The United States officially ends its military campaign in Iraq with no clear victory

[LAGC]

Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- The United States officially ended its eight-and-a-half year military campaign in Iraq Thursday, as the flag of the command was lowered in Baghdad.
..
..
Noting the nearly 4,500 Americans killed and more than 30,000 injured, Obama spoke of the heavy sacrifice and hard work in the Iraq mission.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/meast/iraq-us-ceremony/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

It's about fucking time! 4500 U.S. lives sacrificed and $1 TRILLION pissed away for what? Chasing after phantom WMDs and no clear end-goals...

Thanks for finally ending this unwinnable war, Mr. President. Hope Afghanistan is next, and soon. With no clear objectives and no clear victory, it was just a colossal waste of U.S. blood and treasure for little gain. It remains to be seen whether the Iraqi government will even survive with all the resentment the invasion and long occupation created.

Let us learn from this mistake and never again elect another warmongering president to get us bogged down in another futile war again, like with Iran.

Let people with oppressive governments wage their own revolutions, like in Libya, and let us not spill any more American blood under false pretenses and "nation building" with ulterior motives, ever again.

[mriddick]

I think the goal in Iraq was to draw out those who would be willing to take up arms and plan to attack Americans and kill them. I also believe it was to teach those who would support those who would take up arms and plan to attack Americans that we'd bring the war to their backyard. In that I think we were very successful. The inevitable cycle of nation building we fell into was a waste, IMO we should of pulled up stakes when Saddam was killed and the same for osama.

[El Laton Caliente]

Same as Nam, the Republicans won the war and the Democrats lost the peace...

[Ruskiegunlover]

and typical of the socialist pig fuck that he is celebrating what may very well be a LOSS for America. SHis title really tells you everything he and the left feel about the American military......A thumbs UP, and a celebretory 'WE LOST, YAY!'.

Hey, FUCK you lagc. Just another worthless, tit-sucking, cock blowing, child raping, murdering occupy movement type piece of shit.

Certainly not an American, because no one tryly loyal and patriotic for our country would CELEBRATE a loss for our military.

[LAGC]

Save your rage for your hero Boosh who got us dragged into it in the first place. All those deaths are on his hands.

"Mission Accomplished!" eight years ago! HA!

:laugh:

[LAGC]

Same as Nam, the Republicans won the war and the Democrats lost the peace...

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Gerald Ford (R) who was president when Saigon fell in 1975?

[mriddick]

Sort of odd yesterday hearing the President talk about the surge winning the war when he was not only agaisnt it but ran as President as being against it. The only reason he's able to pull out today with any chance of looking like the job is finished is because of a plan he never supported till it gave him the "victory".

The really sad thing in all this is somehow I bet LAGC is more worried about loss of the money that could of went to his kind so they might not have to work. I really don't think he has an opinion on anything not driven by "whats in it for me"...

[LAGC]

The really sad thing in all this is somehow I bet LAGC is more worried about loss of the money that could of went to his kind so they might not have to work. I really don't think he has an opinion on anything not driven by "whats in it for me"...

The entire war was unfunded to begin with. That TRILLION dollars was pure deficit spending, and all the interest on that debt will likely inflate that number to $3 TRILLION or more over 50 years before its ever paid down, if ever. (And that's not even counting all the V.A. expenses for caring for all those wounded soldiers over the next 50 years.)

Thank the deity that McCain isn't president, or we would have never pulled out. There would have been even more troops put into harms way, as he would have committed U.S. troops for "100 years if that's what it takes." Endless war.

[ATAK, Inc.]

The entire war was unfunded to begin with. That TRILLION dollars was pure deficit spending, and all the interest on that debt will likely inflate that number to $3 TRILLION or more over 50 years before its ever paid down, if ever. (And that's not even counting all the V.A. expenses for caring for all those wounded soldiers over the next 50 years.)

Thank the deity that McCain isn't president, or we would have never pulled out. There would have been even more troops put into harms way, as he would have committed U.S. troops for "100 years if that's what it takes." Endless war.


OK, first off, the entire war cost NEARLY $900,000,000,000. While there is not much difference between $90 and $100, there is a huge difference between $900B and $1 Trillion.

Secondly, you speak of "phantom" WMD's. True, none were found but even in my eyes the dictator who used them on his neighbor and own people had them. Seeing as that is a lot of desert, we may never know what happened to them. Bottom line, it is fact that Saddam had them and had no problem in using them!

Thirdly, you are a lower than pond scum sucking leach on society who has absolutely no clue!

