Thinking about buying an Arsenal SGL21. Talk me out of it

[Joeroe]

After some research I think I want an arsenal SGL21. I like that it has a Russian barrel/receiver, optics rail and seems to be a quality piece. I really haven't heard anything bad about it other than it being overpriced. I don't care for the furniture but I'm hoping someone makes a NATO length furniture set in the original AK color for it. Before I buy I thought I'd give you guys a chance to talk me out of it. I do like the Yugo m70 but don't think the under folder stock would be comfortable for a guy my size and I want the ability to mount optics.

Since I'm new to the AK world and you guys have hands on experience please tell me if you think I'm making the wrong decision. It will be used primarily as a range gun but if the sh** hits the fan one of these days it will be good to know I have a reliable weapon that is fairly accurate.

I'm hoping I never need to mount optics but I do want the option. I would like it to look as much like an old school AK as possible. I'm usually a function over form type of guy but I love the way an original AK looks.

Thanks

[Schuetzenman]

Well it is a converted Russian made Saiga rifle. Really it's something that a lot of folks do for themselves to the degree of putting an original AK stock and pistol grip on. Changing out the forearm stock, gast tube, gas block and front sight plus the threading of the muzzle is another level up in challenge. Some can do that themselves as well. I suppose if you want only 1 then buying the Arsenal rifle is the most expediant way to go.

It should be as reliable as any AK type weapon in as much as Ismash arsenal in Russia made the base weapon / receiver and barrel. On mounting optics there are some rail mounts that fit over the top cover and lock down to the rear tang bolt location.

http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/1-21-10/Rail_Assembled-650.jpg
http://www.krebscustom.com/PartsPages/KalashnikovParts.shtml

AK REAR SIGHT RECEIVER RAIL SYSTEM
CATALOG NUMBER 24
$295.00
http://www.krebscustom.com/ProductLine/Rail_System-AssembledLocked.shtml
A bit expensive but it mounts over bore center, locks down securely, flips up for easy top cover removal and cleaning / disassembly of the weapon. I think there's a similar product for less but can't remember the makers name. Kerbs gear and weapons are always top notch, none finer.

[Joeroe]

Thanks for the reply. I've been searching Krebs site. Looks like some nice stuff.

[imanaknut]

Welcome to the group !!! :welcome:

Sorry, but the Saiga is a great rifle so I would have a hard time trying to talk you out of it.

As to the Yugo M70, I just happen to like underfolders and have to tell you they do take some getting used to as their shooting position is different. I prefer the Chinese because their stock angles down so I don't have to rest my face on a cold piece of metal. I learned a long time ago how to shoot without welding my cheek to the stock, which just sounds painful. :wow:

[O.S.O.K.]

:welcome: to the board!

You have come to the wrong place to be talked out of buying a nice AK. :lool:

And those are quality rigs.

We don't like them here because of bad blood in our board history but k-var has the lengthened NATO buttstock that you want and it will match the existing furniture.

Looking forward to seeing the pics and the range report :)

[Joeroe]

k-var has the lengthened NATO buttstock that you want and it will match the existing furniture.

The SGL21-72 comes with a polymer NATO length plum stock and furniture and that is the closest thing I can find on k-var. I've looked pretty good and can't find anything NATO length in wood. I did find this http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDsite/IWDNEWRom_2.html but I think theirs are Warsaw length.

[FunkyPertwee]

Unless you already have a stockpile of 7.62 mags and ammo, or other rifles in the caliber, I might would go for 5.45 model instead.


You might try this for optics:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XRSCOMBO&name=Vortex+Strikefire+w%2f+RS+AKM+Mount+Package&groupid=64
https://www.aimsurplus.com/eos/images/product/xrssfcombo.jpg

[Joeroe]

Unless you already have a stockpile of 7.62 mags and ammo, or other rifles in the caliber, I might would go for 5.45 model instead.

Other than accuracy why would you recommend the 74 over the 47? Is the 74 way more accurate? I did a little (not much) research to compare the 2 and decided on the 47. Seems like ammo cost is similar.

BTW, The only gun I have right now is a Glock21. Not much experience with firearms. Oops typo, I meant glock 22.

[Schuetzenman]

Other than accuracy why would you recommend the 74 over the 47? Is the 74 way more accurate? I did a little (not much) research to compare the 2 and decided on the 47. Seems like ammo cost is similar.

