Spaz 12

[Escobert]

My friend got one of these in a private sale, He has no class 3 license or anything. The gun is select fire 12 gauge and while he was shooting at the range with it a game warden heard him blast off some fully auto and came to check it out. Long story short the gun was taken from him but nothing ever came about it. I'm wondering if this was legal to do? basically the warden just took the gun for his own collection saying my friend wasn't legally able to own it. Was he able to own a gun that was originally purchased before the weapons ban and sold to him through private sale?

[Helen Keller]

He just took it???


Your friend have a lawyer?




a full auto Spas-12 .... :tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil:

[El Laton Caliente]

Spas-12 was a semi... It isn't even a DD like the street sweeper as it feeds from a tube. Was the FA just a slam fire malfunction?

The GW committed theft. He could take it as evidence, but nothing else.

[Escobert]

Ok so I just called my friend, since I never shot this gun only held it.

You can move the pump forward and lock it into place and the gun become auto meaning no pump action is required to fire it.

And yes, the Game Warden just took it. Never did any paperwork or anything just pt it in his truck and left.

[abpt1]

The auto selector is for gas to pump operation. The rest was just IMO slam firing due to dirt is my guess ...Call the game warden and tell them your about to call the Police dept and report your gun stolen.

[btcave]

State game wardens don't enforce federal firearm laws. He stole it.

[Escobert]

The gun had been thoroughly cleaned and never fired when he purchased it so it's not due to dirt build up. I just asked him about how the pump action locked and he said "there's a button on the front end of the pump you push it, then move the pump to the forward position then it locks and you have full auto and vise versa for pump action"

[abpt1]

The gun had been thoroughly cleaned and never fired when he purchased it so it's not due to dirt build up. I just asked him about how the pump action locked and he said "there's a button on the front end of the pump you push it, then move the pump to the forward position then it locks and you have full auto and vise versa for pump action"

Short of an illegal conversion or maybe a prototype that I dont know about Spaz has never released a FA spas12. ..The auto selector is for the gas or manual operation .

[Escobert]

all we know is the gun was purchased in the 80's then sold to the former owner. he then sold it to my friend for around $1,000.

[gpwasr10]

If it went F/A then it was slamfiring. The button under the grip simply turns it from pump to SEMI-automatic fire.

The GW ganked your buddies peice.

[Helen Keller]

You buddy needs to get on the ball.

[Escobert]

I think his big thing is going to be how much it would cost to get the gun back that he might not even be able to own which is why I was asking if it was legal for him to own in the first place.

[imanaknut]

The manual might call it a Sporting Purpose Automatic Shotgun, but it was either semi-auto or pump action. My opinion, and my opinion only, there is something missing from this story.

[Escobert]

The only thing I can think of is the original owner somehow did something with the gun that made it like this. My friend only had the gun for about 2 weeks before it was taken from him so he really didn't have a lot of info on it. I've posted everything he's told me which is everything he knows about the gun. He pushed the button pulled the pump forward locked it in place and pulled the trigger until it was empty. Like I said I never shot the gun or even saw it being shot. I only held it for about 5 minutes shortly after he purchased it.

[El Laton Caliente]

Guys, broken firing pin spring causing slam fire in semi?

When the slide is back it should be: pump-pull trigger-fire-pump-pull trigger-fire

With the slide locked forward it should be: pull trigger-fire-pull trigger-fire-pull trigger-fire-pull trigger-fire-

Anything else is a malfunction or it has been altered.

[Penguin]

Well I would guess based on what you have said your friend is mixing up semi-auto and full auto and doesn't know the difference between the two.

If it is firing semi-auto and not full auto it sounds to me like your friend got screwed and I would be reporting it.

If it was indeed firing full auto I am guessing he got off lucky in that some one didn't throw the book at him for having an illegal machinegun.

I would bet though there has to be more to this story than we know. I can't imagine a game warden taking a SPAS-12 that is in working order away for no reason.

Where did this happen? Was he shooting some where that he wasn't supposed to be? Or is there some state law that bans this gun?

[abpt1]

Well I would guess based on what you have said your friend is mixing up semi-auto and full auto and doesn't know the difference between the two.

