What if, the 40% fix...

[mriddick]

What do think would happen if tomorrow it was announced everyone getting a government check from corporations to individuals would only be getting 40% of that check from here on out?

An odd thought is even if we did something this drastic across the board leaving no one out of the pain we'd still only be balancing the current budget and doing nothing to pay down the debt...

[Warthogg]

PLEASE apply for food stamps again !! I'm betting you'll get approved this time.



Wart

[Krupski]

What do think would happen if tomorrow it was announced everyone getting a government check from corporations to individuals would only be getting 40% of that check from here on out?

An odd thought is even if we did something this drastic across the board leaving no one out of the pain we'd still only be balancing the current budget and doing nothing to pay down the debt...

ANY "solution" to America's financial problems that does not include DOMESTIC MANUFACTURING simply will not work.

Blame the unions, blame the "fat-cats", blame George Bush... none of that matters.

The reason America is going down the drain is that we don't manufacture. It's as simple as that.

Years ago when America was prosperous, all the items on the store shelves said "Made in USA".

Now they all say "Made in China" and America is going broke.

It doesn't take a financial genius to see this.

[El Laton Caliente]

My congressman says a 12% per department REAL decreace would balance the budget in ten years..

I'm running a fund raiser if anyone is interested...

[mriddick]

My congressman says a 12% per department REAL decreace would balance the budget in ten years..

I'm running a fund raiser if anyone is interested...

Have you done the math on that? I think he's telling you want you want to hear hoping you'll never actually put pen to paper, there's no way you can cut 12% of a small part of the budget and get the 40% reduction we actually need.

My idea is something needs done and it needs done starting sooner then later, IMO any politician talking about balancing/fixing/deferring 10/15/20 years out is just allowing this to go on and billing the next generation for our expenses today.

[mriddick]

ANY "solution" to America's financial problems that does not include DOMESTIC MANUFACTURING simply will not work.

Blame the unions, blame the "fat-cats", blame George Bush... none of that matters.

The reason America is going down the drain is that we don't manufacture. It's as simple as that.

Years ago when America was prosperous, all the items on the store shelves said "Made in USA".

Now they all say "Made in China" and America is going broke.

It doesn't take a financial genius to see this.

How does government change that? Haven't we just spent 1.6 trillion trying to get government to create jobs?

Do you work a manufacturing job? If not do you think you're causing more harm then good? I think it really doesn't matter what type of industry a country has when it comes to balancing it's budget, while it might be a good goal I think it's a distraction to the debate about the balanced budget overall.

[raxar]

ANY "solution" to America's financial problems that does not include DOMESTIC MANUFACTURING simply will not work.

Blame the unions, blame the "fat-cats", blame George Bush... none of that matters.

The reason America is going down the drain is that we don't manufacture. It's as simple as that.

Years ago when America was prosperous, all the items on the store shelves said "Made in USA".

Now they all say "Made in China" and America is going broke.

It doesn't take a financial genius to see this.

The other side of this coin is that manufacturing jobs aren't all that great. Who dreams of growing up and working at a sewing machine 8 hours a day for 40 years? Beyond that who wants their kids to sit at a sewing machine for 40 years? It would be good if we made more stuff, but to be perfectly honest I don't want a factory job, how many people do?

[jojo]

We have been regulated to death. The inventive and individual spirit of Americans has been suffocated.

[PROBASCO]

ANY "solution" to America's financial problems that does not include DOMESTIC MANUFACTURING simply will not work.

Blame the unions, blame the "fat-cats", blame George Bush... none of that matters.

The reason America is going down the drain is that we don't manufacture. It's as simple as that.

Years ago when America was prosperous, all the items on the store shelves said "Made in USA".

Now they all say "Made in China" and America is going broke.

It doesn't take a financial genius to see this.

YES, WE ARE A SERVICE ORIENTED ECONOMY. We service the needs of the government. I do have to point out thast union wages and benefits are part of the cause for mfg going off shore. Without tariffs and our need for high labor costs, were screwed.

