All this for a Flag?

[El Duce]

Got this from another forum. Apparently michele does not think that the Flag deserves respect!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2SQUXjxUS8

[Warthogg]

Some of us do all that for a flag Michelle.


Wart

[Solidus-snake]

Yes, some us do all of that and more for our Colors.

Pitiful excuse for a first lady..

[old Grump]

Yes, some us do all of that and more for our Colors.

Pitiful excuse for a first lady..
She may be married to the current resident of the White House but she is no lady and barely a citizen. She hates this country so much I wish she would just pack her 1,637 suti cases, 697 trunks and 1582 crates and fly to where she feels more at home. El Capitolio La Habana perhaps. It would be one time I wouldn't begrudge her using Air 1 and a couple of cargo planes for her personal use. Just don't come back.

[Krupski]

Got this from another forum. Apparently michele does not think that the Flag deserves respect!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2SQUXjxUS8

Not only that, but look at the disgusting smirk on Obama's face!

http://three-dog.homelinux.com/images/obama_smirk.jpg

Yeah you fucking asshole President and fucking asshole "First lady"... some people DO that (and a hell of a lot more) for our Flag. Maybe they would understand if it was THEIR Flag........

[JTHunter]

They make me :barf:.
Both of them are nothing but a pile of :bull:.

[Schuetzenman]

They make me :barf:.
Both of them are nothing but a pile of :bull:.

I think this about covers it for me.

[Mark Ducati]

TOTAL DISRESPECT for our flag... I'd like to see her shot, but would settle for a public apology.

[O.S.O.K.]

I am pretty sure that she actually said "all this for a fucking flag". Watch it - she mouths two "f" words.

:pissin-chipmunk:obama and his bitch:pissin-chipmunk2:

[Mark Ducati]

Good call OSOK, before you posted this... my wife literally watched it a few minutes ago and caught her f-bombing...

[Kadmos]

I'm astonished by how well you can all read lips, personally I'm terrible at it.

[Full Otto]

Big lips are like large type

[O.S.O.K.]

I'm astonished by how well you can all read lips, personally I'm terrible at it.

Are you kidding? Watch the video. It is as obvious as the sun coming up. You are an insuferable appologist for anything communist.

Sorry, but you are. That is also obvious.

[Kadmos]

Are you kidding? Watch the video. It is as obvious as the sun coming up.

When someone else puts it in your head that's what it being said then it seems easy, you match up the pictures with what you think you know.

If it were truly obvious how is it some people seem to add in a whole other word? Seems like you all agreed on what she was saying, then someone says she also says "fucking" right in the middle of it and you all agree with that.

If it were in fact so easy how come a full two syllable word, and one that is usually stated quite emphatically was originally missed?

[TheDreamer]

When someone else puts it in your head that's what it being said then it seems easy, you match up the pictures with what you think you know.

If it were truly obvious how is it some people seem to add in a whole other word? Seems like you all agreed on what she was saying, then someone says she also says "fucking" right in the middle of it and you all agree with that.

If it were in fact so easy how come a full two syllable word, and one that is usually stated quite emphatically was originally missed?

Regardless of what the exact words were it was clearly a derogatory statement to what was going on, it is as simple as can be.
In the words of Old Grump: "If you voted for our current President in 2008 to prove you weren’t a racist please vote for anybody else in 2012 to prove you are not an idiot."

[Sergis Bauer]

I'm no professional lip reader, but taking a step back and looking at it as objectively as I can, there clearly is another word in there, but it doesn't seem to be two syllables.

It looks to me like she's saying, "All this for a damn flag."

And her husband smirks back as if to say, "Yes, Michelle. These silly patriots are so amusing to cultured internationalists like us."

Disgusting.

[Warthogg]

Michelle Obama’s “All this for a damn flag” shown at three different speeds

Yes, folks, that is what she said, according to an instructor at a School for the Deaf and Blind who watched the video. The video is shown at normal speed, 3/4 speed, and 1/2 speed with no banners obstructing her lips.

http://conservativebyte.com/2011/11/michelle-obamas-all-this-for-a-damn-flag-shown-at-three-different-speeds/


Wart

[insider]

Read my lips!
http://h.imagehost.org/0057/What_a_wookie.jpg

[Krupski]

Big lips are like large type:yeah:

Dammit I spit coffee on my keyboard! :lool:

[El Jefe]

When someone else puts it in your head that's what it being said then it seems easy, you match up the pictures with what you think you know.

