Torn between getting a hi-cap 9mm or a semi-auto AK-74 variant.

[was_peacemaker]

I haven't had a good pistol in several years and would like like to get either a Sig P2022 or save up the cash and get a Beretta 92 F/S. Even though I am not used to the trigger on the Beretta I do love the handling and the accuracy. I am thinking I can get used to the trigger for the sake of its handling and accuracy.

On the other hand I have been wanting a 74 variant for a while. I was shy about getting one years ago because I was not so sure that in a country dominated by 5.56mm/.223 weapons that the oddball Soviet 5.45 would catch on. No one wants to end up with a rifle they can't readily get mags and ammo for. Well it seems the little round has made a home here in the states. Even Hornady is making ammo for it now.

For right now though it appears that getting extra mags and ammo cached away for the SAR-1 is going to be my first goal. Kinda low on those things right now.

Next firearm purchase is got to be either a Sig/Beretta 9mm or a 74. I am leaning towards the 74 because I don't know how much longer I can get one with all the goodies like threaded barrel, bay lug, and folding stock. I would hate to pass on one now in the $500-$600 range, another AWB comes in place and they go sky high.

I do know this much...what ever pistol I am buying I am getting new with a warranty. What route should I take?

[Bluntforce]

Get the rifle, then stock up on the mags for the pistol you decide on.

The rifle will be harder to get than the mags for it. The standard mags for the pistol will be harder to get than the pistol itself.

As for which pistol, beats the shit out of me. I only buy Glocks.

[l921428x]

So you are used to the trigger on the Sig? 5.45 ammo is on sale for 241 for 2000+ rnds. ????

[was_peacemaker]

Get the rifle, then stock up on the mags for the pistol you decide on.

The rifle will be harder to get than the mags for it. The mags for the pistol will be harder to get than the standard mags for it.

As for which pistol, beats the shit out of me. I only buy Glocks.

So your saying buy the rifle, and then stock up on the hi-cap mags I want for the pistol of my choice until I can get the pistol. So therefore I have hi-cap mags for the pistol I want in case a AWB passes again. Makes sense. I like GLocls but I am not as accurate with them as I am with other brands.

[was_peacemaker]

So you are used to the trigger on the Sig? 5.45 ammo is on sale for 241 for 2000+ rnds. ????

Yep, I can handle the Sig's just fine and I like the triggers on them....though the handling, balance and accuracy of the Beretta is something I really like and am willing to learn the trigger for.

[Bluntforce]

So your saying buy the rifle, and then stock up on the hi-cap mags I want for the pistol of my choice until I can get the pistol. So therefore I have hi-cap mags for the pistol I want in case a AWB passes again. Makes sense. I like GLocls but I am not as accurate with them as I am with other brands.

Yes that is what I meant even though I didn't craft the sentence about the pistol very clearly.

I'm not as accurate with a Glock as with a 1911 or a Makarov. It's a matter of durability, simplicity and ammo availability. I had a faulty safety with a 1911, weaned me of blind patriotic love of an all American design, they can and do fail at critical moments. The Makarov has a bastard caliber that hasn't found an Old Kentucky Home yet. Neither one of them stand up to corrosion in a CCW capacity for me regardless of the Saudi oilfields I've drained trying to grease them up enough to save their finishes.

[NewbieAKguy]

Out of curiosity which safety series was the 1911 that gave you problems Bluntforce??

[insider]

Get the 74, lots of mags, and a couple cases of the 5.45x39 surplus. Then get the Beretta 92, with lots of high-cap mags, and several cases of 9mm. You will be real glad you did!

[Bluntforce]

Out of curiosity which safety series was the 1911 that gave you problems Bluntforce??

It was a beautiful Series 70 Colt Combat Commander. The safety plunger spring was bent, unbeknownst to me. The safety slipped back on when I was about to shoot a raccoon that was raiding a hen house. If it would have been an armed miscreant, it would have been a bullet in me instead of an escaped varmint that didn't even have a round set off behind him to discourage future visits.