BTW, The only gun I have right now is a Glock21. Not much experience with firearms.

Actually the surplus Russian, Bulgarian and Polish 5.45 x 39 ammo is probably running 11 to 12.5 cents a round. 7.62 x 39 is closer to 21 cents a round so about 2x the cost of the surplus. However the surplus is all corrosive primed. The 5.45 round or AKM is more accurate than the 7.62 or AK 47 style rifles. I've probably shot around 3 dozen of each caliber on paper from bagged benchrest. The 5.45 guns shoot groups that are handily sub 2.5 MOA virtually all the time. I have shot a few of them that would easily do sub 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. The typical 7.62 gun will be lucky to achieve 2.5 MOA and probably average closer to 3.5 MOA most of the time. Recoil is greater for the 7.62 gun though neither rifle has bad / heavy recoil. Magazines are easier to find for the 7.62 guns, but there are 5.45 magazines around and they do cost more than most 7.62 mags.

[FunkyPertwee]

Other than accuracy why would you recommend the 74 over the 47? Is the 74 way more accurate? I did a little (not much) research to compare the 2 and decided on the 47. Seems like ammo cost is similar.

BTW, The only gun I have right now is a Glock21. Not much experience with firearms.

You get more range out of the 5.45. My AKs are in 7.62, but there purpose for me is close range firepower. I've got other rifles for distance. If you don't already have a well varied gun collection, you might find it more useful for your main assault rifle to have a little more range.

[Joeroe]

Great!!!! Now I'm at a a cross road. From what I've read the 47 is more fun to shoot but then again shooting 400 rounds compared to 200 rounds would probably be even more fun. I'll have to do some thinking on this one. Anyone reload and if so around how many reloads does it take to make it worth the investment? Is there a big difference in cost between 5.45 and 7.62 when reloading? I would guess not. My step dad has everything to reload. Maybe I should find a bigger badder loader and talk him into buying it so I can buy his at a discounted step son rate.

It would be nice to own both and an ar15 one day but that may take a while. Half a** race car, rock crawler and now the gun sickness add up.

Thanks for all of the help guys. I appreciate it.

[Joeroe]

I just did a search and it looks like reloading doesn't really save any money on the 7.62 so there goes that idea.

[FunkyPertwee]

If this is a SHTF rifle, you may also want to consider the cost of "stockpiling" ammo. The '74 has the advantage there. Also, ammo is lighter and more can be carried, especially when you factor in the weight of composite '74 mags.

[Joeroe]

I'm leaning toward the 47. I'll just have to get something with more range in the future. There is still some time to change my mind.

Thanks for the help

[FunkyPertwee]

I'm leaning toward the 47. I'll just have to get something with more range in the future. There is still some time to change my mind.

Thanks for the help

I love a 7.62 AK. Go for it dude! :thumbsup:

[Joeroe]

I love a 7.62 AK. Go for it dude! :thumbsup:

You made some great points and I think the 74 would be the better choice but the kid in me always seems to win over the adult in me. It all started with a car sickness then a jeep sickness and now I'm afraid it's going to be a gun sickness. I may be older but that's not going to stop me from acting like a kid at least once a week.

[mitchntx]

FYI

Ammoman and AimSurplus have 7.62 Yugo at $.17/round and 5.45 Russian at $.13/round

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A76239Yugo&name=Yugoslavian+7.62x39+123grn+FMJ+15rd+box&groupid=39
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A54539R&name=Russian+5.45x39+53grn+FMJ+1080rd+Can&groupid=33

http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

[Schuetzenman]

The 5.45 ammo is as effective if not more so than the 7.62x39 round at down range distances. Up close the 7.62 has more energy but given the short stumpy bullet shape it looses speed and energy faster. Also consider that the average 5.45 rifle will shoot roups half the size of the 7.62 rifle. Therefore you will have a 2x greater chance to hit something that is 200+ yards away over the 7.62 weapon. Clearly if I was going to get into an AK system weapon at this time I would go for the 5.45 because; 1) Cheaper ammo 2) better accuracy 3) lighter ammo.

