Occupy Seattle woman miscarries baby after being attacked by police

[LAGC]

One of Occupy Seattle's outspoken activists who blogs under the name Ian Awesome has a post up this afternoon about the pregnant woman who was hit in last Tuesday's pepper spray attack by Seattle police:


On the 20th, Jeniffer Fox received news that she has miscarried, and alleges the miscarriage is due to the injuries she received during the police action on the 15th.

"It hurts. It's upsetting. I was ready to have a kid, because my family was going to support me in taking care of the child. Her name was going to be Miracle."


Fox was three months pregnant last Tuesday evening when she joined an Occupy Seattle march that stopped at the intersection of 5th Avenue and Pine Street. "I was standing in the middle of the crowd when the police started moving in," she says. "I was screaming, 'I am pregnant, I am pregnant. Let me through. I am trying to get out.'" At that point, Fox continues, a Seattle police officer lifted his foot and it hit her in the stomach, and another officer pushed his bicycle into the crowd, again hitting Fox in the stomach. "Right before I turned, both cops lifted their pepper spray and sprayed me. My eyes puffed up and my eyes swelled shut," she says.
..
..
(more)


http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/11/21/pregant-woman-blasted-with-pepper-spray-by-spd-reportedly-miscarries

http://i43.tinypic.com/158b4o1.jpg

Looks like we have the first casualty of these heavy-handed police actions... the death of a pre-born child. (Murder, if you're Pro-Life.)

[Solidus-snake]

Big surprise, a soon to be mother with no job expecting her family to support her, tests what I gather from the above excerpt.

What the FUCK Is she doin at a rally while carrying a child?

[LAGC]

What the FUCK Is she doin at a rally while carrying a child?

Sounds like she was just exercising her First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble before the cops swooped in and trapped her.

Let's not blame the victim here...

[nfa1934]

First, the truth of anything that comes from these people is suspect.

Second, even if true, I just can't conjure up any sympathy for someone actively involved in a movement to steal. None. If you want to agitate for the enslavement of the productive by the non-productive, I really don't mind if something bad happens to you.

[Ronwicp]

Its all good, you liberals like dead babies.

[Sergis Bauer]

It's her right to ride roller coasters or run marathons or go into a mosh pit too, but she'd be an idiot to do those things while carrying a child. If she's too dumb to realize an OWS protest is a potentially hazardous place for a pregnant woman and/or the unborn child, she's too stupid to be a mother.

[American Rage]

Big surprise, a soon to be mother with no job expecting her family to support her, tests what I gather from the above excerpt.

What the FUCK Is she doin at a rally while carrying a child?

win

[American Rage]

Sounds like she was just exercising her First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble before the cops swooped in and trapped her.

Let's not blame the victim here...

OWS is "peaceful?"

LOL! I call BS

[Justin]

It's her right to ride roller coasters or run marathons or go into a mosh pit too, but she'd be an idiot to do those things while carrying a child. If she's too dumb to realize an OWS protest is a potentially hazardous place for a pregnant woman and/or the unborn child, she's too stupid to be a mother.

:clap:

[El Jefe]

It's her right to ride roller coasters or run marathons or go into a mosh pit too, but she'd be an idiot to do those things while carrying a child. If she's too dumb to realize an OWS protest is a potentially hazardous place for a pregnant woman and/or the unborn child, she's too stupid to be a mother.

Bingo. More proof that common sense, or decency, is in short supply with the OWS trash.

Oh and the victim was the unborn child, victimized by their idiot, commie mother.

LAGC = repeated fail.

[Goodman]

I was ready to have a kid
Ah, NO, you were not. Certainly not ready to take care of one as proven by irresponsible conduct during pregnancy. I bet she also switched to 'light' cigarettes "for the baby".

[El Jefe]

Ah, NO, you were not. Certainly not ready to take care of one as proven by irresponsible conduct during pregnancy. I bet she also switched to 'light' cigarettes "for the baby".

No decent, worthy mother goes to protests and hangs out with scum like the OWS crowd.

[FunkyPertwee]

This is why pregnant women used to stay home. But now since women and babies are no longer worth any more or less than a working (or not) class man, they get boot sole abortions in the middle of a riot. Go figure.

[El Laton Caliente]

This gal is as bright as the one that drug her elementary and pre-school kids to the NY occupy. Being stupid has consequences.

[Richard Simmons]

Unsubstantiated allegations on the part of the "mother to be". I'd need to see proof of the pregnancy and the miscarriage of which to date there is neither.

[El Jefe]

Or the gal from Florida who left her husband and 5 kids to join the OWS BS. She couldn't pass up her shot at being a 60's type dumbass.

[Solidus-snake]

Sounds like she was just exercising her First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble before the cops swooped in and trapped her.

Let's not blame the victim here...

Im all about exercising your rights but holy shit Sherlock, since when has any of these OWS protests that do their best to piss off the PD been peaceful and calm?

Its my first ammendment rights to do a one man sit down against railroad taxes on a train track but you think my ass is dumb enough to do that?

Must be some DAAAAAMN good shit your smoking!

[stinker]

And the story hidden within this story...

These things breed.
Be afraid.
Be very afraid.

This is what happens when you participate in a movement that has no problem with using a pregnant woman or children as a meat shield against police. The OWS organizers probably had her there deliberately for the express purpose of hoping for just this to happen and she's probably too stupid to figure out she just got used by them, assuming she was'nt willing to deliberately lose the baby to advance the cause to begin with.

[LAGC]

Im all about exercising your rights but holy shit Sherlock, since when has any of these OWS protests that do their best to piss off the PD been peaceful and calm?