An ex-Marine on another board diagnosed my problem and found he had the opposite (too stiff) while we were comparing notes.

It's found a home with a much richer owner who only conceal carries Glocks for the same reasons as I and it is now a safe queen. Safe from humid Oklahoma summers and sweaty fat guys.

[NewbieAKguy]

It was a beautiful Series 70 Colt Combat Commander. The safety plunger spring was bent, unbeknownst to me. The safety slipped back on when I was about to shoot a raccoon that was raiding a hen house. If it would have been an armed miscreant, it would have been a bullet in me instead of an escaped varmint that didn't even have a round set off behind him to discourage future visits.

An ex-Marine on another board diagnosed my problem and found he had the opposite (too stiff) while we were comparing notes.

It's found a home with a much richer owner who only conceal carries Glocks for the same reasons as I and it is now a safe queen. Safe from humid Oklahoma summers and sweaty fat guys.Any idea how the safety plunger spring got bent? I would lean toward someone reinstalling it wrong, but is chance factory QC missed it. Sorry to hijack the thread, but I just a took 1911 armorer's classes last weekend and took mine completely down for first time since I've had it.

And back to the subject, +1 with what insider says. All it takes is some trigger time to get used to a trigger. Biggest issue with the 92f/s is just the fact its a DA/SA system. An alternative would be to get a Taurus' clone to save some cash.

[l921428x]

Yep, I can handle the Sig's just fine and I like the triggers on them....though the handling, balance and accuracy of the Beretta is something I really like and am willing to learn the trigger for.

http://modernsurvivalonline.com/sig-sauer-2022-9mm-not-for-me/
Maybe try a different Sig Sauer.

[Bluntforce]

Any idea how the safety plunger spring got bent? I would lean toward someone reinstalling it wrong, but is chance factory QC missed it. Sorry to hijack the thread, but I just a took 1911 armorer's classes last weekend and took mine completely down for first time since I've had it.

Idiot previous owner reinstalling wrong, thought he was a gunsmith. I didn't use it often enough to discover the problem. I just knew they never failed and the mighty .45 acp would throw a 400 lbs. man on PCP 10 feet backward through the air flipping him at least two times. All the veterans said so.

[NewbieAKguy]

Idiot previous owner reinstalling wrong, thought he was a gunsmith. I didn't use it often enough to discover the problem. I just knew they never failed and the mighty .45 acp would throw a 400 lbs. man on PCP 10 feet backward through the air flipping him at least two times. All the veterans said so.Lol, someone's been watching too many movies/TV, especially Last Man Standing! Besides, I thought that was the almighty 10mm that did that.

[Schuetzenman]

My 2 cents is get the 74 now. Handguns are being made all the time. On Sig or Beretta, I'm going to Blutforce you by saying get a Glock.

I have been in a couple of pistol shooting events and I have out shot a bunch of 92 type Beretta and Taurs pistols. The Glock isn't as good as a match grade handgun but they are quite accurate if you learn how to control the weapon through the trigger pull. I put in a 3.5 LB. trigger connector after the last match I shot it in and that only made me shoot it better.

Glock has no safety to screw up or forget to take off. Once it's charged keep finger off trigger until you are ready to shoot. I've never seen a failure with any of my 19's or 21 with factory ammo of any bullet weight. Glock embodies the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid.

[Krupski]

I haven't had a good pistol in several years and would like like to get either a Sig P2022 or save up the cash and get a Beretta 92 F/S. Even though I am not used to the trigger on the Beretta I do love the handling and the accuracy. I am thinking I can get used to the trigger for the sake of its handling and accuracy.

I have a Beretta M9 (same thing as 92FS) and I love it. It's nicely balanced and very accurate. The trigger pull in DA mode is a bit long, but not bad at all. In SA mode, the trigger is perfect (just a little pressure and bang).

