Don't count on Social Security!

[JTHunter]

President Obama recently warned that Social Security checks were not guaranteed to be paid in the event the debt ceiling does not get raised before Aug. 3. Regardless of whether he meant it or if it was mere political posturing, it underscores yet another problem with the Social Security system: It's not your money.

When all is said and done, your projected Social Security benefits are simply not your property. The Supreme Court has twice ruled that, in fact. You're simply assessed a tax based on your income and then may get something back in the form of a payment, should you live long enough and/or otherwise qualify -- and if funding remains available.

Read the story here (http://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2011/07/19/dont-count-on-social-security.aspx).

[Warthogg]

it was mere political posturing



Wart

[LAGC]

Well, the real fact of the matter is, many seniors rely on S.S. as their primary source of income. Even under the most conservative of estimations, the "fund" is expected to remain solvent until 2036. If we can somehow survive the retiring Baby Boomer generation with just minor adjustments, the fund should survive indefinitely after that.

The bottom line is: any cuts to Social Security or Medicare pay-outs is STEALING from all those who have paid into it for so many years before hand. Raising the minimum age, etc. is just unacceptable.

Hell, so many older folks are working longer and longer, putting off retirement, its depriving younger folks of their jobs and contributing to unemployment.

If we do anything, we should un-cap the maximum wage base ($106,800) and LOWER the fucking retirement age to get some of these old folks OUT of the work-force so younger folks can have more opportunities.

Or of course we could just fuck over all our seniors, make them eat Cat Food and live on the streets.

"Great Society" indeed.

[Charliebravo]

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme predicated upon an ever-expanding economy and population. All of the assholes of my generation (I'm 37) had better pass on the new car, boat, motorcycle, or LCD TV and start setting some money aside for their retirement or they're going to be screwed. Anyone who thinks that Social Security is their "retirement plan" is a fucking idiot.

[insider]

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme predicated upon an ever-expanding economy and population. All of the assholes of my generation (I'm 37) had better pass on the new car, boat, motorcycle, or LCD TV and start setting some money aside for their retirement or they're going to be screwed. Anyone who thinks that Social Security is their "retirement plan" is a fucking idiot.
You are absolutely right! There will be no social security when we retire.

[Charliebravo]

You are absolutely right! There will be no social security when we retire.I know. I've opted out, but Mrs. 'Bravo is forced to contribute to the government's theft. I just consider it 7% of her salary down the shitter and am saving and investing even more to compensate for the loss.

ETA: LACG, EABOD & DIAF.

[imanaknut]

Well, the real fact of the matter is, many seniors rely on S.S. as their primary source of income. Even under the most conservative of estimations, the "fund" is expected to remain solvent until 2036. If we can somehow survive the retiring Baby Boomer generation with just minor adjustments, the fund should survive indefinitely after that.

The bottom line is: any cuts to Social Security or Medicare pay-outs is STEALING from all those who have paid into it for so many years before hand. Raising the minimum age, etc. is just unacceptable.

Hell, so many older folks are working longer and longer, putting off retirement, its depriving younger folks of their jobs and contributing to unemployment.

If we do anything, we should un-cap the maximum wage base ($106,800) and LOWER the fucking retirement age to get some of these old folks OUT of the work-force so younger folks can have more opportunities.

Or of course we could just fuck over all our seniors, make them eat Cat Food and live on the streets.

"Great Society" indeed.

I was going to say I agree with you completely until I read about making the seniors eat cat food. That was what the democraps said George Bush 2 would do if he got elected. That he would cut Social Security. Funny thing happened, he used cost of living to raise the amount each of his 8 years. Contrast that to the messiah who in his first two years blocked any increases even while prices of food and gasoline were skyrocketing!

Oh wait, I do agree with you on this one LAGC, because obama-messiah and not Bush will cause seniors to starve as a way of helping fix his medical issues with death panels! :yeah:

[LAGC]

Obama is definitely treading very dangerous water here. The "no COLA increases" are bad enough, but if he signs onto any deal cutting S.S. or Medicare, he'll be a one-termer for sure.