If it were truly obvious how is it some people seem to add in a whole other word? Seems like you all agreed on what she was saying, then someone says she also says "fucking" right in the middle of it and you all agree with that.

If it were in fact so easy how come a full two syllable word, and one that is usually stated quite emphatically was originally missed?

Weird how you keep trying to defend these people, seeing as how you didn't (allegedly) vote for them. Um, yeah.

[Kadmos]

Weird how you keep trying to defend these people, seeing as how you didn't (allegedly) vote for them. Um, yeah.

This has nothing to do with liking them or not liking them, but yeah there are a couple things that bother me.

I had years of people here going on and on about how a real patriot would never talk about our president "that way", and complaining that people would go absolutely nuts over every damn thing Bush said. And here we are with the shoe on the other foot and it's ridiculous. It's just as bad if not worse.

I find that really hypocritical, and that annoys me.

As to this particular thing, well, I've actually known a number of deaf people over the years and only about half seemed to read lips at all, of those who did it was really obvious that frankly they weren't that great at it.

The one conversation I had with one about the topic said that at best by visual cues alone you can only get about 40% of the words right. Most of the time you have to watch body language, know the main topic, and focus on other cues as well. And even then most deaf people will simply disengage from the conversation if it isn't directed at them unless they have an interpreter with them.

Our brain is pretty good at trying to fill in information we don't have, sadly it often gets it wrong. Take any video of people dancing and play any music to it and it will appear to "sync up", even if both time and tempo are off.

So yes when told someone is saying something and "reading" their lips, it's likely going to look like what you were told they said. But in truth I absolutely know it's not that simple.

To me the most damning evidence is everyone agreed one word wasn't there, then it was, as a two syllable word, and now it's there again but as a one syllable word that cannot possibly match up with the two syllable word people thought it was.

[Krupski]

I had years of people here going on and on about how a real patriot would never talk about our president "that way", and complaining that people would go absolutely nuts over every damn thing Bush said. And here we are with the shoe on the other foot and it's ridiculous. It's just as bad if not worse.

A real American (President or otherwise) would salute our Flag during the National Anthem.

http://www.moonbattery.com/obama-national-anthem.jpg

GW Bush may or may not have been a "good" President, but he was 100% pro-America... which is 100% more than I can say for Obama.

[Schuetzenman]

Read my lips!
http://h.imagehost.org/0057/What_a_wookie.jpg
Wow the similairities are staggering.
http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/500/M_113_Creature.jpg

[Warthogg]

This has nothing to do with liking them or not liking them, but yeah there are a couple things that bother me.

I had years of people here going on and on about how a real patriot would never talk about our president "that way", and complaining that people would go absolutely nuts over every damn thing Bush said. And here we are with the shoe on the other foot and it's ridiculous. It's just as bad if not worse.

I find that really hypocritical, and that annoys me.

As to this particular thing, well, I've actually known a number of deaf people over the years and only about half seemed to read lips at all, of those who did it was really obvious that frankly they weren't that great at it.

The one conversation I had with one about the topic said that at best by visual cues alone you can only get about 40% of the words right. Most of the time you have to watch body language, know the main topic, and focus on other cues as well. And even then most deaf people will simply disengage from the conversation if it isn't directed at them unless they have an interpreter with them.

Our brain is pretty good at trying to fill in information we don't have, sadly it often gets it wrong. Take any video of people dancing and play any music to it and it will appear to "sync up", even if both time and tempo are off.

So yes when told someone is saying something and "reading" their lips, it's likely going to look like what you were told they said. But in truth I absolutely know it's not that simple.

To me the most damning evidence is everyone agreed one word wasn't there, then it was, as a two syllable word, and now it's there again but as a one syllable word that cannot possibly match up with the two syllable word people thought it was.



