I just loaded my first 50 rounds.

[NAPOTS]

I bought my self a loading setup for x-mas. I went with the hornady lock n load classic.
Along with the basic kit I got a caliper, trimmer, tumbler, digital scale and various other loading tools.

I just loaded my first 50 rounds of .223. Using once fired PMC brass, I tubmled, lubed, sized and decapped, trimmed to 1.750", deburred, primed, charged with 25.0 gr of varget, and seated a 69 gr smk to 2.235" COL. I did not crimp.

Observations I have had, and I hope these are right.
1. Tubmling and sizing is easy and I could process a ton of cases like this without too much trouble.
2. The instructions called for lowering the sizing die down onto the shell holder until it just barely touches without camming over. I adjusted it until I could barely feel the die in the handle through the top of the stroke. When I Sized cases I noticed that with the extra force on the die from the case there was a small gap between the die and the shell holder. I made sure the sized cases chambered ok. I hope this is normal and acceptable.

3. Trimming cases.... sucks. This is probably the most tedious part of the whole operation. I am loading these for accuracy so I cut them all to length.

4. Removing the military crimp is a pain in the ass.

5. Charging the cases. I was measuring every charge and dribbling to get the weight spot on but this was very slow. I ended up checking the range of the powder drop and it was around +/- 0.4 or 0.5 grains. Since I was using 25 gr nominal, and the max is 26 towards the end I started just dropping the charge directly into the case I will see how accuracy is effected by a few teths of a grain.

6 Setting COL with the SMKs, the bullets arent flat across the hollowpoint and the seater die seats against the ogive not the tip so the COL varied quite a bit. I hope this too is acceptable.

7. I did not crimp. The concensus seems to be that this is not necessary and negatively effects accuracy. When I checked my depth I used an emty casing with no charge in it. I then used my kinetic bullet puller. I had to wack the shit out of it to get the bullet out so I am not worried about these bullets shaking loose.

I am going to try to make it to the range tomorrow to see how this load works out. The lcoal funstore didn't have the bullet I actually wanted which was a 75 gr Hornady BTHP.

[Schuetzenman]

Congrats on getting into reloading!

Item list answers:
1. Yes tumbling or vibratory bowl cleaning is easy, but you can overload the polisher and this will impact it's effectiveness. I use walnut media as it does the job much faster than corn cob.

2. Setting up dies. My RCBS instructions from long ago said run the ram up all the way screw the die down till it touches then back off 1/2 turn. Speaking of dies did you get a small base diameter resizing die? If not you may find that eventually you're going to need it. RCBS makes them and I know you went Hornaday at least with the basic kit. I am assuming that means you have Hornaday brand dies.

3. Yes triming cases sucks. Try trimming 3,000 .223 cases and you will redefine suck in your life. (been there, done that). Purchased a power trimmer called a Gracey Power Trimmer. Does inside and out super quick but is a pain in the ass to set up, costs hundreds.

4. Yes crimp removal sucks. You either swage it out or ream it out. I use a Lyman primer pocket reamer tool that fits in my hand drill. Once again electricity is your friend. Dillon makes a primer pocket swager that has a good reputation. Expensive.

5. .5 grains will make a difference in accuracy with Varget and the SMK 69 gr. bullets. I have much experience with this combo. .2 grs. in fact made a difference I could see on paper.

6. Cartridge Overall Lengh, don't obcess on it too much as you have noticed the tip of the SMK is wavy. There are measuring tools that use the Ogive as a point of measurement, these are better methods. Bullet seating depth in the AR revolves around 2 things; 1) don't have the Ogive touch the rifling as this causes a pressure spike. 2) has to fit in the magazine and feed out of it reliably if you want practical ammo. Exceptions are 80+ gr. bullets. These are so long that they can only be single loaded. Unless you are shooting Service Rifle or High Power competition at long range, (600 yds) you won't need those heavy weight pills.

7. Crimp can be good, or bad if badly done. Overall case length will effect crimp. If each chase is a different length you can't get the same crimp case to case. OTOH if you trim them all to uniform length Crimp can work and not impact accuracy. Roll crimp should never be used. I use a taper crimp die to put a tiny bit of squeeze on the projectile. RCBS makes tapers, not sure of others.

Mail order on bullets is often less money than a local store. Check out Pat's Reloading he carries Hornaday Match bullets. http://patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.aspx

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|281|1079|1160 Check out Widener's Reloading in Johnson City TN. They have some Euro made SMK look alike bullets.

[NAPOTS]

Scheutz,

Thanks for the reply. I have been wanting to get into reloading for a while and the deal breaker was that the match grade .223 is $1 a round if loaded factory. I used to help my father reload so I was already at least a little familiar with the process.