[Joeroe]

I'm starting to feel totally indecisive like my wife. Now I'm debating on getting 2 over the next year and I'll start with the 74. Maybe a Yugo or WASR 10 underfolder and a better quality ak74 like the sgl31 or maybe this http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct924.aspx . Anyone familiar with this RAK 74? I like the look of the wood furniture better than the poly, there're both made in Izmash and are both in the same price range. I just don't know much about the quality of work that is done to it once it is converted here in the states. According to what I've read arsenal conforms to the original Russian technology when doing their conversions and they use all new parts. Any opinions on Russian American armory company? Looks like they use all new parts but I wonder if there QC is on par with Aresenal. Maybe I should start another thread with this question. Time for me to do some more research.

I hope I'm not annoying you guys like my wife annoys me when we go out to eat. Should I get this or this? Then she gets the thing I didn't recommend after a 15 debate with herself.

[imanaknut]

The RAK-74 is an interesting rifle that someone forgot what they were doing when the built it. First being a Saiga variant it should be a great rifle.

My problems with it is that being a purist I ask why they used a threaded barrel (AKM) versus the threaded front sight more common, or even considered normal on an AK-74? And the butt stock should have the slots in it to indicate the 5.45x39 AK-74 as per Mr. K's instructions to be able to tell the two rifles apart in the dark!! They used the correct gas block, why not the two easy parts?

See, AKs become a sickness....

Oh, you talk about sinking money into race cars and now firearms. I used to race and had a car that we made competitive, and have to say that although fun, racing is a black hole for money. Firearms are not. Carefully bought and maintained firearms usually will always retain their value over time. Granted you will spend money on ammo which can be compared to fuel for the race car, but the firearm itself requires very low cost maintenance whereas the race car is... well you know! :D

[FunkyPertwee]

I would get the SGL and put '74 style wood on it if thats what I wanted, instead of getting the RAK-74, which I would feel compelled to replace its improper wood with proper wood anyway. I'd rather have my spares be proper polymer furniture than improper wood furniture, know what I mean?

How about this? If you like both calibers and you like both wood and polymer, then maybe get the SGL in 5.45 for the modern AK theme, and then get a 7.62 AKM with wood for the classic theme.

[FunkyPertwee]

Here you go, Joe. Pick one.

7.62x39 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1ASGL2161&name=Russian+Arsenal+SGL21+Saiga+7.62x39+Rifle&groupid=11)
5.45x39 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1ASGL3161&name=Russian+Arsenal+SGL31+Saiga+5.45x39+Rifle&groupid=11)

Here's some ammo.

7.62x39 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=39&name=7.62x39)
5.45x39 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=33&name=5.45x39)

Mags:

7.62x39 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MAK47E30&name=Surplus+European+Steel+AK47+7.62x39+30rd+Maga zines&groupid=15)
5.45x39 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MAK74C30&name=Surplus++30rd+AK74+5.45x39+Magazines&groupid=15)

[Joeroe]

Well you guys talked the adult in me to go for the 31 but the kid in me decided not to wait so I just ordered a SGL31-62. It should be here on Wednesday or Thursday. I just need to order some magazines and ammo. My local shop didn't have either and their prices were high so I'll take your advise on places to buy and order some ammo. I think I'm going to order 2 30 round Bulgarian circle10 magazines.

Thanks again for all of the help. I feel a lot better about my purchase knowing I did my research and got good advise from a bunch of guys that have first hand experience with this platform. I'll post some pics when she gets here.

[Joeroe]

Any opinion on this deal http://www.rrcfirearms.com/products.cfm?PID=24#firstfold ? Not sure about the seller and buying military surplus magazines.

[FunkyPertwee]

Any opinion on this deal http://www.rrcfirearms.com/products.cfm?PID=24#firstfold ? Not sure about the seller and buying military surplus magazines.

That seems like an alright deal, but I would just stick with AIM surplus, which I linked above, because of the great service I've had with them in the past.

I would have ten mags and no less than 2K of ammo.

Oh, and where did you order your weapon from? You got the plum version?

BTW, I'm excited for you. I know I'd be tickled to have a badass AK-74 on its way to me.

[Schuetzenman]

Any opinion on this deal http://www.rrcfirearms.com/products.cfm?PID=24#firstfold ? Not sure about the seller and buying military surplus magazines.

That looks like an alright deal, 14.50 per mag and a pouch in the bargain. Two pouch set ups and 8 mags will get you started nicely. I always have 20 high cap mags for every rifle having lived through the Clinton era ban on mags and weapons like you just orederd. You won't ever use 20 mags most likely, but it's always good to have extras just in case another ban comes along. Then the value on such things will double overnight if it happens again. Given the price of the surplus if you can afford it, each month order a 2 can crate of it each month for about a year. Then you should have a life time supply to support your weapon. Just stack them in a closet or a corner of your basement. They won't take up much space and should supplies dry up they could become quite valuable.