I had years of people here going on and on about how a real patriot would never talk about our president "that way", and complaining that people would go absolutely nuts over every damn thing Bush said. And here we are with the shoe on the other foot and it's ridiculous. It's just as bad if not worse.

Agreed.


I find that really hypocritical, and that annoys me.

Agreed.


As to this particular thing, well, I've actually known a number of deaf people over the years and only about half seemed to read lips at all, of those who did it was really obvious that frankly they weren't that great at it

All of us (with sight) read lips to one degree or another.



Yes, folks, that is what she said, according to an instructor at a School for the Deaf and Blind who watched the video. The video is shown at normal speed, 3/4 speed, and 1/2 speed with no banners obstructing her lips.

http://conservativebyte.com/2011/11/...ferent-speeds/

I expect the person opining above would qualify as an expert witness in a court of law.


Wart

If any doubt the science of lip reading exists, you have only to note football coaches cover their mouths when calling plays from the side line.

[Kadmos]

[/B]
All of us (with sight) read lips to one degree or another.

Of course. We may be able to make out a few words, perhaps a phrase or two, but our rate would probably be 20% correct at best on a conversation, even a very simple conversation. The fact is way too many words, especially in english, look alike.




I expect the person opining above would qualify as an expert witness in a court of law.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I can't put a whole lot of faith in an unnamed person who "is an instructor at a School for the Deaf and Blind", particularly when told by a website called Conservative Byte who's motto is "Taking a Byte out of Liberalism". Frankly, I wouldn't be all that shocked to find out the instructor is a gym teacher who has no knowledge of lipreading or more likely some anonymous person on some forum who claimed to be such.




If any doubt the science of lip reading exists, you have only to note football coaches cover their mouths when calling plays from the side line.


I don't doubt at all that the skill exists, one could even call it a science. But it is a science where the practitioners are keenly aware that it is wildly inaccurate.

In that situation it may make sense for them to cover their mouths, the stakes are high, and the likely vocabulary is limited to related terms, we know he isn't discussing post-Napoleonic French poetry.

[Solidus-snake]

Of course. We may be able to make out a few words, perhaps a phrase or two, but our rate would probably be 20% correct at best on a conversation, even a very simple conversation. The fact is way too many words, especially in english, look alike.





Perhaps. Perhaps not. I can't put a whole lot of faith in an unnamed person who "is an instructor at a School for the Deaf and Blind", particularly when told by a website called Conservative Byte who's motto is "Taking a Byte out of Liberalism". Frankly, I wouldn't be all that shocked to find out the instructor is a gym teacher who has no knowledge of lipreading or more likely some anonymous person on some forum who claimed to be such.





I don't doubt at all that the skill exists, one could even call it a science. But it is a science where the practitioners are keenly aware that it is wildly inaccurate.

In that situation it may make sense for them to cover their mouths, the stakes are high, and the likely vocabulary is limited to related terms, we know he isn't discussing post-Napoleonic French poetry.

This entire post it almost complete spaculation.

[Warthogg]

Of course. We may be able to make out a few words, perhaps a phrase or two, but our rate would probably be 20% correct at best on a conversation, even a very simple conversation. The fact is way too many words, especially in english, look alike.





Perhaps. Perhaps not. I can't put a whole lot of faith in an unnamed person who "is an instructor at a School for the Deaf and Blind", particularly when told by a website called Conservative Byte who's motto is "Taking a Byte out of Liberalism". Frankly, I wouldn't be all that shocked to find out the instructor is a gym teacher who has no knowledge of lipreading or more likely some anonymous person on some forum who claimed to be such.





I don't doubt at all that the skill exists, one could even call it a science. But it is a science where the practitioners are keenly aware that it is wildly inaccurate.

In that situation it may make sense for them to cover their mouths, the stakes are high, and the likely vocabulary is limited to related terms, we know he isn't discussing post-Napoleonic French poetry.

College and pro level plays can be very complex.


Wart

[Kadmos]

This entire post it almost complete spaculation.