[PROBASCO]

The other side of this coin is that manufacturing jobs aren't all that great. Who dreams of growing up and working at a sewing machine 8 hours a day for 40 years? Beyond that who wants their kids to sit at a sewing machine for 40 years? It would be good if we made more stuff, but to be perfectly honest I don't want a factory job, how many people do?


I guess thats why the call it "WORK", not earning money and having fun...geeez that being said, some people are very content to have a steady job they know, can do well and doesn't require any challenges.

[mriddick]

Since it seems no one likes the idea of cutting everything 40% across the board, how about if we raise taxes 40% across the board? 5% tax becomes 7%, 10% becomes 14%, 15% becomes 21%, 30% becomes 42%, etc...

[PROBASCO]

why not just print the money,, that will work right? raising taxes will kill any possible jobs recovery, 7.25 million people looking for work wont like that very much. There is so much waste and fraud, If they put auditors on every $ spent they would same billions.

[mriddick]

why not just print the money,, that will work right? raising taxes will kill any possible jobs recovery, 7.25 million people looking for work wont like that very much. There is so much waste and fraud, If they put auditors on every $ spent they would same billions.

Is that a serous thought? People have suggested that before.

[ltorlo64]

Since it seems no one likes the idea of cutting everything 40% across the board, how about if we raise taxes 40% across the board? 5% tax becomes 7%, 10% becomes 14%, 15% becomes 21%, 30% becomes 42%, etc...

I just saw this question. I get a government check since I am on active duty. I work pretty hard for it, currently about 12 hours a day as project manager of a 1 year aircraft carrier dry docking. If my check was cut by 40%, I would hope I would continue to do my job, but I think I would need to look for other employment.

As for raising taxes, I don't think that does a thing. If we raise taxes, Congress will just overspend that and we will need to raise taxes again.

[Viking350]

How does government change that? Haven't we just spent 1.6 trillion trying to get government to create jobs?

Do you work a manufacturing job? If not do you think you're causing more harm then good? I think it really doesn't matter what type of industry a country has when it comes to balancing it's budget, while it might be a good goal I think it's a distraction to the debate about the balanced budget overall.

There are two distinct problems. One is the trade imbalance caused by the loss of manufacturing jobs. The other problem is the budget deficit. One has no direct impact on the other, with the exception of who we could owe the money to. If the manufacturing jobs were here, we could owe our citizens the money instead of China. That has little affect on our budget deficit. The issue is that the government is taking up too much of the available capital. Capital that could be used to invest in industry that would create jobs. Until we can get the budget under control and begin to whittle down the national debt as a percent of GDP, it will continue to be a drag on the ability of our industry to create jobs.

[stinker]

What do think would happen if tomorrow it was announced everyone getting a government check from corporations to individuals would only be getting 40% of that check from here on out?
Riots in the inner city streets and the usual accusations of wanting to starve the poor and throw grandma over a cliff.

An odd thought is even if we did something this drastic across the board leaving no one out of the pain we'd still only be balancing the current budget and doing nothing to pay down the debt...
It would be a starting point. The next step would have to be shrinking the budget on a massive scale. Spending more money than you have causes deficits. As we shrink the budget and pay back debt we would then need to reduce taxation proportionately. If we got the federal income tax back to where the income tax was sales pitched to be the maximum possible that it ever would be(7%) and eliminate the progressive part of it you would not be able to spit and not hit a good job in this country. EVERYONE would be beating our doors down trying to get their company inside our borders and our cost of living would become very very inexpensive.

Since it seems no one likes the idea of cutting everything 40% across the board
I love the idea. Slash and burn baby burn. Hell, i'll see your 40 and raise you to 60. Next we can ask the same question every week "What federal program or department will we shut down this week?"