[Joeroe]

That seems like an alright deal, but I would just stick with AIM surplus, which I linked above, because of the great service I've had with them in the past.

I would have ten mags and no less than 2K of ammo.

Oh, and where did you order your weapon from? You got the plum version?

BTW, I'm excited for you. I know I'd be tickled to have a badass AK-74 on its way to me.

Yes, I did get the plum and I bought it from a local gun shop (sovereign arms). I paid a little more ($830+tax) there but I also get my conceal and carry class for half price and some free range time. After that I actually paid less than any of the deals I could find online after transfer costs. Unfortunately the range time is only good for my glock. 40 cal is the max at this place. If I shot the ak there it would probably blow holes in the building.

I took your advise on where to buy ammo and bought 1080 rounds to get me started. I'll order 4 of the mags you recommended tonight for now. Next month I'll order some more mags and 2 more cans since I just dumped soo much money today.

[FunkyPertwee]

Also don't forget to learn how to clean after corrosive ammo. Its easy but you got to do it.

I squirt the gun out with water, then use hoppe's #9 on the bore and bolt and gas system, then CLP everything.

[Joeroe]

That looks like an alright deal, 14.50 per mag and a pouch in the bargain. Two pouch set ups and 8 mags will get you started nicely. I always have 20 high cap mags for every rifle having lived through the Clinton era ban on mags and weapons like you just orederd. You won't ever use 20 mags most likely, but it's always good to have extras just in case another ban comes along. Then the value on such things will double overnight if it happens again. Given the price of the surplus if you can afford it, each month order a 2 can crate of it each month for about a year. Then you should have a life time supply to support your weapon. Just stack them in a closet or a corner of your basement. They won't take up much space and should supplies dry up they could become quite valuable.

That sounds like some good advise. I'll try to stick to that and get a good stockpile. Since you guys were so helpful I went ahead and made a payment to become a contributor. The info you guys gave is worth alot more than the $20 IMO but that's what I have right now. Im a member of quite a few forums and I must say you guys are on the top of my list when it comes to being helpful and friendly.

Thanks again

[Joeroe]

Also don't forget to learn how to clean after corrosive ammo. Its easy but you got to do it.

I squirt the gun out with water, then use hoppe's #9 on the bore and bolt and gas system, then CLP everything.

The guys at the shop told me to clean the breach face after each round for the first 20 shots (hopefully the terminology is right). Is that right? Sorry but I have no idea what CLP means. Here's my guess Clean Lube and Polish. I don't have a problem with cleaning. I enjoy cleaning and oiling my glock even if I only shoot 200 rounds.

[Joeroe]

That seems like an alright deal, but I would just stick with AIM surplus, which I linked above, because of the great service I've had with them in the past.

I would have ten mags and no less than 2K of ammo.

Oh, and where did you order your weapon from? You got the plum version?

BTW, I'm excited for you. I know I'd be tickled to have a badass AK-74 on its way to me.


Looks like AIM is out of the mags right now so I went with the mags from the link I posted. I also signed up to be notified when more are available.

[FunkyPertwee]

The guys at the shop told me to clean the breach face after each round for the first 20 shots (hopefully the terminology is right). Is that right? Sorry but I have no idea what CLP means. Here's my guess Clean Lube and Polish. I don't have a problem with cleaning. I enjoy cleaning and oiling my glock even if I only shoot 200 rounds.

CLP is a multipurpose oil which Cleans Lubes and Protects against rust. Its an all purpose type deal.

Just clean when you get done shooting. Certainly don't clean in the middle of shooting, it would be a waste. Just remember that whether you shoot one round or 1000 in one day, you've got to clean before putting the rifle up. Just think of not cleaning it as leaving salt water down the barrel.


Looks like AIM is out of the mags right now so I went with the mags from the link I posted. I also signed up to be notified when more are available.

Cool. Four mags ought to get you through any trouble your likely to encounter.