It really isn't

From about.com


However, it does not replace written or visual communication. Even the best lipreaders can miss a good bit because only about 30 to 40 percent of speech is visible. Many letters and words look the same on the lips, which can cause misunderstandings.

http://deafness.about.com/cs/communication/a/lipreading.htm

From Wiki


It has been estimated that only 30% to 40% of sounds in the English language are distinguishable from sight alone; the phrase "where there's life, there's hope" looks identical to "where's the lavender soap" in most English dialects. Author Henry Kisor titled his book What's That Pig Outdoors?: A Memoir of Deafness in reference to mishearing the question, "What's that big loud noise?" He used this example in the book to discuss the shortcomings of speechreading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lip_reading

Have fun with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uE5xZKszXMQ


I can't get the video to go but go here and listen to the Ron Paul one, hilarious!
http://badlipreading.tumblr.com/

[Warthogg]

Kadmos,

I certainly understand not supporting any of the Rethuglican dwarf candidates (neither do I) but cannot understand how you can defend and support a presidential dwarf such as Barry Obama ????


Wart

Dubya Bush was also a presidential dwarf. Did you also support Dubya ??

[Kadmos]

Kadmos,

I certainly understand not supporting any of the Rethuglican dwarf candidates (neither do I) but cannot understand how you can defend and support a presidential dwarf such as Barry Obama ????


Wart

Dubya Bush was also a presidential dwarf. Did you also support Dubya ??

I didn't vote for either of them, as to support...well they were/are the President of the US. I may disagree with policies, or may have a personal dislike, but when it comes down to it I'm not going to be happy that a Russian newscaster flipped off our president or that someone threw a shoe at our president, and I will be disgusted by pictures like this
http://www.e-manonline.com/images/entry/obamacare5.jpg
Because its crass, unnecessary and racist.

I also find this one crass and unnecessary as well
http://www.alarmingnews.com/archives/bush_hitler.jpg

To be honest though, not quite AS crass and unnecessary, partly due to his expression. But the idea of that stuff, well sorry but I don't approve.

Now if you want to go on about actual policy stuff, sure they both have plenty to be unhappy with.

But for this thread my point is actually about "lipreading", not about whether or not she did or would say it.

To be very honest, were I in her shoes I could easily imagine saying it as well. At some point the pomp has to be extraordinary annoying. I could see myself getting frustrated at it. Now, the other side of course is it might be ok to feel that way, but the first lady should be a bit more careful to not actually SAY it.

[Warthogg]

I didn't vote for either of them, as to support...well they were/are the President of the US. I may disagree with policies, or may have a personal dislike, but when it comes down to it I'm not going to be happy that a Russian newscaster flipped off our president or that someone threw a shoe at our president, and I will be disgusted by pictures like this
http://www.e-manonline.com/images/entry/obamacare5.jpg
Because its crass, unnecessary and racist.

I also find this one crass and unnecessary as well
http://www.alarmingnews.com/archives/bush_hitler.jpg

To be honest though, not quite AS crass and unnecessary, partly due to his expression. But the idea of that stuff, well sorry but I don't approve.

Now if you want to go on about actual policy stuff, sure they both have plenty to be unhappy with.

But for this thread my point is actually about "lipreading", not about whether or not she did or would say it.

To be very honest, were I in her shoes I could easily imagine saying it as well. At some point the pomp has to be extraordinary annoying. I could see myself getting frustrated at it. Now, the other side of course is it might be ok to feel that way, but the first lady should be a bit more careful to not actually SAY it.


.....not going to be happy that a Russian newscaster flipped off our president


Sadly the lady has been fired. (Privately owned station controlled by Vlad.)


....or that someone threw a shoe at our president


Two shoes and missed with BOTH...dammit.


......and I will be disgusted by pictures like this.....


I believe the pic of Dubya is at least adequate but I agree the pic of Barry is a little over the top. Personally, I would replace the bananas with a pineapple but that's just me.


Wart

[stinker]

Nothing new to see in that video really but that should be a campaign commercial with captions. Gotta love bambam's "yeah, these people are stupid like that" agreement nod. Jackass.

Just more of the same ol same ol. The warning signs were there from the start.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYEvRg7PJVY&feature=related