? came from another post. Home shotty...

[l921428x]

How is your home defence shotty loaded?
I use an assortment of shells. Mine carries five and is loaded as such, 8 shot, 00, slug, 00, 8 shot. I am not really sure why I have chosen this group of shells in this order.
Maybe that decussion can also be apart of this thread.

[Bluntforce]

When I used one, slugs. Did not want to hit anyone but who I wanted to. Also did not want walls providing them cover. Now I use underfolder AK, it's shorter and everyone here is now ambulatory and grown up. No need to worry if 7.62x39 will overcome winter clothing or not. Shotguns are too long for home defense for me.

[mriddick]

OO buck, I have heard of people loading different loads in a tube for various reasons although I sort of doubt many in a firefight will be able to remember the order of different loads.

[Helen Keller]

Bed/living room guns. All 00 Buck w/slugs in reserve.


Kitchen . First is a Slug rest are buck cause I'll more than likely have to use it on something 4 legged.


Really wanna try out my breacher rounds and see what they can do within 15'

[Silicon Wolverine]

slugs. because my kitches table has a 3" thick solid oak top, and if an assailant flips it over and takes cover behind it, i want to be able to punch through and take him out.

SW

[alismith]

Mine's loaded with 00 Buck. If I need more, I have, within a few steps at most, an SKS with 20 rnds. of ammo and a .44. Past that I have two more shotguns and a .44 Mag. Past that, I'm jumping out the back window.

[old Grump]

My shotty is a computer program that takes screen shots and saves them for me.

My shotguns on the other hand are mostly loaded with #4 shot for use inside the house but I have a goodly supply of 00 and slugs in case things get serious.

[El Laton Caliente]

Either #4 Buck or 00 Buck...

[ninner]

One #9 followed by 00 buck, the 9 is mainly for pests in the yard.

[American Rage]

00 buck all the way!

[Richard Simmons]

OO Buck in mine.

[Schuetzenman]

Buckshot #4 or 00. Bird shot will mostly piss them off and you might only get one good shot at a home intruder. Better use ammo that can do something lethal vs. just chew up the first 1.5" of flesh.

[old Grump]

Buckshot #4 or 00. Bird shot will mostly piss them off and you might only get one good shot at a home intruder. Better use ammo that can do something lethal vs. just chew up the first 1.5" of flesh.I kind of thought you of all people would know better. Fiocchi shot gun shell, 2 3/4" #4 shot out of a 20 gauge at 8 yards at a MAPP can. Shotgun was a Mossberg 500C with an IM choke. Most of the shot hit the can, 4 pellets penetrated the can. The can was hit hard enough that it was squashed to half of its original thickness. If that pisses off a boogerman good. The next 4 rounds will piss him off even more. I chose 8 yards for this test because it is the longest shot possible in my house. More likely would be 3 to 5 yards, maybe less. Cheney nearly killed a man at 30 yards with #7 1/2 shot when one pellet came to a stop near that lawyers heart. No lawyer jokes, it almost killed him and that is a fact. You really don't think #4 at 8 yards or less wouldn't be effective? http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg585/scaled.php?server=585&filename=afterno4birdshot.jpg&res=medium

[American Rage]

Birdshot is for birds.

If the home invader is extra fat, muscled up, or wearing heavy winter clothing, there is no tell what might go wrong.

Why take chances?

[old Grump]

Birdshot is for birds.

If the home invader is extra fat, muscled up, or wearing heavy winter clothing, there is no tell what might go wrong.

Why take chances?So you think his goretex jacket and 80 pounds of beer fat will make him tougher than that MAPP can?

[El Laton Caliente]

I'm more likely to take on a wild pig than a home invader... I'll stick with 00 mostly.

[American Rage]

So you think his goretex jacket and 80 pounds of beer fat will make him tougher than that MAPP can?

I don't know what a MAPP can is, I do know that I've read stories about events where birdshot didn't get the job done. Why chance it, unless you live in an area where it would be easy to injure innocents.

[Schuetzenman]

I kind of thought you of all people would know better. Fiocchi shot gun shell, 2 3/4" #4 shot out of a 20 gauge at 8 yards at a MAPP can. Shotgun was a Mossberg 500C with an IM choke. Most of the shot hit the can, 4 pellets penetrated the can. The can was hit hard enough that it was squashed to half of its original thickness. If that pisses off a boogerman good. The next 4 rounds will piss him off even more. I chose 8 yards for this test because it is the longest shot possible in my house. More likely would be 3 to 5 yards, maybe less. Cheney nearly killed a man at 30 yards with #7 1/2 shot when one pellet came to a stop near that lawyers heart. No lawyer jokes, it almost killed him and that is a fact. You really don't think #4 at 8 yards or less wouldn't be effective? http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg585/scaled.php?server=585&filename=afterno4birdshot.jpg&res=medium

#4 shot is a lot bigger than #8 shot from the original posters statement. I personally don't know how Mapp gas canisters = to penetration on human flesh. Until I had buckshot I used #2 shot, even bigger than your #4. It's basic physics. Mass times speed = momentum and momentum helps the pellet to penetrate. Do you favor a .45 Auto or a .25 auto pistol for self defense? Same thing really bigger IS better. Small might work with luck and time but there are BETTER choices.

