The New United States

[Richard Simmons]

So how does this all end? Most of us on this site would probably agree that our nation is in dire straits with self serving and corrupt politicians that continue to ignore and/or run roughshod over our constitution, a population that is becoming more and more dependent on government assistance with each passing day and a national debt that is second to none.

On top of all of this we now face the possibility of a more or less direct assault on our second amendment rights like none we've faced before. So much so that many feel the time for armed resistance is near at hand.

If that is truely the case I can't help but wonder where we go from there? How does another civil war, for lack of a better term end in 2013 America? What changes afterwards? How do we prevent those events that led us to this moment from happening again in a year or ten or 100 or 237? Do we just have a couple of battles and all the liberals in congress leave and get replaced with Tea Party members? How do the winners improve on what our founding fathers gave us?

In 1776 there was a clear enemy and those who wanted to remain subjects of the king could go to England and live if they chose. What happens to the large portion of our population who doesn't really care about gun rights or who favor big government or belong to unions? Where do they go?

We are or once were the greatest country on earth. How do we fix what's broken? Simply shooting police or military that try to confiscate our firearms isn't going to fix anything. Cleaning house in Washington isn't going to fix what's broken since we'll just end up back in the same place we are today given enough time.

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying "rebellion" is wrong. I firmly believe that we must take action and change things if we are to survive as a free people. I'm just wondering how we actually go about it and make sure any sacrifice is worth it and no sacrifice is wasted. I think our problems are pretty vast and have more to do with the way people live their lives and how they want the government involved in those live and that can't be changed through force.

[Altarboy]

Well I think Americans are too well fed and comfortable to fight the government. Time will tell.

[imanaknut]

Give me a free obama-phone and to hell with the rest of the country, I got my obama-phone!

[Schuetzenman]

I answered this quetion in the Fienstein tread, I will repost it here.


For starters; take control of the boarders, term limits for congress, senators to be elected by congressmen vs. popular election as it was ORIGINALLY set up. Strict adherence to the Constitution that the Fed Gov. has no powers not specifically seeded to it in the document. No NEA, no EPA, no EEOC. No variable tax rates, flat 10% on individuals and corporations, no death taxes, (your stuff was already taxed) no paying people to not grow crops, no federal give away to Green Companies, tort reform limit awards to projected income loss. Example; you make 70,000 a year and get injured by a doctor that botches your operation and paralyzes you. You can't work anymore. You're 30 years old and would have worked for another 35 years. Your award would be your annual salary with adjustments allowed for expected inflation and a 3.5% projected increase as if you were getting a raise. In any law suit that is civil in nature the loser pays all lawyer costs.

If I had my way no Giant Penal System. This costs Billions every year to house criminals that 86% of which will do another crime if let out. I'd favor a version of 3 strikes you’re out, in this case out of life. Shove a needle in their arms, we don't need them. Pedophiles once convicted, shove a needle in their arms. It's proven you can't rehabilitate a sex offender, especially a pedophile. You rob somebody you work until you pay them back, you kill somebody in anger you get a needle in the arm, you kill somebody doing a robbery; you get a needle in the arm.

The Fed Gov. has to live within its means brought in through the 10% income tax. No borrowing 42 cents out of every dollar they spend, mandatory balanced budget. (Only during time of war can they exceed the budget) If done right a surplus should be bankable to save for a war emergency expenditure. I'd also have it so that all males at least have to do a Swiss style military service, mandatory 3 years continuous service or serve 1 month out of every year until you're 45 years of age. Maybe this way people will understand that being free takes effort. Employers pay the difference between military pay and what you were earning in private industry. Only certifiably crazy people don't have to serve. Religious objectors get out of a combat role but have to serve in some capacity; medical corps man, (that's pronounced Core-Man President Obama) cook, mechanic, logistics, remf supply clerk, etc.

No welfare state bullshit, you will work to get money and food, you won't be allowed to sit on your ass and squirt out babies. Part of our current problem is the cost to carry so many dead beats that contribute nothing, but suck up many resources. I think I would also like to see the concept of Exile established for anyone that tries to screw with the Constitution. Anyone that proposes an antigun law will have the choice of jail for 1 year or exile for an equal period of time. All laws that pertain to individuals will also apply to Congressmen, Senators and Presidents. There will never be a CZAR of anything ever again. Paper ballots will be used at all polling places, no more computerized balloting. Photo I.D. required, if you have to show one to cash a check buy alcohol, buy a plane ticket, you can bloody well show it at the polling place. The dead will not vote and election theft prevention will be a major goal.

I'm tired of typing, I have many more ideas.

