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ltorlo64
12-25-2012, 09:26 PM
I have not been shooting my 1911 very well. I qualified with the Baretta M9 as an expert but can't seem to keep all my rounds on the paper with my 1911. I am on the edge of selling my .45 ACP and getting a Baretta. I really like the idea of owning a 1911, but if I can't hit what I shoot at, not much point in keeping it. On the plus side, this is the pistol I will be using if I am armed at my work. It would also allow me to consolidate my ammo by getting rid of .45 ACP. 9x19 is also much less expensive than .45 ACP and will be readily available. I hate making decisions like this.

Schuetzenman
12-25-2012, 10:46 PM
You have to be doing something terribly wrong if you can't keep the .45 auto on the page. I suppose it is possible something is wrong with the weapon but it would be quite unusual given the modern versions of the 1911 with barrel bushings. The barrel isn't loosey goosey is it, especially at the muzzle? Slide doesn't wobble a bunch does it, if not you're good. There is some clearance necessary for reliable function, but it shouldn't rattle. Are you getting hammer bite on the web of your hand? If so maybe you're flinching.

On a trips to Switzerland 10 years ago I went to a gun range and shot a Sig 210. I went there with the Swiss Engineer I was working with, he found the range after I explained I was into firearms and was looking for a K31 bayonet. The assistant to the Gun Shop / Gun Range owner showed me how to shoot the 210 without getting hammer bite, the 210 is notorious for this. The technique is simple, Stretch your thumb away from the rest of your hand. Nest tip your hand back slightly and force the web of your hand into the grip below the grip safety spur, about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. You're trying to roll the fleshy web of your hand toward your palm. Keep the pressure on and do a combo of slide and a tiny bit of roll to seat your hand in the curve of the grip safety. You keep firm pressure on to keep your flesh stretched and compressed. Then while keeping that pressure on seat the full hand on the grip. Close your fingers around the grip, you're now ready to point and aim.

Also don't forget to use some thumb pressure on the weapon when firing. This makes a world of difference in controlling any handgun that I've used this technique on. I went on that night to win a handgun match they had on the range during their open night shooting league. This was Thursday evenings. We also shot rifles and the range owner let me shoot his non automatic STG57 that was his service rifle when he was active Swiss Military. Ah but I digress. Wish you were closer, we could hook up and I could demo the technique at a range and see if it would improve your accuracy. Also I could try out your .45 1911 and see if there really is anything going wrong with it.

ltorlo64
12-25-2012, 11:03 PM
You have to be doing something terribly wrong if you can't keep the .45 auto on the page. I suppose it is possible something is wrong with the weapon but it would be quite unusual given the modern versions of the 1911 with barrel bushings. The barrel isn't loosey goosey is it, especially at the muzzle? Slide doesn't wobble a bunch does it, if not you're good. There is some clearance necessary for reliable function, but it shouldn't rattle. Are you getting hammer bite on the web of your hand? If so maybe you're flinching.

On a trips to Switzerland 10 years ago I went to a gun range and shot a Sig 210. I went there with the Swiss Engineer I was working with, he found the range after I explained I was into firearms and was looking for a K31 bayonet. The assistant to the Gun Shop / Gun Range owner showed me how to shoot the 210 without getting hammer bite, the 210 is notorious for this. The technique is simple, Stretch your thumb away from the rest of your hand. Nest tip your hand back slightly and force the web of your hand into the grip below the grip safety spur, about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. You're trying to roll the fleshy web of your hand toward your palm. Keep the pressure on and do a combo of slide and a tiny bit of roll to seat your hand in the curve of the grip safety. You keep firm pressure on to keep your flesh stretched and compressed. Then while keeping that pressure on seat the full hand on the grip. Close your fingers around the grip, you're now ready to point and aim.

Also don't forget to use some thumb pressure on the weapon when firing. This makes a world of difference in controlling any handgun that I've used this technique on. I went on that night to win a handgun match they had on the range during their open night shooting league. This was Thursday evenings. We also shot rifles and the range owner let me shoot his non automatic STG57 that was his service rifle when he was active Swiss Military. Ah but I digress. Wish you were closer, we could hook up and I could demo the technique at a range and see if it would improve your accuracy. Also I could try out your .45 1911 and see if there really is anything going wrong with it.

I plan on taking out my 1911 one more time and trying again. I get no hammer bite and the gun seems tight. There is no wobble in any of the parts. I do not put it past myself to be flinching, but I don't know why I shoot my Glock respectfully but my 1911 I do not.

Schuetzenman
12-25-2012, 11:29 PM
So you do OK with a Glock which has one of the worst stock triggers going, interesting. Most folks complain they can't hit crap with their Glocks because the triggers are so gummy vs. a crisp 1911 type trigger. The only thing I could say is the 1911 is much more slender than a Glock.

Is there any pattern to the missing, do they all go left, right, high, or low?

old Grump
12-26-2012, 12:08 AM
How does a known good shooter shoot with that gun? Lets rule out gun problem first.

Sonce you learned on a Beretta and you can shoot a Glock it could be that you and the 1911 grip are not on friendly terms, not all guns fit all hands. Do you have the curved back strap or a flat back strap on the 1911? Makes no difference to me but some people shoot better with one or the other but not both.

ltorlo64
12-26-2012, 10:02 AM
How does a known good shooter shoot with that gun? Lets rule out gun problem first.

Sonce you learned on a Beretta and you can shoot a Glock it could be that you and the 1911 grip are not on friendly terms, not all guns fit all hands. Do you have the curved back strap or a flat back strap on the 1911? Makes no difference to me but some people shoot better with one or the other but not both.

I have a curved back strap. Also, I actually first qualified on an old WWII era 1911 on my first submarine. Of course the qualification for security forces at that time was to get 20 of 30 rounds in the black of a sillohette at 15 yards. I hit 30 of 30 each year but it was not scored except to say inside the sillohette was a hit, outside was a miss. About 15 years later I finally got to shoot the actual qualification course but by then we had shifted to the M9.

ltorlo64
12-26-2012, 10:04 AM
So you do OK with a Glock which has one of the worst stock triggers going, interesting. Most folks complain they can't hit crap with their Glocks because the triggers are so gummy vs. a crisp 1911 type trigger. The only thing I could say is the 1911 is much more slender than a Glock.

Is there any pattern to the missing, do they all go left, right, high, or low?

I am left handed and the rounds mostly go high and right, very few go left. Other than that I do not get a very good grouping even with them going high, they are sort of all over, but all over to the right.

El Laton Caliente
12-26-2012, 10:56 AM
I have a S&W .45 I'm all over the paper with and can switch to my Sig .226 or CZ82 and can print a <4" pattern at the same distance. I wrote it off as some guns just fit some people and others don't.

Schuetzenman
12-26-2012, 01:43 PM
I am left handed and the rounds mostly go high and right, very few go left. Other than that I do not get a very good grouping even with them going high, they are sort of all over, but all over to the right.

Sounds like weak thumb pressure and or a soft hand. Try that tensioning of the hand web like I described and use postive thumb pressure. The .45's launch heavier lead than a 9 mm so there is more recoil energy and torque generated.

Richard Simmons
12-26-2012, 01:53 PM
Maybe the position of your finger on the trigger?

Check out the third post in the link below and reverse for left hand shooting.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f59/help-55088/