S.S. is NOT the problem, run-away military spending is, it eats over half the general budget and is over 3 times the amount it was just 10 years ago! But Mr. Nobel Peace Prize doesn't seem to care.

If we're going to start cutting pork, let's bring our troops home instead of kicking granny out on her ass.

[mriddick]

Funny how people always point to SSI as a ponzi scheme but never point out it was a give away program to most on it today. Only since 1984 has contributors actually paid anything close to a tax that sustains the program (thanks to Reagan), anyone who paid in before that paid a rate that simply could never be expected to support the program. People bought the lie that putting up 1 or 2% of their working wages could pay for 20 or 30 years of SSI payments.

I will say IMO it is silly for the R's to say cutting subsidies to oil companies and aircraft buyers is a tax, yet cutting benefits to those on SSI is not one as well. If we are going to refer to cuts as taxes (dangerous ground for the R's IMO) then refer to all cuts as tax increases.

[coppertales]

that old folks are a drain on society, see obummer care, and should be left to die out. If he would quit giving SS and Medicarre to the illegals, it would help the situation. On the other hand, he is just trying to scare the senior citizens into leaning on their congresscritters to pass his tax and spend policy. It seems like the MSM is using both sides of the deficit issue to state their scare tactics on what is going to happen. I doubt if anyone knows for sure what will happen......chris3

[abpt1]

So does that mean my parents dont have to pay taxes any more ?

[ltorlo64]

Well, the real fact of the matter is, many seniors rely on S.S. as their primary source of income. Even under the most conservative of estimations, the "fund" is expected to remain solvent until 2036. If we can somehow survive the retiring Baby Boomer generation with just minor adjustments, the fund should survive indefinitely after that.

The bottom line is: any cuts to Social Security or Medicare pay-outs is STEALING from all those who have paid into it for so many years before hand. Raising the minimum age, etc. is just unacceptable.

Hell, so many older folks are working longer and longer, putting off retirement, its depriving younger folks of their jobs and contributing to unemployment.

If we do anything, we should un-cap the maximum wage base ($106,800) and LOWER the fucking retirement age to get some of these old folks OUT of the work-force so younger folks can have more opportunities.

Or of course we could just fuck over all our seniors, make them eat Cat Food and live on the streets.

"Great Society" indeed.

You need to look at the history of Social Security. It was never intended to have so many people on it. When Social Security was implemented, the age that you could start getting Social Security was about 62. The average lifespan was, 62. Based on this the age that people should be elligible for Social Security is close to 80. We cannot afford to pay for people to live on Social Security for 20+ years, and it was not designed to do this.

[Solidus-snake]

Hahaha HAHAHA Don't count on it.

I'm just 22, there is no hope for any assistance for me of any sort when I'm old n crippled.

[jojo]

Social Security/Welfare/Food Stamps and all of the Planned Parenthood/Abortion mills and free programs cannot sustain the blizzard of trash running across our borders that sign up for it. Not to mention all of the Billions of dollars in Humanitarian/Economic and Military Aid we give to countries that hate us.

The solution to the problem is really quite simple. We learned it in elementary school.

If Little Johnny has 3 apples and gives 5 apples away how many apples does he have.

[ATAK, Inc.]

Obama is definitely treading very dangerous water here. The "no COLA increases" are bad enough, but if he signs onto any deal cutting S.S. or Medicare, he'll be a one-termer for sure.

S.S. is NOT the problem, run-away military spending is, it eats over half the general budget and is over 3 times the amount it was just 10 years ago! But Mr. Nobel Peace Prize doesn't seem to care.

If we're going to start cutting pork, let's bring our troops home instead of kicking granny out on her ass.


"Run-away military spending", as you put it, being, as you say, 3 times what it was 10 years ago needs to be looked at in context. From 15 to 10 years ago, military spending was at its lowest in a long time, base closures, RIF, program cuts were all over the place. Now we are still in Iraq and Afganistan, even though obama said he would pull out of both, and he is fighting an illegal campaign in Libya and god knows where else. obama doesn't care 'cause he sees continued spending part of his bankrupting of America. Unless you have really studied military function, or were in the military, neither of which apply to you, you would see that it takes a lot to maintain what we have, and to upgrade to keep our edge.

