Nut...as in imanak

[blade]

Did I understand you to say in another thread ( fezs ) that if I'm not the
original owner of a Kalashnikov rifle...........that I do not have to worry about parts count?????

:cross3:

:proudusa:

[videodon]

I'm sure he will chime in but you are indeed responsible
for the silly parts count "rule" regardless.
:)

[blade]

Thanks D.....that's what I thought too.
:cross3:

[imanaknut]

Read the rule, don't take my word for it. 922(r) or Title 27 CFR 478.39 under codified regulations, but to be nice:


(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

Please tell me where it says you can't own one? It only says "no person shall assemble". I personally believe in going one step beyond instead of taking a nobody's word (me) for it and contacted ATF and they were very adamant about "no person shall build" and not a word about buying an already converted long gun from someone else.

[videodon]

Read the rule, don't take my word for it. 922(r) or Title 27 CFR 478.39 under codified regulations, but to be nice:


[/FONT][/COLOR]
Please tell me where it says you can't own one? It only says "no person shall assemble". I personally believe in going one step beyond instead of taking a nobody's word (me) for it and contacted ATF and they were very adamant about "no person shall build" and not a word about buying an already converted long gun from someone else.


...well then, what's all the hubub about...bub?
:)

[deth502]

it is banned from import, therefore the rifle is contraband. the law states it is illegal to "assemble" it. so you will likely not get arrested unless they can prove that you assembled it in that configuration, but rest assured, you WILL lose your rifle. it WILL get confiscated and destroyed as contraband.

now, as far as getting arrested for it, remember, the magazine counts as 3 imported parts, so i wouldnt put it past the atf to arrest you for "assembling" a banned rifle by putting a magazine into the mag well.

[Full Otto]

Kind of my sentiments
Has anyone heard of anybody getting into any trouble for not having the right count on parts?
I can see if someone is going into production having to cover their ass on this stupid rule and I understand making sure and all that but I hate seeing guys so concerned about going to prison as if it's a full auto conversion (which also pisses me off).
Maybe we do it to ourselves but I really don't think they give two shit's if someone has one they take to a range once and a while.
Oh well just spouting off

[fez]

My concern is if you use it for a legal reason like home defense and after an incident they start looking over the firearm? Or they happen to stop you for a minor traffic stop and find it your trunk.Something that is unconnected and maybe some cop wants to get a feather in his cap.

[fez]

Imanut,did you specifically ask them about buying one from someone else?

[deth502]

its no different than ivory or certain exotic hardwoods. look at what happened to the gibson guitar plant recently. completely 100% regardless of this law, the importation of them is banned, so, IT IS CONTRABAND. you will lose your rifle, same as gibson lost all of their wood supply as contraband as they couldnt produce documents that it was taken legally at the time it was found. theres no us law that says you cant go to africa, poach an elephant, and bring the ivory back, but it is banned from importation unless you have documentation that it was procured legally. it will be taken for you. just because you are allowed to "create" a contrabaned product here, hence the whole 922s shit, makes absolutely no difference in owning somehitng that is not legal to be here.

[fez]

So if I have the bill of a sale from the pawn shop it's no good? Man, the paranoia of law abiding citizens about their own govrnment is appaling.And they get away with fast and furious.

[imanaknut]

I wonder what the judge would say, assuming you believed enough in your rights that "when" ATF takes your 11 imported parts rifle away, what that judge would say when he sees the charge of having one too many imported parts in a rifle. Not that the rifle was used in a crime, but just that there are more than 10 imported parts. Especially when it is shown that the difference between the US part and the imported part is zero, they are identical.

I think you would be charged with involuntary manslaughter when the judge dies because he laughed himself to death.

It is purely up to you as to whether you are so paranoid that you have to make sure that even though you did not "make" the long gun in the configuration that you bought it, you have to change the parts to meet the imported parts count rule. Please do it to satisfy yourself that regardless as to what the law says, you take it further. Just like when you are driving and the speed limit is 60. You drive at 50 just to make sure you are within the law even though it says "60".

I in no way advocate the intentional violation of any law, unless that is your point, to get an unconstitutional law changed and have an attorney on retainer to restore your rights. On the other hand, as I read the law, you cannot assemble a semi-auto long gun using more than 10 imported parts. Please show me where it says that you cannot own one that you did not assemble.

Yes, fez you are correct. The paranoia of the average law abiding citizen is such that he/she is sure that as soon as he touches a "non sporting" firearm with 11 imported parts, the sky will fill with the sound of helicopters, and your lawn will be torn apart by dozens of black Blazers, your windows will explode with flash bang grenades and smoke bombs entering your home followed by hundreds of huge government commandos entering your home, shooting your dogs, and taking you to prison, just because your semi-auto shotgun has 11 imported parts.

