexander the Great, Arab Muslims, Genghis Khan & Timur Lung (Mongols), British India, the USSR and now us...have all tried to fight in Afghanistan a change things there.
With the exception of Islam now being the most dominant religion there, not a whole lot else has changed.
Afghanistan always just goes back to being Afghanistan after the invaders leave.

Exactly.

[Uncle Scary]

Nope... we need to start playing by "cowboy" rules!

Are those rules different than "Rogue Cop who's a loner but gets stuck with a by-the-book partner" rules?

[daemon734]

Daemon,
I think you are misunderstanding what's being said.
Nobody is trying to point a finger at defeat.
And whatever you do, don't think people don't support the troops either...because they do.
All that's being said is that our "goals" are not going to change things long term.

Alexander the Great, Arab Muslims, Genghis Khan & Timur Lung (Mongols), British India, the USSR and now us...have all tried to fight in Afghanistan and change things there.
With the exception of Islam now being the most dominant religion there, not a whole lot else has changed.
Afghanistan always just goes back to being Afghanistan after the invaders leave.

That is exactly the defeatist attitude I have been mentioning.

Im tired of hearing how unsuccessful everyone has been at conquering afghanistan, when it actually has been under the rule of another country for its entire existence. Even so, im not sure that we should be basing our national security on the effects of Alexander the great or the mongols' military campaigns thousands of years ago. Speaking of the greeks and mongols and their supposed "defeats", did you know that there are entire provinces here filled with the ancestors of those greeks and mongols who supposedly got their asses handed to them? They represent about 3/5 of the entire population. That sure sounds to me like they held enough ground to have assimilated into the country instead of being forced out.

These are the the same lines we heard about Iraq..."as soon as we leave it will crumble"...or "assoon as we stop paying them they will fight us again"...

Its been almost three years since SOFA and no combat operations have happened in the Iraqi cities since then. We switched funding for reconstruction to Iraqi sources about the same time, with the same results. There seems to be some serious misconceptions about what is going on in both theaters, or maybe you all just stoped paying attention a couple years ago but still think you are "in the loop".

[swampdragon]

That is exactly the defeatist attitude I have been mentioning.

Im tired of hearing how unsuccessful everyone has been at conquering afghanistan, when it actually has been under the rule of another country for its entire existence. Even so, im not sure that we should be basing our national security on the effects of Alexander the great or the mongols' military campaigns thousands of years ago. Speaking of the greeks and mongols and their supposed "defeats", did you know that there are entire provinces here filled with the ancestors of those greeks and mongols who supposedly got their asses handed to them? They represent about 3/5 of the entire population. That sure sounds to me like they held enough ground to have assimilated into the country instead of being forced out.

These are the the same lines we heard about Iraq..."as soon as we leave it will crumble"...or "assoon as we stop paying them they will fight us again"...

Its been almost three years since SOFA and no combat operations have happened in the Iraqi cities since then. We switched funding for reconstruction to Iraqi sources about the same time, with the same results. There seems to be some serious misconceptions about what is going on in both theaters, or maybe you all just stoped paying attention a couple years ago but still think you are "in the loop".

Bombs are still going off in Iraq too.
Just sayin'
I'm still in the loop.

[chiak47]

Our nation is broke and maybe we should invest the money here instead of taking liberty to some nation that has struggled to accept it for 10 years. :gruebel:

[Mark Ducati]

Gotta love the urban dictionary:


nanawati

Nanawati is an afghan word. If someone says this word, the person (religous afghan) that hears it has the obligation to treat him well, with hospitality even if he is an enemy. It is 1 of the 3 basic religous beliefs of an afghan. So if you go to Afghanistan remeber this word!!

American soldier: please dont shoot me!
Afghan soldier: I will blow up your head!
American soldier: No, please! NANAWATI!
Afghan soldier: shit!! ok I will not kill you, you can come home with me.

[Full Otto]

I wonder if that's where this expression comes from
http://i35.tinypic.com/2nt8xe8.jpg

[daemon734]

Bombs are still going off in Iraq too.
Just sayin'
I'm still in the loop.

Bombs go off in the US all the time too. Some you know of others that you will never hear about. Does that mean we are about to fall?

US troops are doing two things over there, jack and shit. Oh, and one other...cleaning gear to send it to us in Afghanistan. 140K troops during the surge and we are pushing 70K now without incident, and steadily dropping.

Maybe you need to make your expectations a little more realistic, using the minute amount of activity in Iraq as justification for saying that our campaign there did not work is stretching it greatly.

[daemon734]

Our nation is broke and maybe we should invest the money here instead of taking liberty to some nation that has struggled to accept it for 10 years. :gruebel:

Interesting, once again the short term memory loss is vividly apparent. Do you somehow think another 9/11 style attack will benefit our economy? in case you were stuck in a hole around the beginning of the decade we didn't go there to "give them liberty". Liberty is only a side-effect in this campaign, and a secondary objective.

Everyone wants to call for us to leave but nobody has answered the question I posed earlier. Should we hand the country over to Iran or the Taliban and fundamentalist Pakistan? Or should it be an even divide? I guarantee you that both are beating on the door right now.

[chiak47]

Interesting, once again the short term memory loss is vividly apparent.
What is vividly apparent is your blinders.



Do you somehow think another 9/11 style attack will benefit our economy?

Who really benefited from 9/11....Think hard about that.



in case you were stuck in a hole around the beginning of the decade we didn't go there to "give them liberty". Liberty is only a side-effect in this campaign, and a secondary objective.

Once the coalition pulls out then best believe that all that hard work you folks are doing with this nations tax money will be for nothing; millions of people work bone hard to field that military.
FWIW...The military industrial complex is hungry but the hand that feeds it is broke.




Everyone wants to call for us to leave but nobody has answered the question I posed earlier. Should we hand the country over to Iran or the Taliban and fundamentalist Pakistan? Or should it be an even divide? I guarantee you that both are beating on the door right now.

What will change once we leave or is this going to be an infinity campaign to clear them of there backwards mentality?
Think about it...This is not a ideology that sprung up 10 years ago...This is an ideology that has been instilled deeply into these peoples minds for 1000's of years.
Do you truly believe that 10 years of grab ass touch football will change the way shit is done over there?
Reagan said it best when stated (paraphrase) that you can not deal with those people in the middle east.

[LAGC]

Interesting, once again the short term memory loss is vividly apparent. Do you somehow think another 9/11 style attack will benefit our economy? in case you were stuck in a hole around the beginning of the decade we didn't go there to "give them liberty". Liberty is only a side-effect in this campaign, and a secondary objective.

Oh come on, do you really think they'd be able to pull off another terrorist attack on the scale of 9-11 again with all the security precautions this nation has underwent since then? Hijacking planes was a one-trick pony, with the locked cabins all the airlines have installed now, they will never get away with that again. What's left? Truck bombs? Subway bombs? I say let them sit in their caves and plot all they want. Good luck getting into this country with all the beefed up protections and terrorist watch lists going on.

When are we going to realize our foreign policy is the reason we were attacked in the first place? Why don't we stop propping up Israel, withdraw our military from the Middle East, and hope they have short memories and can forgive us for violating their sovereignty and interfering in their affairs?


Everyone wants to call for us to leave but nobody has answered the question I posed earlier. Should we hand the country over to Iran or the Taliban and fundamentalist Pakistan? Or should it be an even divide? I guarantee you that both are beating on the door right now.

