Planning to get a M38 as my first gun, tips?

[RChen]

I just turned 18 on February 2nd, and I'm planning to get a M38 Mosin. Me and my friend William are nuts about WWII weapons, he slavers over the 8mm Yugoslavia bolt action. But because of the price and history of Mosins we decided that we should get them. Will plans on getting a 91/30 because he is a little more budget conscious and also for the fact that many Big 5s carry them. I settled for a M38 because its shortness is perfect for my short, but muscled stature and variety doesn't hurt either. Since I live in California gun laws are a bit restrictive, so will I have any problems buying a M38 online? We also plan on getting a bunch of surplus rounds online, what country manufactured the least evil surplus round? Any additional tips would be appreciated.

[mriddick]

Least evil surplus round? That would be czech training (aircore) 762x54r, sort of rare but the lightweight target bullet is only good for 100yds or so. It sort of makes your mosin into a 22...

As far as the M38 goes, IMO try and find one that has the best bore possible, is not counterbored, has stamped matching numbers and you might take into account the years which are rarer then others.

I have one M38 left in the collection but next to the 91/59 it's my least favorite mosin, they just kick too hard for me.

[Schuetzenman]

Every M38 I've ever seen and I've seen hundreds of them, all had counter bored muzzles. This is done to try and rescue the barrel that is worn out from cleaning rod wear. I haven't seen any whole sale houses with M38's for years now. M44's I think are way better, most of those did not have counter bored muzzles and they have the cool flip out bayonet

These short rifles do seem to kick more than the 91/30 weapons. I theorize it's do to the powder burn rate. The round is loaded for the longer barrels and you get an enormous fire ball and muzzle blast out of the 44 and 38 weapons. I think the burning gas acutally must push back on the muzzle of the weapon to generate all that extra recoil. The weight difference in the weapons doesn't seem big enough to account for all of the difference.

Less evil surplus round :roflmao:, that's one I haven't heard before! 7.62x54r is equivalent to .30-06 in power factor, this is not a whimpy round. You being in Commiefornia, I think less evil would be any non tracer round. Most 99.9% of the surplus ammo is not tracer ammo so my advise is to get Russian first if you can. Failing that Hungarian, if no Hungarian, Czech is the round to get. Never shot any Romanian, probably ok as their 8 mm surplus is pretty good.

[mriddick]

I've seen 2 non counter bored M38's over 30 years or so of looking, the best example of the 2 is still in my collection :)

[RChen]

Well less evil as in less damage to your barrel, not kick back. And that sucks how most are now counter bored. Main reason why I don't want a M44 is precisely the bayonet. One because I don't even know if its legal in California and two it changes your aim and I don't want to accidentally stab myself or my friend. Is Big 5 known to occasionally carry the M38 variant? Also I've read that all the sights are zeroed at 300 yards, which is problem because I will be shooting at closer targets. Are there any easy ways to correct this?

[Richard Simmons]

I've had my M38 for years and love it. I don't find the recoil as objectionable as I do the short (for me) stock. Picked up a slip on recoil pad years ago that does wonders with a lot of my milsurps. Mine is made out of the same stuff that they make wetsuits out of and works an pretty much all stock/buttplate shapes. It has several foam inserts of different thicknesses so you can adjust for length of pull. Found mine in a local shop long ago and it's not marked so can't tell you were to find another one but the description might give you some ideas.

As far as ammo goes I'd say the most important thing is to simply find out what your particular M38 likes best. Standard Russian LPS uses a 147gr projectile. You can also get the heavier "D" ammo in the 172-180gr range. Try and get a bundle or two of diffferent bullet weights and or countries of manufacture and see if your M38 likes the light or heavy bullet and they try different countries and see if you can find the best accuracy.

Used to be that Romanian silver-tip was regarded as pretty accurate stuff in a lot of different Mosins. Don't know if the currently available Russian silver-tip shares that characteristic or not?

Good luck to you and welcome to the forum!