[videodon]

Well said 'Nut.
:)

[fez]

Very well said.I don't want to violate any laws I just don't know who did what.There is a pistol grip someone installed so does that require more 922 parts? Maybe he did a complete legal redo.Are all 922 parts marked USA? Who put the underfolder on? Did it come with it? I read where some units had an underfolder WITH a thumbhole.One reads about innocent citizens being dragged thru the courts only to be exonerated in the end but still had to go thru it.I'm sure the citizen never thought he would be the one they would try and make an example out of.There are reasons to be paranoid today.I was only vaguely familiar with these assault weapons.It was cheap enough as I coud not afford them.Right now I am not in a position to buy upgrade kits either.It was only after the fact that I started looking into all the rules and regulations and became confused.I'm just trying to do the right thing.I do appreciate all the info from you fellas.

[fez]

Remeber what happened to that poor bastard at Ruby Ridge.

[imanaknut]

Remeber what happened to that poor bastard at Ruby Ridge.

What happened to Randy Weaver and his family had nothing to do with the parts count stupidity. It had to do with the only firearm act that was written to skirt the second amendment as congress back then knew that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but that it said nothing about shall not be taxed. And even then what caused the government to kill Randy's family was suspect to begin with.

Today ATF uses import restrictions to skirt our rights. They are not banning the firearm, they are banning the importation of that firearm. That is unless it meets the sporting purpose clause of the new ATF second amendment, or is modified with the correct number of parts to meet the sporting purpose clause of the new second amendment.

[fez]

I'm just using that as an example of how a small incident can get out of hand with these government agencies.Don't think it can't happen you.

[deth502]

Today ATF uses import restrictions to skirt our rights. They are not banning the firearm, they are banning the importation of that firearm. That is unless it meets the sporting purpose clause of the new ATF second amendment, or is modified with the correct number of parts to meet the sporting purpose clause of the new second amendment.

it has nothing to do with "sporting clause". it cannot have an excess amount of foreign parts or it is still considered imported. aks are not banned, you can own 10 fucking million aks if you like. the importation of aks is illegal. this isint that difficult, people.

[imanaknut]

it has nothing to do with "sporting clause". it cannot have an excess amount of foreign parts or it is still considered imported. aks are not banned, you can own 10 fucking million aks if you like. the importation of aks is illegal. this isint that difficult, people.
I was only talking about imported AKs and the like. You are right, you can own more than you can afford as long as they are either US made, but imported is allowed only if they meet the sporting purpose clause, IE single stack magwell, Bush-hole stock. All WASR rifles are imported with single stack magwells. That allows them to meet the sporting purpose clause. Like it or not, a semi-auto long gun has to meet a sporting purpose per ATF for it to be imported. That is why I would like to see the reaction of a judge to a charge of 11 imported parts on a semi-auto.

You can then change the configuration of an imported AK to standard mags, but to meet that sporting purpose, you must not use more than 10 imported parts when making the configuration change. That way it stays "sporting" even thought the configuration itself is prohibited, by parts count it is now a sporting weapon, so it is legal. Really stupid when you sit back and think about it.

Sorry deth502, the parts count of an imported semi-auto long gun has everything to do with the sporting purpose per ATF.

[Helen Keller]

If you're gonna get bonked for a parts count , you're already fucked and going to be doing major time for something else.


Just an "icing on the cake" law.

[deth502]

I was only talking about imported AKs and the like. You are right, you can own more than you can afford as long as they are either US made, but imported is allowed only if they meet the sporting purpose clause, IE single stack magwell, Bush-hole stock. All WASR rifles are imported with single stack magwells. That allows them to meet the sporting purpose clause. Like it or not, a semi-auto long gun has to meet a sporting purpose per ATF for it to be imported. That is why I would like to see the reaction of a judge to a charge of 11 imported parts on a semi-auto.

You can then change the configuration of an imported AK to standard mags, but to meet that sporting purpose, you must not use more than 10 imported parts when making the configuration change. That way it stays "sporting" even thought the configuration itself is prohibited, by parts count it is now a sporting weapon, so it is legal. Really stupid when you sit back and think about it.

