Postal Rate Hike Beginning 01-22-12

[Gunreference1]

In case you missed it there will be a postal rate increase beginning 01-22-12.

http://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2011/pr11_116.htm

Steve

[Warthogg]

Inevitable when the Post Office cannot terminate workers per union agreement.


Wart

[LAGC]

Inevitable when the Post Office cannot terminate workers per union agreement.

Wow, union-bashing in the first reply. Guess I shouldn't be surprised any more...

The bottom-line is, postal mail volume has really declined, with everyone sending e-mails instead of letters and getting their bank statements and bills online any more. Mail-delivery services like Netflix, Blockbuster, and Gamefly helped slow the decline, but over-all its still trending downward.

They've already talked about ending Saturday service. Won't be long until its down to just Monday-Wednesday-Friday, then eventually only one-day-a-week, and in the end: no service at all. Maybe as soon as 20 years from now.

The postal service is truly a relic of the pre-information age.

[davepool]

Damn, i better run out and stock up before the price increase.

[ltorlo64]

Damn, i better run out and stock up before the price increase.

That is what I was thinking.

[Kadmos]

Inevitable when the Post Office cannot terminate workers per union agreement.


Wart

The first increase in two and a half years, plus it's a FULL penny!

Damn unions ruin everything ;)

[chiak47]

The postal service is truly a relic of the pre-information age.

And the USPS would have failed by now if it were a private entity. Imagine if the FEDS propped up the pony express due to it being to big to fail.

[Kadmos]

And the USPS would have failed by now if it were a private entity. Imagine if the FEDS propped up the pony express due to it being to big to fail.

The postal service doesn't use tax dollars, it's self supporting.

[Oswald Bastable]

The postal service doesn't use tax dollars, it's self supporting.

So who's going to cover that 5 and a half billion they're short this year and asked congress to cover...venture capitalists?

[Hobe Sound AK]

No The P.S will not be going away. for a long time, You are not going to hold your letter or Christmas card on a Computer Monitor, You will hold the Real card and letter in your Hand or Book, or Magazine. I will never pick up my Monitor and hold it in my Hands off the Table. Paper will be around for a long time!!! There are some thing's not meant to be read off a Computer!

[Oswald Bastable]

Wow, union-bashing in the first reply. Guess I shouldn't be surprised any more...

The bottom-line is, postal mail volume has really declined, with everyone sending e-mails instead of letters and getting their bank statements and bills online any more. Mail-delivery services like Netflix, Blockbuster, and Gamefly helped slow the decline, but over-all its still trending downward.

They've already talked about ending Saturday service. Won't be long until its down to just Monday-Wednesday-Friday, then eventually only one-day-a-week, and in the end: no service at all. Maybe as soon as 20 years from now.

The postal service is truly a relic of the pre-information age.

The inability to adapt to changing needs is a death knell to any business. For a union controlled business, it is simply a sign that more concessions from management need to be made, thereby hastening the demise of the business...all so the union leaders can garner bigger bonuses and salaries until the last nail is hammered into the coffin.

And some say it's only wall street that sucks the populace dry...

[Dan Morris]

If volume has declined and the same number of employes are on board.....why is my mail being delivered 4-6 hours later that the old schedule? From 3 pm to 7-8 PM.....the
mis delivered ratio has remained the same.
Dan

[mriddick]

The problem is the PO is a private entity but they are tied to the federal retirement system, with the caveat they must fully fund their part of the retirement. The funny part is Congress way back when wanted the PO fully funding their retirement because they didn't want possible mismanagement at the PO from crashing the federal retirement system (and we all know how well Congress does financing).

Keeping up with this expensive retirement plan is extremely tough, few if any companies would pay for such a system and be able to survive in a competitive world. The PO unions rather then campaigning for a cheaper system, more contributions from the employees, or taking less in benefits are running ads trying to get Congress to stop forcing the PO to fully fund it's pension.

So in the end they are pushing a plan to offset the costs a generation and put their retirement on the tax payer of the future. IMO I think the PO and their union should get together and decide if they want to have decent pay now and a modest retirement system or a great retirement and low pay now. At this point they are trying to have both and their place in the market just won't support it.

[Schuetzenman]

Oswald and mriddick, good posts. LAGC ... lol so predictable. Zer!