Its my first ammendment rights to do a one man sit down against railroad taxes on a train track but you think my ass is dumb enough to do that?

Must be some DAAAAAMN good shit your smoking!

Well, keep in mind who is initiating all the violence here: the cops.

Reminds me of an anti-IMF protest I attended back in 2000. I had no intention of being arrested, but when the crowd decided to spontaneously march (without permit) we found ourselves trapped at an intersection with police cruisers on all sides, and I got taken down (after dragging a cop several meters) after he pepper-sprayed me.

I was simply naturally reacting, trying to get away from the spray, but that's considered "resisting/obstructing" -- the pig already had me targeted because I was dressed in all black, he assumed I was one of the anarchist ring-leaders. So he took me down and booked me for "unlawful assembly", what a joke. Several hundred dollars in fines (and many hours of "community service") later before I was free.

My point is: few of these folks attend these things with the expectation of being assaulted -- let alone arrested -- by the police. It's a shameful day in our country when folks trying to exercise their First Amendment rights are subject to such abuse.

In this case, it sounds like as soon as the gal realized the cops were boxing them in, she tried to disassociate herself from the crowd, realizing it was going to be a confrontation. She yelled repeatedly: "I'm pregnant! Just let me leave!" But the cops chose to attack her anyway. What does that tell you about whose really at fault?

[coppertales]

Ah, NO, you were not. Certainly not ready to take care of one as proven by irresponsible conduct during pregnancy. I bet she also switched to 'light' cigarettes "for the baby".

I bet she switched to lite beer too............................for the baby..........I bet this was a put on to inflame the liberals out there....chris3

[Solidus-snake]

Well, keep in mind who is initiating all the violence here: the cops.

Reminds me of an anti-IMF protest I attended back in 2000. I had no intention of being arrested, but when the crowd decided to spontaneously march (without permit) we found ourselves trapped at an intersection with police cruisers on all sides, and I got taken down (after dragging a cop several meters) after he pepper-sprayed me.

I was simply naturally reacting, trying to get away from the spray, but that's considered "resisting/obstructing" -- the pig already had me targeted because I was dressed in all black, he assumed I was one of the anarchist ring-leaders. So he took me down and booked me for "unlawful assembly", what a joke. Several hundred dollars in fines (and many hours of "community service") later before I was free.

My point is: few of these folks attend these things with the expectation of being assaulted -- let alone arrested -- by the police. It's a shameful day in our country when folks trying to exercise their First Amendment rights are subject to such abuse.

In this case, it sounds like as soon as the gal realized the cops were boxing them in, she tried to disassociate herself from the crowd, realizing it was going to be a confrontation. She yelled repeatedly: "I'm pregnant! Just let me leave!" But the cops chose to attack her anyway. What does that tell you about whose really at fault?

Oh I am sure that there are plenty of Leo's at these things that go overboard and get some stress relief kicking non-resisting asses along with the resistors. But seriously shes at a rally thats testing the polices patience as it is, with a gaggle of Anarchists, Socialists and the like, and to boot the happenings at the other OWS movements, she took a big chance just going there.

Shed have to be a complete fool (which she was) to think there was no chance of confrontation at this event. And she was willing to take that risk while carrying a defenseless child? Stupid bitch.

[stinker]

Well, keep in mind who is initiating all the violence here: the cops.

Bullshit. Common tactic is to have one person shove a cop or throw something at him and when the cop goes to arrest them other protesters run interferance which necessitates more cops. As soon as that happens the cameras start rolling and the interferance scatters like roaches while the first agitator starts crying brutality like a little baby.

You might consider spewing the propoganda somewhere that people are a little less informed on current domestic events.


My point is: few of these folks attend these things with the expectation of being assaulted -- let alone arrested -- by the police. It's a shameful day in our country when folks trying to exercise their First Amendment rights are subject to such abuse.

The first ammendment does not protect a person tresspassing on someone elses property or obstructing public spaces.
If it does please recite the part where it mentions the geographic location of your ass on land someone else owns being a protected right?


In this case, it sounds like as soon as the gal realized the cops were boxing them in, she tried to disassociate herself from the crowd, realizing it was going to be a confrontation. She yelled repeatedly: "I'm pregnant! Just let me leave!" But the cops chose to attack her anyway. What does that tell you about whose really at fault?

It's entirely her fault.
A persons failure to properly plan ahead does not constitute an emergency on everyone elses part.
You reap what you sow.

[mriddick]

I'm just amazed LAGC is arguing an unborn child is now a life....

[CigarGuy]

I'm just amazed LAGC is arguing an unborn child is now a life....


I thought it was about "choice", right?

[stinker]

Well, keep in mind who is initiating all the violence here: the cops.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-2VmohG_Pk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGo1-EVrsx8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMmC0UAnj0

[Texas Soldado]

The protesters were obstructing sidewalks and an intersection. They were told to move, ordered, LEO's unsuccessfully attempted to physically move them. :copper: Then the occupy trash was pepper sprayed.. works for me:clap:. They are keeping productive citizens from being able to freely move about or whatever they wish to do. In other words, Occupier's exercise of freedom is encroaching on others freedoms.

Pepper spray, a punch or even a kick is very unlikely to abort a 3 month pregnancy with the 2" fetus nestled in the pelvis.

Occupiers want something for nothing. I have no sympathy or empathy for them.

Occupiers.. Eat S&D:crybaby:

[ltorlo64]

I feel for the woman losing her child. I, however, do not hold the police responsible. If they did nothing they would be castigated for a failure to act to allow law abiding citizens to go about their daily business. If they take action, no matter what it is, they are castigated for being too harsh on the "peaceful" protests. I have watched the "peaceful" protests and they are not peaceful. I am sure she thought it was a good idea to be with a crowd that was purposely instigating a violent response, until she saw what that response might cause. This is almost like hearing a drunk counrty boy say "Hey Bubba, watch this". If you are smart you run the other way. She did not run the other way and paid for it.