The reason America is going down the drain is that we don't manufacture.
Actually...that's a symptom, not a cause. Question is WHY we don't manufacture things here any more. Answer that and you're into the territory of the real cause.

Haven't we just spent 1.6 trillion trying to get government to create jobs?
Which is why we don't have any new jobs. Government can employ everyone tomorrow if it wants too. That part is easy. Just make it illegal for you or anyone else in your house to cook food. You'll either have to hire a cook who will have a set minimum wage with full benefits or eat at a restaurant. If for some reason that's not enough you could then require an elevator operators license that you can only get by taking a 6 month class for anyone that wants to push the floor button. Shazam...full employment overnight.

Government can not create jobs because it can not give you anything it has not first taken from you. It's like trying to fill up a lake by taking a bucket of water from one side and pouring it in at the other side.

Without tariffs
Woah Hoss...Might want to seriously reconsider that for three reasons.
1) It'll only make the things we need and don't make here more expensive. We pay the tariff through higher prices, not the country selling us stuff.
2) If you did that right now it would be an exact repeat of Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act). That was a huge part of triggering the great depression and made it WAYYY worse.
3) It would probably piss some countries off and trigger a trade war. They would probably slap a retaliatory tariff of the same amount as our tariff. That would make our exports so expensive that we would'nt be able to sell a cheeseburger to a starving foreigner.

[mriddick]

No we would'nt actually. If you taxed everything everyone makes over $75000 at a rate of 100% you still don't have enough to pay this years budget, and you'll only get to do it once. The next year there won't be anyone left making more than 75k and the budget will be fubared beyond recognition.

I don't get the point here, how does a 40% across the board cut in government spending equate to a tax that takes everything from those making above $75,000?

[Warthogg]

Question is WHY we don't manufacture things here any more. Answer that and you're into the territory of the real cause.

We (and Japan) have the highest corporate tax on planet earth. Both Japan and the US are broke.


Wart

[stinker]

I don't get the point here, how does a 40% across the board cut in government spending equate to a tax that takes everything from those making above $75,000?
Errm...ummm.....i kinda misread that...WTFLOL moment.. :dammit:
Redacted.

We (and Japan) have the highest corporate tax on planet earth. Both Japan and the US are broke.


Wart
That's part of it, a pretty big part of it but there's more.

[mriddick]

Remember this type of cut is what Congress has pushed off on our kids, plus they get the bill for everything we run up between now and then.
Maybe we ought to be thinking....
We got to get over we can't cut some programs now when we are asking the future to cut doubly hard.
We got to get over the idea we can't raise taxes because it will hurt our economy when we are setting the future up to have a destroyed economy regardless.

[ltorlo64]

We got to get over the idea we can't raise taxes because it will hurt our economy when we are setting the future up to have a destroyed economy regardless.

I wouldn't mind, well I would mind but I would be less opposed, tax increases if it was not the first thing Deomcrats discussed. First we need to cut spending, and once we have cut the useless stuff from the budget then we can figure out how much taxes need to be raised. To raise taxes first just makes the problem worse as it does not address the problem. We did not get here by taxing too much but by spending too much. Of course, the problem is what I think is useless spending is not what a liberal thinks is useless spending. A liberal thinks spending money on someone who is not working is important while spending money on our protection is useless, while I think exactly opposite.

[El Laton Caliente]

Just removing the "baseline" budgeting that adds 3% to 8% to every Federal Government Department every year would be a start. Also all the "baselines" are assuming a GDP growth of 4% or more annually, not close to reality in a recession.

So far, all the "savings" are just cuts in the INCREASE of the budget.

[Krupski]

How does government change that? Haven't we just spent 1.6 trillion trying to get government to create jobs?

Do you work a manufacturing job? If not do you think you're causing more harm then good? I think it really doesn't matter what type of industry a country has when it comes to balancing it's budget, while it might be a good goal I think it's a distraction to the debate about the balanced budget overall.

A distraction? I disagree. It's completely on-topic.