Lefty, your world views are so skewed to the left it isn't even funny.

[mriddick]

That's just it for the most part it's not the illegals screwing up SSI and medicare, they were just never fully funded programs from the start and they were always going to crash at some point. I guess now is the time with the bill is coming due. People in general think they've paid in way more then they have and are due back even greater amounts. The majority of us are a drain on the system, we bearly meet current expenses while working and as soon as we stop fall into the bottom 50% of takers.

[Meat-Hook]

No talk of ending "Sanctuary Cities" nor arresting the politicians who created them. Nor of arresting the so-called business owners who employ them and who make their fortune of of corruption, tax evasion, ect. We must still continue to pay for all the millions and millions of illegals and their off spring. With thousands more crossing the border every week even though there are no more jobs left for them to steal.

Billions of dollars spent on illegals and the BIllions of dollars they send back to their countries of origin. Money that would be in our economy.

The billions and Trillions of dollars that have been spent and may continue to spend with bailouts, QE-1,....QE-2,...QE-3,...and most of all,..all the tax payers money that was spent for Bonus's. Bonus pay outs to assholes who were already millionaires.

Billions of dollars that we borrow from the Communists in China and then give away in foreign aid to pay for Dictatorships around the world and to prop up Socialist countries in Europe. We had to then pay it all back to the Communists-----with interest. Instead of telling all the countries of the world to go to the Communists themselves and borrow their own money.

The entire industrial base of the United States that was handed over to the Communists in China and made their economy BOOM so that a handful of assholes here could make their fortune thru slave labor. This was billions and TRILLIONS of dollars and jobs that were already here.

Now the Leftists of the Hippie/Woodstock/Baby Boom generation, the Jane Fonda, Bill & Hillary Clinton-types,.. who fucked this country up with decades of radicalism and who sold off every iota of this country to the Communists,...want us to pay for their retirements so they dont feel any pain???? The plan was for them to have a party all the way up until they die and then leave all future generations of Americans with their country burnt into ashes. Escape like thieves in the night. Thats why you saw them driving around with bumper stickers that read;

"Im spending my childrens/grandchildrens inheritence". Hahahahaha. Yeah,..."Ha, ..f****** Ha asshole. You really were spending it,...and you knew it.

These traitors who sunk a bayonet into the backs of the American people now want to continue the greatest grand-theft in history by raising the retirement age thus stealing younger generations retirement checks and depositing them into their bank accounts so they can glide all the way into the grave without pain. F-THAT!!!!!!

Its time for all the narcissistic devils who participated in the destruction of this country to be brought to justice pay for their sins.

[(AK)1000shots]

S.S. is NOT the problem, run-away military spending is, it eats over half the general budget and is over 3 times the amount it was just 10 years ago! But Mr. Nobel Peace Prize doesn't seem to care.

Not sure where you get your numbers from, but here's a looky-loo:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/summary.pdf

There's a summary of the FY2011 budget. SS/Medicare/Medicaid and entitlement programs are the vast majority of spending. Entitlement program spending will only get worse. Yeah, some military spending can be cut, like certain artillery and aircraft programs, but mostly what will need to happen is 1) they will increase the retirement age for SS, and 2) semi-privatization will occur. I've already got a Roth IRA and a Roth 401(k) through my job. I'm planning on saving independently for retirement.

[ltorlo64]

"Run-away military spending", as you put it, being, as you say, 3 times what it was 10 years ago needs to be looked at in context. From 15 to 10 years ago, military spending was at its lowest in a long time, base closures, RIF, program cuts were all over the place. Now we are still in Iraq and Afganistan, even though obama said he would pull out of both, and he is fighting an illegal campaign in Libya and god knows where else. obama doesn't care 'cause he sees continued spending part of his bankrupting of America. Unless you have really studied military function, or were in the military, neither of which apply to you, you would see that it takes a lot to maintain what we have, and to upgrade to keep our edge.

Lefty, your world views are so skewed to the left it isn't even funny.