I think a Taliban resurgence is all but inevitable at this point, unless the military plans on staying there for 50 years like McCain suggested. And even then might not be long enough at the rate its going.

[swampdragon]

Bombs go off in the US all the time too.

Really?
Hmmmm.
You'd think that would be in the news every day.

Guess I'm reading all the wrong papers or watching all the wrong channels.

[Roaring Mouse]

Really?
Hmmmm.
You'd think that would be in the news every day.

Jeez, didn't you realise that the liberal media have conspired to conceal this "fact" from us?

[swampdragon]

Jeez, didn't you realise that the liberal media have conspired to conceal this "fact" from us?

Dammit!
I should have.
lol...

[slamfire51]

You can look at the U.S. in the Middle East the same as if China was here to stop anti-Communism factions.
Would you, being a Patriot, change your way of thinking towards the Chinese?
Hell no, you'd fight tooth and nail to stop them. This thinking has been instilled in us for over 200 yrs.
The Middle Eastern population has had thousands of years to stick to their resolve, and will continue to do so for thousands more.

[DesertDawg]

I really dont give a fuk about the politics or our involvement in the ME...I honestly dont give a fuk about the resolve, or plans on pulling out.

We need to either, start fighting like we did in the beginning, or just come the fuk home...

[LAGC]

They could just stroll across the open southern border, you dumb shit...

Then why haven't they? Why haven't we seen truck bombings and subway bombings and anthrax attacks all over the nation by now? Have some faith in our intelligence services. Even the 9-11 hijackers were known to intelligence before it happened. Bush was advised of the plot, but ignored the report. Indeed, it benefited Bush much more by LETTING the 9-11 attacks happen than it did by preventing them. Bush's approval rating was over 90% for several months right after 9-11. Democrats supported him in droves and he got his warmongering agenda passed without hardly a fuss. Our civil liberties have suffered the most, with the passage of the PATRIOT Act and such, and endless detention without trial for suspects.

If we really wanted to prevent future terrorist attacks, we'd quit giving them reasons to want to attack us in the first place. Invading their lands and trying to dictate our values at gun-point isn't winning many hearts and minds. Change in that region has got to come from within. We should support dissident groups and foment revolution from within, instead of trying to impose our values from above.

[swampdragon]

I really dont give a fuk about the politics or our involvement in the ME...I honestly dont give a fuk about the resolve, or plans on pulling out.

We need to either, start fighting like we did in the beginning, or just come the fuk home...

Exactly. And that's all I've been trying to say this whole time.
But, I guess I'm the bad guy here for saying so....

[Meatball]

Then why haven't they? Why haven't we seen truck bombings and subway bombings and anthrax attacks all over the nation by now? Have some faith in our intelligence services.
Don't worry, they're going to try soon enough...

[daemon734]

What will change once we leave or is this going to be an infinity campaign to clear them of there backwards mentality?
Think about it...This is not a ideology that sprung up 10 years ago...This is an ideology that has been instilled deeply into these peoples minds for 1000's of years.
Do you truly believe that 10 years of grab ass touch football will change the way shit is done over there?
Reagan said it best when stated (paraphrase) that you can not deal with those people in the middle east.

Thank you for educating me on the people I deal with daily, and on the true facts of the war im currently in the middle of. Who would have thought you know so much more about it than I do?

I personally watched Iraq make a fucking 180 right in front of my eyes, but apparantly it wasn't enough to convince the peanut gallery here. While we are on the topic of talking heads with no solid idea of what the fuck they are talking about, "leaving the middle east alone" was what got us into the situation we were in pre-9/11....a giant fucking target. Personally, going the same route and putting your heads under the covers while desperately clinging to outdated misinformation as your security blanket is not the answer.

We have the same situation here we had in iraq, conventional conflict is over and into a full blown insurgency against the active government. Who should we resume the conventional conflict against? Shadows and noises? Or the general population who we need to secure this country? All throughout the COIN campaign in iraq I was told by the sage geniuses on this website that I was fighting a war with one hand tied behind my back, yet I never saw it at all. My machine gun never noticed your wisdom either. Now we are back on the same mantra with Afghanistan with living room quarterbacks stateside trying to insist to me the same is happening here, even though yet again......I see nothing on my end balls deep into the fight.

I guess I must have my "blinders" on when i'm out on mission....

This website goes down for a while and everyone turns into a bunch of kansas city faggots crying about a war we did not start, and one that they personally have nothing invested in aside from a fractional percentage of their taxed income.

Sickening.

[daemon734]

Really?
Hmmmm.
You'd think that would be in the news every day.

Guess I'm reading all the wrong papers or watching all the wrong channels.

Try checking out the EOD resources on SIPR. you would be surprised at what goes on stateside that you have no clue about.

[chiak47]

Thank you for educating me on the people I deal with daily, and on the true facts of the war im currently in the middle of.


I deal with Americans everyday and the general consensus here is that we are on the verge of collapse.
Yep, the very country that you have sworn to defend is broke and crumbling but I'm sure the Iraqi's and Afghan's will help bail us out when the call is shouted.

[swampdragon]

Try checking out the EOD resources on SIPR. you would be surprised at what goes on stateside that you have no clue about.

Uh yeah OK. As a civilian now, I'll just log right on there and check it all out.....lol
The "S" in SIPR does stand for secret you know?
All I see here is you offering proof that nobody can see.
Meanwhile, I don't see bombs and IEDs going off in America like I do in Iraq still.
The hearts and minds thing will never work in that part of the world.

[chiak47]

Uh yeah OK. As a civilian now, I'll just log right on there and check it all out.....lol


Use your damn decoder ring or check wikileaks daily...:yeah:

[swampdragon]

Use your damn decoder ring or check wikileaks daily...:yeah:

You know I had never even heard of Wikileaks until this lil fuckstick did what he did.

[Uncle Scary]

Oh come on, do you really think they'd be able to pull off another terrorist attack on the scale of 9-11 again with all the security precautions this nation has underwent since then?

A couple of years ago, undercover NTSB agents smuggled an inert dissasembled bomb onto a plane at the Tampa airport. This was a test of the baggage screeners, and it appears they failed miserably. I'm sure that Al Qaeda was paying attention. If we haven't been hit with another 9/11 style attack, maybe we've just been lucky.

[swampdragon]

A couple of years ago, undercover NTSB agents smuggled an inert dissasembled bomb onto a plane at the Tampa airport. This was a test of the baggage screeners, and it appears they failed miserably. I'm sure that Al Qaeda was paying attention. If we haven't been hit with another 9/11 style attack, maybe we've just been lucky.

...Or maybe there have been hundreds of explosions here in the USA that we don't know about...lol.

[daemon734]

Uh yeah OK. As a civilian now, I'll just log right on there and check it all out.....lol
The "S" in SIPR does stand for secret you know?
All I see here is you offering proof that nobody can see.
Meanwhile, I don't see bombs and IEDs going off in America like I do in Iraq still.
The hearts and minds thing will never work in that part of the world.


Then maybe you should have used the clue I included in the first post when I said that you dont know about a lot of them instead of wondering why you dont see it on CNN.

Please show me all these bombs that are going off all over the place in iraq. That is a serious request, not rhetorical. My dad is there right now along with my old unit and from talking to them not a fucking thing is going on. The sigacts I regularly read say the same thing. Also, whenever something does happen, as it always will, the iraqis successfully deal with it themselves, which was one of our major goals.

Again, you don't really seem to have a firm grasp on what is happening over here, as you obviously don't know much about "this part of the world".

