New to forums

[greatking]

Whats up everyone. New to the forums here. I've been recently getting the AK47 ich and have been wanting one for over several months now. I currently own a Glock 23, FN FAL Izzy heavy barrel and looking to get something in the middle and I figured an AK would fit nicely. I'm kind of torn between the M-M AK47 and Saiga. I've lurked the forums here and have read a few threads on the differences. Anyone currently own or have owned both types? I'm hesitant towards the M-M AK only because it uses the Romanian receiver but overall feels good. I have seen mixed reviews on Romanian receivers but not many reviews on the M-M ones. With the Saiga, I have only heard good things.

What are some plus and minuses on both types?

Thanks guys and looking forward to adding another to my collection.

[imanaknut]

Welcome to the group !!! :welcome:

Can't help you with the two variants you ask about, but hang around as we have many here that can help.

Me personally I am stuck in the past, as in pre-George Bush the First AK variants.

Along what you are asking though, I would be leaning to a Saiga as they are Russian made and can be either purchased looking like the real deal Kalashnikov, or if you are good with hand tools, they make a nice do-it yourself project.

And be careful, AKs are highly addictive!!! You buy one and enjoy it so much you have to get another version, like a side or underfolder. Then another in a different caliber, then one from a different country, and another, and then another...The AK-Addiction!

[greatking]

Thanks for the welcome imanaknut,

I really like the AK and just the reliability it has and of course the history of the weapon. I am leaning more towards the Saiga as it is Russian made and tends to more reliable. I considered getting rid of my Izzy and picking up both a Saiga and M-M.

We will see what happens. I am still trying to dig up as much info as I can and figure out which route I want to go. BTW as I was looking around at AK's I noticed majority of them even saiga and the m-m that the front sites seem to all be canted to the left. Is this a normal thing? Im not too bothered by it as I plan on adding different sites but just seems odd to me that when manufactured that they would be that way.

[Full Otto]

Welcome you gotta get at least one. Good luck with that.

Gotta be honest I can't find anything on the "M-M"
Care to share?

Closest I could figure is the mm thickness of the receiver.
Is it a manufacturer?

[imanaknut]

Sad thing about many AKs, and it seems especially from Romania is the front sight being off center or canted. While it is a "looks thing", it does make you wonder what else on the rifle they didn't care to get just right. With what we are paying for AK variants these days, there is no excuse for having crooked parts.

It really isn't to hard to get the front sight straight, but on some I have seen the sight post centered, and the rifle shoots to point of aim. I have had people bring me rifles to align the front sight, only to find that the sight pin has to be pushed to the side because the rifle does not fire straight.

Unless it really doesn't bother you that the front sight is canted, I would keep sorting through the rifles until I found one that was put together with the parts on nice and straight. It is sad because it would only take a few seconds to make sure everything was lined up right before shipping a rifle.

[greatking]

That is exactly how I feel. Something so simple as to get a front sight on straight but wasn't leaves me to wonder what else could be wrong. I understand tolerances and things as I am an Aerospace technician, building CH-53k helicopters and the JSF (F-35) out of carbon fiber and have 3 years of engineering experience that the AK has a little bit of slop (I guess you could say) allowing it to have dirt, mud, grime in it to still allow it to fire, but still makes me very weary about some of the ones out there that I have felt.

What really grinds my gears sometimes is when things are designed and made to be perfect as intended and just doesn't have to results or outcome as originally designed because either someone didn't do enough research or just didn't care to get things right.

With that being said, that is why I am searching and gathering as much info as I can on these two different types and then deciding which one to purchase. Maybe later in the future I will make my own as I have read quite a bit about the DIY's.

I have a pretty good eye and can be meticulous on things and I noticed on all the AK's I have seen at the local gun shop here that all the sites where slightly canted to the left. Makes me wonder if I do purchase the rifle and fix the sight will that offset the barrel enough to not shoot straight??

I was really surprised to see that the Saiga had a sight problem as I have heard they are not manufactured at a higher/faster rate than the Romanian ones and tend to have a better quality overall. Another thing that kind of bothers me with the M-M made AK is that if two areas didn't notice a sight being canted or off center what else are they not looking over. Or are they just not worried about it because the rifle does shoot straight?

[FunkyPertwee]

I'm not sure that they don't notice the crooked front sight, I just think they don't care. They probably tell their employees not to take over so many minutes to install each part, knowing that certain imperfections just don't matter on such reliable product that will be mostly used in an institutional setting anyway.