[Joeroe]

I found what it think is a good video on disassembling, cleaning and lubeing and ak. This should be good to get me started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMEnDf3WrIA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[FunkyPertwee]

I found what it think is a good video on disassembling, cleaning and lubeing and ak. This should be good to get me started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMEnDf3WrIA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I didn't want to watch that whole thing, but here is a good short video on how to clean after corrosive ammo.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFKCTfKENc

[Joeroe]

Thanks for the link. I've been very busy and the video is slow to load so I'll check it out when I have more time. I live in the boonies and can't get anything better than 1.5-3 Meg Internet here.

I'm very excited my SGL, ammo and mags should all arrive tomorrow. I'm working nights tomorrow so I probably won't be able to get the SGL until thursday. Looks like I'll have to improvize on opening the can of ammo. I didn't realize the can opener only comes with a 2 can order. That's what happens when you rush and don't read the plain easy to read details on an order.

[FunkyPertwee]

I've used a flat head screwdriver and a hammer to open the cans, by tapping the blade against the inside edge of the lid, about 3/4 the way around until you can peel it back. Just don't cut yourself on the edge as you hammer through it, or ignite any primers with the screwdriver.

[Joeroe]

Watched the video. Looks pretty easy with that method. I was thinking I would start with a screwdriver like you mentioned and finish off with some tin snips.

The SGL came in today so I'll be picking it up tomorrow morning.:woot:

[FunkyPertwee]

Watched the video. Looks pretty easy with that method. I was thinking I would start with a screwdriver like you mentioned and finish off with some tin snips.

The SGL came in today so I'll be picking it up tomorrow morning.:woot:

Awesome!

If you can, I'm sure we'd all like to see a picture of your first AK.

[gpwasr10]

After some research I think I want an arsenal SGL21. I like that it has a Russian barrel/receiver, optics rail and seems to be a quality piece. I really haven't heard anything bad about it other than it being overpriced. I don't care for the furniture but I'm hoping someone makes a NATO length furniture set in the original AK color for it. Before I buy I thought I'd give you guys a chance to talk me out of it. I do like the Yugo m70 but don't think the under folder stock would be comfortable for a guy my size and I want the ability to mount optics.

Since I'm new to the AK world and you guys have hands on experience please tell me if you think I'm making the wrong decision. It will be used primarily as a range gun but if the sh** hits the fan one of these days it will be good to know I have a reliable weapon that is fairly accurate.

I'm hoping I never need to mount optics but I do want the option. I would like it to look as much like an old school AK as possible. I'm usually a function over form type of guy but I love the way an original AK looks.

Thanks

M-70 has a fullstock version too....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/dudemaestro/100_2323.jpg

[Schuetzenman]

If you order two cans of ammo which makes a full case, AIM is supposed to toss in the can opener. The crates come with one opener screwed into a recess in the lid usually. Over the years of dealing ammo I must have 6 of them laying around in various tool boxes.

Yes, let me just restate ALL 5.45 ammo that is surplus military ammo is corrosive primed. Cleaning for perchorate primer fowling is essential to prevent rusting the weapon. If it has a chromed bore and chamber those won't rust but everything else on the weapon could. I would suggest full disassembly of the bolt and clean the firing pin channel and pin, then lube.

Cleaning every shot for the first 20 shots is a precision bolt action rifle kind of thing, not for AK rifles. You wouldn't be cleaning the breech face which in this case would be the face of the bolt, you would be cleaning the bore and chamber. This is supposed to be a break in a quality barrel thing. But it does not apply to a chromed bore weapon in any case. Shade tree gun owners that heard this from a guy who heard it from another guy that read it in an article from some gun rag magazine .... Oye!

There is a plethora of ignorance about firearms form handling them safely to cleaning them and maintaining them. What I call "Old Bubb's tales", like "Old Wive's Tales". Often bad information is passed from shooter to shooter word of mouth when it comes to firearms. Ok rant mode off now. Like was said already, shoot, finish shooting, then clean the weapon from A to Z.

[Joeroe]

everything is in. Here are some pics.

Looks like ill have to upload to flickr later for bigger pics.

[FunkyPertwee]

Thats great! :thumbsup:

[Schuetzenman]

Well, from what I can see it looks very nice! :thumbsup:

[Joeroe]

Finally going to the range tomorrow. I know where to set the sights for 100 meters to 1000 but I'm not sure where to set it for let's say 150,175 and so on. I'm guessing under 50 would roundndown and anything over round up. I'm also guessing 1 click before 1 is 50 meters.