If it is firing semi-auto and not full auto it sounds to me like your friend got screwed and I would be reporting it.

If it was indeed firing full auto I am guessing he got off lucky in that some one didn't throw the book at him for having an illegal machinegun.

I would bet though there has to be more to this story than we know. I can't imagine a game warden taking a SPAS-12 that is in working order away for no reason.

Where did this happen? Was he shooting some where that he wasn't supposed to be? Or is there some state law that bans this gun?
IDK but its gotta be plugged in pa lol !

[Escobert]

Well I would guess based on what you have said your friend is mixing up semi-auto and full auto and doesn't know the difference between the two.

If it is firing semi-auto and not full auto it sounds to me like your friend got screwed and I would be reporting it.

If it was indeed firing full auto I am guessing he got off lucky in that some one didn't throw the book at him for having an illegal machinegun.

I would bet though there has to be more to this story than we know. I can't imagine a game warden taking a SPAS-12 that is in working order away for no reason.

Where did this happen? Was he shooting some where that he wasn't supposed to be? Or is there some state law that bans this gun?

I live in Vermont who has about the most lax gun laws in the country and he was at a outdoor shooting range. The reason the warden came was because he heard automatic fire at the range and wanted to check it out.

[El Laton Caliente]

Was he just shooting rapid OR

did he pull the trigger back ONE TIME and empty the gun?

[Escobert]

Yes one trigger pull held down emptied the gun.

just asked again about how it selected fire
"on the top it had A and M. A in the forward position meant Automatic, and M was Manuel or pump action
It also had a cool AR style bolt slide type thing, but that's unrelated
you could put shells in then push the button to close the slide and chamber a round"

[El Laton Caliente]

I shopped Spas-12s for many years. Bought a Law-12, then decided the parts issue wasn't worth what I would pay for a Spas. I have never seen a FA Spas...

[Escobert]

I honestly have no idea, I've only ever owned an ak a 1911 and a 20 gauge break action. Never been a big shotgun person. I as wondering more of the legality of the Warden taking the gun from him and if he could do anything to get it back.

[imanaknut]

If in fact it was a full auto shotgun, and for arguments let us assume it is, the gentleman who took it away from your friend did him a favor. He could have called ATF and your friend would have been introduced to Bubba and had him as a buddy for 10 years, as well as being many dollars poorer.

[Escobert]

sounds good lol
thanks for all the input guys. I don't think he's going to go after the Warden for it for the exact reason stated above by aknut. I just don't like people using their authority to their advantage and was wondering if this warden had done so.

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

http://www.coolstorybro.co/image/1215-cool-story-bro-flashing-cool-story-bro-image.gif

[l921428x]

If in fact it was a full auto shotgun, and for arguments let us assume it is, the gentleman who took it away from your friend did him a favor. He could have called ATF and your friend would have been introduced to Bubba and had him as a buddy for 10 years, as well as being many dollars poorer. Nut would this not also apply to the GW, he now owns a stolen, f/a shotty. This guys friend can plead ignorance, if the GW knows it is f/a isn't that intent?

[El Laton Caliente]

I would have to say yes to that. Not even a LEO can own a post 1986 as a personal weapon, let alone a stolen, unregistered one...

[imanaknut]

Nut would this not also apply to the GW, he now owns a stolen, f/a shotty. This guys friend can plead ignorance, if the GW knows it is f/a isn't that intent?

According to ATF and rulings of the past, ignorance will not get you out of owning an ATF declared illegal firearm. In fact, according to ATF, if a semi-auto malfunctions and fires more than one round per trigger pull, even if it can be repaired back to proper factory semi condition, you are still in violation of the 1934 NFA if it isn't papered and the papers prior to the 1986 machine gun act or what ever that bull was called.

As for the game warden, I am sure if ATF went to his house, the SPAS would either not be there, or he would have some excuse pertaining to fellow law officer and the like. I don't know what it is like in Vermont, but here in Indiana the conservation officers as we call them have more police power than even our state police!

[Escobert]

Yeah, it's same here in VT they have more power than state police.

