New to the forums in need of some help

[Revenge2269]

Hey all, new to the forums here. I suppose I should also note that I am new to firearms in general and this will be my first purchase. I'm taking my wife up to a buddy's lodge in the mountains during the week of December 21st (In case SHTF :P) and although he has several ARs and an AK47 (origin unknown to me), I would like to try and get a rifle of my own before then. I've been talking with a friend who happens to be an AR nut and at first he recommended that platform, but after chatting for half an hour and discussing financial restraints as well as realistic goals he told me an AK47 might be better afterall. Now I only have two friends that I would seriously take firearm advice from, one being the AR nut who says romanian, yugo and rusian AKs are the only way to go and a friend from work who said the one thing the chinese make high quality is firearms, and he says norinco is the way to go for an AK. Any how, I had no issue finding a plethora of armory websites with AR15 variants but I cannot for the life of me find something for AK47s. I did find one site that had russian, romanian and yugo rifles for sale but they were ugly/too expensive/variants that I don't want. I have several FFL dealers nearby but no idea how to find a listing for norinco AKs, preferrably mak90. If any of you know how I can get something like this or help me on my way to get an AK in the next 8 days, it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post, I'm tired as hell and I wanted to try and explain as much as I could in hopes that I'll have some solid info tonight. Thanks all! - Dave from Washington

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

There are many serviceable AK varrients out there. Remember that these machines come from societies that valued utility and economy over apearance, so most of them are not as streamlined and pretty as the machines from the west.

Whichever varrient you find that fits your budget between now and next week would be your pony to bet on. Anything decent for under $500 is a good deal on these rifles. (round here anyways) They are wonderfull, handy little carbines. Like a highcap semi auto 30-30 and about as tough and reliable a small arm as has ever been fieded. What's not to love?

It's hard to go wrong no matter which type you buy with but a couple of exceptions:

Century - Not necesarilly bad, but do not buy sight unseen. They have a reputation for "canted" sights and gas blocks. It's a QC issue at their plant (they kind of rush their work through...) and you'll want to inspect the gun to make sure everything is lined up nice.

Vulcan / Hesse - This guy is a notorious rip-off. Just avoid these builds like the plague. They are famous pieces of shit, don;t waste your money. (I'd take a canted POS single stack Romak from Century for 1k before I'd waste even a dime on a Hesse build...)

[Revenge2269]

Thanks for the quick reply. Century makes the wasr10 right? That seems to be my most likely option but I had heard about the qc issues and wanted to stay away.

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

Thanks for the quick reply. Century makes the wasr10 right? That seems to be my most likely option but I had heard about the qc issues and wanted to stay away.
They go bang. Kind of overpriced in todays market though. You can get something much nicer in the same ballpark cost wise.

That said, you probably won't be able to get your choice of Ak shipped before next week. Which means your down to whatever is available now at your local fun-store.

If you decide you'd rather take you time and pick the ideal piece, you can find great AK deals at this site:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=152&Itemid=706

Looks like a man with between 6-8 hundred could get themselves a very nice rifle there.

[imanaknut]

Welcome to the group !!! :welcome:

Clarification:

1) Century does not make WASR-10s, they import them and convert them from ATF approved sporting weapons with single stack mags to ATF approved sporting weapons that use standard AK mags.
2) You are not going to be able to order a Norinco through any dealer as they have been banned from importation since 1994 thanks to a couple of presidents who didn't believe in the constitution.
3) In my not so humble opinion, the only ugly AK variant is one someone tries to transform into an AR-15 wannabee, ie with front rails, collapsing stock and other non-AK items. :D

Atlantic Firearms has a good selection of current generation ATF approved AK variants. Would that have been the site you checked and found them too ugly or expensive? No flame intended, please do not take me wrong, but these days an AK that I used to pay under $300 is now selling for well over $500 if not $600 which is sad because these are ATF approved rifles which if we had a law that allowed us the right to keep and bear arms that wasn't infringed, a true Avtomat Kalashnokova would cost a chicken and a loaf of bread. :D

Check Gunbroker to get an idea as to the prices of the different AK/AKM variants. These days the "Yugos" are among the better to get because they were better built on sturdier receivers. WASR-10s are hit and miss mainly because they were thrown together by the Romanians using unused parts from older rifle batches on specially made receivers to be able to be shipped to the land of shall not be infringed. If you can find an older SAR-1 which was imported as a true semi-auto AKM before ATF realized it and banned them, they are very good rifles and represent true Romanian military issue weapons. (Yes, Romanian military practice and train with semi-auto only)

Norincos and their more expensive sibling the Poly Technology AKs were among the best examples imported into the USA. The Chinese were trying to get into the very lucrative US firearm market and tried many variations before they were banned. Unfortunately back then AKs were looked at as "damn commie rifles" and had a hard time selling. It was unfortunate because the Chinese variants had arguably the best trigger feel of any AK/AKM imported. You might be able to find a MAK-90 for around $500 these days, but expect closer to $700 as more people are getting into the sport, the number in the USA is fixed by decree (ban) and constant fears of further infringements are driving the prices up. If you think those are expensive, look at the price of the pre-Bush1-ban Norincos, and if you think those are expensive, look at the price of the Poly Techs!!!