[daemon734]

...Or maybe there have been hundreds of explosions here in the USA that we don't know about...lol.

People in the US get caught with explosives all the time, its part of my job to hear about this. Also, please keep your exxagerations to a minimum, because nobody said anything at all about hundreds of explosions. Before I deployed I spent quite a lot of time with the TSA BAO's doing joint training and if you think the airports are safe you are fucking crazy. Just take my word on this, it isn't really your lane. But if you feel content with how things are going and think we dont need to be in Afghanistan or that the US is safe and secure....just have a seat and hold it inside because people that know a lot more about the situation than you do feel differently.

[daemon734]

I deal with Americans everyday and the general consensus here is that we are on the verge of collapse.
Yep, the very country that you have sworn to defend is broke and crumbling but I'm sure the Iraqi's and Afghan's will help bail us out when the call is shouted.

So what does this have to do with you making claims about people you know nothing about?

I was just in the states not so long ago and I didnt really see the whole "imminent collapse" thing, but if being overly dramatic is part of your act then so be it. I would hate to see how our economy would do if presented with another large terror attack combined with killing off the war industry? But I get it, you are no strategist, you are just having hard times and somehow think that withdrawing from Afghanistan will somehow get you a job as a welder in wisconsin. I will tell you this, man-tech and AMC are needing welders in a big way in afghanistan right now, so maybe if you got on board your current argument would change and not seem so ridiculous.

[chiak47]

you are just having hard times and somehow think that withdrawing from Afghanistan will somehow get you a job as a welder in wisconsin.

I am working...From 1pm to 1am m-f. I'm erecting wind towers that are subsidized by the US gov cause electric companies know they are junk science and they are not investing their own dough to these projects.
So in a sense, I get my check signed by the same person you do..
Am I surprised? No...Is there anyone here that is not reliant on a .gov check?



I was just in the states not so long ago and I didnt really see the whole "imminent collapse" thing

Wait.... what? Well, I suppose everyone has a check on a post.

But nonetheless I'm curious...
Have you not read the headlines concerning our GDP to debt ratio?
Maybe you need a powerpoint presentation complete with pictures to understand how dire our economic situation here in the states is?

Just curious...Who is paying for those welding projects in afghanistan?

And...
Just admit that you have no clue as to what the fuck is going on in the world with your rosy fucking glasses on..

The world according to Daemon...:crazy:
* Iraq will prevail with free democracy long after the US and the $$$ leaves.
* Afghanistan loves us now and her people will love us long after we withdrawal and the flow of American money dries up.
* America will be able to turn the $13,000,000,000,000 we have in debt into pure gold with just a stroke of a pen.

You call me a defeatist...I call myself a realist.

[swampdragon]

Then maybe you should have used the clue I included in the first post when I said that you dont know about a lot of them instead of wondering why you dont see it on CNN.

Please show me all these bombs that are going off all over the place in iraq. That is a serious request, not rhetorical. My dad is there right now along with my old unit and from talking to them not a fucking thing is going on. The sigacts I regularly read say the same thing. Also, whenever something does happen, as it always will, the iraqis successfully deal with it themselves, which was one of our major goals.

Again, you don't really seem to have a firm grasp on what is happening over here, as you obviously don't know much about "this part of the world".

Well hell Daemon, this was just today. The same day as your post.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/7155375.html

For that matter, here's a whole list of stuff...which is not all inclusive by any means.
http://politifi.com/news/Scores-killed-and-wounded-in-Iraq-explosion-1194721.html

The sad part is that I'm not even there, yet "my" grasp on what's going on seems to be better than yours.
That's scary.

[El Jefe]

You know I had never even heard of Wikileaks until this lil fuckstick did what he did.

Nor had I. But I do know what they need to do with the two little gay fucks responsible for this crap.

:hungio8:

[swampdragon]

People in the US get caught with explosives all the time, its part of my job to hear about this. Also, please keep your exxagerations to a minimum, because nobody said anything at all about hundreds of explosions. Before I deployed I spent quite a lot of time with the TSA BAO's doing joint training and if you think the airports are safe you are fucking crazy. Just take my word on this, it isn't really your lane. But if you feel content with how things are going and think we dont need to be in Afghanistan or that the US is safe and secure....just have a seat and hold it inside because people that know a lot more about the situation than you do feel differently.

Nobody said airports are safe Daemon.
You said explosions happen in America all the time.
I said you're full of crap.
And I'm right.

[daemon734]

Well hell Daemon, this was just today. The same day as your post.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/7155375.html

For that matter, here's a whole list of stuff...which is not all inclusive by any means.
http://politifi.com/news/Scores-killed-and-wounded-in-Iraq-explosion-1194721.html

The sad part is that I'm not even there, yet "my" grasp on what's going on seems to be better than yours.
That's scary.

"A whole list of stuff"? Did you actually read the second article you posted? They are talking about the same blast. There is at most 2 blasts being spoken of, a suicide bomber west of Baghdad and about 4 links on the Basra marketplace blast. Just because they link the same story with different articles doesn't mean they are separate incidents, in case you didn't know.

One of them was an industrial explosion that had nothing to do with terrorism. Nice try though.

As far as the first article, all I have to say is that once I read it I immediately started running in circles yelling "oh noes!!" Sectarian bickering and partisan politics are so completely foreign to me I don't even know how to properly address it. Honestly, just the fact that you cite this as reasoning for their government's imminent collapse made me openly laugh in the MWR tent (which is where we look at computers for you guys that have never deployed before, swampy).

Do you have any idea how many bombs were going off in that country previously? And you also do realize that these bombs are their problem right? They actually handle them on their own.

[daemon734]

Nobody said airports are safe Daemon.
You said explosions happen in America all the time.
I said you're full of crap.
And I'm right.

Speaking of being full of crap, you really do not have any idea how to take any of this info into perspective, which is a by-product of dodging deployments. I'm sure it seems real scary to you seeing as how you have no baseline to compare with. Why don't you go ahead and take a look at overall sigacts for the past two years vs the three prior to that....although you wont find that on CNN which seems to be your only resource.

The next time you call me full of shit we will get into uncle swampy's stories of killing serb sentries in hand-to-hand combat as an army generator repairman and maybe we can learn another lesson on perspective.

[daemon734]

The world according to Daemon...:crazy:
* Iraq will prevail with free democracy long after the US and the $$$ leaves.
The US isn't leaving in the sense that you imply, but the free money and combat power pretty much has as they are self reliant on both now.

* Afghanistan loves us now and her people will love us long after we withdrawal and the flow of American money dries up.
Now please go ahead and show me where this was said ANYWHERE or does that conflict with your attempt at creating drama?

* America will be able to turn the $13,000,000,000,000 we have in debt into pure gold with just a stroke of a pen.
That has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but again, kudos for the drama. National security is a seperate issue from economics.

You call me a defeatist...I call myself a realist.

In order to be a true realist you have to have an actual idea of the truth and scope of what is going on, something that is kind of hard to do from your basement. Truther websites don't count towards that either, BTW.

Anytime I read your posts I feel almost obligated to apologize for having job security and maintaining steady employment for the past 15 years. Then I remember that its your choice to wallow in shit and cry about the government's inability to create a job that meets your criteria and 90% of what you blame it on has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[swampdragon]

I saw this on the news. That eye doctor had been providing eye care in Afghanistan for 30 years. Filthy savages!

If ya don't want to get killed, then don't go to a war zone I guess.
It's true that it sucks when people trying to do a good thing get killed anyways.
But, on the other hand, if the guy had 30 years worth of experience there, ya'd think he would have made a wiser choice.
I'm not condoning what happened.
I'm just pointing out the obvious.

