Why does wood turn black when it's dented?

[tank_monkey]

This question not only goes for old Military stocks for rifles like the K98 or the SMLE, but also I noticed a recent chair that had parts of it turn black or really dark in the dents, scuffs and dings. Same damage as an old Milsurp rifle stock.

Anyone know WHY wood does this? Can you fix it? Or would you have to sand so much layers off that it wouldn't be worth it?

[Schuetzenman]

I can only speculate. A dent is a compression of the grain structure. I theorize by packing wood grain together closer it appears darker because it's reflective value is lessened. The best way to deal with a dent in a stock or other wood would be to swell it out by steaming. Take a wet wash cloth or other rag and place it over the dent. Apply a steam iron on high to the wet cloth and iron around on the cloth. It should drive moisture into the wood and cause the dent to raise up. This generally will require a full refinishing of the wood.

[El Jefe]

It really doesn't. Tho a dent or scratch will collect dirt and look dark. Having spent 30+ years as a cabinet and furniture maker, I've seen several species with dents, scratches and other wounds come in from the mill. Those areas were the same color as the rest of the board.

[Cypher]

It could affect the finish and reflect less light making it look darker. If you take a unfinished piece of wood and dent it it doesn't get darker.

[old Grump]

Yep, grease and oil from your sweaty meathooks, A little soap and water and a lot of elbow grease will clear it right up. Or you can do like I do and use sandpaper.

[Kadmos]

Yep grime. Try a bit of lemon oil to clean it first. If that doesn't work go for triple ought of finer steel wool, use lightly and it will "polish" rather than "sand", plus it gets in the crevices better. Saves you from having to refinish.

Personally unless it's really bad I would leave it, a bit a character on an old gun and most refinish jobs end up looking like crap.

[deth502]

It really doesn't. Tho a dent or scratch will collect dirt and look dark. Having spent 30+ years as a cabinet and furniture maker, I've seen several species with dents, scratches and other wounds come in from the mill. Those areas were the same color as the rest of the board.

bingo. especially on something like a rifle stock, which is mostly all smooth convex surfaces, when just about every square inch gets handled, it gets abraded and cleaned by hands handling, rubbing against a shirt when slung, ect. a dip dosent get this abrasive handling, but then also acts as a space for the dirt to collect.

ue your old furnoture as an example. like that chair. its dark in the dents. also , if it has spindles on the back, look at the convex areas of the spindles that get rubbed by your back every time you sit, they will be ligh and clean, but any cuts in the design of teh spindle, the inside corners will al be dark just like teh dents. also, the bottoms of the spindles where they meet the chair at a sharp angle, where no part of your body actually touches when sitting, will also be dark.

[tank_monkey]

Just perusing gunbroker and saw a well used rifle auction with pics. Just a random auction. Don't know the seller, but I liked that he had detailed pics that matched what I was talking about.

Stuff like THIS is what I'm talking about. Fixable? :)

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/258679000/258679893/pix291291566.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/258679000/258679893/pix450365773.jpg

[old Grump]

Fixable, remove all metal hardware and strip the wood to begin with.

Some of those dents can be steamed out, even if they don't come out all the way they will look better.

[Kadmos]

Fixable? :)


Leave it. That rifle isn't for you.

Yeah you could steam *some* of the dents out, but it would still look extremely battle scarred.

Yeah you could sand it and make it fairly "pretty" or at least what some people would call "pretty", but it would very much look like a refinished rifle that would still likely have some dents.

Personally on that rifle I would maybe give it a light cleaning and then leave it alone, it looks awesome, a true battle rifle that really went there and barely managed to come back.

If it ain't for you, then let someone who would really love it have it.

Plenty of refinished ones out there, those that look like they saw battle are getting rarer.

[Cypher]

Leave it. That rifle isn't for you.

Yeah you could steam *some* of the dents out, but it would still look extremely battle scarred.

Yeah you could sand it and make it fairly "pretty" or at least what some people would call "pretty", but it would very much look like a refinished rifle that would still likely have some dents.

Personally on that rifle I would maybe give it a light cleaning and then leave it alone, it looks awesome, a true battle rifle that really went there and barely managed to come back.

If it ain't for you, then let someone who would really love it have it.

Plenty of refinished ones out there, those that look like they saw battle are getting rarer.

I agree, I think it adds a lot of character to the rifle. Maybe just a light clean and polish if it needs it but other than that it looks unique IMO.

[bum_whisperer]

Fixable? :)

Yes, you can ruin it by removing the history.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

If it's a French rifle, it's because it was not only dropped but probably shit on by the same guy.

[old Grump]

Call me a heathen but fixing it doesn't take away the history except to antique purists. If it was 20 years old instead of 60 or 70 you wouldn't have batted an eye lash at stripping, steaming sanding sealing and finishing or painting. If it's that important to you to hang onto the warts and wrinkles which may have been picked at Bastogne or Desmoine Iowa then buy a replacement stock and hang this one up in a bag in the back of your closet.

Me, I don't mind an occasional bump or scratch but pretty works for me too and might make the stock last longer.

[American Rage]

It really doesn't. Tho a dent or scratch will collect dirt and look dark. Having spent 30+ years as a cabinet and furniture maker, I've seen several species with dents, scratches and other wounds come in from the mill. Those areas were the same color as the rest of the board.