Egyptian Maadis were nice, although far from pretty as they were poorly painted and scratched easily, but that was just a looks thing. Their ARMs were very good as well as the later RML which were virtually identical with the exception of having non-threaded barrels. MISR S/As were ok, but stay clear of MISR-10 and MISR-90s as they worse than hit or miss.

There are a lot of options out there. Finding one at a good price these days is difficult when you have been around them as long as some of us have been, but the good-old days are gone, so we have to deal with what we have.

Also, like the Dr. said, steer clear of Hesse or Vulcan made rifles, as well as pseudo-Chinese rifles made in the USA by B-west. They were really bad examples of great rifles.

[Revenge2269]

At work right now so I have to keep this short and I'll reply later, but the ugly variants were vepr models and others that had (presumably) the same internals but vastly different look and feel.

[El Laton Caliente]

http://www.classicfirearms.com/
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/
http://centerfiresystems.com/
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php
http://www.copesdistributing.net/index.php
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

A few favorites... you can also try gunbroker.com

BTW, VEPRs are one of the best built AKs out there right now... True Russian RPKs....

[silentkilla]

try this site to bud, www.armslist.com around your area. they might just have a good a.k on there. i've run across some really good! i mean really good deals on there. now if i can just get a camera i will post some pics of the a.k varients i've bought. o yeah welcome to the group!

[TB215]

If it's not Chinese then it's not a real AK-47.

[silentkilla]

If it's not Chinese then it's not a real AK-47.

i'm with you on this one, chinese all the way!!! would like to add a russian varient to the collection though. lol

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

If it's not Chinese then it's not a real AK-47.
If you want to get technical; If it's not Russian, built on a milled receiver with a fixed butstock and older than 1959 then "it's not a real AK47". ;)

[imanaknut]

If it's not Chinese then it's not a real AK-47.

Actually this is very true as the Chinese were the only ones to actually stamp "AK-47" on their rifles. The Soviets called it an Avtomat Kalashnikova (AK) after it was accepted into production in 1949 and it was our news media that gave it the "47" designation. It has been so hammered into our heads that when the Chinese attempted to sell their rifles here, they stamped them with the "-47" figuring that would help them sell. When that didn't work, they started using their own designation of "56". Our news media was so good at mislabeling it that even Mr. K himself has been quoted as using that name, knowing full well that in 1947 his rifle was rejected and it was two years later before it was accepted and production started.

Little AK trivia, a name that will not go away, like the lie told enough times it becomes truth.

[imanaknut]

Almost forgot, the VEPR is imported as a sporting rifle per the sporting purpose clause of the new ATF second amendment, based on the unconstitutional 1968 GCA. There are many conversion kits available to turn it into something that looks "as evil" as an RPK that it is based on, or an AKM.

At least ATF allows us to import them, along with the Saigas as virtually everything Kalashnikov like is banned by treaty (or agreement or what ever you want to call it) :dizzy:

[NAPOTS]

What about the Arsenal Milled AK's? They are a little spendy but if I had to do it over again I'd look real hard at one of those.

[Revenge2269]

Is milled or stamped preferred and why?

Also, which ones have hammer forge chrome lined barrels?

[Revenge2269]

http://www.armslist.com/posts/710248/seattle-washington-rifles-for-sale-trade--1994-thumbhole-mak-90--straight-cut-receiver-

What do you guys think of that? There are a butt load of WASRs on here for the same price or more. Isn't the straight cut receiver more desirable? MAK 90s have the hammer forged chrome lined barrels too, correct?

[El Laton Caliente]

http://www.armslist.com/posts/710248/seattle-washington-rifles-for-sale-trade--1994-thumbhole-mak-90--straight-cut-receiver-

What do you guys think of that? There are a butt load of WASRs on here for the same price or more. Isn't the straight cut receiver more desirable? MAK 90s have the hammer forged chrome lined barrels too, correct?

I'd like to see it cheaper but at today's increasing prices that may be cheap in a couple of years... The straight cut is/was easier to get replacement stock sets for. Ironwood Designs can supply both...

Milled is more expensive to build, heavier, more rigid (that can lead to better accuracy)... The stamped receivers are cheaper to build, lighter weight and can be just as good a rifle... Your choice...

Chrome lined barrels are on all original foreign built AKs except Yugoslavians. Until the ATBFE restricted import of the barrels, all the kit guns had original barrels. Now that import is restricted, USA kit built rifles mostly are not chrome lined usually Green Mountain brand barrels.

Chrome lining is not that big a deal. Chrome can hurt accuracy, but is more resistant to corrosive ammo and abuse. Just clean properly after use and you are good... Chrome can make a barrel last longer in sustained full auto fire, but with a semi, who cares...

[volunteer]

They go bang. Kind of overpriced in todays market though. You can get something much nicer in the same ballpark cost wise.

That said, you probably won't be able to get your choice of Ak shipped before next week. Which means your down to whatever is available now at your local fun-store.

If you decide you'd rather take you time and pick the ideal piece, you can find great AK deals at this site:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=152&Itemid=706

Looks like a man with between 6-8 hundred could get themselves a very nice rifle there.

+1 for Atlantic firearms. I bought a russian red saiga from them this summer that is a true piece of craftsmenship. Great to deal with, and a great rifle!