[skorpion]

13 rounds of Brenneke 2-3/4" 9-pellet 00-Buck. Mossberg 500 20" with 1 in the chamber, 7 in the magazine tube, and 5 on the stock.

I used to use #4 bird shot for the first two rounds until I realized how little penetration bird shot can obtain. In order to reach vital organs, you want a projectile(s) that can penetrate at least 12 inches of ballistic gelatin, according to the FBI. Bird shot will barely penetrate only half that distance in gelatin, whereas buckshot can attain a distance of 13+ inches and leave a devastating permanent wound cavity at close range. Judging by wound photos I have seen, bird shot will produce what appear to be "devastating" wounds, when, in fact, they are just superficial. Destroying flesh and tissue isn't a bad thing, but you also want to destroy the vital organs beneath that tissue to prevent Mr. Burglar from going crazy on you. However, I think we can all agree that in most cases, Mr. Burglar will be so scared that he will run the other direction faster than the speed of light upon experiencing the roar of a shotgun, no matter what's coming out of its barrel.

While the following focuses on handgun projectiles, it can be generally applied to any projectile used for self-defense:


It is essential that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not.
Source: http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
Special Agent Urey W. Patrick (1989). Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness [Electronic Version formatted by Firearmstactical.com]. US Department of Justice, F.B.I.

[old Grump]

I don't know what a MAPP can is, I do know that I've read stories about events where birdshot didn't get the job done. Why chance it, unless you live in an area where it would be easy to injure innocents.Mapp can is just the gas they use in a hand held torch mixed with oxygen it is haot enough to braze with. The can is the same as the little propane cyliners as you use with the Bernzomatic torches. Thick and tough.


#4 shot is a lot bigger than #8 shot from the original posters statement. I personally don't know how Mapp gas canisters = to penetration on human flesh. Until I had buckshot I used #2 shot, even bigger than your #4. It's basic physics. Mass times speed = momentum and momentum helps the pellet to penetrate. Do you favor a .45 Auto or a .25 auto pistol for self defense? Same thing really bigger IS better. Small might work with luck and time but there are BETTER choices.Precisely why I use #4 for my in house load and not #6 or smaller. I did my testing on frozen bottles of ice when it was -20 below and the can I did after another discussion on the same vein to see if I was wrong. The force to scrunch that can up like that at 8 yards has to hurt and since not many burglars are going to be wrapping themselves up in heavy body armor I can put the hurt on them without the fear of killing any family members. I didn't expect penetration and I know it isn't ballistic gel or a human body but one is expensive and it's hard to find volunteers. I have #3, BB, 00, 000 and slugs, in fact I just bought another case of 00 but I made my choice on my house layout and the number of people in it and most likely scenarios.

To your handgun question I am a pretty decent shot with my 45 and it has taken me pretty far in competition. I used a .357 mag for my deer gun for 26 years and shot PPC with it because I was in no position to get a rifle. Yet my bedside gun is that same .357 loaded with 38 spcl 158 gr LSWC for the same reason. It isn't the optimum choice but for in house distances I feel confident that it would ruin a boogerman's night and most of his next week assuming he survived till the ambulance got there. Average time for emergency response where I live is 35 minutes so that could be a problem for boogerman.

[American Rage]

So, what's the difference b/t #4 bird and #4 Turkey?

I ask b/c I do keep some 3" #4 Turkey loads around and once and awhile consider loading one or two in the shotgun just b/c so many bitch about 00 buck being too powerful.

[Schuetzenman]

So, what's the difference b/t #4 bird and #4 Turkey?

I ask b/c I do keep some 3" #4 Turkey loads around and once and awhile consider loading one or two in the shotgun just b/c so many bitch about 00 buck being too powerful.

Nothing is the difference, #4 shot is #4 shot unless it's #4 Buckshot. See this chart for sizes of bird to buck shot. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25868&d=1242928681

[raxar]

my preference is OO, however in a pinch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3M46XVfVOU

[old Grump]

So, what's the difference b/t #4 bird and #4 Turkey?

I ask b/c I do keep some 3" #4 Turkey loads around and once and awhile consider loading one or two in the shotgun just b/c so many bitch about 00 buck being too powerful.That Fiocchi shell was quite suitable for my my turkey load but I have Estate Hi Vel 2 3/4" #4 and Remington Turkey 3" #6 for my turkey loads, Either will work I just prefer the #4 and the extra 1/4" of shell isn't going to make that turkey any deader. The reason I used the Fiocchi for my test is I buy it by the case and shoot it in practice a lot so it is my dedicated HD load.




my preference is OO, however in a pinch
You can shoot cut shells in your gun and your house. Not my my house, my guns and not any gun with a decent choke or you will know pretty quick you just made a boo boo.

[skorpion]

Found a cool article on TTAG that would go well with this thread. It shows the results of most common 12 gauge shotgun loads after being fired into ballistic gelatin. Check it out and see how the shells you have in your home-defense shotgun perform:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/robert-farago/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/

I also came across this article while browsing. Some of you may have seen it before:

The Box O' Truth: Shooting through walls
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

[Woogiebear]

But I do keep a side saddle loaded with slugs and practice several times a week doing round change outs. My home defense holds 7 in the tube and one in the chamber if I want, but I only load it with 5 in the tube and chamber clear. If I have a home invader and have to take a precise shot with my Winchester 1300, I am confident I can get a slug in the tube fast enough to send down range within 1.5-2 seconds.