[imanaknut]

It's not as much shooting straight as it is shooting to point of aim. My guess is that the center the front sight pin and test fire the rifle, then set the front sight so that with the pin centered, the rifle shoots to point of aim.

greatking, we have a little in common, I once worked for Pratt & Whitney in their engine repair shop. I am also a licensed aircraft mechanic and pilot. Love the birds!

Something about having to turn my brain off to work on an AK variant. With my brain set to the tolerances and requirements of signing off an aircraft as airworthy, it is really weird to pick up an AK and see it work so well with a loose gas piston, loose bolt in the carrier, loose upper handguard/gas tube, loose muzzle device, and more.

[greatking]

Nice imanaknut. I work for Exelis here in Utah. Enjoy the job very much. I couldn't imagine myself sitting behind a computer view blue prints and such. I'd much rather working with my hands.

After researching more and more about the M&M and it looks like a modified WASR 10. I cant seem to find too much info on the rifle. Any good links for reviews for it?

[imanaknut]

Honestly I can answer about any question on a Chinese Kalashnikov, Egyptian, the older Romanians as well as others, but this latest batch like the M&M are completely unknown to me. I hope someone else can help you with that one.

[greatking]

Yeah, Im hoping someone will chime in. The M&M as I believe are pretty knew 2011? but I know Saiga has been around for a while now. Im starting to lean towards that more. They are about the same price range from what I've seen so far.

[Full Otto]

Ah M&M now I found a little. I guess I'm late to the table on these first I've heard of them. M&M LLC is the importer I'm catching on.

Here's a little I found from some other discussion boards:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ak-47-talk/203823-anyone-heard-m-m-brand.html
that one had this link:
http://www.centermassfirearms.com/rifles/semi-automatic-rifles/m-m-llc-romanian-m10-ak47-7-62-x-39mm.html
Imported by M+M Inc. directly from Romania, our M10 AK-type rifles are entirely manufactured of all NEW parts.

This one has some comments from guys that own them some canted sights some not
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/140082_MandM_M10_AK__picked_one_up_today_.html

Here's a youtube video of it but I didn't actually watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEW6PCpzbfo
Made in Romania by F.A. Cuglr, imported by M&M LLC.
7.62X39 uses AK magazines, TAPCO muzzle brake, stock and trigger group.

Video has a in house review, shooting and blooper real.

Tapco RAZR muzzle brake with integral flash hider
polymer Tapco buttstock
ergonomic Hogue Industries pistol grip
Tapco single hook G2 trigger group (3 parts)
Tapco AK retaining plate for ease of install and take down
Overall Length: 36"
Barrel: NEW Chrome-lined, 16.25" long, 1:10 twist rate with four lands and grooves, right hand twist
Weight, Unloaded w/out Bayonet: 6 lbs
Action Type: Semi-automatic
Caliber: 7.62x39mm
Magazine: 30 round, double stack
Rear Sight Type: RPK type sight graduated to 1000 meters
in 100 meter increments

[greatking]

yeah. Thanks for the links Full Otto. I think I might just order the Saiga. The local gun shop has the Century converted ones for $609. http://www.impactguns.com/century-international-saiga-rifle-762x39mm-semi-auto-30-round-magazine-ri1276-m-787450051416.aspx

Are there any other places selling them cheaper? I know atlantic firearms sells them for $589.99 but I figure after transfer fee, shipping, etc. Itll be around the same price.

[imanaknut]

You would be surprised to read about people bragging that they saved twenty dollars by buying on the internet, never realizing that the transfer and shipping fees usually negate the savings even when figuring sales tax. Also buying from a local store keeps someone in business and helps your local economy. While I like Atlantic as a business, being able to actually handle a firearm give you a chance to inspect it to make sure it was put together to your standards.

[greatking]

exactly. Id rather help local shops especially since it is close in price. If there was a difference of $200 or so, then I would order online and have it sent over to me. I like the fact that I can see the gun personally first and pick through their inventory and to pick one to my liking. So looks like I will be making my first AK purchase here shortly if everything works out and they have a rifle that I am satisfied with overall.

Thanks guys for all the input and help. Ill be sure to post new pictures up on it. Especially after shooting the fully auto AK over the weekend. I've still itching for one and wont get rid of it until I have one in my collection.