Actually, we are still paying for what President Clinton cut back on during his presidency. The maintenance that was put off, the ships that were decommisioned and the ships that were not built all play a huge part in why defense spending is so high, and I am only looking at the affect on the Navy. Multiply that out by the other services and they President Clinton doesn't look so good. He just pushed the bill off to another President.

[mriddick]

Now the Leftists of the Hippie/Woodstock/Baby Boom generation, the Jane Fonda, Bill & Hillary Clinton-types,.. who fucked this country up with decades of radicalism and who sold off every iota of this country to the Communists,...want us to pay for their retirements so they dont feel any pain???? The plan was for them to have a party all the way up until they die and then leave all future generations of Americans with their country burnt into ashes. Escape like thieves in the night. Thats why you saw them driving around with bumper stickers that read;

"Im spending my childrens/grandchildrens inheritence". Hahahahaha. Yeah,..."Ha, ..f****** Ha asshole. You really were spending it,...and you knew it.

These traitors who sunk a bayonet into the backs of the American people now want to continue the greatest grand-theft in history by raising the retirement age thus stealing younger generations retirement checks and depositing them into their bank accounts so they can glide all the way into the grave without pain. F-THAT!!!!!!

Its time for all the narcissistic devils who participated in the destruction of this country to be brought to justice pay for their sins.
Very true although that's a lot of grandma's and pa's that should be brought to justice. People 40 and under have been contributing at a fairly decent rate, one which if it had been place from the start SSI might never run out of money. Those 40-roughly to 60 yr old have paid in varying amounts from 2% to the current rate, those 61 and over most likely started off paying in about 1% of wages. In the mid 80's it wasn't uncommon for a person to collect all they paid in within the first year of drawing SSI, today it's a more sustainable 8 years or so.

My wife's mother has been drawing since the mid 80's and never paid in any amount greater then 2%, or I should say her husband never did since she never worked, never saved and never worried about retirement. At some point in the future I think those 60 and older right now will be viewed as the golden generation that sucked down the wealth of the next 2 or 3 generations and just about wrecked the nation (hopefully it's “just about” and not "did wreck"). I've often joked with others in my age group that we'll be lucky if the generations after us don't dig up our bones and defecate on them after what's been laid on them in the way of bills.

[Warthogg]

Social Security/Welfare/Food Stamps and all of the Planned Parenthood/Abortion mills and free programs cannot sustain the blizzard of trash running across our borders that sign up for it. Not to mention all of the Billions of dollars in Humanitarian/Economic and Military Aid we give to countries that hate us.

The solution to the problem is really quite simple. We learned it in elementary school.

If Little Johnny has 3 apples and gives 5 apples away how many apples does he have.


If Little Johnny has 3 apples and gives 5 apples away how many apples does he have.


HeyZus got 3 apple L J ain't got shit.


..............free programs cannot sustain the blizzard of trash running across our borders that sign up for it.


Very small percentage of trash and a huge preponderance of people trying to support their families. The US needs those workers. Mexico's birth rate is declining so the number of available workers available for export is also declining. The real question is where will the new workers come from when Mexico can no longer supply our needs.....which is in roughly ten years.


Not to mention all of the Billions of dollars in Humanitarian/Economic and Military Aid we give to countries that hate us.



Yup, Israel shouldn't get another nickel.


Wart

[ltorlo64]

Very small percentage of trash and a huge preponderance of people trying to support their families. The US needs those workers. Mexico's birth rate is declining so the number of available workers available for export is also declining. The real question is where will the new workers come from when Mexico can no longer supply our needs.....which is in roughly ten years.


This is a falicy. If we would quit paying people to not work, they would start to the jobs that illegal immigrants perform. I am not saying that it will stop all illegal immigration, but Americans faced with not eating would work.

Let us not forget the untapped work force that we have legislated out of existence. That would be teenagers. I used to work picking fruit and berries when I was 13-14. I mowed lawns and bought my own riding lawn mower when I was 14 and then when I was 16 I started working as a bagger in a grocery store. I had plenty of work experience by the time I was ready to actually able to enter the work force doing "jobs that Americans won't do". Now we have made it illegal, or at least very difficult, for kids less that 18 to work. This requires an insurge from somewhere, and it is currently being, at least partly, by illegals.