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

Well less evil as in less damage to your barrel, not kick back. And that sucks how most are now counter bored. Main reason why I don't want a M44 is precisely the bayonet. One because I don't even know if its legal in California and two it changes your aim and I don't want to accidentally stab myself or my friend. Is Big 5 known to occasionally carry the M38 variant? Also I've read that all the sights are zeroed at 300 yards, which is problem because I will be shooting at closer targets. Are there any easy ways to correct this?
I haven't seen an M38 at BIG 5 in nearly six years.

As for accuacy? The one I had could still hit a man in the chest at 100 yards with monotonous regularity. It was almost cheeting at that distance.

To get one shipped to Cali I believe your FFL has to tack on $100 in fee's they incure any time their shop takes in a gun. You might want to check that out.

With the price point marked up that bad you may have a better deal in a Savage, or the new Ruger Scout.

http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/axissr

[Schuetzenman]

Like I said, there are no M38 rifles being sold in quantity. The supply ran out years ago. One only finds them on the auction house web sites or for sale on a table or walking around in somebody's hands at an ocassional gun show. There are some M44's coming in from time to time but by and large the 91/30 is still the easiest to find.

[RChen]

Thanks for the tips. I heard that I could use Windex as a cleaning solution after firing corrosive surplus rounds. Is this a good idea? I have no problem buying actual cleaning solutions, but if Windex does it well why not? Also any mind telling me if these surps are good? http://www.luckygunner.com/7-62x54r-147-gr-fmj-bulgarian-surplus-880-rounds

[NAPOTS]

No problem with bayonet even in California and it has nothing to do with your point of aim

[l921428x]

No problem with bayonet even in California and it has nothing to do with your point of aim

Or stabbing your friend unless you deploy it.

[RChen]

Really? I've read that the M44 is designed to fire with the bayonet deployed, and if it isn't it fires off slightly to the right.

[Schuetzenman]

Really? I've read that the M44 is designed to fire with the bayonet deployed, and if it isn't it fires off slightly to the right.

Of the two m44 rifles I've owned and shot they did shift point of impact vs. point of aim with the bayonet out vs. not out. You can set them up to hit where you aim either way. The bayonets pulled the groups to the right due to the spring pressure and the bayonet loop that goes over the muzzle. I was able to take a brass punch and hammer to drift the front sight over and compensate for it deployed or not deployed. I set them up for not deployed status as I hated having to clean the bayonet to prevent it from rusting. The powder residue does get all over the blade when you fire it.

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

Thanks for the tips. I heard that I could use Windex as a cleaning solution after firing corrosive surplus rounds. Is this a good idea? I have no problem buying actual cleaning solutions, but if Windex does it well why not? Also any mind telling me if these surps are good? http://www.luckygunner.com/7-62x54r-147-gr-fmj-bulgarian-surplus-880-rounds
Windex is more like one of those field expedient solutions than an actual good cleaning agent. The idea being that the Amonia in Windex neutralises corosive salts from the primers. Windex however, is pretty darn dilutted with water and will actually just make your gun rust worse if you don't dry it out thouroughly after using. (This I know from personal experience). Straight amonia may work better and it's stupid cheap if you need that quick fix.

I would reccomend a dedicated cleaner if you have that option.

In my experience, good old Hoppe's #9 solvent works great for keeping the bore of your milsurps nice and clean.

Remember, you CAN maintain a soviet gun with just the fluids from a bombed out Lada, (Gasoline solvent, and motor oil lubricant) but that doesn't mean you HAVE to.

[Schuetzenman]

Windex is useable as a bore cleaner. Then again so is hot soapy water. The key ingrediant in surplus poweder that causes rust is a Perchlorate, a type of salt that comes out of the primers. Salts dissolve in water. I've used windex, then followed up with a good bore cleaner and finally an oil to prevent rust. This worked.

Then again I've used Hoppes' copper remover formual, the black labeled one and I've used Birchwood Casey bore solvent. The BC has a ton of amonia in it, I made the mistake of stiffing it directly with my nose and it about damn near burned out my sinuses! These high amonia and oily solvent type cleaners also worked well.

That said, I always inspect the bore on a surplus weapon for up to 5 days after wards to make sure there is no after rusting going on. When it happens you look down the bore and see this dark black spec, looks like a lump of dirt, but that's not dirt, that's rust trying to form. Scrub it out again with bore solvent and then patch that out and recoat with oil. Watch bore again until you are satisfied it is not going to rust on you.