It's no different when journalists volunteer to go to war zones so they can get the "Big Story" and make a name for themselves.
Then the media whines and cries about how horrible, unexpected and tragic it was when the reporter gets his ass shot off.
Why they act all surprised is beyond me.

[chiak47]

That has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but again, kudos for the drama. National security is a seperate issue from economics.

Maybe it's my thinking but I believe economics and national security go hand in hand in a capitalist nation. I know..Call me crazy or a kook...
If a economic collapse were to happen then do you believe the people within this nation will continue on with lattes and cinnamon buns?
Some of these fucks riot over a ball game..What do you think will happen if they became hungry cause our dollar is worth squat?


In order to be a true realist you have to have an actual idea of the truth and scope of what is going on, something that is kind of hard to do from your basement. Truther websites don't count towards that either, BTW.
Wow your really a moron in the worst possible way.
Wait...what? basement...really? seriously?
It's cool how you try to slam guys in a incognito sort of way when you have no valid debate points. :thumbsup:
Nobody said shit when you were a broke ass bartender living in a fucking ghetto while your weapons got stolen out of your house a few years before you were accepted into the role your in now.
Point is...Police your own fucking house before you worry bout mine or others.




Anytime I read your posts I feel almost obligated to apologize for having job security and maintaining steady employment for the past 15 years. Then I remember that its your choice to wallow in shit and cry about the government's inability to create a job that meets your criteria and 90% of what you blame it on has absolutely nothing to do with it.

WTF are you on?

You know nothing about me but since you so love to blast a guy while he is down...
I was laid off twice last year from the same company that I have been with since my apprenticeship was up and I burnt through thousands out of my savings account and I still had money for pretty much what I wanted.

To sum it up...
I make around $30 an hour at 60 hours a week. I pay about 1/4 of my check to taxes plus another $5,000 or so in property taxes a year.
Remember this while your collecting your fucking EIC this year... I like millions of others send them a check; so don't talk to me about fucking working steady for 15 years. You know your in the big league's when you write them a check.

In all reality....I can't wait to read deamons annual January earned income credit "just bought" photo thread...
Remember...EIC=welfare motherfucker. Get yours.

FWIW...
Government has no role in "creating" jobs. In fact the less role it takes the more jobs are created. The less role government takes in ANYTHING is better for free markets. The military industrial complex has brainwashed you to the point of ridiculous.

As far as crying...
If anything I cry for the government to stop spending money they don't have and let the free market and society do as they please. I also cry for the government to stop meddling in every other nations problems.

But...But...They will bomb us with nukes and chem weapons if we take a isolationist stance...
Really? Iceland leaves fuckers alone and nobody fucks with them...Same with dozens of other nations. Do you enjoy policing the world?

As far as me "wallowing"....
I too have been steady employed till the government you so steady defend decided to stick it's thumb in the eye of private enterprise. I'm an Ironworker and all the halls throughout the country have most of there men laid off due to the banks "vacuuming" the money in...It happens when there is deflation.
No loan's for projects means no work for workers. It's pretty simple.
Bush started it and Obama is running it home.

[daemon734]

Waaahhh..

So you are in the "big leagues" now? :laughingtohard: That's great to know. Too bad you picked a trade that apparently cannot support you and your brood steadily, but I guess your inflexibility is still somebody else's fault as well. As far as me paying money to the government, I hate to say it but a my income is tax free right now, and around 1/4 of it is when i'm not deployed. So I guess I don't meet your criteria for "the big leagues", but I do pretty good for myself. I can say i have never been fired or laid off, and never really been in financial duress. I'm kinda proud of it a little, you know, because a lot of it was due to being flexible and easily adapting to problems.

And I guess your version of "kicking somebody while they are down" is pointing out that the entire time they wallow in online pity about their poor life decisions and inability to find work THEY ARE POSTING ON GUNSNET DURING THE ENTIRE WORK DAY. Sorry bud.

But, I digress, this is all an unrelated tangent. I'm still waiting for more of your vast and sage knowledge on the local populace here, and some of your wonderful insight into our national security, you know, since you have it all figured out and all.

Maybe I can IM you for some financial advice too daddy warbucks. :laugh:


Bottom line, i'm looking for one of you awesome internet quarterbacks to figure out a few things for me.

-How to conduct a conventional campaign against an entity with no conventional army?
-Why we should rethink said counter-insurgency campaign when the largest COIN operation that has ever been undertaken in the history of this planet was just successfully negotiated using the same tactics?
-Who we should allow to take control of Afghanistan after the proposed ditching? Iran or the Taliban?


Please brainstorm and then get back to me. I'm tired of all the nonsense and rhetoric. Some of you geniuses need to step up and win this war for us.

[chiak47]

Too bad you picked a trade that apparently cannot support you and your brood steadily

What was I thinking? Here I was under the impression that America loved skyscrapers, electric plants and such. But hell; tax the shit out of private enterprise to pay for bunk ass wars and let America collapse.

It's good to go as long as Iraq has new schools.


but I guess your inflexibility is still somebody else's fault as well.
Maybe I should ride the back of a war and depend on that for a steady check. Hell if my whole fucking family depended on the military industrial complex for checks than I would be all for this country going broke also.



and never really been in financial duress.

I guess living in a ghetto and getting all your weapons jacked was SOP for you...Got it tough guy.
I really can't wait for your annual EIC picture thread in January.

[chiak47]

...

[daemon734]

What was I thinking? Here I was under the impression that America loved skyscrapers, electric plants and such. But hell; tax the shit out of private enterprise to pay for bunk ass wars and let America collapse.

It's good to go as long as Iraq has new schools.

So what's really being said is that you made life choices that keep you inflexible and unable to adapt to change, and it somebody else's fault. Actually, your trade is in decent demand, but I guess your refusal to move out of the middle of nowhere to utilize it is the fault of someone else as well, you know, the government should make the jobs come to you. or maybe its just that your prospective employers simple don't like you for being a whiny bitch, I could completely understand that.

Maybe I should ride the back of a war and depend on that for a steady check. Hell if my whole fucking family depended on the military industrial complex for checks than I would be all for this country going broke also.

So I guess this is the part where I should apologize to you for joining the military and not having a dozen kids. Jealous much?


I guess living in a ghetto and getting all your weapons jacked was SOP for you...Got it tough guy.
I really can't wait for your annual EIC picture thread in January.
Within a year of that happening I bought my own house in a different area at the age of 22, please try again. Sure I will get EIC, but at this point it really isn't a huge deal anymore. Besides, ill still be out of the country in January, maybe in the spring when I come home ill send you some pics of all the cool shit I bought with the 40-50 grand I saved up this year. You can put them up on your fridge as a constant reminder for motivation, you could use a little.



So in other words you cannot continue talking about the subject matter of the thread without looking like a fool. Well, you look like a fool either way but you at least have firsthand knowledge about being a broke whiny bitch, so that tangent doesn't look quite as bad.

[swampdragon]

Speaking of being full of crap, you really do not have any idea how to take any of this info into perspective, which is a by-product of dodging deployments. I'm sure it seems real scary to you seeing as how you have no baseline to compare with. Why don't you go ahead and take a look at overall sigacts for the past two years vs the three prior to that....although you wont find that on CNN which seems to be your only resource.

The next time you call me full of shit we will get into uncle swampy's stories of killing serb sentries in hand-to-hand combat as an army generator repairman and maybe we can learn another lesson on perspective.