[Warthogg]

I would think the woman's first responsibility would be to her unborn child. (Just not sure there is a higher calling that could supersede.) I would also think the first responsibility of the baby's father would be to protect the mother of his child.


Wart

[Texas Soldado]

The cops were just helping her exercise her 'Pro Choice' rights.

[tank_monkey]

It's her right to ride roller coasters or run marathons or go into a mosh pit too, but she'd be an idiot to do those things while carrying a child. If she's too dumb to realize an OWS protest is a potentially hazardous place for a pregnant woman and/or the unborn child, she's too stupid to be a mother.

Correct! She must be an idiot if she is not aware that large volatile crowds with (now) a penchant for fighting with police is NOT a safe place to be if you're pregnant. Perhaps she wears the same rose colored glasses of fantasy logic that LAGC owns ?

[00RedZX-6R]

They should charge the mother with murder for getting the unborn child killed while performing an illegal act.

[Krupski]

I cannot believe all the hostility towards the protesters!

I don't agree with what the OWS protesters are whining about... and that pregnant woman was a damn fool to take her baby into a potentially violent place... but...

THIS IS AMERICA!

Do we or do we not have the First Amendment protected right to freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom to petition the government to redress grievances?

I don't personally agree with the protesters but I 100% support their RIGHT as Americans to protest... and anyone who doesn't is a communist son of a bitch that doesn't belong in America.

Freedom is for everyone, not just those YOU happen to agree with. :banned-mad:

I see a LOT of Gestapo block wardens in the making... right here... :thumbsdown:

[Krupski]

The protesters were obstructing sidewalks and an intersection.

When something is in my way... I walk around it. [rolleyes goes here]

[Richard Simmons]

I cannot believe all the hostility towards the protesters!

I don't agree with what the OWS protesters are whining about... and that pregnant woman was a damn fool to take her baby into a potentially violent place... but...

THIS IS AMERICA!

Do we or do we not have the First Amendment protected right to freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom to petition the government to redress grievances?

I don't personally agree with the protesters but I 100% support their RIGHT as Americans to protest... and anyone who doesn't is a communist son of a bitch that doesn't belong in America.

Freedom is for everyone, not just those YOU happen to agree with. :banned-mad:

I see a LOT of Gestapo block wardens in the making... right here... :thumbsdown:

OK, so can you exercise your 1st amendment rights by standing outside a hospital 24/7 screaming over a bullhorn or blocking the entrance to the ER?

How would you feel if someone stood outside your house and did the same thing? How about preventing you from getting to work on time or making you park a mile away? The fact is, exercising your rights should not infringe on the rights of others, should it? Is anything acceptable as long as your exercising a right while you do it?

[Krupski]

OK, so can you exercise your 1st amendment rights by standing outside a hospital 24/7 screaming over a bullhorn or blocking the entrance to the ER?

How would you feel if someone stood outside your house and did the same thing? How about preventing you from getting to work on time or making you park a mile away? The fact is, exercising your rights should not infringe on the rights of others, should it? Is anything acceptable as long as your exercising a right while you do it?

Why is always the counter argument something plainly wrong like screaming outside a hospital or yelling "fire" in a theater? Of course there are limits to "freedom of expression" and usually that limit is when one person's acts HURT another person in some way.

I'm sure ALL these protesters are really bad people, just blocking ER entrances, yelling "fire" at everyone and throwing napalm at the poor cops who are trying SO HARD to be civil in the face of hippie barbarity...

[Richard Simmons]

Why is always the counter argument something plainly wrong like screaming outside a hospital or yelling "fire" in a theater? Of course there are limits to "freedom of expression" and usually that limit is when one person's acts HURT another person in some way.

I'm sure ALL these protesters are really bad people, just blocking ER entrances, yelling "fire" at everyone and throwing napalm at the poor cops who are trying SO HARD to be civil in the face of hippie barbarity...


There are lots of ways to "harm" someone. Do you consider bankrupting a business harmful? Is there some reason OWS can't protest in the same respectful fashion as the Tea Party Protestors? If there is please explain that reason?

In most cities you can't go to a public park, pitch a tent and just take up residence there. Why does OWS get to confiscate public property and deny the use of that property to other members of the public?

[Kadmos]

From the article


Fox says she has been camping with Occupy Seattle since it first began in Westlake Park. She is homeless and says, "I don't have a place. This is the place I call home."

I support the right of the people to protest, however..if you are a pregnant woman, homeless, camping out with protesters when you absolutely know violence has broken out at similar protests, in SEATTLE during November (temp down to 30 that night), they YOU really have to be aware you are seriously at risk of a miscarriage.

Yes, I feel bad for her, but she knew the risks and choose to ignore them. Screaming to cops that you are pregnant and trying to get past, when hundreds or thousands of others are screaming other things, and expecting to be fully heard and understood...sorry it's not much at all in the way of realistically trying to protect your baby.

[mriddick]

I cannot believe all the hostility towards the protesters!

I don't agree with what the OWS protesters are whining about... and that pregnant woman was a damn fool to take her baby into a potentially violent place... but...

THIS IS AMERICA!

Do we or do we not have the First Amendment protected right to freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom to petition the government to redress grievances?

I don't personally agree with the protesters but I 100% support their RIGHT as Americans to protest... and anyone who doesn't is a communist son of a bitch that doesn't belong in America.

