This is why we should change our foriegn policy and defense strategy...

[O.S.O.K.]

http://news.yahoo.com/afghanistan-back-pakistan-wars-u-karzai-023316217.html

"ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Afghanistan would support Pakistan in case of military conflict between Pakistan and the United States, Afghan President Hamid Karzai said in an interview to a private Pakistani TV channel broadcast on Saturday."

--------------------------------

Can you believe that fucker?

But this isn't all that unusual is it? No.

The PM of Iraq told obummer just last week to go fish on immunity for our soldiers there, so we're just pulling out.

The US right now and as long as we have obummer as our POTUS, will get zero respect.

But on a larger scale, I think we should pull our bases in all but the most essential locations and re-invest a good portion of the savings into carrier groups and more unmanned aircraft systems which seem to be working very well for us.

It would also allow us to re-deploy the troops along our southern border and establish bases all along it. Each base would have it's chunk of the border to monitor.

[mriddick]

It would also allow us to re-deploy the troops along our southern border and establish bases all along it. Each base would have it's chunk of the border to monitor.
I've been saying this for about 5 years now. I truly think it's an idea whose time has come.

[O.S.O.K.]

I bet Cain would be good for that.

[Warthogg]

My surprise is zero. (Excepting that Karzai spoke the truth so publicly.)

In an every day practical sense there is no specific Afghanistan or Pakistan......just lines drawn on a map by clueless Europeans. For example the Pashtun are the largest group in the Afghan. The ancestral home of the Pashtun's is in what is now called Pakistan.



Wart

[Warthogg]

And we, the US should not be surprised for very recent reasons. We f****d over Pakistan and Afghanistan as soon as the Soviets were forced out of Afghanistan.

In their place never would I trust the US .gov. In fact, as an American citizen I don't trust the US .gov. In the Middle East and Central Asia not one country excepting Israel* trusts the US.


Wart

* Israel can trust only because AIPAC buys the Congressional creatures necessary.

[Justin]

I bet Cain would be good for that.


I would bet more that Ron Paul would go for that.

[Warthogg]

Cain would have to check with his masters at the Federal Reserve where Ron Paul would have them shot. Too bad RP is not electable.


Wart

[FunkyPertwee]

Cain would have to check with his masters at the Federal Reserve where Ron Paul would have them shot. Too bad RP is not electable.


Wart

What did electable ever get us? A progressive Republican from Texas and McShit-Stain who turned out to be UN-electable even after the GOP sacrificed its other candidates for the sake of "electability".

This time I'm voting for who I prefer regardless of electability.

[Warthogg]

What did electable ever get us? A progressive Republican from Texas and McShit-Stain who turned out to be UN-electable even after the GOP sacrificed its other candidates for the sake of "electability".

This time I'm voting for who I prefer regardless of electability.

Agree with all.

In Oklahoma we are prevented from writing in a candidate so my only option may be to not vote for president.


Wart

[O.S.O.K.]

People were not nearly as activated ahead of the 2008 elections as they are now. Now, we see a very real and very obvious influence from the "Tea Party" (just a name given to include activated, conservative/libertarian Americans).

Vote for your preferrence in the primaries.

Vote for the one that wins afterwards.

It's as simple as that.

Tell me that you would rather we have another 4 years of barry than say, worst case - Mitt Romney?

I don't want Romney - but if it's him or obummer? Seriously... I'm not voting for a third party guy that will only take votes from Romney - its just political suicide. Do I like that? No. But that's the reality.

Don't be like a liberal and do things based soley on the "ideal".

[Warthogg]

People were not nearly as activated ahead of the 2008 elections as they are now. Now, we see a very real and very obvious influence from the "Tea Party" (just a name given to include activated, conservative/libertarian Americans).

Vote for your preferrence in the primaries.

Vote for the one that wins afterwards.

It's as simple as that.

Tell me that you would rather we have another 4 years of barry than say, worst case - Mitt Romney?

I don't want Romney - but if it's him or obummer? Seriously... I'm not voting for a third party guy that will only take votes from Romney - its just political suicide. Do I like that? No. But that's the reality.

Don't be like a liberal and do things based soley on the "ideal".