I get so tired of people talking about "tax cuts" and "stimulus" and all the other BS that politicians throw around... amazingly... with a completely straight face when any 5 year old can see and understand why America is going broke.

Think of American wealth as a bucket full of water. If there is a leak in the bucket (i.e. outsourcing manufacturing), simply dipping a cup into the bucket and pouring it somewhere else in the bucket (stimulus) does not refill the bucket.

Until the leak is plugged AND the water is replenished by domestic manufacturing, the problem WILL NOT GO AWAY.

Or, just go on with the intellectual "debate" about tax cuts, tax increases, stimulus or any other bullshit that the government wants you to believe will work and I won't hijack the thread with the honest truth anymore.

[Krupski]

We have been regulated to death. The inventive and individual spirit of Americans has been suffocated.

Nowadays, individual spirit and inventiveness is ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED.

It starts in grade school. A kid who isn't failing at least one class and actually turns in his homework is called a "brain" and the cool kids don't want to be seen anywhere near a "brain".

Later if the kid goes to college, learns a technical skill and actually knows how to DO things, he's called a "nerd".

If that person takes pride in his work and spends a little extra time doing it JUST RIGHT, management accuses him of "wasting time" and he eventually gets fired for "lack of productivity".

The unstoppable American "can-do" attitude died somewhere in the 1970's...

But hey, maybe a stimulus will solve the problem. Yeah that's it. Give me back a few dollars of my own money and all will be well.

Duh... people actually BELIEVE that!

[mriddick]

Just removing the "baseline" budgeting that adds 3% to 8% to every Federal Government Department every year would be a start. Also all the "baselines" are assuming a GDP growth of 4% or more annually, not close to reality in a recession.

So far, all the "savings" are just cuts in the INCREASE of the budget.
You can't go by the base savings, you need to look at the figures this year and cut those numbers 40%, that is how deep the cuts need to go. There would be no baseline increases since revenues have pretty much remained stagnant. This is why anyone talking about cutting baselines or small cuts of 12% here or there and we'll be balanced in 10 years is a liar.

A distraction? I disagree. It's completely on-topic.

I get so tired of people talking about "tax cuts" and "stimulus" and all the other BS that politicians throw around... amazingly... with a completely straight face when any 5 year old can see and understand why America is going broke.

Think of American wealth as a bucket full of water. If there is a leak in the bucket (i.e. outsourcing manufacturing), simply dipping a cup into the bucket and pouring it somewhere else in the bucket (stimulus) does not refill the bucket.

Until the leak is plugged AND the water is replenished by domestic manufacturing, the problem WILL NOT GO AWAY.

Or, just go on with the intellectual "debate" about tax cuts, tax increases, stimulus or any other bullshit that the government wants you to believe will work and I won't hijack the thread with the honest truth anymore.
You can type all that but not even answer the question of are you in manufacturing (I think not) and if not why is it OK for you not to be? Once again we have this generation telling the next they need to become something they are not to fix the problem we are creating today. To me it's a big push off. You want our kids to compete with chinese laborers all the while you don't take on cut in any service you get today. I call BS on that. You can call cuts today BS only because you must be willing to push it off one more generation.

And that doesn't even touch on how the government could create jobs even if it wanted to.

[stinker]

I think it's a distraction to the debate about the balanced budget overall.

Nowadays, individual spirit and inventiveness is ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED.

You can type all that not even answer the question of are you in manufacturing
Krupski is right about the problem with our manufacturing base. You are also right about the cuts needed to the budget. Right now you're doing the circular firing squad thing.

It does not matter if he has a manufacturing job or not. If we brought that base back not everyone is going to get a job in it. If it truely is a job that no american wants to do then the company likely won't move here.