Freedom is for everyone, not just those YOU happen to agree with. :banned-mad:

I see a LOT of Gestapo block wardens in the making... right here... :thumbsdown:

One more time....Your constitutional right to protests ends when it starts infringing on my rights.

[alismith]

Well, keep in mind who is initiating all the violence here: the cops.

Uh....right. The cops went to her "home," forceably dragged her outside, pushed and shoved her to the park, then picked her up and threw her in the front line, all the while, and with knowledge aforethought, and with malicious intent, knew they were going to pepper spray the front line, and wanted to make sure she would be one of the "targets." They made sure she was included in the first group to get sprayed.

Yup, you definitely called this one right.

The one winner I see in all this is the miscarried baby. At least, "Miracle" won't have to grow up with a "mother" like this. I shudder to imagine that kind of life.

[El Jefe]

I cannot believe all the hostility towards the protesters!

I don't agree with what the OWS protesters are whining about... and that pregnant woman was a damn fool to take her baby into a potentially violent place... but...

THIS IS AMERICA!

Do we or do we not have the First Amendment protected right to freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom to petition the government to redress grievances?

I don't personally agree with the protesters but I 100% support their RIGHT as Americans to protest... and anyone who doesn't is a communist son of a bitch that doesn't belong in America.

Freedom is for everyone, not just those YOU happen to agree with. :banned-mad:

I see a LOT of Gestapo block wardens in the making... right here... :thumbsdown:

Um, they're not protesting against the government, they're attacking private business, many times on private property.

You're true, inner Democrat is showing again, dipshit.

[samiam]

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2011/11/21/8/enhanced-buzz-28693-1321883132-9.jpg

[FunkyPertwee]

Nice. They photoshopped him into a clip from Soul Caliber IV.

[Oswald Bastable]

Why is always the counter argument something plainly wrong like screaming outside a hospital or yelling "fire" in a theater? Of course there are limits to "freedom of expression" and usually that limit is when one person's acts HURT another person in some way.

So if a bunch of protesters are blocking the ER entrance when an ambulance pulls up with your wife in it, and she dies because they can't get her in right away...you'd be okay with that because they're just "exercising their 1st Amend right to free speech"?

[Oswald Bastable]

Reminds me of an anti-IMF protest I attended back in 2000. I had no intention of being arrested, but when the crowd decided to spontaneously march (without permit) we found ourselves trapped at an intersection with police cruisers on all sides, and I got taken down (after dragging a cop several meters) after he pepper-sprayed me.

I was simply naturally reacting, trying to get away from the spray, but that's considered "resisting/obstructing" -- the pig already had me targeted because I was dressed in all black, he assumed I was one of the anarchist ring-leaders. So he took me down and booked me for "unlawful assembly", what a joke. Several hundred dollars in fines (and many hours of "community service") later before I was free.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahah!!!

Only thing that would make this story better is if they'd tasered you as well.

:laugh:

[LAGC]

Well, geez, according to some of you, folks like Martin Luther King, Jr. should have never "broke the law" and exercised their First Amendment rights to peacefully march for civil rights. I shutter to think what America would look like if no one ever practiced a little civil disobedience.

Radical change never happened by folks being quiet and polite. Only by being noisy and heard did the political establishment finally listen and reluctantly change its tune.

What I don't get is: why not just let the protesters march? The cops don't need to be thuggish assholes just because they disagree with the protesters. It's not like protesters are blocking intersections until the police corral them and give them no avenue of egress.

Truth is: the cops get off on confrontation. Any excuse to mace or beat or otherwise abuse the citizens they supposedly "serve."

[Oswald Bastable]

Well, geez, according to some of you, folks like Martin Luther King, Jr. should have never "broke the law" and exercised their First Amendment rights to peacefully march for civil rights. I shutter to think what America would look like if no one ever practiced a little civil disobedience.

Are we speaking of hurricane shutters, or just the decorative green painted ones on white houses?


Radical change never happened by folks being quiet and polite. Only by being noisy and heard did the political establishment finally listen and reluctantly change its tune.
What I don't get is: why not just let the protesters march? The cops don't need to be thuggish assholes just because they disagree with the protesters.

Nor do the protesters...yet it seems to be their basic modus operandi...you know...shit on police cars and expect to be treated like gentlemen...the incongruity of action to expectation isn't lost on rational beings.

[stinker]

Well, geez, according to some of you, folks like Martin Luther King, Jr. should have never "broke the law" and exercised their First Amendment rights to peacefully march for civil rights. I shutter to think what America would look like if no one ever practiced a little civil disobedience.
Martin Luther King Jr. never once marched because he wanted other peoples stuff stolen from them by the government to be given to him. The entire OWS movement has no gripe that even remotely compares to the civil rights movement. You're a piece of shit just for suggesting it you lazy little racist communist thief.


Radical change never happened by folks being quiet and polite. Only by being noisy and heard did the political establishment finally listen and reluctantly change its tune.
Radical change to what?
Don't bother answering, i allready know what it is you communists want and you can't have it.
Communism is unconstitutional dumdum.


What I don't get is: why not just let the protesters march? The cops don't need to be thuggish assholes just because they disagree with the protesters. It's not like protesters are blocking intersections until the police corral them and give them no avenue of egress.
That's not what the protestors are doing all over the country and you damn well know it so don't try to play stupid.

Truth is: the cops get off on confrontation. Any excuse to mace or beat or otherwise abuse the citizens they supposedly "serve."
Correction.
They never maced or beat even a single tea party protestor which is composed primarilly of tax payers.
The OWS parasites whining and crying for other peoples stuff that pay NO taxes and don't even do anything productive with their lives on the other hand are getting their ass whooped on a regular basis because of the crap they're pulling all over the country.