[mriddick]

The entire war was unfunded to begin with. That TRILLION dollars was pure deficit spending, and all the interest on that debt will likely inflate that number to $3 TRILLION or more over 50 years before its ever paid down, if ever. (And that's not even counting all the V.A. expenses for caring for all those wounded soldiers over the next 50 years.)

Thank the deity that McCain isn't president, or we would have never pulled out. There would have been even more troops put into harms way, as he would have committed U.S. troops for "100 years if that's what it takes." Endless war.

The point was you're more then happy to spend the equivalent amount of money on give aways to those who won't work so I think it’s alittle disingenuous to act like the money would of been saved under any plan you’d support.

[El Laton Caliente]

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Gerald Ford (R) who was president when Saigon fell in 1975?

The Dem congress defunded military aid and the south literately ran out of ammunition and fuel.

[Warthogg]

The Dem congress defunded military aid and the south literately ran out of ammunition and fuel.

El Lat, South Vietnamese politicians and generals had continually stolen much of the fuel and ammunition money plus the pay for their troops. Ultimately, though there was much for the South Vietnamese soldier to fight against, there was little for which to fight.


Wart

[Justin]

El Lat, South Vietnamese politicians and generals had continually stolen much of the fuel and ammunition money plus the pay for their troops. Ultimately, though there was much for the South Vietnamese soldier to fight against, there was little for which to fight.


Wart

I also read that the South Vietnamese army would promote soldiers based on their social status, and as a result had a lousy military.

[imanaknut]

No clear victory? If the USA had some backbone in 1938 and did to Hitler what we did to Hussein we would never have had the death camps, and this would very likely be a different world as many of the scientists murdered later by Hitler and his blind followers might have found the cures to many diseases.

Not saying the Iraqi people were as advanced as those murdered by Hitler, but we will never know how far Hussein would have gone if we ignored him. After all, using similar logic, Adolph Hitler never attacked the USA either, right?

[Warthogg]

The only reason he's able to pull out today with any chance of looking like the job is finished is because of a plan he never supported till it gave him the "victory".



Dear GOD there is no "victory". Barry is pulling out because the Dubya administration's SOFA agreement called for all US troops to be gone by 12/31/2011. (Iran approved the agreement before Iraq would sign.) I do not count China's oil concessions a US victory. In an ocean of shit if you must have a victor then Iran is that victor.


I think the goal in Iraq was to draw out those who would be willing to take up arms and plan to attack Americans and kill them. I also believe it was to teach those who would support those who would take up arms and plan to attack Americans that we'd bring the war to their backyard. In that I think we were very successful.


You have posted this before and I've struggled to not respond. I want to believe you haven't actually read and considered your above post.


Wart

[Warthogg]

I also read that the South Vietnamese army would promote soldiers based on their social status, and as a result had a lousy military.

CORRECT.


Wart

[Warthogg]

After all, using similar logic, Adolph Hitler never attacked the USA either, right?

Correct. Adolph Hitler (Germany) declared war on the United States of America.


Wart

[mriddick]

You have posted this before and I've struggled to not respond. I want to believe you haven't actually read and considered your above post.


WartIt's been documented that fighters from all over went to Iraq to wage war on the closest Americans they could find. I also believe we went to war because Saddam's plot to kill an ex President (Bush Sr) which probably counts as well in the whole kill them there VS catch them here plan. After alqueada moved into Iraq there were plans found linking planned attacks on US soil to those killed in Iraq.
At this point that I believe is pretty much history...

[Warthogg]

I also believe we went to war because Saddam's plot to kill an ex President (Bush Sr) which probably counts as well.....

Yeah I think the plot to kill Bush I figured in though I don't know much.

There is something missing from this whole Iraq deal from before Gulf War I. Bush I's Ambassador to Iraq (April Glaspie) gave Saddam the green light to invade Kuwait. WHY ??

Maybe Bush I simply wanted to spike oil prices. The House of Bush and the House of Saud had been/still are asshole buddies for years.

Anyway, I'm not sure why. I will not be offended if you or anyone does not believe this to be true. CNN had sold out to Saddam and I saw the interview of Ambassador Glaspie and Saddam twice in the same night on CNN. Never saw or heard of it again.


Wart

[Krupski]

Let people with oppressive governments wage their own revolutions, like in Libya, and let us not spill any more American blood under false pretenses and "nation building" with ulterior motives, ever again.

There are no "false pretenses". Bell, Boeing, ATK, General Dynamics, etc... need those "defense" dollars. Americans want that oil.

America will always be at war with someone.

If we run out of real enemies, we'll just stage another Reichstag fire and pin the blame on the next donkey...

As far as our soldiers... our sons and daughters... to the government and defense contractors, they are just expendable pawns. If it makes them money, it's OK by them.