I think you have a stigma in your head that manufacturing work is essentially slave labor sweatshop work, but that's not necessarily the case Software development(loosely fits manufacturing description), microchip manufacture and design, assembling dvd players, cnc machinist, welder, the guy running the chemical mixing equipment at a plant, the heavy equipment operator moving stuff at a plant,etc. Use your imagination. Ask a guy working at a ford or toyota plant if they despise their job and would rather be a pool cleaner or waiter. Apply the domino effect to every new company and you come up with a massively expanded tax base. Then the service base then must necessarily expand to provide for the needs of the manufacturing industrial sectors. Without a manufacturing base the service sector is basically just shuffling money around between workers until inflation wipes out the net value of their money.

The point is to have jobs that involve taking raw materials and increasing their net worth with labor and turning it into a more useful object. It increases the actual wealth of the nation. That consequently increases the tax revenues that go into the treasury, which brings us to your point. There needs to be massive cuts to the federal budget. You're right too. Historically for the last 40 or 50 years when the revenues rise congress goes on a drunken spending binge instead of dealing with it's tab. That would be the last thing i want to see happen. Cuts need to happen and happen now on a massive scale.

You can't go by the base savings
That's not what he's talking about. He's talking about eliminating the suicidal practice of looking at last years budget and automatically increasing next years budget by a fixed amount reguardless of how much money you actually bring in. That practice is one of the biggest things beyond simple political greed that have pushed us to needing to do the cuts you(and i) advocate. That is a budgetary invention that lies exclusively at the feet of the dipshitocrats that was enacted because they knew it would massively expand the government over time. Gotta give the communists credit for having epic patience.

A conservative cookie goes to El Laton Caliente for pointing that out. :thumbspbig:

All this shit is intertwined. Needing massive cuts, baseline budgeting, over regulation and the resulting shrinking manufacturing base are four heads of the same federal hydra.

Still one big huge one nobody has mentioned that fits in the captain obvious category.

[Cypher]

What if the government just took 100% of everyone's income and then handed out coupons and stamps for all our food, housing, transportation, utility and clothing needs? They could even schedule clothing coupons around your birthday and Christmas time so it would be like your getting a gift.

If they did this the debt could be paid down and we would have a surplus in 20 years, it's a small sacrifice for the greater good right?

[mriddick]

My belief is it doesn't matter so much what the jobs are, a balanced budget could be done off agriculture, manufacturing, business or anything, as all a balanced budget needs is some pol to spend only what comes in. When people limit it to certain jobs what they want is the high paying benefits, it's not so much the workers (as shown by those saying this not walking the walk).

As for base line accounting again you are dependent on what the future generations can make of what we are leaving them. Since we are leaving deeply in debt at the federal, state and local level we are basically telling them to dig themselves out of the mess all the while saddling them with a burden we refuse to deal with ourselves. And this doesn't even touch on it's completely dependent on growth which is not always there and even if so can be over estimated by the powers that be to inflate what they can spend today. This is why base line account seldom works.


What if the government just took 100% of everyone's income and then handed out coupons and stamps for all our food, housing, transportation, utility and clothing needs? They could even schedule clothing coupons around your birthday and Christmas time so it would be like your getting a gift.

If they did this the debt could be paid down and we would have a surplus in 20 years, it's a small sacrifice for the greater good right?

So you've bought into the whole government owes us a check thing?

[Nashorn]

The other side of this coin is that manufacturing jobs aren't all that great. Who dreams of growing up and working at a sewing machine 8 hours a day for 40 years? Beyond that who wants their kids to sit at a sewing machine for 40 years? It would be good if we made more stuff, but to be perfectly honest I don't want a factory job, how many people do?

Who cares if the mfg. jobs are fun or not. It will feed your famiy and pay your bills. You have to do what you have to do. My father worked 38 years at the Bethlehem Steel, ask him if it was fun. But he did go to work everyday because he had a family to support and bills to pay. teaching me and my sister the meaning of good work ethics. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon . It is what it is. Remember those mfg. jobs helped us win 2 world wars and made us a major world power. They are all but gone here in Pa. today, you should know. The once great steel mills, cement mills, garment industry and a host of others are gone forever due to outsourcing overseas. Krupski is right they need to come back. People can't buy new cars and things if they have no job, the logic is that simple. So easy a caveman can see it.