You don't know jack shit about my career.
And I had 20 years worth. What do you have? 3 or 4 years maybe?
DA decides who deploys where and when and why and who does not.
Dodging deployments?
You have your war.
I already had mine.
DA decided not to make me fight in yours too.
Who the hell are you to decide or cast judgment?
For that matter, do you remember when Czechoslovakia was still a communist country?
I do.
I still have a scar on the back of my leg as a reminder of a midnight visit across the border once upon a time on a recon mission with 8th ID.

Eat shit you smug lil prick.

Secondly, I was a Combat Medic and also Ordnance.
Well technically, Ordnance, then Medic, then back to Ordnance again.
Where you get generator mechanic is beyond me.
Although as a side note, cooks and mechanics make the world go 'round.
We'd be screwed without them, so they have my respect.

Thirdly, I still have a copy of the after action report as well as counseling statements and an award too for this Serb thing you seem to think untruthful.
Give me your stateside address and let me know when you'll be there.
I'll happily stop by and shove copies of it all straight down your throat.
Let me know where and when tough guy.

You know what? Never mind. You're not even worth the time and I don't have shit to prove to you.
If you want to call me a liar. Fine. What do I care?
Hell...I'll give YOU "my" address and you can stop by any time.
But I doubt you will.
If ya do though, maybe I'll let you lick my scar just for fun.
It's fairly close to my ass.

Fact is, WW2 didn't even take this long to finish.
Bombs are still going off in Iraq (whether you want to admit it or not)
Bombs are not going off in the streets of America. (whether you want to admit it or not)
Iraqis and Afghans are going to go straight back to the same way of life they have lived for 2000 years once the US pulls out.
You don't change 2000 years of history by showing up and doing a half-assed job.

Even Desert Dawg understands this completely.
You either go all the way...or you go the fuck home.
And it's not a slam against the soldiers.
It's a slam against our own stupid fuck politicians in charge.

Your dedication to duty is admirable.
But your duty should be to taking care of your soldiers first...if you have even been trusted with any yet.
The only person who doesn't seem to realize any of this is you.
Especially when you are fighting a war that you are not allowed to even win.
9 years so far? Think about it.

There is a reason why, but you'd have no clue because you are still sippin' the MRE cool-aide and living in a bubble.
I worked my way up to a position in the Big Red One at Brigade level and worked with Division every single day.
And yes, they are in Iraq right now as we speak.
Trust me when I tell you I know a lot more shit than you do.
Wake up Junior.

If I remember right, you had to struggle your ass off just to get in the military in the first place.
The last thing you are is a subject matter expert on being a soldier.
You're lucky you even got in at all.
So preach it to somebody else who may actually give a shit.
You may have some of the Gunsnetter's fooled,
But you don't impress me at all.

By the way, ever heard of the Program Executive Office Command Control Communications Tactical....Tactical Battle Command Battle Staff Operations Course?
No? Well then look it up...or ask somebody higher in rank and more experienced than you about it.
Well yes, that's right. I have my training certificate for that too. I'm one of the guys who used to "input" SigActs that you only just get to read about....just so you know.
And you only get to read what people like me allow you to read.
Get it? The picture is bigger than you.
Wanna see it? Just let me know there Killer.
You have no idea what "perspective" even is yet.
But you'll get there eventually if your ego and arrogance doesn't get you killed first.
I wish you good luck.

:countdown:








You know how all of this relates to the original topic of this thread?
Me neither....

[chiak47]

Sure I will get EIC, but at this point it really isn't a huge deal anymore.

Nuff said...:lool:



Actually, your trade is in decent demand, but I guess your refusal to move out of the middle of nowhere to utilize it is the fault of someone else as well,

Really? Now your an expert in heavy construction. Where are the power plants being built...Where are the skyscrapers sprouting at? Hell our infrastructure is crumbling as far as roads, bridges and dams. You would know what the fuck is going on in this nation if you truly gave a damn about it.

Also...Seeing how you blast me for where I live. We all can't have the luxury of living in a shitty city environment. :lool: I get a per diem for anything over 50 miles.
Thanks for your concern though...:thumbsup:

FWIW...Lets just hope your weapons weren't used to rob or murder after you failed to secure them. Keep protecting America and her interests...I'll sleep good this morning knowing you have shit locked down. :thumbsup:

[daemon734]

blah, blah, blah

So in other words, you have never deployed to a combat zone, don't know shit about the middle east, but you like to pretend that you do. Being a DSTB turd with a bare right shoulder isn't impressing me. So in other words you took the culture class but jammed before they left, and know you think you know something.

So you were in the "ordnance corps" but don't know how I got that you were a gennie mech? You do know that generator mechanics are part of the "ordnance corps", right? And that is exactly what you stated here on this website that you reclassed into....and were previously. I know "ordnance" must sound cooler to the untrained eye, though.

By the way, by the end of this deployment I will be the rank you retired at, with a little less than 6 years in, if that says anything to you about your career.

And you don't have to justify your "secret serb elimination" story to me, because I know its complete bullshit. "Secret missions into Czechoslovakia"? :D Now you are really outdoing yourself. It must be really hard to have to make up stupid shit like this where everyone knows you are a liar just in order to be able to get respect from people when they ask you about your career. If you ever want to compare scars I will gladly show you what a real war scar looks like, not some fake ass shit you got hopping a fence in Germany.

[swampdragon]

So in other words, you have never deployed to a combat zone, don't know shit about the middle east, but you like to pretend that you do. Being a DSTB turd with a bare right shoulder isn't impressing me. So in other words you took the culture class but jammed before they left, and know you think you know something.

So you were in the "ordnance corps" but don't know how I got that you were a gennie mech? You do know that generator mechanics are part of the "ordnance corps", right? And that is exactly what you stated here on this website that you reclassed into....and were previously. I know "ordnance" must sound cooler to the untrained eye, though.

By the way, by the end of this deployment I will be the rank you retired at, with a little less than 6 years in, if that says anything to you about your career.

And you don't have to justify your "secret serb elimination" story to me, because I know its complete bullshit. "Secret missions into Czechoslovakia"? :D Now you are really outdoing yourself. It must be really hard to have to make up stupid shit like this where everyone knows you are a liar just in order to be able to get respect from people when they ask you about your career. If you ever want to compare scars I will gladly show you what a real war scar looks like, not some fake ass shit you got hopping a fence in Germany.

Yeah that's right. The Balkan Wars in Yugoslavia was never a combat zone.
Gotcha.
In fact, I made the whole thing up.
It never even happened.
There never even was a war in Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia was never even a country.
Gotcha.
Obviously you'd know everything about everything about that too since it all happened while you were still in junior high wondering how you'd ever lose your virginity.

Truly you're a fuckin' idiot and you should just shut the fuck up.
My respect for you and your service went from 110% down to -50% just listening to the absolutely retarded shit you've said so far.
But that's right.
I forgot.
You know everything about everything and somebody with 4 times your experience doesn't know anything.
Do I have that right?

You're a fuckin' pathetic joke dude.
As much as you post here, you obviously spend all your time in the MWR tent.
And again, any time you want to see the paperwork, just let me know you lil cock sucker.

There is nothing "secret" about the Serb thing either. It's on record.
Never said it was a secret. You did.
But I guess you'd know.
You're right though.
I don't have to explain a single thing to a lil puke poser like you.
I stated I reclassed back to Ordnance.
Please show me where in the fuckin' world I said anything about generators? Ever?
You are highly confused.
But...I already knew that.