[El Jefe]

So who's going to cover that 5 and a half billion they're short this year and asked congress to cover...venture capitalists?

Ka...bam!

Funny, I'm not seeing a reply. WTF? ;)

[Mark Ducati]

For those of you stocking up... be sure to buy the "Forever Stamps". Whatever you buy them for at today's rate (.44 cents), even if postage goes up to $1.00 per letter in 10 years, they still have to honor that stamp at that day's future cost.... that's why they're "Forever".

Over a year's course of business... I probably spend about $1500 in postage sending out patient recall reminders when they're cleaning is coming up, when they're overdue, or sending out monthly billing statements.

A 1 cent hike on letters isn't huge... but the .29 cent increase on postcards is HUGE when it pertains to business ramifications... this means that I will raise the fee for an adult cleaning another dollar to cover the cost sending out patient postcards... I know, raising the cleaning fee from $75 to $76 dollars doesn't seem like a big deal... but when you add up all those post cards I send out each year... why should I eat another $1000 when it should be passed onto the patient/consumer? The postage increase will influence the costs of not only my business... but ALL businesses across AmeriKa.

[Warthogg]

The inability to adapt to changing needs is a death knell to any business.

Yup.

(One of the gifts we humans possess is the ability to rapidly adapt to changing environments. Without that gift we would be historical.)


Wart

[Warthogg]

If volume has declined and the same number of employes are on board.....why is my mail being delivered 4-6 hours later that the old schedule? From 3 pm to 7-8 PM.....the
mis delivered ratio has remained the same.
Dan

An easy one Dan. Because people who actually work are in short supply in the Post Office system while there is an abundant supply of 'managers'.. (My mail is sometime delivered at 7:00PM these days.)


Wart

[Warthogg]

So who's going to cover that 5 and a half billion they're short this year.....

Uhhhh...that will be the US taxpayer.



Wart

[weevil]

Oh well it'll cost me 45 cents a month instead of 44 or whatever it is now.


That's after I run out of stamps in a year or two.



If I remember my history right the Post Office was never intended to be a private entity but rather a govt. service to improve communications, help the growth of commerce, and ensure the free flow of ideas and information in the new republic. One of Benjamin Franklins ideas as I recall.

[mriddick]

For those of you stocking up... be sure to buy the "Forever Stamps". Whatever you buy them for at today's rate (.44 cents), even if postage goes up to $1.00 per letter in 10 years, they still have to honor that stamp at that day's future cost.... that's why they're "Forever".

Over a year's course of business... I probably spend about $1500 in postage sending out patient recall reminders when they're cleaning is coming up, when they're overdue, or sending out monthly billing statements.

A 1 cent hike on letters isn't huge... but the .29 cent increase on postcards is HUGE when it pertains to business ramifications... this means that I will raise the fee for an adult cleaning another dollar to cover the cost sending out patient postcards... I know, raising the cleaning fee from $75 to $76 dollars doesn't seem like a big deal... but when you add up all those post cards I send out each year... why should I eat another $1000 when it should be passed onto the patient/consumer? The postage increase will influence the costs of not only my business... but ALL businesses across AmeriKa.So the cost of sending a post card goes up by cents and your services go up a $1?

[LAGC]

So the cost of sending a post card goes up by cents and your services go up a $1?

Sounds like someone is getting a little greedy. ;)

[Kadmos]

So who's going to cover that 5 and a half billion they're short this year and asked congress to cover...venture capitalists?

Actually, they probably would if given a reasonable chance.

USPS has to actually ask congress in order to do layoffs, cut service days, or do a price increase. It takes an act of law to make these changes.

Which means, the post office knows it needs some major overhauls to stay solvent, but they also know it takes a long time and convincing other people (congress) to kindly allow any changes.

So they try to get a bill put in to cut a service day, and they need a congressman to sponsor it.

When that process takes too long they say they will have a shortfall and ask for cash.

Normally, they get a small postal rate increase instead and it works out.

Look up what the post office has actually asked for in the last couple off years, dropping a service day, laying off thousands of workers.

They can't respond without an act of congress.

Any other business, especially that size, would raise capitol during tough times by selling stock, bonds, or through loans. The post office has much more limited options because of the nature of the setup.