I'd say the tax payers of this country that pay their salaries are being served quite well by the police.

[LAGC]

Radical change to what?
Don't bother answering, i allready know what it is you communists want and you can't have it.
Communism is unconstitutional dumdum.

Whether you like it or not, change is coming to this country. The status quo has failed, spectacularly. Just as Gerald Celente predicted, these protests are only going to get bigger, louder, and more obnoxious as these police abuses outrage more people to join in, until the rich have no choice but to give in and accept significant tax increases on their gross wealth. Many millionaires have already come forward asking to be taxed more. The rich are slowly realizing they can't keep getting away with hoarding most of the economic pie, without placating the working class.

[stinker]

Many millionaires have already come forward asking to be taxed more. The rich are slowly realizing they can't keep getting away with hoarding most of the economic pie, without placating the working class.

Oh... You mean the millionares in this video that "occupied DC" recently demanding their taxes be raised and then refusing to pay money to the department of the treasury when given a chance to do the right thing according to them?

http://hnn.us/blogs/pro-tax-millionaires-refuse-donate-money-government

What does it say about a person who knows what the right thing to do is, but then refuses to do it when given the chance unless the government forces them to?

Those "millionares" are all people like lobbyists and class action lawyer parasite types that got their money through activity that could be called anything but productive or useful. They got rich by gaming the system and are the very people that OWS claims to be opposing.

Socialism is for the people not the socialist you fool.
They have theirs, they got it through illegitimate means and now they want to make sure nobody can get theirs unless they approve.

You and all the other OWS morons are what Lennin used to refer to as "useful idiots".
You're being played and you don't even know it.

Gerald Celente
I-D-I-O-T
A little direct quote...

the only way out of this 'let the people vote' if we can bank online we can vote online , we need direct democracy source (http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2011/11/gerald-celente-forecasts-for-2012.html)
Direct democracy is a gang rape.
Eight men vote to rape one woman and the woman has to accept it because the majority decided that it was ok.

A constitutional republic on the other hand is eight men and one woman with a full high capacity magazine.
Think about it for a while until it hurts your head and then think a little more.

[LAGC]

Oh... You mean the millionares in this video that "occupied DC" recently demanding their taxes be raised and then refusing to pay money to the department of the treasury when given a chance to do the right thing according to them?

http://hnn.us/blogs/pro-tax-millionaires-refuse-donate-money-government

What does it say about a person who knows what the right thing to do is, but then refuses to do it when given the chance unless the government forces them to?

As the participants in that video rightly pointed out, donating voluntarily would be pointless. A mere drop in the bucket towards what needs to be done to balance the Federal budget. Why should they be expected to sacrifice if all their other rich counterparts don't have to?

It's about shared sacrifice. And I for one am tired of hearing how senior citizens and college students are expected to do with less and pay a lot more, while the filthy rich get off scot-free.

[stinker]

As the participants in that video rightly pointed out, donating voluntarily would be pointless. A mere drop in the bucket towards what needs to be done to balance the Federal budget. Why should they be expected to sacrifice if all their other rich counterparts don't have to?

Because all of their other rich counterparts are not at capitol hill demanding that everyone else give something up, they are.
Anything that they "give up" will just be added to their "service fees" by their rich politician buddies that pay with tax dollars they did not earn so they will in effect sacrifice nothing.
Nut up or shut up.

[old Grump]

I will bet you a brand new dollar bill that a tox screen found more than just pepper gas in her blood. She wasn't an innocent victim she was looking to be a victim on the front page and that was why she was there. I wonder if she knew who the father of the baby was?

[Krupski]

There are lots of ways to "harm" someone. Do you consider bankrupting a business harmful? Is there some reason OWS can't protest in the same respectful fashion as the Tea Party Protestors? If there is please explain that reason?

In most cities you can't go to a public park, pitch a tent and just take up residence there. Why does OWS get to confiscate public property and deny the use of that property to other members of the public?

To be honest, I do not know exactly what all of their actions have been. If they are PROTESTING, I support them 100% even if I don't agree with what they are protesting.

If they are harming people physically, financially or in any other way, then they've crossed the line and need their heads whacked a few times.

I've seen way too many cop videos and dash-cam videos of cops going wild on someone for virtually nothing... which biases me into thinking the "protesters" are not as bad as the media makes them out to be and that the cops are probably over-reacting.

I could be 100% wrong though.....

[Krupski]

One more time....Your constitutional right to protests ends when it starts infringing on my rights.

Absolutely no disagreement here.

[Krupski]

Um, they're not protesting against the government, they're attacking private business, many times on private property.

You're true, inner Democrat is showing again, dipshit.

So if a private business is doing something wrong, nobody has the right to protest?

Example: ACME toy company makes a doll that randomly says "Fuck You Bitch" when tickled. Parents are livid. The company refuses to change the toy and stores continue to sell the toy.

Now, I know the reply is "if you don't like the toy, don't buy it and the company will get the message"... but tell me... if, as a parent, YOU or I decided we wanted to protest right outside the toy manufacturer and attract some media attention to this terrible toy, would we be in the wrong?

Do we not have the right to protest a wrong...no matter what it's source?

And lastly, why call me "dipshit"? Was that really necessary? You seem to be more intelligent than that.

[Krupski]

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2011/11/21/8/enhanced-buzz-28693-1321883132-9.jpg

OMG! That's hilarious!

I've always wondered why Yoda walks with a cane like an old man, yet he can do all those jumps and flips when he's doing the Jedi thing? :)

"Wise to spray me it was not" :yeah:

[Krupski]

So if a bunch of protesters are blocking the ER entrance when an ambulance pulls up with your wife in it, and she dies because they can't get her in right away...you'd be okay with that because they're just "exercising their 1st Amend right to free speech"?