If you buy a Beretta 9mm, be careful what mags you get. Some USGI surplus mags like OKAY Industries are rough inside and this causes the follower to sometimes get stuck.

Since I have 12 of those mags, I decided to fix them instead of chuck them. I got a really coarse round wire brush and scrubbed the insides of the mag bodies with the brush (and oil). I scrubbed and polished until the inside was as smooth as a baby's behind. I also put in Wolff +10 springs. The mags now work flawlessly.

If you want to avoid that problem, be sure you buy "genuine" Beretta mags. I've heard Mec-Gar is also good, but I haven't tried those. The Beretta mags work flawlessly (I've got 6 of those).

With all that said... given a choice between a pistol or a rifle, I would buy a rifle first. :)

(edit to add): The Beretta pistols have a lot of PLASTIC parts in them (trigger, mainspring housing and guide rod). You can buy aluminum replacements for all those parts on Gunbroker.

I got rid of all the plastic on my M9 (except the grips - which are original black Beretta grips).

[O.S.O.K.]

OK, you have a SAR-1, mags and ammo but need more mags and ammo.

Do that before you get anything else.

Now, you have that taken care of. You have a good carbine set-up, but no pistol. So get the pistol next after that.

I like Sigs and Glocks and XD's and 1911's.

If you want the high cap then go that route - Sig is a great choice - get 4 mags and a case of ammo for it. Don't forget some good web gear - a good belt, holster and mag pouches.

After that's done, then IMHO you can start looking at another carbine or maybe what you really want is a good bolt gun in something like .308, 30-06, 270? That would give you reach that you don't currently have....

Or maybe go with a shotgun... you're choice depending on what you see as your possible future needs.

Just saying. If you look at this from a standpoint of building your firearms 'defense', it becomes pretty obvious how you should proceed.

Do you have others to arm? If so, then maybe getting the carbine does make sense and becomes the priority. But I'd get another 7.62x39 instead of another new caliber....

Stay "small". Small is big, logistically.

Don't duplicate anything until you get all of your bases covered.

[El Laton Caliente]

Widner's has factory trade-in/refurb Sig P226 for $475. I don't know of a better 9mm high cap pistol...

[imanaknut]

Beretta 92FS, if you like the pistol, to make the trigger better from the start, replace the factory hammer spring with one from the D model. That improves initial trigger feel and makes for a much better double action pull. Berettas also improve with age, with the trigger smoothing out very nicely.

As for mags, if you get a Beretta FS, stick with either factory (PB marked) mags, MDS mags who make the factory mag, or Mec-gar, also an OEM supplier. There are now flush fitting 18 rounders available, and Beretta USA always seems to have the MDS for reasonable prices. CDNN also stocks 92FS mags at very good prices.

92 series Berettas can be found everywhere, and if you are careful you can find them for really good prices.

On the other hand, the AK-74 is harder to come by, so if you do find one at a reasonable price, if it is one of the better ones, get it. Mags are going up in price, and it surprises me because it wasn't too long ago vendors were drowning in them, and they were selling for around $5 each.

[O.S.O.K.]

Classic Arms is showing Tantals for $399. They are out of stock on a bunch of the other's though... based on this and what I'm reading on other boards, there's a gun and ammo run underway again.

[Warthogg]

Get the 74, lots of mags, and a couple cases of the 5.45x39 surplus.!



Agree.



Then get the Beretta 92, with lots of high-cap mags,


I would NOT get the Beretta 92F. My personal opinion yes but also a little more. There are mag probs to begin with. I don't know how to tell you which mags are good. In the early days of the Afghan about every 1911 available was requested so the Beretta did not have to be carried.

Finally I don't know your handgun situation but if this is to be your primary defense weapon I would buy a .40 cal.....come to think of I did.;);)

I do recall the problematic mags were within SPEC. Leads one to believe Beretta had not released the full/complete spec.