[T2K]

About manufacturing...

It's not like a bunch of American companies decided to "outsource" and that's that.
You think American companies make all the crap you buy in Wal Mart? You think American companies make all your electronics? You think American companies make the top selling cars in the US today?

American companies have to compete in the market. If someone else can make an equal or better product cheaper then, guess what, you're out of business. Wal Mart is an American company but their suppliers mostly are not.

Wages for workers, along with raw material costs, are two major expenses in manufacturing. The guy in China and India expects a lot, lot less from his job than an American worker, especially an American union worker. That's the bottom line.

Chinese wages and standards of living are rising. US wages are decreasing, relatively. Also, when fuel hits another high, shipping will be expensive. Eventually, this will even out and it will be cheaper to make toothbrushes in Alabama than in Thailand.

[Warthogg]

Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
What if the government just took 100% of everyone's income and then handed out coupons and stamps for all our food, housing, transportation, utility and clothing needs? They could even schedule clothing coupons around your birthday and Christmas time so it would be like your getting a gift.

If they did this the debt could be paid down and we would have a surplus in 20 years, it's a small sacrifice for the greater good right?








So you've bought into the whole government owes us a check thing?

What are you complaining about ?? He said "stamps for all our food".



Wart

[Warthogg]

About manufacturing...

It's not like a bunch of American companies decided to "outsource" and that's that.
You think American companies make all the crap you buy in Wal Mart? You think American companies make all your electronics? You think American companies make the top selling cars in the US today?

American companies have to compete in the market. If someone else can make an equal or better product cheaper then, guess what, you're out of business. Wal Mart is an American company but their suppliers mostly are not.

Wages for workers, along with raw material costs, are two major expenses in manufacturing. The guy in China and India expects a lot, lot less from his job than an American worker, especially an American union worker. That's the bottom line.

Chinese wages and standards of living are rising. US wages are decreasing, relatively. Also, when fuel hits another high, shipping will be expensive. Eventually, this will even out and it will be cheaper to make toothbrushes in Alabama than in Thailand.

Plus the USA (and Japan) have the highest corporate tax rates in the world.



Wart

[Cypher]

So you've bought into the whole government owes us a check thing?

Hells to the yeah, the government knows much better what I need to spend my hard earned money on. Screw the rich white business MAN, after all they just get everything handed to them because they were born into it or went to rich persons bank and got free money right? Everyone knows this. With my plan I don't even have to work, I can just sit at home and get coupons and vouchers for everything I need and it's all paid for with someone elses money, woo hoo.



What are you complaining about ?? He said "stamps for all our food".
Wart

Not just food, EVERYTHING, no one should be able to decide what they do with the money they break their backs and/or minds on every day.





P.S. Am I being sarcastic enough?

[mriddick]

I notice some conservatives have taken the tract of decrying everything as a tax increase in an effort to raise opposition to any ideas to actual fix the budget. IMO the only way you could see a 40% across the board cut as a tax increase is if you're one of those getting a check from the government.

[Cypher]

What do think would happen if tomorrow it was announced everyone getting a government check from corporations to individuals would only be getting 40% of that check from here on out?


I notice some conservatives have taken the tract of decrying everything as a tax increase in an effort to raise opposition to any ideas to actual fix the budget. IMO the only way you could see a 40% across the board cut as a tax increase is if you're one of those getting a check from the government.

From your first statement you would receive 40% of your paycheck. Are you saying that this is acceptable in your mind as opposed to proven methods of increasing revenue such as lowering taxes? Are you being serious?

[mriddick]

From your first statement you would receive 40% of your paycheck. Are you saying that this is acceptable in your mind as opposed to proven methods of increasing revenue such as lowering taxes? Are you being serious?