As I said in the original reply... no.

I asked why way-out examples are used to "justify" a wrong.

Example:

(1) Protesters stand outside hospital, yelling "abortion kills children"
(2) Cops pepper spray them
(3) Gunsnet members applaud the abuse of the protesters by the cops
(4) Krupski jumps in and says "Dammit they have a right to protest - isn't this America?"
(5) Mriddick and Ozzie reply "So it's OK if they block the ER and your wife dies because she can't get medical treatment?"
(6) Krupski shakes his head in confusion because NOBODY EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BLOCKING THE DAMN DOORS!
(7) Krupski then types out an elaborate explanation of his position and wonders if anyone will get it.

:)

[Krupski]

Well, geez, according to some of you, folks like Martin Luther King, Jr. should have never "broke the law" and exercised their First Amendment rights to peacefully march for civil rights. I shutter to think what America would look like if no one ever practiced a little civil disobedience.

Radical change never happened by folks being quiet and polite. Only by being noisy and heard did the political establishment finally listen and reluctantly change its tune.

What I don't get is: why not just let the protesters march? The cops don't need to be thuggish assholes just because they disagree with the protesters. It's not like protesters are blocking intersections until the police corral them and give them no avenue of egress.

Truth is: the cops get off on confrontation. Any excuse to mace or beat or otherwise abuse the citizens they supposedly "serve."

Don't forget Rosa Parks. Damn lawbreaker. She refused to sit at the back of the bus. Who the hell did she think she was? A white woman?

I'll bet everyone here would applaud her being pepper sprayed too... :thumbsdown:

[Richard Simmons]

Don't forget Rosa Parks. Damn lawbreaker. She refused to sit at the back of the bus. Who the hell did she think she was? A white woman?

I'll bet everyone here would applaud her being pepper sprayed too... :thumbsdown:

A better analogy would be if Rosa Parks got on the bus without paying and refused to give up here seat to a paying rider.

OWS has the right to protest in a peaceful fashion and to do so without infringing on the rights of others in the process. When you violate a law or laws in the process of that protest you suffer the consequences. Are laws no longer laws because of why people are breaking them?

[Krupski]

A better analogy would be if Rosa Parks got on the bus without paying and refused to give up here seat to a paying rider.

OWS has the right to protest in a peaceful fashion and to do so without infringing on the rights of others in the process. When you violate a law or laws in the process of that protest you suffer the consequences. Are laws no longer laws because of why people are breaking them?

Rosa Parks violated a law which was in effect back then. She was arrested AND lost her job for her act of civil disobedience.

We need to be able to distinguish between what is LEGAL and what is RIGHT.

In nazi Germany, it was legal (and in fact legally required) to systematically eliminate the Jews in Europe. Because it was "legal" didn't make it RIGHT.

Taking your quote:


OWS has the right to protest in a peaceful fashion and to do so without infringing on the rights of others in the process. When you violate a law or laws in the process of that protest you suffer the consequences.

I agree with the green part... I disagree with the red part. Before judging if they are right or wrong in breaking a law, you have to ask IS THE LAW RIGHT, MORAL AND JUST?

If not, then as Americans they have a DUTY to work to change the law... even if it means breaking that law to attract attention to it.

[LAGC]

Rosa Parks violated a law which was in effect back then. She was arrested AND lost her job for her act of civil disobedience.

We need to be able to distinguish between what is LEGAL and what is RIGHT.

In nazi Germany, it was legal (and in fact legally required) to systematically eliminate the Jews in Europe. Because it was "legal" didn't make it RIGHT.

EXACTLY. There should be no law against peaceful marching. As long as the protesters aren't causing property damage along the way, they should be allowed to demonstrate peaceably. Sure, they may cause minor traffic disruptions, but so fucking what? Once they've gotten to their destination, they disperse on their own. It's the fucking cops who try to corral them and control them, and box them in so they have no way to escape -- conflict is inevitable, and the cops prefer it that way.

[Texas Soldado]

Example:

(1) Protesters stand outside hospital, yelling "abortion kills children"
(2) Cops pepper spray them
(3) Gunsnet members applaud the abuse of the protesters by the cops
(4) Krupski jumps in and says "Dammit they have a right to protest - isn't this America?"
(5) Mriddick and Ozzie reply "So it's OK if they block the ER and your wife dies because she can't get medical treatment?"
(6) Krupski shakes his head in confusion because NOBODY EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BLOCKING THE DAMN DOORS!
(7) Krupski then types out an elaborate explanation of his position and wonders if anyone will get it.

:)

The Federal judge ruled the Pro Life Protesters had to assemble ACROSS the street and could not be on Hospital property. So protesters could not interfere with women who need access to the hospital to receive the lawful service of abortion.
OWS protesters should observe the same rules and police would have left them alone. These protesters continuously try to stop & block others from being able to go to work, take their children to school, prevent students from access to university buildings.
When the Westboro Baptist Group wants to protest, they are assigned a position away from the military funeral so that the legitimate process of laying a military hero to rest cannot be disrupted. The police never do anything to those protesters as long as they don't disrupt and really, the police protect them from angry patriots.

OWS needs to learn a lesson about boundaries.

[Richard Simmons]

Rosa Parks violated a law which was in effect back then. She was arrested AND lost her job for her act of civil disobedience.

We need to be able to distinguish between what is LEGAL and what is RIGHT.

In nazi Germany, it was legal (and in fact legally required) to systematically eliminate the Jews in Europe. Because it was "legal" didn't make it RIGHT.

Taking your quote:



I agree with the green part... I disagree with the red part. Before judging if they are right or wrong in breaking a law, you have to ask IS THE LAW RIGHT, MORAL AND JUST?