I've always took an interested in wood working. You should show us some pics of your work! Please:)

[Kadmos]

Call me a heathen but fixing it doesn't take away the history except to antique purists.

You're a heathen.

Fixing is different than refinishing. Fixing is more a matter of function, not aesthetics. Some new springs, or a firing pin isn't going to erase the history of the gun. But stripping off the old finish, sanding the hell out of it, which that gun would require, and then refinishing it, usually done poorly with the wrong types of finish really does take something significant away from it.

Of course there are things that you can alter and completely refinish, people do it to old cars all the time. But even on some of those it just wouldn't be right...you don't paint an old Duesenberg neon green and put spinners on it. Sure it might need new paint or serious refinishing to stop it from rusting into oblivion.

But on an old military rifle, its story is its service, and that story is shown in its scars.

If we were talking about a 20 year old deer rifle that has seen better days, sure.. go ahead and refinish.

[old Grump]

You're a heathen.So noted, I used to get called that and more when I worked for the Historical Society. It was always a tug of war between my boss and me, he say make it look like it could be used today. I would do that and he say dammit you make it look new. I say well that's what it look like when they were using it. Me wonders why they fire me. :wondering:

[Kadmos]

So noted, I used to get called that and more when I worked for the Historical Society. It was always a tug of war between my boss and me, he say make it look like it could be used today. I would do that and he say dammit you make it look new. I say well that's what it look like when they were using it. Me wonders why they fire me. :wondering:


So this was your work, with the duct tape?
http://ducttapegenius.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/0MFM-DuctTapeVenus1-394x500.jpg

[old Grump]

Silly Wabbit, Duct tape wasn't invented yet when I was working for the Hysterical....er Historical Society. Duct tape wasn't put on the market till the 20's. Dadburn whopper munching kids.

:coffee:

Didn't have no whoppers back then, they just walked an old cow or steer by your table and you cut off what you wanted.

[Kadmos]

Silly Wabbit, Duct tape wasn't invented yet when I was working for the Hysterical....er Historical Society. Duct tape wasn't put on the market till the 20's.

Sooo...what did you use to seal up ducts, dinosaur hoof glue? ;)

[old Grump]

Dinosaurs were pretty much dead by then, we used eastern seaboard marine duck snot, the ones from Chesapeake Bay were best before it got so crowded and polluted. Then we used Elmers glue but it failed under heat or wet conditions till we learned to add a dash of powdered glass to it.

[Kadmos]

Dinosaurs were pretty much dead by then, we used eastern seaboard marine duck snot, the ones from Chesapeake Bay were best before it got so crowded and polluted.

Out of curiosity, how do you harvest that?

Pepper?
Make them stare at the sun?

[old Grump]

There is a cadre of 712 old Civil war vets with nothing else to do so they sit on Park benches and lie to each, I mean reminiscence with each other. We give each of them a pair of buckets, one is full of toasted rye bread crusts and the other is empty.

When they are ready one old guy throws one crust into the water and then all hell breaks loose. The Ducks come swimming to shore and they waddle over to the men for their crust. They get it and fly back out into the sound. Rye is addictive so soon they swim back and waddle up to one of the men who offers them an empty bucket. When the duck see's the bucket is empty he shorts in disgust or disbelief, we aren't exactly sure on that one), and they leave behind a couple of tablespoons of duck snot. Then the old guy gives them a crust and they fly back out into the sound. in less than an hour the crusts are all gone and each vet has a 5 gallon bucket of duck snot.

The raw snot is taken to the Salvation Army work shop where they boil it down and bottle it for sale to The Aubuchon Hardware Store who distributes the finished product world wide. Good stuff but smells awful and like Rye bread is to ducks it is addictive to steady users and soon a small but substantial percentage of craftsmen were sniffing the stuff. In 1914 Congress passed the Harrison act to squash the use of Marijuanna and ducksnot licking and sniffing. That killed the product. Nobody wanted to take the chance they would get arrested as drug dealers so no more duck snot on the market.

[deth502]

Sooo...what did you use to seal up ducts, dinosaur hoof glue? ;)

actually, there have been tests done that proved hat duct tape is good for just about everything, except for sealing ducts.

subjected to the typical environment of a duct, the glue dries out quickly and the tape becomes useless.

[tank_monkey]

actually, there have been tests done that proved hat duct tape is good for just about everything, except for sealing ducts.

subjected to the typical environment of a duct, the glue dries out quickly and the tape becomes useless.

I noticed that the heat from warm air traveling through air ducts really craps out poor quality Grey Duct tape. I also notice a serious DROP in quality in most duct tapes over the years. They used to be strong and heavy duty. Now they're crappy and don't stick. (I dare say 'made in china' but I'm not sure)........

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Dinosaurs were pretty much dead by then, we used eastern seaboard marine duck snot, the ones from Chesapeake Bay were best before it got so crowded and polluted. Then we used Elmers glue but it failed under heat or wet conditions till we learned to add a dash of powdered glass to it.

LMFAO



Out of curiosity, how do you harvest that?

Pepper?
Make them stare at the sun?
DOUBLE LMFAO....You guys almost made me shit myself.