All these different MOS all fall under Ordnance:
http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/mos/ordnance/ordnance-mos.html
And I was an 89B/55B...not a generator mechanic.
However, during Yugoslavia, I was a combat medic at the time.

[swampdragon]

Daemon.....here ya go.
I even left my name on the shit.
You can even go to Face Book and see a picture of me too.
Wanna copy of my fuckin' driver's license too?

I have nothing to hide and don't appreciate being called a liar you lil worthless mother fucker. People like you truly make me sick.
I can do this all damned day long you lil Bitch.
You don't know shit about shit about shit about me.
And I don't give a flying fuck what you believe.

I'd have no reason to lie to you or anybody else here at Gunsnet.
Or anybody else in general for that matter.
I'll leave that kind of pathetic behavior up to you.
You seem to excel at it you wannabe.



Now for the last time, you should truly just shut the fuck up.
You are making a complete and total fool out of yourself.
:flip-bird:


:encore:


EDIT: Personal stuff removed from Public Eye as requested.

[daemon734]

*yawn*

Was this supposed to impress me of make me laugh?

I'll bet you can guess which one it did.

[Roaring Mouse]

Its hardly a secret that the US ran covert missions into what is now the Czech Republic and also into Hungary, I thought this was pretty well known, but there you go.

[MOP]

Daemon734 was right on the spot. The Greek Army was defeated in India, and the Mongol Army crushed Afghanistan (which was a part of the Kingdom of Kwarzim), then they went on to destroy Kwarzim, and sacked the Heart of Islam when they put Baghdad to the torch.
The Mongols were defeated, many years later in the "Holy Land", by Egyptian Islamic Armies
headed by the Mameluk (slave-warrior/leader).

Daemon734, don't let all the talks here pull you down, keep up the Great Jobs.................
............keep sending those taliban scums to their 72 virgins.

[daemon734]

Its hardly a secret that the US ran covert missions into what is now the Czech Republic and also into Hungary, I thought this was pretty well known, but there you go.

Yep, and i'm sure they employed run of the mill douchebag medics to go on them too. his life seems to be mixed with stories he heard from other people in the chow hall, with a little taken from SOF magazine for good measure. Posting his MUC and OMEMS certificate sealed the deal.

correction....he was an ammo handler during the time in question, making these stories much less believable than they even are already.

[Mark Ducati]

FWIW, I like both Swampy and Daemon.... I have respect for both of you, everybody is entitled to an off day or post.... both of you are better than this.

[swampdragon]

Its hardly a secret that the US ran covert missions into what is now the Czech Republic and also into Hungary, I thought this was pretty well known, but there you go.

It "is" pretty well known.
And not every op was conducted by super secret squirrel Delta Force and all that TV stuff either.
Some taskings were set up back then to pull individuals from a multitude of units.
But Daemon would know all about it since he wasn't even in the military at the time.
I'm soooooooo busted by somebody who doesn't know shit about it.
:jerk-n-off:
Maybe when Daemon is done with me, he can go tell HDR all about everything that happened in Vietnam too.
Cuz obviously HDR wouldn't know as much as Daemon about that either.

:laughingtohard:

I'm done with this thread.
LOL.......

[yankeedog]

Yep, and i'm sure they employed run of the mill douchebag
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
I was wondering when "MR War Genius" would get out of the sand trenches long enough to school everybody about everything until he ruins the whole board again!
I bet if you make it to 40, 50 ,60, 95, that when your in Walmart getting laxitives you expect everyone in line to let you go first because your "MR. WAR GENIUS"!!!!
gunsnet while down but with no " MR WAR GENIUS" still = good
gunsnet up and running now with improved " MR WAR GENIUS" = BAD.

[Meatball]

FWIW, I like both Swampy and Daemon.... I have respect for both of you, everybody is entitled to an off day or post.... both of you are better than this.

+1.

[daemon734]

It "is" pretty well known.
And not every op was conducted by super secret squirrel Delta Force and all that TV stuff either.
Some taskings were set up back then to pull individuals from a multitude of units.
But Daemon would know all about it since he wasn't even in the military at the time.
I'm soooooooo busted by somebody who doesn't know shit about it.
:jerk-n-off:
Maybe when Daemon is done with me, he can go tell HDR all about everything that happened in Vietnam too.
Cuz obviously HDR wouldn't know as much as Daemon about that either.

:laughingtohard:

I'm done with this thread.
LOL.......
Hey, you were the one who said you had proof both here and in your callout thread, and then declined to post it. Well, you posted just about every other worthless document you have, but decided not to post all this proof that all I had to do was "just ask for".

Hmmm...fishy.

[swampdragon]

Hey, you were the one who said you had proof both here and in your callout thread, and then declined to post it. Well, you posted just about every other worthless document you have, but decided not to post all this proof that all I had to do was "just ask for".

Hmmm...fishy.

Yep. You're right. Ya got me.
I changed my mind about posting personal stuff in public after I was privately reminded it's not such a great idea.
Neither is PM'ing stuff with personal info to somebody I've never even met.

You win.
You're the man.
Believe whatever you like.
I really don't care.
:thumbsup:

[swampdragon]

Then maybe you should have used the clue I included in the first post when I said that you dont know about a lot of them instead of wondering why you dont see it on CNN.

Please show me all these bombs that are going off all over the place in iraq. That is a serious request, not rhetorical. My dad is there right now along with my old unit and from talking to them not a fucking thing is going on. The sigacts I regularly read say the same thing. Also, whenever something does happen, as it always will, the iraqis successfully deal with it themselves, which was one of our major goals.

Again, you don't really seem to have a firm grasp on what is happening over here, as you obviously don't know much about "this part of the world".



Yep. I have no firm grasp.
There are no bombs going off in Iraq.
You know everything....
:roflwithfeetcv2:

Now for the very sad truth like I said, and it's only going to get worse::pissed:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hwK_CSpBxsNuVUEaDuOwmSSCiqGwD9HQO4BG1

[slamfire51]

And just when you think nothing else could be said.................................:1139png:

[mriddick]

And just when you think nothing else could be said.................................:1139png:

I'm with you as the creator, of this thread it's like having a kid then having it grow into an abortion... :)

[daemon734]

Yep. You're right. Ya got me.
I changed my mind about posting personal stuff in public after I was privately reminded it's not such a great idea.
Neither is PM'ing stuff with personal info to somebody I've never even met.

You win.
You're the man.
Believe whatever you like.
I really don't care.
:thumbsup:


So in other words, when your lackluster bullshit failed to wow me and you realized that was all you had you have to play the bigger man and cut and run? So you lied yet again?

Nice.

[daemon734]

Yep. I have no firm grasp.
There are no bombs going off in Iraq.
You know everything....
:roflwithfeetcv2:

Now for the very sad truth like I said, and it's only going to get worse::pissed:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hwK_CSpBxsNuVUEaDuOwmSSCiqGwD9HQO4BG1

Take a look at the right shoulder on your old uniform, then take a look at your ERB. Then hang yourself.

I have a grasp because I have been in both theaters and because I am in an MOS that actually has something to do with how things go over here. You have never deployed to a combat zone and were basically rock bottom of the army when you were in. Think about that before your next hallucination where you think you were something special and know what's going on.

[daemon734]

Basically here is the real deal from somebody who has been to both places....not fucking heresay from deployment dodgers who get their info from the same bullshit TV networks everyone else does.