At this point if offered a tax decrease or a decrease in benefits I would take the sure bet of less spending to reduce the debt. The GDP of the US is slightly over 14 trillion, we need to either cut spending 1 trillion or get that amount in increased revenues, I do not trust there's enough left in this economy to get 7-8% more in revenues out of a tax decrease but I'd be glad to hear the proof behind anyone's proposals along those lines. Although IMO it's fairly easy to see if you are spending $3 and earning $2 you need to reduce spending by a $1.

Also note the cut I proposed only applies to those getting a government check, those in the private sector would be untouched as the problem is trying to reduce government spending only.

[Cypher]

Also note the cut I proposed only applies to those getting a government check, those in the private sector would be untouched as the problem is trying to reduce government spending only.

I defenitly agree with government checks being cut. I don't agree with non-gov income being taxed 60%.

If the government doesn't stop spending money it doesn't have then things will never get better.

[raxar]

Who cares if the mfg. jobs are fun or not. It will feed your famiy and pay your bills. You have to do what you have to do. My father worked 38 years at the Bethlehem Steel, ask him if it was fun. But he did go to work everyday because he had a family to support and bills to pay. teaching me and my sister the meaning of good work ethics. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon . It is what it is. Remember those mfg. jobs helped us win 2 world wars and made us a major world power. They are all but gone here in Pa. today, you should know. The once great steel mills, cement mills, garment industry and a host of others are gone forever due to outsourcing overseas. Krupski is right they need to come back. People can't buy new cars and things if they have no job, the logic is that simple. So easy a caveman can see it.

who said anything about whether or not the jobs are fun? The point is that people don't want to do them, and the people who shout "WE NEED MANUFACTURING!" also happen to not work in it!

[Nashorn]

who said anything about whether or not the jobs are fun? The point is that people don't want to do them, and the people who shout "WE NEED MANUFACTURING!" also happen to not work in it!

Well if they don't want to do them, let them starve. Since I rertired from the Army 16 years ago I had more than my share of SHITTY jobs to make ends meet until something better came along. I didnt sit on my ass looking for free handouts waiting for the perfect job to come along. I did what I had to do to pay my bills and feed my kids, it is called taking care of your responsibilities. Try it sometime. That is what is wrong with this country right now. People think they can have it their way all the time. They need a reality check. As for mfg. jobs thsats all I did for the last 16 years, mfg. jobs call for "SKILLED LABOR" something todays society lacks. Because alot of kids today are to lazy to learn a trade and get off their lazy ass and use it. Most around here want a collage degree , but for what? Maybe to be a dealer at the Sands Casino here in Bethlehem where the old Steel Mill used to be. And yes there is a collage course for it, I kid you not.

[raxar]

I didnt sit on my ass looking for free handouts waiting for the perfect job to come along. I did what I had to do to pay my bills and feed my kids, it is called taking care of your responsibilities. Try it sometime.

Oh? Please then, since you know me so well tell me about all the gubmit handouts I recieve. Inform us all about how I've never done an honest day's work. You're so perceptive after all. I'm so curious about how you know about my lack of responsibility and complete unwillingness to do real work. Please go on and deride me for my leaching off of decent blue collar folks like yourself.

I'm just curious how you figured me out so well based on 2 posts on the internet.

[arcangel]

If someone doesnt want to work then tough shit man, get the fuck out. Our country was founded on and continued on hard work. All of a sudden that stops? There are hard working Americans out there, and there are the lazies. Always will be I suppose. But we need to get them out or put them somewhere that our country has a use for them, either work stateside or go to A-stan and see how good they have it here. We have it so good as Americans, spoiled by the unions and government handouts. My experience with the union is that they are only there to take your money, and protect lazy workers. While the hard workers get to make up the productivity loss. If they want to cut military spending then we could get into the practice of dropping nukes on whoever fucks with us, see if they wanna mess with the best after that. As a country we may be going broke but why does everyone else still like our money so much?