I will not vote for 'it' but I would rather have 4 more years of Barry than Romney or Cain with a Republican Congress. What is terrifying to me is either of those two ass wipes in the presidency with a Republican House and Senate. The remaining destruction needed could be done probably in 12 months.

Leave Barry in with a Republican House and Senate and he's mostly neutered. Keep the elected fools, thieves and liars grid locked and pray for a comet.......a big ass comet that hits DC head on.


Wart

[American Rage]

What did electable ever get us? A progressive Republican from Texas and McShit-Stain who turned out to be UN-electable even after the GOP sacrificed its other candidates for the sake of "electability".

This time I'm voting for who I prefer regardless of electability.

That's what all the Ron Paul supporters did in 2008. Thats how we got 0 to be our prez.

Please rethink your strategy. I'll take a crappy rino like Romney any day over an outright commie like 0

[FunkyPertwee]

That's what all the Ron Paul supporters did in 2008. Thats how we got 0 to be our prez.

Please rethink your strategy. I'll take a crappy rino like Romney any day over an outright commie like 0

Nope. If America chooses to become socialist, then we get what we deserve.

Settling for the electable for the last century has simply pushed the electable into socialism. Thats what electable is right now: mildly socialist. No fucking way am I supporting that.

BTW, I voted for McCain last time. Did that help us out at all?

[tank_monkey]

Leave Barry in with a Republican House and Senate and he's mostly neutered. Keep the elected fools, thieves and liars grid locked and pray for a comet.......a big ass comet that hits DC head on.


Apparently you've been ignoring all of the BIG CEOs and big company chiefs (no, not the Wall Street Ones, but guys like Steve Wynn and even that Liberal Steve Jobs, both of whose companies never took federal bailout money) who said that OBAMA is poison to business. I don't want another four years of job loss. I don't want the U.S. to fall so far behind everyone else that the dollar is about as valuable as the PESO. That would be disastrous. Seriously. Think before you write. Oh wait, Wart doesn't do that ;) LOL

This is a TROUBLING TREND!!!!
http://lonelyconservative.com/2011/10/wow-who-knew-rwanda-is-a-better-place-to-start-a-business-than-the-us/

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes, please do think about what you're doing...

If we get Romney and a repub house and senate - the house is going to push some very conservative stuff and Romney will sign it. He's not going to veto tax restructuring or tax cuts. He's not going to veto spending cuts...

Obummer would basically use every available tool at his disposal to bring us down.

We need the SOB out very badly - he's really damaging our country.

[Warthogg]

Yes, please do think about what you're doing...

If we get Romney and a repub house and senate - the house is going to push some very conservative stuff and Romney will sign it. He's not going to veto tax restructuring or tax cuts. He's not going to veto spending cuts...

Obummer would basically use every available tool at his disposal to bring us down.

We need the SOB out very badly - he's really damaging our country.


.....he's really damaging our country.


Yes you are correct without question. However, Barry has not done nearly as much damage as did Dubya Bush.



Wart

[Warthogg]

Apparently you've been ignoring all of the BIG CEOs and big company chiefs (no, not the Wall Street Ones, but guys like Steve Wynn and even that Liberal Steve Jobs, both of whose companies never took federal bailout money) who said that OBAMA is poison to business. I don't want another four years of job loss. I don't want the U.S. to fall so far behind everyone else that the dollar is about as valuable as the PESO. That would be disastrous. Seriously. Think before you write. Oh wait, Wart doesn't do that ;) LOL

This is a TROUBLING TREND!!!!
http://lonelyconservative.com/2011/10/wow-who-knew-rwanda-is-a-better-place-to-start-a-business-than-the-us/


That would be disastrous. Seriously. Think before you write. Oh wait, Wart doesn't do that ;) LOL


Remarkably prescient to know the thought process of another.


Wart

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes you are correct without question. However, Barry has not done nearly as much damage as did Dubya Bush.



Wart

Bush made his decisions - none were designed to turn this country to socialism though IMHO. You can argue that Iraq was wrong... ect. Tarp one was definatley a mistake IMHO and of course, growing the damned government was BS.