Sorry deth502, the parts count of an imported semi-auto long gun has everything to do with the sporting purpose per ATF.

what im getting at is that the "parts count" bullshit is not because the rifle has to fit into a "sporting clause" there is no "sporing clause" ownership ban. you can own an ak and it does not have to meet the "sporting clause"

its all semantics really, yes, ill agree 100% with what youve said about breaking 922 r laws all day long. the point im trying to make, is that that is all completely irrelevant, because the ownership of a contraband rifle and the laws thereof have absolutely nothing to do with the 922r laws. its apples and oranges. im not even arguing that POSSESSION of said rifle is against the law. all im saying is that the RIFLE ITSELF is illegal. the op stated "is there anything to worry about" and again, im not going to argue the fact that he may or may not have to worry about being arrested, but again, the rifle itself, is illegal, and if found, will be destroyed as such. imo, having the govt take my property and destroy it would definitely fall under the category of "something to worry about"

the way im seeing this conversation is like someone asking, "if i kill a girl, and have sex with her, its not rape, cuz she never told me to stop" yes, that may be true and you can argue that heres nothing wrong with that all day long, but the fact of the matter is, killing her in the first place was illegal.

[abpt1]

Don't fuck around with the ATF.





That's all I got to say about that .

[fez]

It took me a little while to reply because I had to stop my head from spinning.Lets go back to 1992.This rifle was allowed in the UsA because the bayo mt was ground off,it had a thumbhole,no threaded barrell,no pistol grip etc.Now it is contraband because someone changed the stock and added a pistol grip but MAY not have added enough of the required 922 stuff.Is this correct? I'm going to bed now and will check any replies tomorrow.I'm bushed.

[Full Otto]

I'm bushed.

We all were

[imanaknut]

It took me a little while to reply because I had to stop my head from spinning.Lets go back to 1992.This rifle was allowed in the UsA because the bayo mt was ground off,it had a thumbhole,no threaded barrell,no pistol grip etc.Now it is contraband because someone changed the stock and added a pistol grip but MAY not have added enough of the required 922 stuff.Is this correct? I'm going to bed now and will check any replies tomorrow.I'm bushed.

According to the codified regulations, it is only bad if you were the one to make the conversion.

Now how is this for oops, ATF goofed? From 1999 thru late 2003 ATF allowed the SAR series to enter the country. Funny thing was they came in as 100% imported AKM rifles with full size mag openings. The Romanians didn't use threaded barrels on their semi-auto AKMs, and just ground off the bayo lug for shipping. Once in the USA, Century (the importer) removed the evil imported pistol grip, fire control group and gas piston, and replaced them with US parts thereby meeting the letter of the nebulous "sporting purpose", but it was met after importation of a rifle that as imported did not meet the ATF definition of a sporting rifle. I would have paid to see the face of the ATF guy who realized that they were allowing the importation of a semi-automatic rifle that did not meet 922(r)! Lucky for those of us who try to live a legal constitutional life, ATF just banned further importation of the SAR series and didn't go after those already here, because Century did meet the sporting purpose clause of the new ATF second amendment by selling them with 10 imported parts, making them angelic and "sporting".

Head spinning? You would be surprised how many people, ATF included had no idea what the definition of "sporting purpose" was, and it was only very recently that ATF tried to actually define it.

Again, read the codified regulation. I does rate up there with the stupidest rules ever written in the face of an existing law which supposedly over rules it.

[imanaknut]

We all were

Ain't that the truth. And damned if I didn't happen to see Bush1 and the speech he gave was his rant about "evil looking weapons"!!!

[vit]

Every time you insert a nonUS magazine you "assemble" a non-comliant rifle... no mag - fine, mag in - not so good.

[TB215]

Let me get this straight!

If I one night decide to see what my converted MAK 90 (USA stockset and Tapco mag) looked like with a real Chinese mag I could go to jail?

If my slant muzzle brake doesn't say Tapco USA, I could go to jail?

[imanaknut]

Every time you insert a nonUS magazine you "assemble" a non-comliant rifle... no mag - fine, mag in - not so good.

And we have a winner! Yep, unless you use a US mag, or one with enough US parts, you are a criminal every time you insert a three imported parts mag.

I would bet that with all the laws we have in the different municipalities, from towns, counties, states and the feds, every one of us is in constant violation of some statute somewhere. I am sure our founding fathers would not be happy with the current state of the Union.

[fez]

The 64000 question.How do you identify a US mag? Mine is a 30 round.

[fez]

You know it just hit me.This is insanity.Government at it's worst(if it even has a best).If someone with even less understanding then me found this site for the first time they would think it's a joke.Like the Abbott and Costello who's on first routine.Even if the chances are remote there is still that one iota that it could happen to an otherwise unsuspecting law abiding citizen and that's not funny.

[Hobe Sound AK]

Which is why I only have Preban AK's!