The middle east is an unstable place, got it. At the height of the Iraq war there were literally hundreds of bombs going off all the time. We were responsible for each and every one of them in the way of providing security, removing the bombs, conducting post-blast investigations and the casualties were primarily ours as well. For the past several years the Iraqis have provided their own security, the bombs have been directed primarily towards them, the investigations and related arrests were their responsibility alone, and the number of bombings have gone down to one every couple months, if that. Check out the middle of the army times every week if you think the US is involved in real combat operations in Iraq. US casualties have been almost zero for quite some time now. Not bad for a country that still has over 50,000 US troops in it, which at one time was causing upwards of 40-50 US deaths a month.

The COIN campaign in iraq was what was responsible for this switch, as it gave the Iraqi government the stability it needed to accomplish our post invasion goal, which was to have the stand on their own feet and run their own government, deal with their own problems. Bombings coinciding with our withdrawl are to be expected as a political tool from the opposition, but in the end it is their problem not ours. they are now capable of handling it on their own as they are and have been. There is a lot of contextual data here that can easily seem like Iraq is spiralling out of control, but in the big picture it is steadily improving. Iraq now is 100 times better than the place I left in 2007.

The campaign in Afghanistan is following in the footsteps of the one we did in Iraq. Afghan forces are doing a lot of the grunt work with US troops following in an advisory and back-up role. What we are seeing now is the surge and deep pushes we saw in Iraq in the beginning of 2007, which involved heavy fighting for almost a year but broke the back of the insurgency. Its also happening here in Afghanistan, I guarantee you. Once that happens, we will see the same things we saw in Iraq...the government getting enough breathing room to create the infrastructure, public works, and security needed to bring a sense of normalcy back to the country, which as we have found is an awesome motivator for public support.

Nobody responsible for all the defeatism exuding from this thread has yet to give any answer to how a pullout could be accomplished without handing this country over to either Iran or fundamentalist Pakistan (ie the Taliban). This same argument was spouted over Iraq during the hostilities there over and over again, and those same people cannot admit that US military policy actually worked without making themselves look like total fools, so they are going to simply run with it to save face. That's the bottom line.

[slamfire51]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/Canis-latrans/homer_doh_again.jpg

[slamfire51]

Oh, BTW insurgent's bombs kill 60 and injure 200 in Iraq today.

[swampdragon]

Oh, BTW insurgent's bombs kill 60 and injure 200 in Iraq today.

That's not possible.
Iraq is all safe and secure because Daemon said so.
lol...

Kinda like how the military only awards combat patches when the US has official declared war.
Or the Secretary of the Army or higher.
So all those other firefights all over the world don't count as "combat."
Makes no difference how many people on both sides get killed.
...Because Daemon says so.....

:laughingtohard:

[daemon734]

That's not possible.
Iraq is all safe and secure because Daemon said so.
lol...

Kinda like how the military only awards combat patches when the US has official declared war.
Or the Secretary of the Army or higher.
So all those other firefights all over the world don't count as "combat."
Makes no difference how many people on both sides get killed.
...Because Daemon says so.....

:laughingtohard:

Don't get all butthurt because millions have seen combat in the military and in 20 years you were not one of them. Its not as if you would have seen any as an ammo dog anyway. But you can feel free to feel like a total shit dick for dodging the one combat deployment you had orders for.

My dad was in Bosnia in 1994, I told him what you said and he said you were a poser faggot. I guess after two combat tours in Iraq during both wars and 4 years straight in Baghdad as a contractor he may be a little more 'in tune" with what an actual combat tour is like, unlike yourself. Like my old PSG said, posers who never deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan usually create fictitious Bosnia stories so their peers and wives don't secretly laugh at them, even though they still do.

[daemon734]

Oh, BTW insurgent's bombs kill 60 and injure 200 in Iraq today.

And US forces didn't have anything to do with it, we were neither the victims nor the responders. Like I said, you can always count on attacks like this during key political times, like elections, anniversaries, etc. The US drawdown would be counted as one of those times.

Even so, AGAIN....its their problem, they are dealing with it without us, and believe it or not these bombings aren't shit compared to 2005-2007.

[RJ Shooter]

...and the penis size comparisons continue! :cat-n-mouse:

[daemon734]

...and the penis size comparisons continue! :cat-n-mouse:

Hey, I didn't embarrass myself by creating a thread around it and then trying to wow the board by showing the army equivalent of a library card and parking validation stub.

The fact that Swampy was a pogue and never even deployed is very relevant to this discussion in that it proves he has no idea what is going on over here, but loves to tell me that I am full of shit. I stay on a joint afghan/US compound and spend my days and nights tooling around Kandahar city, (the most dangerous place in Afghanistan right now, BTW) and I don't care for deployment dodging pogues who have never been here trying to tell me how it really is.

[btcave]

Mines bigger than both of yours...


http://a.imageshack.us/img187/6336/dsc00068tt.jpg

j/k

[daemon734]

Mines bigger than both of yours...

j/k


Mine's heavier...:D

[btcave]

Stay safe daemon

[daemon734]

Stay safe daemon

Will do, you too.

[old Grump]

http://ww2db.com/images/ship_canberrabaltimore6.jpg

Mine was old school, Terrier missiles and 8" guns. I wasn't thinking about the size of my pee pee, only that I wanted to get back home and use it again.

Now the Jersey had some big pee pee's, only guns I ever saw that I felt more than heard and could watch the projectile move from ship to target, when target was in sight. That only happened once.

[swampdragon]

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=60596

WASHINGTON, Aug. 25, 2010 – A wave of attacks in Iraq today demonstrates that al-Qaida in Iraq is still capable of operating and is desperate to regain lost momentum, the top spokesman for U.S. Forces Iraq told American Forces Press Service today.

“We haven’t seen these types of attacks since May 10,” Army Maj. Gen. Stephen R. Lanza said in a telephone interview from Baghdad. “This shows there is still capability with al-Qaida here to conduct operations. It also shows their intent or desire to try to reinsert themselves, which they have had trouble doing in the past.”

Lanza also condemned the attacks, which heavily targeted police forces, as an attempt to intimidate Iraqi security forces and erode public confidence in them as well as the Iraqi government. He noted that last week’s attacks targeted traffic police, and the scope broadened today to police forces within Iraq’s provincial governments.

“I think there’s a desire by the terrorists and by those who would conduct these attacks to try to intimidate the police,” he said. “They have done a very good job asserting themselves into their jobs, so the police have become a target for the terrorists.”

This makes it more critical than ever that Iraqi security forces “maintain pressure on the network and sustain their vigilance in conducting operations against them,” Lanza said.

“There are still going to be challenges in the days ahead,” he said, emphasizing that U.S. forces will remain in Iraq to support Iraqi security forces even as the U.S. military mission officially changes to an “advise and assist” role under Operation New Dawn on Sept. 1.

“It is only the nature of our relationship that is changing with the Iraqi security forces, not our commitment to the Iraqi security forces,” he said. “We will continue to be here to support them. That is part of our mission here until December 2011.

“It is part of our desire to maintain a strategic partnership with them,” he continued. “More importantly, we want the Iraqis to succeed.”

************************************************** **********


Going in to Afghanistan with the same type of COIN operations that have been so touted as successful is only going to get a whole lot more of our boys killed for nothing.

It's sad, but it's true.
The strategy sucks ass, and this whole "hearts and minds" thing does not work.
Iraq is living proof.
We are leaving, and Al-Qaida is not defeated.
Not by a long shot.
They've just been laying low for a while.
You either have to level the whole damned country, or come the fuck home and stop goofing around.
And that is our government's fault. Not our soldiers.