[FunkyPertwee]

The one under the 100 meter mark is the general battlefield setting. Its meant to be good for hitting a human torso out to 300 meters, if I'm not mistaken.

[Joeroe]

Mine has 2 clicks before 100 meters so there is a click between battle and 100 meters. I'm guessing it's 50 meters. Since I have no experience with long guns I guess I'll start with 25 meters set at battle and move out to 50 then to 100 if I can hit the target at 50 meters.

[Schuetzenman]

A 25 yard zero is a pretty good way to set your rifle for a 200 yard zero as a general rule.

Battle setting is 300 meters on the AK sight. If you zeroed at 100 yards / meters the difference isn't that great at 50 yards, it will be high, but not enough you would miss a Man target.

The sights have a couple notches between whole 100 meter markings so if you knew the range to be between say 200 and 300 meters you would set your sight riser accordingly, somewhere betweedn 200 and 300.

[Joeroe]

I finally got to take it to the range. I'm sure the results are pretty bad but I did a lot better than I thought I would considering I've never shot a rifle before. Each target was a 30 round clip and the one at 75 yards was rushed. I had to take 30 shots in 3 minutes. The first 25 yard try was standing and keeping it steady was a challenge. I need to get someone with experience and binoculars to go with me and give me some tips. It would also be nice to lock it down and do a proper sight in. I had a blast. :woot:

Here are the pic's. Pics are fixed. Forgot to make targets public.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67153874@N03/sets/72157627680318131/

[FunkyPertwee]

Get back out there and take your time and you'll improve. With the cheap ammo you can get a lot of practice in.

It won't be long and you'll be keeping a tight group at 100 yards, so don't stress about it. Just get back out there, be safe, and get in as much practice as possible. Maybe try loading 5 rounds at a time to force yourself to slow down.

[Joeroe]

Thanks for the kind words but I'm not stressed at all about it. I know practice made me much better with my glock and it will do the same with the AK. The only problem is that I can't see where I'm hitting the target so I can't compensate. I need to get some coaching and Binoculars. A proper sight in would also help. Looks like I need to get together with my stepfather.

[atypicalparkie]

Man, that looks like a fantastic 47, and to their mil-specs I'd reckon it'd be totally bullet proof (sorry for the pun!). I think this one comes top my list, I've been mulling over ALL the variants available for more than a year. It'd be my 1st AK-style and maybe only one I'll ever get (hah! famous last words... I know they're addictive) though it's at the very top of my price range (unless the crazy deals come back??). But daaaaang, SO much you get for the $ on this one. Double-stack mags, no worries finding them or ammo anytime, anywhere. Been built (or at least fabricated) from this same place for 60+ years, the original. I gotta have one just for the history (and of course massive fun up in the woods).:thumbsup:

[atypicalparkie]

...and this is my second. Woo!

[Joeroe]

I finally got to take it out to the woods and run over 500 rounds through it with some friends. It performed flawlessly but it does shoot to the left a little. It was also shooting low but we adjusted and fixed that. The manual says to wack the front sight with a hammer to adjust left-right. Is this how you guys make L/R adjustments? It doesn't sound like a good way to make a fine adjustment. FYI, at thirty yards an experienced shooter I know was so impressed with his group that he kept the target and said he was going to buy a SGL for himself.

Rapid fire was fun but cleaning the piston was a PITA. Who knows maybe I'm just being to meticulous with my cleaning.

[Joeroe]

I just figured out how to make the adjustment with a sight tool. Since the finish on this gun isnt the greatest I think I'll put a towel between the tool and the gun when I make the adjustment.

[Joeroe]

I am extremely happy with my SGL. After around 1200 rounds I lost the firing pin retainer when I was cleaning the bolt. After some searching I found it, reinstalled it and haven't had any problems since. Other than the retainer falling out it has functioned flawlessly. I've ran around 2000 rounds with 8 different surplus magazines with no malfunctions at all. I'm so happy with this rifle that I'm going to order a SGL21-94 tomorrow. http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/product.php?productid=60&cat=&page=1

I have switched to black furniture, added a Russian issue bayonet and a Kashtan 1P78 scope. I added some updated pictures to flicker if you want to take a peek.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67153874@N03/sets/72157627680318131/

Thanks again for the help. I'm definitely hooked and hope to have around 4 AK's and a colt SP6940 within the next year. I might even take this one to a gunsmith and have a Russian side folder added.