I wonder how many sons and daughters of defense contractors or politicians serve in our military? Not many I'll bet. They don't want THEIR kids to die for them, they want OUR kids to die for them.

[Krupski]

Correct. Adolph Hitler (Germany) declared war on the United States of America.

Wart

He was required to because Germany and Japan were allies. The fact that Hitler HONORED the agreement, however, is quite amazing. And tactically, quite a big mistake (for him).

[Texas Soldado]

Now that the 'war is over'. President Zero can get to the business of thrashing the 2nd Amendment while pointing to 'All the guns traced back to the US'.

I find 0re0-Ba-Mao's posturing as if he won the war disgusting. He is lower than the dog crap on the bottom of my boots.

I wasn't sold on the war but as a career Soldier I went as 'requested' to Afghanistan, Iraq and Haiti. It tears my soul that so many fellow servicemen and women were lost and those who were crippled or maimed.

Was Afghanistan or Iraq 'worth it'? I may never know inside my own self, but I do know when I see that POS president posing as a victorious leader after all the crap he threw as a US Senator, I just want to puke.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Sort of odd yesterday hearing the President talk about the surge winning the war when he was not only agaisnt it but ran as President as being against it. The only reason he's able to pull out today with any chance of looking like the job is finished is because of a plan he never supported till it gave him the "victory".

The really sad thing in all this is somehow I bet LAGC is more worried about loss of the money that could of went to his kind so they might not have to work. I really don't think he has an opinion on anything not driven by "whats in it for me"...

Him and his vice dopey lamenting how our troops terrorize women and children in the middle of the night, and bomb innocent villagers....I remember, It's amazing how he can fake respect. Then again he's a fake illegitimate president.

[Warthogg]

Now that the 'war is over'. President Zero can get to the business of thrashing the 2nd Amendment while pointing to 'All the guns traced back to the US'.

I find 0re0-Ba-Mao's posturing as if he won the war disgusting. He is lower than the dog crap on the bottom of my boots.

I wasn't sold on the war but as a career Soldier I went as 'requested' to Afghanistan, Iraq and Haiti. It tears my soul that so many fellow servicemen and women were lost and those who were crippled or maimed.

Was Afghanistan or Iraq 'worth it'? I may never know inside my own self, but I do know when I see that POS president posing as a victorious leader after all the crap he threw as a US Senator, I just want to puke.

ROLLLLL TIDE !!


Wart

And thank you for your service to our country.

[Warthogg]

Quote Originally Posted by Warthogg View Post
Correct. Adolph Hitler (Germany) declared war on the United States of America.

Wart



He was required to because Germany and Japan were allies. The fact that Hitler HONORED the agreement, however, is quite amazing. And tactically, quite a big mistake (for him).

The Tripartite Pact, an agreement between Germany, Japan and Italy, did not call for Germany to declare war. (Strange huh..)

Here is Japan requesting Germany declare war:


From: Berlin

To: Tokyo

December 8, 1941

Purple (Priority)

#1437 Limited distribution





Re my #143(9?).[a]



At 1:00 p. m. today (8th) I called on Foreign Minister Ribbentrop and told him our wish was to have Germany and Italy issue formal declarations of war on America at once. Ribbentrop replied that Hitler was then in the midst of a conference at general headquarters discussing how the formalities of declaring war could be carried out so as to make a good impression on the German people, and that he would transmit your wish to him at once and do whatever he was able to have it carried out promptly. At that time Ribbentrop told me that on the morning of the 8th Hitler issued orders to the entire German navy to attack American ships whenever and wherever they may meet them.



It goes without saying that this is only for your secret information.



Army 25978 Trans. 12/9/41



[a] Not available.



(EXHIBITS OF JOINT COMMITTEE , EXHIBIT NO. 1 INTERCEPTED DIPLOMATIC MESSAGES SENT BY THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT BETWEEN JULY l AND DECEMBER 8, 1941)

[Warthogg]

Here is Germany's declaration of war delivered in Washington at 8:00AM but not received by the US State Department until 9:30AM 11 December 1941. (State kept the Germans waiting one and one-half hours.)

The original war declaration was delivered to the US Chargé d'Affaires in Berlin.


MR. MR. CHARGÉ D'AFFAIRES:

The Government of the United States having violated in the most flagrant manner and in ever increasing measure all rules of neutrality in favor of the adversaries of Germany and having continually been guilty of the most severe provocations toward Germany ever since the outbreak of the European war, provoked by the British declaration of war against Germany on September 3, 1939, has finally resorted to open military acts of aggression.