But for those who didn't actually read the thing


A self-supporting government enterprise, the U.S. Postal Service is the only delivery service that reaches every address in the nation, 150 million residences, businesses and Post Office Boxes. The Postal Service receives no tax dollars for operating expenses, and relies on the sale of postage, products and services to fund its operations. With 32,000 retail locations and the most frequently visited website in the federal government, usps.com, the Postal Service has annual revenue of more than $67 billion and delivers nearly 40 percent of the world’s mail. If it were a private sector company, the U.S. Postal Service would rank 29th in the 2010 Fortune 500.

Sorry for the wait Jefferson, I went to sleep.

[mriddick]

The USPO is a shining example of what happens when private business is operated under strict guidelines from the government.

The management of the postoffice wants to do layoffs, close unprofitable offices and cutback some on service. Their union is pushing to offset their pension. Who do you think is going to win that one?

[weevil]

Well it wasn't a private enterprise until 1970.

Prior to the adoption of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970, the U.S. Postal Service functioned as a regular, tax-supported, agency of the federal government.


What we are actually seeing is what happens when a govt mandated agency that's intended to provide a public service is turned into a private company.

[El Jefe]

The USPO is a shining example of what happens when private business is operated under strict guidelines from the government.

The management of the postoffice wants to do layoffs, close unprofitable offices and cutback some on service. Their union is pushing to offset their pension. Who do you think is going to win that one?

Bingo. Some just can't handle the facts.

[Kadmos]

The USPO is a shining example of what happens when private business is operated under strict guidelines from the government.



What we are actually seeing is what happens when a govt mandated agency that's intended to provide a public service is turned into a private company.

I know.

It really is amazing what a success story that has been. Despite the requirement to get permission from congress on so many things, our post office consistantly manages one of the worlds largest workforces, pays them a good wage, with good benifits, efficently carries out its duties of delivering mail to 150 million "customers" a day.

Then to top that off it is able to carry out those duties for two and a half years, during extremely difficult economic times without a price increase, in spite of a very changing society that depends more and more on email.

It really is something to be rather proud of.

[Mark Ducati]

So the cost of sending a post card goes up by cents and your services go up a $1?

The average patient in my office gets 3-4 post cards per year.

[mriddick]

I know.

It really is amazing what a success story that has been. Despite the requirement to get permission from congress on so many things, our post office consistantly manages one of the worlds largest workforces, pays them a good wage, with good benifits, efficently carries out its duties of delivering mail to 150 million "customers" a day.

Then to top that off it is able to carry out those duties for two and a half years, during extremely difficult economic times without a price increase, in spite of a very changing society that depends more and more on email.

It really is something to be rather proud of.

I'm not sure I'd call it a success story quite yet, afterall the final chapter has not been written and they are running 5+ billion (with a B) in the hole yearly. The management has done a pretty good job despite being hobbled by regs from Congress although I now fear their union has taken the playbook from the government unions and have decided now they should forget about negotiating as much as using politicians to regulate what they want. It seems odd the union is campaigning that Congressional interference is the root cause of their problem (the dirty dogs won't let them bill the future taxpayers for their pension) so they are asking for.............


wait for it..................


wait for it.....................


more Congressional interference so they can :) . Yes that's right, even the union agrees it's Congress's meddling that's kept them from being profitable so in their wisdom they want more Congress's involvement.... You'd think with as good a job their management has done they'd be more apt to listen to them, instead they are asking for the opposite.

[Warthogg]

It really is something to be rather proud of.

:why-this::welcome4::crying_small::holy-sheep::lol2:

uh huh


Wart

[mriddick]

The average patient in my office gets 3-4 post cards per year.

And do they get a service for each card? My wife and I get 4 cards a year from our dentist which works out to an extra $1.16 in postcards, if our cleanings go up $1 for each then thats $4 extra dollars the dentist charges, he should be pocketing an extra $2.84... Sounds like you should be supportive of the rate hike :)

[Kadmos]

I'm not sure I'd call it a success story quite yet, afterall the final chapter has not been written and they are running 5+ billion (with a B) in the hole yearly.

You mean it's projected to be 5 billion in the hole next year. Thus far it has run fine.

Think about it, if I recall correctly the last postal worker strike was 1970. Delivery rarely has had any sort of interference or stoppage. There is no doubt the job gets done.