Wart

Again, early in the Afghan war, the troops were having trouble with knockdowns over 100 yards with the M4 and with the Beretta at about any range.

(All from memory.....I was involved in getting some good mags and mag parts for a friend...Lt Col - Army special forces is why I recall this so well.)

[Warthogg]

Just to take another moment of your time since I have brought up 'specs'.

Leaving room for that rare exception, virtually everything you see posted as available to the commercial market and marked MilSpec is NOT MilSpec. Few manufacturers have the real MilSpec and for even those there is no MilSpec compliance being done. Plus.....a portion of the MilSpec is verbal.

Just don't buy into MilSpec for commercial usage.


Wart

[imanaknut]

About the mag issue in the sandbox. The mags ordered by our wonderful government were the cheapest money could buy. They were made with a rough coating on both the outside, but worse, the inside also. Because of this small grains of sand could cause the mag to jam.

Once the problem was ID'd, and the correct mags were used, the problem vanished. Buy cheap crap, get cheap crap, but unfortunately when the military is involved, it could get our loved ones killed.

It is very easy to ID the good mags, as I stated in my earlier post, the PB marked Beretta mags are good to go. MDS makes the mags for Beretta, and theirs have the "MDS" in the place where the "factory" mags have the "PB". The rest of the writing on the mag is identical. Mec-gar also make some OEM mags, and theirs also are well marked.

I have been playing with the Beretta 92 Series for many years now, and have never had a mag related problem as long as I followed my own device.

In fact, the Beretta 92 is much like the AR-15 in that you can take apart a dozen pistols, throw all the parts in one box, and put together a dozen perfectly functional pistols. That is one reason Beretta only has the serial number on the frame. They do not build the pistol using matching parts, but build it for ease of maintaining them.

If you haven't seen my Franken92, check my photo album. I built it using around 8 or 9 donor pistols, new parts from Beretta, Brownell, and CDNN, as well as a couple parts purchased on Gunbroker, and the pistol has been flawless. My future son-in-law, who trains with the M9 in the military can cut a hole in the center of a target at 25 yards with this pistol and complain it is boring!

Nuff said, it is up to you as you have to live with it.

[was_peacemaker]

My 2 cents is get the 74 now. Handguns are being made all the time. On Sig or Beretta, I'm going to Blutforce you by saying get a Glock.

I have been in a couple of pistol shooting events and I have out shot a bunch of 92 type Beretta and Taurs pistols. The Glock isn't as good as a match grade handgun but they are quite accurate if you learn how to control the weapon through the trigger pull. I put in a 3.5 LB. trigger connector after the last match I shot it in and that only made me shoot it better.

Glock has no safety to screw up or forget to take off. Once it's charged keep finger off trigger until you are ready to shoot. I've never seen a failure with any of my 19's or 21 with factory ammo of any bullet weight. Glock embodies the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid.

Sorry its taken me a while to reply to this thread.

Ok...I like Glock pistols...its just that I suck with them. I personally am no good with a Glock. You won't hear any Glock hate from me...I think they are fine pieces of machinery...I am just no good with them when compared to the other types of pistols I have shot.

[was_peacemaker]

OK, you have a SAR-1, mags and ammo but need more mags and ammo.

Do that before you get anything else.

Now, you have that taken care of. You have a good carbine set-up, but no pistol. So get the pistol next after that.

I like Sigs and Glocks and XD's and 1911's.

If you want the high cap then go that route - Sig is a great choice - get 4 mags and a case of ammo for it. Don't forget some good web gear - a good belt, holster and mag pouches.

After that's done, then IMHO you can start looking at another carbine or maybe what you really want is a good bolt gun in something like .308, 30-06, 270? That would give you reach that you don't currently have....

Or maybe go with a shotgun... you're choice depending on what you see as your possible future needs.

Just saying. If you look at this from a standpoint of building your firearms 'defense', it becomes pretty obvious how you should proceed.