On September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces. Thus, American destroyers, as for instance the Greer, the Kearney and the Reuben James, have opened fire on German sub-marines according to plan. The Secretary of the American Navy, Mr. Knox, himself confirmed that-American destroyers attacked German submarines.

Furthermore, the naval forces of the United States, under order of their Government and contrary to international law have treated and seized German merchant vessels on the high seas as enemy ships.

The German Government therefore establishes the following facts:

Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war.

The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America.

Accept, Mr. Chargé d'Affaires, the expression of my high consideration.

December 11, 1941.

RIBBENTROP. :

[Warthogg]

PRESIDENT ROOSEVELT'S MESSAGE TO CONGRESS

{Requesting recognition of a State of War existing between the United States and Germany and the United States and Italy, December 11, 1941)



On the morning of 11 December, the Government of Germany, pursuing its course of world conquest, declared war against the United States.

The long-known and the long-expected has thus taken place. The forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemisphere.

Never before has there been a greater challenge to life, liberty, and civilization.

Delay invites greater danger. Rapid and united effort by all of the peoples of the world who are determined to remain free will ensure a world victory of the forces of justice and of righteousness over the forces of savagery and of barbarism.

Italy also has declared war against the United States.

I therefore request the Congress to recognize a state of war between the United States and Germany, and between the United States and Italy.



Wart

[Warthogg]

And finally the US declares war on Germany.

Wart


Joint Resolution Declaring That a State of War Exists Between The Government of Germany and the Government and the People of the United States and Making Provision To Prosecute The Same, 11 December 1941

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the Government and the people of the United States of America:

Therefore be it

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

Approved, December 11, 1941, 3:05 p.m., E. S. T.

[Krupski]

And finally the US declares war on Germany.

Wart

...and I believe that was the last time America ever legally declared war on anyone....

[Warthogg]

...and I believe that was the last time America ever legally declared war on anyone....

Yup.


Was interesting going back to that time. Roosevelt maneuvered Hitler into declaring war.

......

To the best of my knowledge 7 December 1941 was the only time the US Sub Fleet was ever ordered to wage "unrestricted submarine warfare".


Following the attack, the American submarine fleet received at 4:00pm on the afternoon of 7 December 1941 orders issued by Admiral Harold Stark, the Chief of Naval Operations, for all available boats to immediately put to sea and for those already underway to conduct "unrestricted submarine warfare" against anything Japanese.

The primary task of of the United States fleet was to attack heavy ships (defined as a battleship, aircraft carrier, cruiser etc). It is important to note the gravity of this very powerful decree. The United States, by calling for unrestricted submarine warfare, officially renounced article 22 of the London Naval Treaty of 1930 which formally spelled out the guidelines and procedures that a submarine was required to follow when attacking an enemy non combatant vessel.


I just want to mention the US Submarine Service was undoubtedly the most UNDER-DECORATED of any US service mostly due to concerns over secrecy.

[blacksheep]

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Gerald Ford (R) who was president when Saigon fell in 1975?

Kennedy got the ball rolling, now what douche ?

[N/A]

Kennedy got the ball rolling, now what douche ?

No, it was Eisenhower.

[Partisan1983]

No, it was Eisenhower.

Actually it was WWI.

[N/A]

Actually it was WWI.

Well, I think the thought was when did America first get involved in Viet Nam to eventually get us into the "Viet Nam War". I think it was President Eisenhower after the French were defeated.

[Warthogg]

Well, I think the thought was when did America first get involved in Viet Nam to eventually get us into the "Viet Nam War". I think it was President Eisenhower after the French were defeated.


(Eisenhower was president from January 1953 - January 1961.)
The French were defeated at Dien Bien Phu in 1954 and the last French soldier departed Vietnam in 1956.
Maybe as early as 1953 Eisenhower was sending US advisers along with supplies for the French.
In 1955 the first direct aid from the US was sent to South Vietnam.
July 8, 1959 - Two U.S. military advisers, Maj. Dale Buis and Sgt. Chester Ovnand, are killed by Viet Minh guerrillas at Bien Hoa, South Vietnam......our first casualties.


Wart

Hard to find the good guys in Vietnam. In the North, the Communists had executed or worked to death the land owners while in the South the Catholic minority had stolen the Buddhists land and killed many.

[arcangel]

I am happy that the war in Iraq is over, but the conditions aren't great. Our military killed a lot more of those motherfuckers than they did to us, so that can be considered a win. I lost 3 friends in Iraq, 2 Marines and 1 soldier. And 2 Marine friends in A-stan. Our military has learned a great deal of knowledge in these wars, and they'll take it home with them. What I fear is after we leave the country goes right down the shit hole and we wind up helping again. But I am happy that our brothers and sisters who served there can now come home and get some rest from war.