But consider as well some of the other big business lately, they've gotten huge cash infusions from the government, and that's with the ability to do their own scheduling, set their own prices, have layoffs, etc. They can actually respond to the market much much more freely and they still failed.

Also consider the issue from a larger level, the post office is asking for the cash, or to be able to lay off workers, or to be able to cut delivery days, or be able to raise rates...then you can see what asking for the money really is, it's a negotiating tactic.

[mriddick]

As I said the management has done a pretty good job. Although I think we are a juncture where the tax payers will either go back to subsidizing the PO so they can enjoy benefits out of whack to the marketplace or they can tighten their belts and pay for the benefits a 44 (or 45, or 50 whatever the market can support) cent stamp can afford.

I'm not sure I'd bet against Congress taking on the extra debt at this point, whats another couple billion over the next few decades right? I'm sure the next generation is good for it, we're sticking them with everything else why not this too :)

[Warthogg]

You mean it's projected to be 5 billion in the hole next year. Thus far it has run fine.

Think about it, if I recall correctly the last postal worker strike was 1970. Delivery rarely has had any sort of interference or stoppage. There is no doubt the job gets done.

But consider as well some of the other big business lately, they've gotten huge cash infusions from the government, and that's with the ability to do their own scheduling, set their own prices, have layoffs, etc. They can actually respond to the market much much more freely and they still failed.

Also consider the issue from a larger level, the post office is asking for the cash, or to be able to lay off workers, or to be able to cut delivery days, or be able to raise rates...then you can see what asking for the money really is, it's a negotiating tactic.

I haven't checked to be sure but I think the USPS is bumping against their borrowing limit of $15 billion.

Dubya Bush and Barry Obama bailed out the UAW, GM, Chrysler, banks, insurance companies......Barry loaned
money to Brazil so they can drill for oil assuring the Brazilians the US would be their best customer.....

Bail out the USPS ?? You bet. Matters not anyway.


Wart

[Kadmos]

As I said the management has done a pretty good job. Although I think we are a juncture where the tax payers will either go back to subsidizing the PO so they can enjoy benefits out of whack to the marketplace or they can tighten their belts and pay for the benefits a 44 (or 45, or 50 whatever the market can support) cent stamp can afford.

I'm not sure I'd bet against Congress taking on the extra debt at this point, whats another couple billion over the next few decades right? I'm sure the next generation is good for it, we're sticking them with everything else why not this too :)

Extremely good management. With a very diligent workforce as well. And considering their situation of needed congress to decide on such important details, it really is an amazing system that is generally greatly effective.

Perhaps the government will end up bailing it out, I truly hope not, I hope they will allow the USPS to take the actions necessary to continue to operate without tax dollars, and I have the feeling congress will do the right thing, for many people it has been a rather good point of pride, an organization that has been envied by nearly every other country in the world.

Not bad for government work ;)

[Warthogg]

.....and I have the feeling congress will do the right thing........

I'll not even attempt a reply.


Wart

[Gunreference1]

Postal Service Looks to End Overnight Mail Delivery

Published December 03, 2011| FoxNews.com

The Postal Service (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/postal-service.htm#r_src=ramp) on Monday plans to formally propose eliminating "overnight standards" for first-class mail, as it makes sweeping changes in a bid to avoid insolvency.

Sue Brennan, Postal Service spokeswoman, confirmed to Fox News that the service is moving forward with the overnight standard change. If approved, it means first-class mail would generally take more than a day to reach its destination.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/03/postal-service-looks-to-end-overnight-mail-delivery/?test=latestnews

Steve

[chiak47]

And do they get a service for each card? My wife and I get 4 cards a year from our dentist which works out to an extra $1.16 in postcards, if our cleanings go up $1 for each then thats $4 extra dollars the dentist charges, he should be pocketing an extra $2.84... Sounds like you should be supportive of the rate hike :)

Over the years I have realized more and more that your an undercover lefty on most issues.

[mriddick]

I've found most here can't do basic math or take a joke, welcome to that club...

Actually I bet fiscally I'm much more of a traditional conservative then most, that is I'm the type who simply says if you want a program pay for it (today). I would also bet I'm far to the right then most on social issues. In this thread I'm for the post office but if they want federal pensions and benefits they need to pay for them today. If they can't operate in the marketplace paying for such benefits then they either need to cut back or go out of business, going to the fed and getting billions more in loans they can never pay back should not be an option.