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jman245
02-14-2012, 09:21 AM
i have a guy selling a nhm91. He is asking says it has never been fired.How do I tell it hasnt?He has the box,sling,5rnd mag,etc. Asking $700.Thanks...

Schuetzenman
02-14-2012, 09:37 AM
Bolt face and gas piston / gas tube. The bolt face will have residue of cases and primer sealant usually if fired. The gas piston will have baked on carbon so it will look black on the face of the piston facing the gas port. Very difficult to get off, though it can be with effort. Piston is chrome plated. Inside of the gas tube is also a bit hard to clean as well as the gas port in the gas block that the tube mates up to. If all that looks clean of carbon, it hasn't been fired most likely.

I personally think 7 bills is high. Granted the NHM91 is not as common as many models of Chinese Post (Bush) ban AK types. Still I'd try and talk him down by making a starting offer of 6. Fan out 6 C-notes and see what his reaction is. NHM91 rifles in my expereince aren't that much more accurate than a 16 inch barreled Mak90 type. You'd think they would be but barrel length isn't everything.

Rainman
02-14-2012, 12:17 PM
The ol "Never Fired" quandry. I personally think it is highly over rated. First of all, most weapons are test fired at the factory, and poorly cleaned anyway. Most, if not all, will exhibit signs of "firing". A rifle that has been shot 1-200 times is a hell of a lot easier to tell if there is abnormal wear, or misfit parts. Most, if not all self loading weapons need a little break in time to be 100% reliable. I like when someone else has paid for the ammo to do that.

Look at the exterior of the rifle, is it clean and oiled? Check the interior parts. Are all the parts that move against something else wearing uniformly and withour burrs or galling? Are the locking surfaces and face of the bolt wearing with nice wide polishing, or is it a thin wear spot indicitive of poor fitment. Is the extractor face worn, or the barrel extension where the extractor meets galled or excessivley worn? Does the firing pin protrude freely when pressed from the rear of the bolt? Is it nice and round, or chipped. Is the extractor claw, the part that engages the case chipped or burred?

Regardless of the round count, these are the primary visual once overs that I look at. To me, round count means nothing, and is the most oft lie told by sellers. If all the mating/moving parts are silver and worn looking, it is well worn, and the round count is up there. If they are just scratched a little, then the round count is nill. A little carbon on the piston, and in the gas tube could be the 4-5 bangs at the factory with crappy ChiCom ammo (if they even did that at all.

I saw a post on YouTube by a guy that was professing to show what to look for on a used AK. He spent the most time talking about the scratch left on the receiver from the safety, and the scratch left on the sight block by the upper handguard disassembly lever. These are the two LEAST IMPORTANT things. Somebody that has never fired the rifle can play with the safety and take the rifle down, causing these marks rather quickly. They are purely cosmetic.

Again, the "Never Fired" selling point is WAY over rated, and not worth a dime in my book. It is most likely a lie, and again, means very little anyway.

Good luck with your purchase!

imanaknut
02-14-2012, 01:22 PM
Schuetzenman, check Gunbroker. It seems that almost everyone with an NHM-91 is trying to get rid of them. I have never seen so many for auction at one time!

One of the ways I tell if an AK variant has been fired more than just at the factory is the rear of the receiver. Unless the owner has used a recoil buffer, the carrier and bolt will leave a witness mark on the rear trunion just under where the recoil spring locks into.

Another location people don't always clean is under the barrel in the area the bolt locks into. A little gray coming out from there is ok, but if you push a clean white patch under the barrel and it comes out black, that usually indicates more than the couple of rounds most factories put through the.

As stated, the bolt face is very hard to hide any shooting marks. The round fired leave a nice circle around the firing pin hole and that is very hard to clean off. Also check under the extractor as many people clean the groove in the bolt face, but forget under the extractor.

Another area is the flat where the extension to the gas piston meets with the area of the charging handle above where the bolt rides. A lot of people forget that firing residue collects there too!

While I think $700 is too high, the rifle should also have a bipod in the box, either mounted on the rifle or in a separate slot in the styrofoam.

Good luck.

Rainman
02-14-2012, 02:21 PM
One of the ways I tell if an AK variant has been fired more than just at the factory is the rear of the receiver. Unless the owner has used a recoil buffer, the carrier and bolt will leave a witness mark on the rear trunion just under where the recoil spring locks into.


Oops, forgot about that one. Good call.

jman245
02-15-2012, 11:23 AM
Man,i love this site!everyone is very helpful! thanks guys!