However, Obummer is actively working the cloward-piven plan. Big difference.

And we can't afford to have such a fool in charge when things go south - and I fully expect them to go south in the next 5 years.

[El Laton Caliente]

Four more years of Barry and there will not be a 2016 election...

[O.S.O.K.]

Exactly my point. I't really would be dear leader - and revolution.

[Warthogg]

Quote Originally Posted by Warthogg View Post
Yes you are correct without question. However, Barry has not done nearly as much damage as did Dubya Bush.



Wart



Bush made his decisions - none were designed to turn this country to socialism though IMHO. You can argue that Iraq was wrong... ect. Tarp one was definatley a mistake IMHO and of course, growing the damned government was BS.

However, Obummer is actively working the cloward-piven plan. Big difference.

And we can't afford to have such a fool in charge when things go south - and I fully expect them to go south in the next 5 years.


You can argue that Iraq was wrong...



SOOOOOO WRONG.

The US invaded Iraq for one of two reasons....actually could be both:

1. Revenge - Saddam tried to kill Bush the elder in Quwait.

2. At the behest of the House of Saud*.

At the very minimum, the ruling family of Arabia approved the invasion.


Tarp one was definatley a mistake IMHO


Not if we understand TARP was a political slush fund for Barry.

A mistake only if we believed the purpose of TARP was to buy FOURTEEN toxic mortgages from banks.


Wart


*The House of Bush and the House of Saud go back decades.

[Warthogg]

Quote Originally Posted by O.S.O.K. View Post
Bush made his decisions - none were designed to turn this country to socialism though IMHO.


The Bush Presidency:

TARP
Bailed out the UAW
Bailed out the auto companies
Bailed out Wall Street
Bailed out insurance companies
Bailed out US banks
Bailed out foreign banks
GMAC went to sleep one Sunday night a finance company and woke up Monday morning a bank so they too could be bailed out.

That list is just a quick one from memory.

Bush was a Progressive just as Barry Obama is a progressive. Only the accent is different.



Wart

[Warthogg]

Originally Posted by O.S.O.K. View Post


However, Obummer is actively working the cloward-piven plan.


YES without question Barry took up where Dubya left off.


Wart

[Warthogg]

Originally Posted by O.S.O.K. View Post
.

And we can't afford to have such a fool in charge when things go south - and I fully expect them to go south in the next 5 years.


I simply don't know what to say here.
I suppose the belief is that Cain or Romney - the two seemingly most likely at this point - will be better than Bush and Obama ??? I harbor no such illusions.


Wart

[Justin]

Let's not forget that Bush also pushed for amnesty, and Obama is doing the same.

[alismith]

To move back to the central theme of this thread, I found this to be interesting:

And he (the transitional government leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil) laid out a vision for the post-Gadhafi future with an Islamist tint, saying Islamic Sharia law would be the "basic source" of legislation and existing laws that contradict the teachings of Islam would be nullified. In a gesture that showed his own piety, he urged Libyans not to express their joy by firing guns in the air, but rather to chant "Allahu Akbar," or God is Great.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45004684/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/

It seems all we've helped do is change one Islamist for another and the end result will be that we will be no better off than with Gadhafi.

No matter what we do in the ME, it's going to backfire on us. We should either nuke them and start over, or just get out and let them do their own thing by themselves. Anything else, and we are just wasting our time, money, and efforts, while making more enemies.

[Warthogg]

To move back to the central theme of this thread, I found this to be interesting:

And he (the transitional government leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil) laid out a vision for the post-Gadhafi future with an Islamist tint, saying Islamic Sharia law would be the "basic source" of legislation and existing laws that contradict the teachings of Islam would be nullified. In a gesture that showed his own piety, he urged Libyans not to express their joy by firing guns in the air, but rather to chant "Allahu Akbar," or God is Great.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45004684/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/

It seems all we've helped do is change one Islamist for another and the end result will be that we will be no better off than with Gadhafi.

No matter what we do in the ME, it's going to backfire on us. We should either nuke them and start over, or just get out and let them do their own thing by themselves. Anything else, and we are just wasting our time, money, and efforts, while making more enemies.