The better condition the bore is, the easier it is to clean the barrel out. Dark, frosted or pitted bores hold the fowling and salts and they are much more difficult to clean. I often found myself cleaning them every day for a week to get the crap out and finally see no rust.

Oh one last thing, if you can get ahold of some noncorrosive new made rounds, shoot 2 of those at the end of a range session and they will help to blow / scrape out a lot of the salts. I found clean up to be easier / after rust to be minimized after doing that.

[RChen]

Thanks for the tip on cleaning. Anyone here know if I will have any problems with buying milsurp ammo online in quantities of 440-880 in California? I hope I won't have any problems because I am 18 now.

[Schuetzenman]

Thanks for the tip on cleaning. Anyone here know if I will have any problems with buying milsurp ammo online in quantities of 440-880 in California? I hope I won't have any problems because I am 18 now.

Not in Kommiefornia. I can say I do not know of any restrictions on ordering ammo quantities. I say go for the full case quantity, the ammo sellers will let you know if they can't ship to you. Wholesale houses won't ship high capacity box magazines to Kommiefornia as an example.

[NAPOTS]

Not in Kommiefornia. I can say I do not know of any restrictions on ordering ammo quantities. I say go for the full case quantity, the ammo sellers will let you know if they can't ship to you. Wholesale houses won't ship high capacity box magazines to Kommiefornia as an example.

RChen, it depends on where you live. Some Shitties (oops Cities) in this state ban mail order sales of ammunition.

It was supposed to be state wide but that bill is held up in court.

There is no restriction on quantity.

[Richard Simmons]

You'll have to check the website of the distributor you are looking to buy from. For example, Aim Surplus will only sell ammo to individuals 21 or older. They will not ship ammo to San Francisco County or the cities of Los Angeles, San Francisco or Oakland. Other distributors will have similar rules and or requirements.

[Dieselbuilder]

I've seen 2 non counter bored M38's over 30 years or so of looking, the best example of the 2 is still in my collection :)
My first C&R purchase was a sweet M38 purchased from Aztec Arms for $49.95 + $10 S&H. It was non-counterbored and in the correct stock.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Dieselbuilder/MyM38-1.jpg

[RChen]

Hmmm, I live in city of Yorba Linda which might be considered a suburb of LA would a ban on ammunition sales in LA affect me? And damn $50 bucks for a non counterbored M38? You hit the jack pot there.

Correction I now know that Yorba Linda is not considered any part of LA.

[RChen]

If I don't find one online, would anyone mind selling me an unwanted M38? That is if you don't mind selling it to a 18 year old who lives in California.

[Schuetzenman]

My first C&R purchase was a sweet M38 purchased from Aztec Arms for $49.95 + $10 S&H. It was non-counterbored and in the correct stock.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Dieselbuilder/MyM38-1.jpg

Nice one!

[Schuetzenman]

If I don't find one online, would anyone mind selling me an unwanted M38? That is if you don't mind selling it to a 18 year old who lives in California.

To do that they would either have to send it to a dealer in your area and you fill out the 4473 form or you need to have your C&R license.

[RChen]

Yeah I know I need to get a license and stuff like that, but it won't be for few months if ever do it. I need to wait till school is over before I have time to do stuff. I have a Big 5 nearby that does sell guns, would they count as a FFL dealer if I need a gun shipped?

[Richard Simmons]

Yeah I know I need to get a license and stuff like that, but it won't be for few months if ever do it. I need to wait till school is over before I have time to do stuff. I have a Big 5 nearby that does sell guns, would they count as a FFL dealer if I need a gun shipped?

You'd have to ask if they will do transfers which is the correct term for when a private individual transfers a weapon to another private individual through an FFL. You can also look up a transfer FFL from sale and auction sites like this one:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/ffl.php

[RChen]

Wow very handy thanks Richards I found one within 8 miles of me.

[Richard Simmons]

Wow very handy thanks Richards I found one within 8 miles of me.
Glad I could help. Good luck with your hunt for an M38.