If not, then as Americans they have a DUTY to work to change the law... even if it means breaking that law to attract attention to it.

So what "LAW" is OWS trying to change? What moral wrong are they trying to right? AFAIK they want all debt forgiven, student loans forgiven, etc. They think people shouldn't make more than a certain level of income. Are those immoral wrongs that need righted?

[Richard Simmons]

EXACTLY. There should be no law against peaceful marching. As long as the protesters aren't causing property damage along the way, they should be allowed to demonstrate peaceably. Sure, they may cause minor traffic disruptions, but so fucking what? Once they've gotten to their destination, they disperse on their own. It's the fucking cops who try to corral them and control them, and box them in so they have no way to escape -- conflict is inevitable, and the cops prefer it that way.

Problem is they aren't dispersing hence the use of the work "Occupy" in the name.

[Krupski]

The Federal judge ruled the Pro Life Protesters had to assemble ACROSS the street and could not be on Hospital property. So protesters could not interfere with women who need access to the hospital to receive the lawful service of abortion.
OWS protesters should observe the same rules and police would have left them alone. These protesters continuously try to stop & block others from being able to go to work, take their children to school, prevent students from access to university buildings.
When the Westboro Baptist Group wants to protest, they are assigned a position away from the military funeral so that the legitimate process of laying a military hero to rest cannot be disrupted. The police never do anything to those protesters as long as they don't disrupt and really, the police protect them from angry patriots.

OWS needs to learn a lesson about boundaries.

IF the OWS protesters were blocking access to any service that other people needed, then they were in the wrong.

If they were pepper sprayed merely for protesting, then the cops were in the wrong.

What ACTUALLY happened... I do not know... I wasn't there.

[Texas Soldado]

EXACTLY. There should be no law against peaceful marching. As long as the protesters aren't causing property damage along the way, they should be allowed to demonstrate peaceably. Sure, they may cause minor traffic disruptions, but so fucking what? Once they've gotten to their destination, they disperse on their own. It's the fucking cops who try to corral them and control them, and box them in so they have no way to escape -- conflict is inevitable, and the cops prefer it that way.

So if you are trying to get to work.. and your boss isn't the understanding kind of person about lateness... or... you need to pick your 7 year old kid up from school and the OWS group completely stops traffic and you are stuck for 2-3 hours... so mutha effin what! right?

OWS sure gets my sympathy in this scenario, you taxpayers who have jobs, responsibilities, children to care for, supper to cook, or maybe you just want to get home from work and have a beer.... SCREW you... deal with it ....

[Krupski]

So what "LAW" is OWS trying to change? What moral wrong are they trying to right? AFAIK they want all debt forgiven, student loans forgiven, etc. They think people shouldn't make more than a certain level of income. Are those immoral wrongs that need righted?

I never said that I agree with the OWS protesters... indeed I do not. I do, however, support their right to peacefully protest.

[LAGC]

Problem is they aren't dispersing hence the use of the work "Occupy" in the name.

The "occupation" refers to their encampments, which to my knowledge have all taken place in PUBLIC parks. Even Liberty Park (formerly Zucotti Park) is supposed to be open to the public 24/7, even if the land is owned privately.

[LAGC]

So if you are trying to get to work.. and your boss isn't the understanding kind of person about lateness... or... you need to pick your 7 year old kid up from school and the OWS group completely stops traffic and you are stuck for 2-3 hours...

First of all, it isn't the protesters sticking up traffic for hours on end -- the entire definition of march is MOBILE. It's not until the police swoop in and cut them off, boxing them in, that it causes serious traffic delays. It's just like blaming the protesters for businesses being barricaded so they lose out on business -- its not the protesters who put the barricades up, its the fucking cops!

[Texas Soldado]

First of all, it isn't the protesters sticking up traffic for hours on end -- the entire definition of march is MOBILE. It's not until the police swoop in and cut them off, boxing them in, that it causes serious traffic delays. It's just like blaming the protesters for businesses being barricaded so they lose out on business -- its not the protesters who put the barricades up, its the fucking cops!

OWS protesters cause disruption in NYC, 177 arrested OWS protesters cause disruption in NYC, 177 arrested

Thousands of anti-Wall Street protesters clashed with cops today across lower Manhattan, starting with a march on the New York Stock Exchange this morning and ending with a crossing of the Brooklyn Bridge that snarled traffic.

Cops responded in force, at one point this afternoon sweeping into Zuccotti Park and arresting anyone inside. In total, more than 200 people were busted by cops; five of whom were charged with assault.
The culmination of the day of protests to mark the movement’s two-month anniversary began with hundreds of protesters massing on the Manhattan side of the Brooklyn Bridge.

Ninty-nine people wearing white t-shirts saying “99%” sat down on Park Row, blocking traffic. Cops quickly moved in and began arresting them. Centre and Chambers streets were packed with protesters.

[LAGC]

OWS protesters cause disruption in NYC, 177 arrested OWS protesters cause disruption in NYC, 177 arrested

Thousands of anti-Wall Street protesters clashed with cops today across lower Manhattan, starting with a march on the New York Stock Exchange this morning and ending with a crossing of the Brooklyn Bridge that snarled traffic.

The bridge march may have been a little over the top, but again, I doubt they would have staged their sit-in if it wasn't for cops blocking their path on the other side. The whole point was publicity, which the protesters got plenty of with that particular march.

When the cops beg for confrontation, it's only natural for some of the protesters to oblige them. But again, we're only talking about a small minority of anarchist trouble-makers, hardly the whole crowd.