[mriddick]

This is a falicy. If we would quit paying people to not work, they would start to the jobs that illegal immigrants perform. I am not saying that it will stop all illegal immigration, but Americans faced with not eating would work.

Let us not forget the untapped work force that we have legislated out of existence. That would be teenagers. I used to work picking fruit and berries when I was 13-14. I mowed lawns and bought my own riding lawn mower when I was 14 and then when I was 16 I started working as a bagger in a grocery store. I had plenty of work experience by the time I was ready to actually able to enter the work force doing "jobs that Americans won't do". Now we have made it illegal, or at least very difficult, for kids less that 18 to work. This requires an insurge from somewhere, and it is currently being, at least partly, by illegals.
Most of those Americans who will not work and living off federal money are retirees. One reason we are bringing in illegals is so people can retire earlier. There is a reason why the unions are for allowing illegals in and that comes from them knowing they need a lower wage worker to work, provide a companies profits and pay for their current pensions.

[Solidus-snake]

Most of those Americans who will not work and living off federal money are retirees. One reason we are bringing in illegals is so people can retire earlier. There is a reason why the unions are for allowing illegals in and that comes from them knowing they need a lower wage worker to work, provide a companies profits and pay for their current pensions.

And most companies will of course hire the illegal immigrant for dirt cheap instead of the American citizen. "Just business" theyd say, frikking commie bastards IMO.

[yankeedog]

Im not worried about it.
There will be money when Im ready to retire.
Also instead someone relying on the government taking care of you how about giving up cigarettes and beer and save the money in a CD at the bank or something and take care of yourself?

[mriddick]

Technically speaking it will be there for me as well, I guess some of us just worry about what our children are going to be stuck with in the end.

[JTHunter]

The bottom line is: any cuts to Social Security or Medicare pay-outs is STEALING from all those who have paid into it for so many years before hand.

As far as STEALING goes, what do you call it when SS benefits are given to millions of people that have never paid a DIME for those benefits the way the rest of have?:swear::anger:

Get all these "undocumented immigrants" (ILLEGAL aliens) that haven't paid SS taxes off of the rolls and maybe, just MAYBE, SS will stay solvent until 2036. Otherwise, your outlook is blindly optomistic. SS won't remain solvent past 2020, esp. when the cost of DumboCare siphons off every last cent this country has left!:pissed:

[Warthogg]

Quote Originally Posted by Warthogg View Post
Very small percentage of trash and a huge preponderance of people trying to support their families. The US needs those workers. Mexico's birth rate is declining so the number of available workers available for export is also declining. The real question is where will the new workers come from when Mexico can no longer supply our needs.....which is in roughly ten years.




This is a falicy. If we would quit paying people to not work, they would start to the jobs that illegal immigrants perform. I am not saying that it will stop all illegal immigration, but Americans faced with not eating would work.

Let us not forget the untapped work force that we have legislated out of existence. That would be teenagers. I used to work picking fruit and berries when I was 13-14. I mowed lawns and bought my own riding lawn mower when I was 14 and then when I was 16 I started working as a bagger in a grocery store. I had plenty of work experience by the time I was ready to actually able to enter the work force doing "jobs that Americans won't do". Now we have made it illegal, or at least very difficult, for kids less that 18 to work. This requires an insurge from somewhere, and it is currently being, at least partly, by illegals.

I post as things really are while you post the way you hope things might be. There is no fallacy in my post.

Do you think welfare recipients are going to work ?? Do you think for a second the dimocrats will allow welfare workers to work ?? As for 'exploiting' teenagers, I just can't deal with that horror. One night the projector operator didn't show at the drive-in theater. Suddenly I had my first SS paying job. I was 12.


Wart

[Warthogg]

Technically speaking it will be there for me as well, I guess some of us just worry about what our children are going to be stuck with in the end.

Social Security will be just as sound as the American dollar for you (and me) and your kids.


Wart

[Warthogg]

Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
Most of those Americans who will not work and living off federal money are retirees.


Would be of interest to have you psychologically evaluated to determine the underlying cause for your hatred of retirees.