Do you have others to arm? If so, then maybe getting the carbine does make sense and becomes the priority. But I'd get another 7.62x39 instead of another new caliber....

Stay "small". Small is big, logistically.

Don't duplicate anything until you get all of your bases covered.


As far as a long rang weapon goes. I have a HK-91 clone with five 20 rounders, and a 30 rounder. Its very accurate with open sights. Also I have a very accurate Mosin 91/30 and a Spanish 7mm Mauser that needs a new firing pin.

Shotguns...Winchester Model 1200 which will hold 1 in the chamber and 5 in the tube I believe...and a Maverick 88 Pistol grip 12 gauge that with hold the same amount.

I am with you on the stocking up mags and ammo for the SAR-1, and then getting a pistol. Although I want a 74 variant sooo bad! Me and a buddy came up with an idea which is kind of goofy but...he is going to sell his WASR-10 and get one of the Tantals. So he said he would get a AK-47 pistol and since I have the SAR-1 I could get one of the 74 type pistols. LOL

I guess that would be kind of fun.

[insider]

Agree.



I would NOT get the Beretta 92F. My personal opinion yes but also a little more. There are mag probs to begin with. I don't know how to tell you which mags are good. In the early days of the Afghan about every 1911 available was requested so the Beretta did not have to be carried.

Finally I don't know your handgun situation but if this is to be your primary defense weapon I would buy a .40 cal.....come to think of I did.;);)

I do recall the problematic mags were within SPEC. Leads one to believe Beretta had not released the full/complete spec.


Wart

Again, early in the Afghan war, the troops were having trouble with knockdowns over 100 yards with the M4 and with the Beretta at about any range.

(All from memory.....I was involved in getting some good mags and mag parts for a friend...Lt Col - Army special forces is why I recall this so well.)

The problem with the Beretta mags were the Checkmate mags used by the military in the M9, real Beretta mags are all I use, especially the aluminum bottom ones.
I have had several Taurus 92's, and several Beretta's, and they are the most accurate and reliable pistols I have ever owned. One more thing, always buy Beretta's that were made in Italy, or Tauruses made in Brazil, the USA models take shortcuts. The 9mm is not considered a knock-down round, plus our troops are not allowed to use hollow points; it is hard to stop an Afghan who is all doped up on opium.

[Schuetzenman]

Sorry its taken me a while to reply to this thread.

Ok...I like Glock pistols...its just that I suck with them. I personally am no good with a Glock. You won't hear any Glock hate from me...I think they are fine pieces of machinery...I am just no good with them when compared to the other types of pistols I have shot.

Then you haven't learned trigger technique yet. Possibly you really haven't learned how to hold a handgun yet. The Glock will point these out quickly because of it's long gummy trigger pull. If you can shoot a Glock well, you can shoot any handgun well. Not the other way around.

[FunkyPertwee]

I like a CZ-75b better than the 92 series.

Here's mine: http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h399/FunkyPertwee/th_100_2326.jpg (http://s1107.photobucket.com/albums/h399/FunkyPertwee/?action=view&current=100_2326.jpg)

[was_peacemaker]

Then you haven't learned trigger technique yet. Possibly you really haven't learned how to hold a handgun yet. The Glock will point these out quickly because of it's long gummy trigger pull. If you can shoot a Glock well, you can shoot any handgun well. Not the other way around.

I know how to hold a handgun...and I am pretty good with a 1911. Sig's, Walther's, CZ's, and Beretta's I do decent with. When I say I suck with a Glock, its not that I can't hit the broad side of a barn...its when compared to other pistols I don't group as tight. Yet, to be honest with you, if I found a Glock model 17 used at a good price...then I would give it some thought and just plan on getting in a lot of practice.