[El Jefe]

The bridge march may have been a little over the top, but again, I doubt they would have staged their sit-in if it wasn't for cops blocking their path on the other side. The whole point was publicity, which the protesters got plenty of with that particular march.

When the cops beg for confrontation, it's only natural for some of the protesters to oblige them. But again, we're only talking about a small minority of anarchist trouble-makers, hardly the whole crowd.

How's that quitting his job to join the protests, working out for your brother?

[Texas Soldado]

About 300 arrested as Occupy Wall Street protests sweep through NYC streets
Thursday, November 17, 2011, By Star-Ledger Staff

NEW YORK — The Occupy Wall Street movement marked its two-month anniversary today with a "Day of Action" that took protesters from Wall Street, into the subway system and across the Brooklyn Bridge in a mix of activism and minor violence.

About 300 people were arrested as protesters tried to block streets and clashed with police across Manhattan, the Associated Press reported. Several police officers were injured, including one who was slashed on the hand by thrown glass and others who had a liquid, possibly vinegar, thrown in their faces. Some of the protesters said the day helped revitalize the anti-Wall Street movement that began in New York and has spread across the world. Others said the march through Manhattan may have been a final show of force for a cause that suffered a stinging defeat earlier this week when the protesters’ camp was ousted from Zuccotti Park.

"This is a critical moment for the movement given what happened the other night," said Paul Knick, a software engineer from Montclair who was marching with the protesters. "It seems like there’s a concerted effort to stop the movement, and I’m here to make sure that doesn’t happen."

Chanting slogans like "Whose streets? Our streets!" protesters sought to close off entrances to the New York Stock Exchange before the ringing of the bell and clashed with a heavy contingent of police deployed on the streets.
By the evening, the crowd swelled as students and union members joined the protests. Some estimates put the crowd in the thousands as the group prepared to march over the Brooklyn Bridge.

The protesters’ day began with an early morning march on Wall Street, where they hoped to disrupt the opening of the New York Stock Exchange. Instead, they only managed to disrupt traffic when they were met with police barricades that blocked anyone without an employee identification from entering the financial district.

Police confiscated metal devices from some protesters who may have been planning to lock themselves to the entrances of Wall Street businesses, New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said.

Not everyone understood what the protesters were trying to achieve by disrupting the workday.

"I don’t understand their logic," said Adam Lieberman, as he struggled to navigate police barricades on his way to work at JPMorgan Chase. "When you go into business, you go into business to make as much money as you can. And that’s what banks do. They’re tryingB to make a profit."

The protesters returned to Zuccotti Park Thursday morning, where protesters attempted to remove the metal barriers that have surrounded the park since Tuesday’s crackdown on tents and camping equipment. Several skirmishes broke out with police.

Occupy Wall Street protesters vowed to shut down Wall Street this morning, streaming from Zucotti Park at 7 a.m. and flooding the financial district. Chanting protesters gathered at entrances to the New York Stock Exchange, sometimes clashing with riot police. Protestors blocking an intersection were arrested.

"It’s the inequality, man. That’s why we’re here. We got to end it, we got to reduce it," said Neil Talbot, 72, of New York.

As they crossed the Brooklyn Bridge in a crush of bodies, the protesters chanted and cheered.

"There’s 10,000 people marching on this bridge," said Sam Daleo, 19, who moved from Detroit to New York a month ago. "It might mean something different to everyone, but it does mean something to everyone."

By Richard Khavkine and James Queally/The Star-Ledger

[LAGC]

About 300 people were arrested as protesters tried to block streets and clashed with police across Manhattan, the Associated Press reported. Several police officers were injured, including one who was slashed on the hand by thrown glass and others who had a liquid, possibly vinegar, thrown in their faces.

How's that saying go? "It takes two to tango." You can't have a war unless both sides show up. What did police expect would happen once they impeded the protesters' movements? Naturally, some got pissed and over-reacted. Shit happens.


The protesters’ day began with an early morning march on Wall Street, where they hoped to disrupt the opening of the New York Stock Exchange. Instead, they only managed to disrupt traffic when they were met with police barricades that blocked anyone without an employee identification from entering the financial district.

I think you meant to bold the "when they were met with police barricades" part didn't you?

Of course, the corporate media would never try to downplay, misrepresent, and denigrate the protesters...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/images/sarcasm.gif

[Richard Simmons]

The "occupation" refers to their encampments, which to my knowledge have all taken place in PUBLIC parks. Even Liberty Park (formerly Zucotti Park) is supposed to be open to the public 24/7, even if the land is owned privately.

Zuccotti Park is "privately-owned-public-space". The owners of the park wanted it cleaned as sanitation issues were present and they also wanted it restored to it's intended purpose which is the use and enjoyment of the general public. By occupying the park as they did OWS was denying the general public the use of the park.

[blacksheep]

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/11/21/pregant-woman-blasted-with-pepper-spray-by-spd-reportedly-miscarries

http://i43.tinypic.com/158b4o1.jpg

Looks like we have the first casualty of these stupid ows actions... the abortion of a pre-born child. (Murder, if you're Pro-Life.)


Play stupid games win stupid prizes, on a side note that is one fugly bitch. :runforhills:

[stinker]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes, on a side note that is one fugly bitch. :runforhills:

I just had a flashback of Jeff Foxworthy.
"Oh my god somebody slept with that woman!"

:lmao3:

[Helen Keller]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes,


:lool:

[El Jefe]

Zuccotti Park is "privately-owned-public-space". The owners of the park wanted it cleaned as sanitation issues were present and they also wanted it restored to it's intended purpose which is the use and enjoyment of the general public. By occupying the park as they did OWS was denying the general public the use of the park.

Yep, but LAGC won't acknowledge this fact.