[RJ Shooter]

Having been a former owner of a Franchi SPAS-12, they were not a Fully Automatic shotgun. And NEVER were... If this event actually occurred, the firearm was defective and probably had a firing pin that was stuck in the exposed position...

I had one of the beautiful skeleton stocks with the hook! :p

http://spas12.com/spas12intro2.htm

[Partisan1983]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I held one years ago, and I didn't care for it one bit (fixed stock).


I went for the Benelli M3 instead.....(but that's just me).

[NAPOTS]

I have always thought they were cool and wonded why they were never imported in a pump only configuration.

That said though, they wouldn't be any more effective at that point than an 870 or 590.

[Notch]

i'm sorry to be "that guy" but either the OP's friend is mistaken in his termanology and "full" auto to him means semi automatic, or he is lying. i am siding with the lie explanation. there is NO WAY some deputy dog, or whatever he was, is going to let some feller with an "un papered" full auto walk away. just aint going to happen , no way, no how.

[Bluntforce]

I have only seen them in movies so I'm totally ignant about it. I just want to say how glad I am that I live in BFE and can test fire all my crap in seclusion. Won't help me with a slamfire if a pin breaks while firing but I can discover that I have one before firing at a public range for the first tme.

Let's hear it for BFE! :wootrock:

[Schuetzenman]

The gun had been thoroughly cleaned and never fired when he purchased it so it's not due to dirt build up. I just asked him about how the pump action locked and he said "there's a button on the front end of the pump you push it, then move the pump to the forward position then it locks and you have full auto and vise versa for pump action"
Unless somebody did some illegal gunsmithing on it, it is semi-auto when not a pump. Meaning one pull of the trigger equals a fired round. I've shot a stock SPAS 12 and they are not machine guns. The game warden is not authorized by law to confiscate weapons unless there's poaching involved. He best be giving the weapon back or face felony theft charges.

[tank_monkey]

Having been a former owner of a Franchi SPAS-12, they were not a Fully Automatic shotgun. And NEVER were... If this event actually occurred, the firearm was defective and probably had a firing pin that was stuck in the exposed position...

I had one of the beautiful skeleton stocks with the hook! :p

http://spas12.com/spas12intro2.htm

You guys already seen ONE PIC of one of my SPAS shotguns. I own 2 SPAS-12s. I know quite a few other SPAS owners. I was reading through this entire thread, mystified by the OP's response. He didn't understand the function of the SEMI AUTO button, he kept calling it a full auto button, which was kinda irritating. Franchi NEVER made a full auto SPAS-12 ever. I don't think anyone has ever converted one, considering that it has a tube magazine. I can see converting a drum or stick magazine fed semi auto gun like the USAS-12 or the SAIGA. The SPAS-12s DO slamfire auto sometimes but like our very WISE MEMBERSHIP has said many times, it's due to filth mucking up the works inside. If he cleaned the gun, he still missed the internals of the bolt (which is easy to do on the SPAS). As far as the GW confiscating it, that's BS. I hope your friend gets his gun back.

[nfa1934]

i'm sorry to be "that guy" but either the OP's friend is mistaken in his termanology and "full" auto to him means semi automatic, or he is lying. i am siding with the lie explanation. there is NO WAY some deputy dog, or whatever he was, is going to let some feller with an "un papered" full auto walk away. just aint going to happen , no way, no how.

Actually they will let someone walk away if they just want to steal the gun. A couple of deputies from the Crockett County, TN sheriff's department tried this same shit with me about fifteen years ago over a full-auto BM59. Difference was, unlike this guy's buddy, I knew I was legal and wasn't going to let them steal my lawfully owned property.

[jackguns]

The Spas 12 had a safety button issue and was recalled. Some got theirs fixed but most did not. That could be the reason it went full auto. Could have jambed the sear down. however the gun was stolen. If it was a real game warden it was still stolen. I can buy a game warden badge on line and steal somebodies gun too. This stinks and I would call ATF. If everything is legit, the most ATF would do is tell ya to get it repaired

I can not believe this happened under any circumstance. A gold badge is not a license to steal