And he (the transitional government leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil) laid out a vision for the post-Gadhafi future with an Islamist tint, saying Islamic Sharia law would be the "basic source" of legislation and existing laws that contradict the teachings of Islam would be nullified.

I listened to a bright Libyan woman explain their 'democracy' would be based on Sharia law.



No matter what we do in the ME, it's going to backfire on us.....



That is true BUT only because US policy in the Middle East is for the benefit of Israel and not the US.



....or just get out and let them do their own thing by themselves. Anything else, and we are just wasting our time, money, and efforts, while making more enemies.


SUPERBLY stated !!

Since Europe dumped the care and feeding of Israel on the US in 1967 we have been active and successful in your 'wasting time, money and effort points and imminently successful in making enemies.


Wart

[O.S.O.K.]

:lool:

Wow, may I suggest that you have your blood pressure checked? You might need some meds for that.

Just sayin. ;)

[T2K]

I've long advocated a policy of "engaged isolationism". Maintain forward deployed bases in the UK (EU), Japan (E Asia), Singapore (SE Asia), and Qatar (ME). Close all other bases and redeploy forces to one of the above mentioned locations or CONUS. Defend the southern border with the NG and active duty troops.

Understand that America's interests are not served by picking a dog in every fight in ever garbage pile in the world. Saddam would have sold us oil, so did Qaddafi. Let them sort their own domestic politics out. Use electonic and human intelligence to watch for terrorist threats and strike wherever needed, whenever needed. Don't try and take the moral high ground, just use realpolitik to act in our best interests.

[Warthogg]

I've long advocated a policy of "engaged isolationism". Maintain forward deployed bases in the UK (EU), Japan (E Asia), Singapore (SE Asia), and Qatar (ME). Close all other bases and redeploy forces to one of the above mentioned locations or CONUS. Defend the southern border with the NG and active duty troops.

Understand that America's interests are not served by picking a dog in every fight in ever garbage pile in the world. Saddam would have sold us oil, so did Qaddafi. Let them sort their own domestic politics out. Use electonic and human intelligence to watch for terrorist threats and strike wherever needed, whenever needed. Don't try and take the moral high ground, just use realpolitik to act in our best interests.

Good try but I see a couple of deal-breaker errors in your thinking:

1 Not enough of us killed.
2. Not enough trillions spent.

Work on that thought and get back with us.



Wart

[Warthogg]

:lool:

Wow, may I suggest that you have your blood pressure checked? You might need some meds for that.

Just sayin. ;)

BP 103 over 67...pulse rate 63.

For years I've watched AIPAC force the thieves and incompetents in DC subvert the interests of my country - the USA - to the interests of Israel.


Wart

[O.S.O.K.]

Without getting into a protracted debate about the specfics, let's just agree that we need to change our foriegn policy in a direction of pulling back and covering our own interests.

I think that's something everyone can get behind.

Let's spend our resources on things that actually advance our national security and enhance our economy.

We are sending foriegn aid to China for God's sake! China! What idiocy is that?

And sorry that I am hopeful that a Herman Cain will be different than Geo Bush and dear leader.

Mitt Romney I have a much harder time defending -he would be better than obummer but to what degree.... not enough, I agree.

[Warthogg]

Let's spend our resources on things that actually advance our national security and enhance our economy.



And you will be fortunate to survive when the NSA reads the above subversive thoughts !!


Wart

[Warthogg]

Without getting into a protracted debate about the specfics, let's just agree that we need to change our foriegn policy in a direction of pulling back and covering our own interest.

An approach sorta like this:


I've long advocated a policy of "engaged isolationism". Maintain forward deployed bases in the UK (EU), Japan (E Asia), Singapore (SE Asia), and Qatar (ME). Close all other bases and redeploy forces to one of the above mentioned locations or CONUS. Defend the southern border with the NG and active duty troops.

Understand that America's interests are not served by picking a dog in every fight in ever garbage pile in the world. Saddam would have sold us oil, so did Qaddafi. Let them sort their own domestic politics out. Use electonic and human intelligence to watch for terrorist threats and strike wherever needed, whenever needed. Don't try and take the moral high ground, just use realpolitik to act in our best interests.


Wart