[ltorlo64]

I would not get the Barretta. I have had to qualify with the 92 a couple of time in the military and I don't like the recoil. I am left handed and it tries to wrench out of my hand when I shoot it. My Glock 19 and my 1911 (.45 ACP) both recoil straight back. The 92 is plenty accurate, but having it try to spin out of my hand is disconcerting.

[American Rage]

As far as a long rang weapon goes. I have a HK-91 clone with five 20 rounders, and a 30 rounder. Its very accurate with open sights. Also I have a very accurate Mosin 91/30 and a Spanish 7mm Mauser that needs a new firing pin.

Shotguns...Winchester Model 1200 which will hold 1 in the chamber and 5 in the tube I believe...and a Maverick 88 Pistol grip 12 gauge that with hold the same amount.

I am with you on the stocking up mags and ammo for the SAR-1, and then getting a pistol. Although I want a 74 variant sooo bad! Me and a buddy came up with an idea which is kind of goofy but...he is going to sell his WASR-10 and get one of the Tantals. So he said he would get a AK-47 pistol and since I have the SAR-1 I could get one of the 74 type pistols. LOL

I guess that would be kind of fun.

If you already have 2 bolt action rifles, 1 semi-auto magazine fed rifle, and 2 shotguns, I'd definately go for the Beretta 92 next.

[AK-J]

I know how to hold a handgun...and I am pretty good with a 1911. Sig's, Walther's, CZ's, and Beretta's I do decent with. When I say I suck with a Glock, its not that I can't hit the broad side of a barn...its when compared to other pistols I don't group as tight. Yet, to be honest with you, if I found a Glock model 17 used at a good price...then I would give it some thought and just plan on getting in a lot of practice.

Dude, everyone is "pretty good" with a 1911. It's a great gun, but it tends to be very forgiving for bad technique. On the other hand, the Glock will point out the flaws in your pistol handling abilities. Limp wrist it, have improper grip, or bad trigger control (or all of the above) and the Glock will show you your deficiencies. I've seen it over and over again with people complaining that the Glock is inaccurate. It's not the gun, it's the user's bad technique. It is as Schuetzenman says, "If you can shoot a Glock well, you can shoot any handgun well. Not the other way around."

[was_peacemaker]

Dude, everyone is "pretty good" with a 1911. It's a great gun, but it tends to be very forgiving for bad technique. On the other hand, the Glock will point out the flaws in your pistol handling abilities. Limp wrist it, have improper grip, or bad trigger control (or all of the above) and the Glock will show you your deficiencies. I've seen it over and over again with people complaining that the Glock is inaccurate. It's not the gun, it's the user's bad technique. It is as Schuetzenman says, "If you can shoot a Glock well, you can shoot any handgun well. Not the other way around."

Actually I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that not many folks are that great with a 1911. Seems most folks tend to shoot high and left with one.

[recon]

My 2 cents is get the 74 now. Handguns are being made all the time. On Sig or Beretta, I'm going to Blutforce you by saying get a Glock.

I have been in a couple of pistol shooting events and I have out shot a bunch of 92 type Beretta and Taurs pistols. The Glock isn't as good as a match grade handgun but they are quite accurate if you learn how to control the weapon through the trigger pull. I put in a 3.5 LB. trigger connector after the last match I shot it in and that only made me shoot it better.

Glock has no safety to screw up or forget to take off. Once it's charged keep finger off trigger until you are ready to shoot. I've never seen a failure with any of my 19's or 21 with factory ammo of any bullet weight. Glock embodies the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid.

Totally agree! Glock! But that's me. 5.45 ammo is on sale for $241 for 2000+ rnds? Where? I just can't let myself get a 5.45 rifle. Then I need mags,ammo,etc!

[insider]

I like a CZ-75b better than the 92 series.

Here's mine: http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h399/FunkyPertwee/th_100_2326.jpg (http://s1107.photobucket.com/albums/h399/FunkyPertwee/?action=view&current=100_2326.jpg)
The CZ-75 is my second choice, except its a PIA to disassemble.