I did go with Hornady dies although I believe I can use any die in the quick change bushings. I am using a full length sizer die but not a small base die. Since .223 headspaces on the shoulder will the issue I run into with the full length sizer die be that I will eventually have difficult chambering the rounds?

Its reassuring to know that I am not the only one that found trimming to be a lot of work to shave a few thousanths off of the case. I think I will eventually look into those power case prep stations.

Do you trim every time when loading for accuracy or do you just monitor the length and trim when they are over the max?

If a few thenths of a grain makes a differnce I will try and get a technique down for dropping powder, measuring, and trickling. Right now I have my hands flying all over the work bench to get the charge weight right on.

I just looked at the description and the crimp in my seating die is a roll crimp not a taper crimp. I have read good things about the lee factory crimp die. Have you used it?

[O.S.O.K.]

Nothing to add - just wanted to say congrats on getting started!

[Mark Ducati]

Good for you... I too just got into reloading and have loaded about 500 rounds of 50AE by now.

I found that breaking it up into phases helps...

- removing the primers and resizing
- polishing
- new primers

Then, I'd load maybe 50-100 rounds per night. I'm doing these with a rock chucker style single press too... I don't have the patience to sit more than an hour. I figure after that, I'd be getting sloppy.

[Schuetzenman]

Scheutz,

Thanks for the reply. I have been wanting to get into reloading for a while and the deal breaker was that the match grade .223 is $1 a round if loaded factory. I used to help my father reload so I was already at least a little familiar with the process.

I did go with Hornady dies although I believe I can use any die in the quick change bushings. I am using a full length sizer die but not a small base die. Since .223 headspaces on the shoulder will the issue I run into with the full length sizer die be that I will eventually have difficult chambering the rounds?

Its reassuring to know that I am not the only one that found trimming to be a lot of work to shave a few thousanths off of the case. I think I will eventually look into those power case prep stations.

Do you trim every time when loading for accuracy or do you just monitor the length and trim when they are over the max?

If a few thenths of a grain makes a differnce I will try and get a technique down for dropping powder, measuring, and trickling. Right now I have my hands flying all over the work bench to get the charge weight right on.

I just looked at the description and the crimp in my seating die is a roll crimp not a taper crimp. I have read good things about the lee factory crimp die. Have you used it?

On sizing dies, I used standard RCBS .223 die until about 3 years ago. I finally had an issue with rounds not chambering, gun not going into battery because of case swell at the base. Going to the RCBS small base die cured that. I think what it came from was me reusing rounds fired out of my SAR-3 AKM weapon. These got mixed in with my general case population and it caused me fits until I went small base die. As long as you only have AR15's you might not need the small base die, but I thought I would mention it as it's purpose is to make more reliable ammo for self loading rifles.

Also X-dies by RCBS. I use a small Base X-Die which is supposed to limit case growth. You trim all your brass to length and then it is not supposed to grow beyond spec after that. I think it works but the jury is still out.

On trimming, I trim when I exceed spec. after resizing. I don't trim every time I reload. In as much as I'm not using cannalure ringed bullets I don't think it makes a difference.

On Lee Factory collet crimp die type crimp. I have not used one but have a shooting buddy that swares by them, uses them on all his calibers. In as much as I had taper crimp dies for those that need it already I didn't feel like expending the money to get the Lee Collet Crimp types. Probably 6 of 1 or a half dozen of the other sort of thing.

[NAPOTS]

Here is the mandatory workbench pic

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j418/Napots/IMG_0268.jpg

I'll need to reinforce the area under the tabletop where the press is bolted down. The top is only .700" plywood.

[O.S.O.K.]

Lookin good! And yeah, some extra 2x4's under the top there will help to keep the press from coming loose.

I can't wait to get to our new place in MS and be able to set-up again.

[L1A1Rocker]

Congrads! You are off to a most excellent start. Regarding the powder scale, check the fine print, I'm betting it states accuracy is plus or minus .2 grains (most are). Some people (not me) that are really into getting the best powder accuracy will use two scales. I've considered getting a real triple balance on occasion for better accuracy.

BTW, can I interest you in any cast bullets?
http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.php?14531-Hollow-Point-Cast-Bullets-for-Sale

[Pikeman]

Sorry I missed the initial entry. You have the same set as I. I set my first one on one of those folding WorkMate tables modified with permanent heavy oak top. Small enough to move inside from the cold or to deer/gun camp to work out play rounds but heavy enough to re size stubborn magnum cases. I put a second one on a portable tripod set up for stuff requiring less force (pistol ammo). Bought that from a guy on gunbroker more than a year ago. He may still offer them. Best thing i could pass on is just when things are running like clockwork go back and check the measurements. Not that I ever made a mistake but could i interest you and 10 or so 458 socom rounds with slightly wide shoulders?!