Wart

[mriddick]

As far as STEALING goes, what do you call it when SS benefits are given to millions of people that have never paid a DIME for those benefits the way the rest of have?:swear::anger:

Get all these "undocumented immigrants" (ILLEGAL aliens) that haven't paid SS taxes off of the rolls and maybe, just MAYBE, SS will stay solvent until 2036. Otherwise, your outlook is blindly optomistic. SS won't remain solvent past 2020, esp. when the cost of DumboCare siphons off every last cent this country has left!:pissed:

I bet most have paid into the system, the question is what is an acceptable level for a person to pay in and collect. 80% of the population doesn't even come close to paying in what the program is actually costing. Many on SSI right now (many of our parents and grand parents) paid in less then $40,000 and are collecting literally 10X that amount since retirement. I know people who worked 3 years then have got disability for 33 years. In the big picture what does it matter if a person hardly pays in and then collects $200,000 lifetime or a person pays in $150,000 and then collects $400,000... Both are taking more then they ever paid in at a rate that's bankrupting the system.

[mriddick]

Would be of interest to have you psychologically evaluated to determine the underlying cause for your hatred of retirees.


Wart

You seem to miss the fact it's the not the retirees it's the unfunded program, but then again facts never have meant much to you have they...


Social Security will be just as sound as the American dollar for you (and me) and your kids.


Wart

I was referring to the bill, I've never said SSI was going away. Our children will get reduced benefits while paying in at greater rates to pay for the bills we are racking up now.

[Warthogg]

Most of those Americans who will not work and living off federal money are retirees. One reason we are bringing in illegals is so people can retire earlier. There is a reason why the unions are for allowing illegals in and that comes from them knowing they need a lower wage worker to work, provide a companies profits and pay for their current pensions.


Quote Originally Posted by Warthogg:

Would be of interest to have you psychologically evaluated to determine the underlying cause for your hatred of retirees.


Wart




mriddick;150777:

You seem to miss the fact it's the not the retirees it's the unfunded program, but then again facts never have meant much to you have they.



mriddick sez:

Most of those Americans who will not work and living off federal money are retirees.


While you have lost your limited ability to read and comprehend your own posts.


Wart

[mriddick]

Prove me wrong, are most getting a government SSI check and not working not retirees? What I was saying is people like to point to illegals in this mess and act as if they are the reason the system is failing. The real issue is those of us who are to draw SSI and medicare (of which I include myself in this group) have never paid in enough to pay for the system.

My opinion is we need to define what benefits we want then figure out the cost and how to pay for it. The American people clearly want these programs pretty much as they are, we should figure a way to pay for them.

[kuntryboy]

Im not worried about it.
There will be money when Im ready to retire.
Also instead someone relying on the government taking care of you how about giving up cigarettes and beer and save the money in a CD at the bank or something and take care of yourself?

i agree but some will say: light up and drink up, the bastards want to tax that money too.

[O.S.O.K.]

I think we all know that they will turn to "means testing" at some time in the near future. They will have to as there simply won't be enough funding to keep up 100% coverage.

This sucks, as it punishes those who have prepared...

However, one good thing about that is if you are a gobberment worker or retired union tool and have a fat pension, that will count against you :) :) :) Or, it better damned well :mad: That's our tax money as well funding the gov. pensions.... and our tax money covering the bail-out funds that went right into the pockets of the unions.

As I think of that last - that alone should be enough to incite a revolution in this country... but not a peep...

[mriddick]

Means testing those who've probably paid in the most (top earners) means they just end up losing the benefits to those who did not support the system as much.

BTW Most government workers I know are not in the SSI program to begin so it will not bother them much.

IMO Means testing should be looked as a tax increase if they are going to count other cuts as new taxes.

[yankeedog]

I hate welfare people.
I think they should have to stuff envelopes all day while watching soap operas.

[JTHunter]

However, one good thing about that is if you are a gobberment worker or retired union tool and have a fat pension, that will count against you :) :) :) Or, it better damned well.

Considering how the current pack of hyenas and vultures favored the union employees over the people who actually owned a certain vehicle company, do you really think that most union people will be put at a disadvantage by "means testing"?