Afghanistan will be the same, only worse even.
Our military will be depending even more on the local population for assistance, guidance and intelligence.

Do you honestly think these fuckers care about helping us?
No.
They only care about staying alive when they have us on one side and the Taliban on the other, and they are caught in the middle.

They already know full well that one day, we will go home and leave them to their doings, just like Iraq. And the Taliban will still be there too.

Some of you young, dumb and full of cum soldiers really need to take a step back and just look. Knock that chip off your shoulder, stop talking long enough to actually listen, and "maybe" you'll actually learn something.

No matter how noble your cause, you are not going to change 2000+ years of history and dedication to a cause that these people have. You are NOT going to win their hearts and minds. And you damned sure are not going to conquer the "bad guys" while Washington is still feeding you half ass info and tying one hand behind your back.

Watch your own ass. Do everything you can to keep your soldiers alive.
Bring as many people as you can back home alive and in one piece that you possibly can.
Leave no one behind.
Don't get caught up in the politics and brainwashing.

Afghanistan will end one day too, and you will all come home.
And I hope you "ALL" do.
But I already know some won't.
But after you do, Afghanistan will go right back to being the same Afghanistan it's always been for the last 2000 years.

Little pieces of paper like SOFA agreements and etc, are not going to change a thing. It just looks good on someone's desk in DC.
Obviously, al-Qaida doesn't give a shit...and never will.
The Taliban will be no different.

You either have to wipe out the whole place, or stop.
Washington won't let you do either.
Wake the fuck up.
Just take care of your guys the best you can.

[swampdragon]

Don't get all butthurt because millions have seen combat in the military and in 20 years you were not one of them. Its not as if you would have seen any as an ammo dog anyway.


Well...let's see.
4th ammo dogs at Carson served as gunners on gun trucks during convoys all over Iraq working with the MPs.
Although that was 3 years ago?
Quite a few of them have purple hearts now too...just like you.
You should call the 60th Ordnance Company at Carson and verify this...since I'm sure you think I'm lying....Dick.
Tell the Commander what shit bags the ammo dogs are.
See how fuckin' far you get with that you douche bag.
You don't know shit about shit other than "your" lil corner of the world, and that's it. Period.


And I was a Medic during my combat time; not ammo. So you're retarded point is moot anyways.

Likewise, I was never in Bosnia.
I said I was in Yugoslavia.
"You" made up the Bosnia part all on your own.
Just like you "assume" all sorts of other shit that you know NOTHING about.
I guess that's just because you are a "know-it-all" asshole with something to prove I guess.
Maybe an inferiority complex you are trying to get over or something.
I don't know?
Did you think the army would finally make you a man after months and months and months and months of them telling you to fuck off?
You really need to get over yourself.
And I don't even have to ask your daddy about it.

I was in Croatia, by the way.
And that was in 1993.....well before your daddy.
And I wasn't assigned to NATO in Bosnia.
I was a Combat Medic with the United Nations Protection Forces at the time, and went on regular patrols with multi-national forces into Krajina.
I'm sure that means nothing to you until you research it a little bit.
I'm sure you don't know jack shit about it. But you'll assume you do anyways because that's just the character pattern you've established so far.

Why I'm telling you all of this at this point....I have no idea.
It's not like you'd believe me anyways simply because I didn't go to Iraq.
But feel free to ask any Admin or any Mod here.
They've seen some of the stuff I was going to show you...but changed my mind simply because you are a Dick with no clue.

I'm not butt-hurt at all.
In fact...I'm laughing my ass off at your self-righteous ignorance.
You are quite the stupid, uneducated dumbfuck.
Having to run to your daddy only further proves you have no idea what the hell you are even talking about.
And since he has the place, and the mission, and the time wrong too....well...you get the point.
He wasn't there either.

I find it hilarious that you think you know more about things that happened while you were still a school boy, than the people who were actually there.
:roflwithfeetcv2:

Ask you dad if he recognizes any of these pics?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/132e8132.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/3792461a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/3e455619.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/f519e126.jpg

I look a LOT older now.
But I'm still sexy anyways....lol.
Notice how part of my mustache was singed off at the time?
Don't ask....
EVERYBODY hates the UN.
:laughingtohard:

[daemon734]

Did..did...you just mention a UN peacekeeping mission...?

oh well then my complete apologies there, warrior. It must have been hell.

:laughingtohard:


regardless of the fact that you are NOT a combat vet, your peacekeeping mission in Yugoslavia gives you no insight at all into the current middle eastern campaigns which you consciously dodged. Iraq and Afghanistan make your 6 month peacekeeping trip to Yugoslavia look like an outing to Dave and Busters. Want to know how I know? Because you guys weren't losing people in combat. Because there was no combat patch issued. There are many more reasons as well, not to mention that my father was there as well.

As far as "running to my daddy", in one post I trumped your entire night of scanning your useless documents. In 6 months I will be the rank you retired at in 20, and with a little less than 5 years in the military I have accumulated enough combat decorations that you never saw to more than be able to laugh off any bullshit you have to say. Its pathetic actually, i would be pretty disappointed to have come out of the military after 20 years with as little as you did, hero.

Keep leading from the rear as usual, and keep on trying to convince me on your points you picked up from the mainstream media. Its been going over pretty well for you so far. I concede my personal experiences to your google skills.

Why don't you post another trivial certificate and we can make this topic humorous again?

[daemon734]

speaking of your lame-ass pics....nothing exudes combat like white UN vehicles and fucking berets....


in case you ever want to know I have plenty of pics of what a REAL combat deployment looks like, and they are actually relevant to this discussion, unlike yours. i'll have some from A-stan up here soon enough.


Here's my truck in Iraq
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs562.snc3/30698_1477039292915_1441725661_1287191_5710604_n.j pg

Those guys that you seem to know everything about and I know nothing about? yeah, heres a pic of me and some of them together...
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v329/58/12/1441725661/n1441725661_36297_7425.jpg

Oh, and here is dear old dad, in a combat billet in 1994 in Yugoslavia. You know, the guy that says you were full of shit and who you say must not have ever been there in the first place? Yep, talked to him again, and from what he says about 1% of the people that went there may have seen some potshots or accidentally hit some landmines, but no "combat", and definately no medics running around slitting the throats of serb sentries there Mr. poser-douche.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs297.ash1/22442_1359217667448_1441725661_1018137_6413916_n.j pg



I assume you will retort with a pic of you giving a speech after receiving your last AAM (if you even have any).

[RJ Shooter]

I will say this. I have friends and family that served in the 19th SF Group in the Macedonia region - a few years prior to being sent to Afghan-land. They did indeed see a lot of action (along side Russian GRU) in the region.

I still have images sent to me at the time, and even some of Salma Hayek when she visited the area with the USO. :p

That being said, the War on Terror is a large, full-scale war. Our involvement the Balkans was much smaller in scale. But there was action none-the-less! I do know this. I just don't think it's proper to slam on anyone serving this country honorably, Fobbit/Pogue/REMF or not!!!! I know that in Iraq, there is/was no rear echelon as anyone could be killed at any time, just driving. My brother-in-law commanded the 18th ABN MP BGD in Iraq. He lost men to both combat and IED.

[slamfire51]

I, for one, am getting tired of this, "You said, I said, I did, you did" crap. :slap:

It's made it's 360 several times now. I vote to lock this thread, it's going nowhere even faster now.