[az_paul]

Congrats and welcome to another addictive facet of this wonderful hobby!

I'm using a Redding 2400 to manually trim the cases, and yes, it does get a bit tiring at times. I also tend to do things in stages.

[NAPOTS]

Well I have hit the 1000 mark on cases reloaded. 700 .223 and 300 .44 mag.

I have trimmed every damn one of them.

[O.S.O.K.]

I only trim when I absolutely have to. Hate it. Now, if there was powered trimmer that you could just dump the cases into and then push the "go" button, then I wouldn't mind so much. :)

[az_paul]

NAPOTS said: "Well I have hit the 1000 mark on cases reloaded. 700 .223 and 300 .44 mag. I have trimmed every damn one of them."

Congrats, man! Hope your arm recovers quickly.

[NAPOTS]

NAPOTS said: "Well I have hit the 1000 mark on cases reloaded. 700 .223 and 300 .44 mag. I have trimmed every damn one of them."

Congrats, man! Hope your arm recovers quickly.

I't wasn't so bad. I am doing everything in 100 round batches. The expander die for pistol almost seems like a waste. It's clearly needed but the amount of work you need the die to do is so miniscule that that extra pull of the handle seems like alot for nothing. Thankfully you can run the cases through super fast through that die.

I think I am going to move on to .45 ACP next. I was going to load them with 200 gr SWCs. I have been told those don't usually need to be trimmed and the taper crimp is supposed to be more forgiving for case length variations than the roll crimp used on the .44

[L1A1Rocker]

I think I am going to move on to .45 ACP next. I was going to load them with 200 gr SWCs. I have been told those don't usually need to be trimmed and the taper crimp is supposed to be more forgiving for case length variations than the roll crimp used on the .44


Easy round to load. No trimming needed and just a bit of a taper crimp - like the other have said. You never want to roll crimp a case that headspaces on the case mouth.

[NAPOTS]

Easy round to load. No trimming needed and just a bit of a taper crimp - like the other have said. You never want to roll crimp a case that headspaces on the case mouth.

You also only want to roll crimp a bullet if it has a cannelure right?

A non cannelured bullet you can use a factory crimp or taper crimp though cant you?

[az_paul]

I haven't been trimming the pistol cases, and, haven't run into any problems so far. That said, I'm still a novice at this and perhaps trimming them would improve my groups.

I believe my .45 reloads used 230gr. bullets with Unique powder.

[NAPOTS]

I don't intend on trimming the .45 acp unless they are over the max length. They length of the case controlls headspace.

I felt the need to trim the .44 mag because the case length controlls the position of the cannelure in the case and how far into the crimping die that the case goes.

Most of my .223 brass was over the max length.

The .44 went a lot faster than the .223 I think becuase I didn't have to screw around with crimped primer pockets.

[L1A1Rocker]

You also only want to roll crimp a bullet if it has a cannelure right?


True for jacketed bullets but you can roll crimp a cast bullet without a cannelure - although some advice against it. To me the only problem with it is I need to spend a bit of time "cleaning" the loaded bullet - but I do that anyway.



A non cannelured bullet you can use a factory crimp or taper crimp though cant you?

If by "factory crimp" you mean the Lee Factory Crimp Die you'd be correct. You can also use the taper crimp.

[az_paul]

How did your loads work out?

[NAPOTS]

Pretty good I shot a couple of one inch groups but I wasn't my best I might be able to do a little better im taking another 50 to the range tomorrow

[NAPOTS]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j418/Napots/IMG_0292.jpg
This was at 100 yards. 7/8".

I also shot a 2.5" 10-shot group at 300 yards

[az_paul]

Congrats! That is very impressive! Did you fine tune the loads for a particular gun, or we're the reloads more general in nature? Either way, those are very respectable.

[Schuetzenman]

Are thoase the 75 gr. Hornadays? That's pretty good if from a chrome lined barrel. Most of the time to do better than that you'd need a good match grade barrel like a Kreiger.

[NAPOTS]

Those were 75 gr Hornady BTHPs. The barrel is a 20” RRA varmint. I think its capable of better but I am not the best shot in the world.

I haven’t taken the time to work on an exact load for this rifle. This was a pretty generic load from the book using N235 powder.

If I was going to try and tune a load I would want a lead sled to take as much of the shooter element out of the picture as possible.