[Richard Simmons]

I answered this quetion in the Fienstein tread, I will repost it here.

But how do you make those things happen AFTER the revolt when we can't make them happen BEFORE? I agree with most everything you posted but how do you intend to make those things happen? Elections? Force of arms?

[Schuetzenman]

But how do you make those things happen AFTER the revolt when we can't make them happen BEFORE? I agree with most everything you posted but how do you intend to make those things happen? Elections? Force of arms?

Assuming a positive victory for those that would restore the original document to its rightful place as the bedrock of all things legal I would see it this way. As it was done originally a combination of military and civilians on the winning side would design the new Government. It would be a big task. All law would have to be reviewed and only law that really fits the Constitution should be allowed to stay on the books, all other laws to be voided. A new Supreme Court would need to be vetted and appointed. It will be hard to prevent corruption and this is the heart of what plagues us now. Corrupt politicians have ruined the country. This is where term limits (2 terms and done for your lifetime) and no special deals, pensions, or exemptions from the laws that govern the normal man should apply to any new Congressmen or Senators.

Reform of public education would need to take place, civics and in particular classes on the constitution along with the 3 R's would need to be mandatory so that we don't raise a bunch of ignorant bums like we currently have. I'm sure there are some secret Constitutional Conservative College Profs out there that could be quite useful in helping to both set up the base line curriculum and the structure of the new Government. Not all of them can be Marxists, though possibly the vast majority are. The reform and proper education of our youth is vital to prevent a similar downward spiral. Educators now want the children to feel good about themselves but they can't spell, balance a checkbook or tell you what states are near the Great Lakes, etc. They can tell you all about Snookie and Kim Kardashian, but nothing about the country they live in. This has to stop.

The word Patriot needs to be a positive thing again, not a pejorative!

The first elections would be very difficult as the takers would try to reelect themselves representatives that would reestablish the free gravy train to them. This assumes that a lot of the sponge class wasn't wiped out during the conflict that might actually be the case. They might starve to death after the whole system of food distribution is disrupted by the conflict.

[Cypher]

We started losing this country with the liberal/socialist/communist indoctrination of the moral and religious values, school system, news sources, and entertainment (TV, movies, music). It may be too late now, I don't know, but I think if we could take back control of these things it would change a lot.

Even now most of the country is conservative so why are so many corrupt politicians in positions of power? Why are people like so many politicians in office even allowed to run. obama should have been laughed out of the race the second his communist affiliations started to come to light, but it didn't happen, this is the biggest problem we face IMO. 50 years ago someone like obama would have been a laughing stock if they tried to run for president, but now thanks to 50 years of indoctrination we have a pseudo muslim, socialist running America.

I don't think there is anything that requires force that can be done at this point, even if there were it would take something with the support of a lot of politicians at the federal, state and city levels, military and police to be successful.

[imanaknut]

50 years ago the news media hadn't figured out that they could make the news and pretty much dictate who wins primaries and elections. Once they figured out that enough people believe everything they see on the tube, the power went to their heads.

Tell a lie enough time and it becomes truth. Just ask any of the news stations.

[Schuetzenman]

50 years ago the news media hadn't figured out that they could make the news and pretty much dictate who wins primaries and elections. Once they figured out that enough people believe everything they see on the tube, the power went to their heads.

Tell a lie enough time and it becomes truth. Just ask any of the news stations.

Yep. The ministry of propaganda needs to be disbanded.

[Krupski]

50 years ago the news media hadn't figured out that they could make the news and pretty much dictate who wins primaries and elections. Once they figured out that enough people believe everything they see on the tube, the power went to their heads.

Tell a lie enough time and it becomes truth. Just ask any of the news stations.


http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/18813.gif



“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

[alismith]

The major threat to any of the actions, listed above, would be other countries coming in and taking advantage of the chaos that would reign for a while. Not sure, with the military spread so thin all over the world, they would be able to get back in time to stop a major invasion (plus those countries that launched an attack would be smart enough to create enough diversions to keep them busy overseas), plus the fact there would be no clear-cut CIC to co-ordinate all the forces into a single fighting unit. Mabye the Joint Chiefs of Staff could form a controlling leadership, but it might be too little, too late.

If no other country got involved, it would still be 50-50 as to the outcome. But, the Revolution was fought with worse odds.

[5.56NATO]

Well I think Americans are too well fed and comfortable to fight the government. Time will tell.

In the late 80s and thru the 90s I never heard Americans talking in public about how evil the various regimes we've had are. Today I am sick of it since I can't get away from it, it's everywhere, from old folks to youth, everywhere I go Americans are awake and they do not trust the regime and they are telling each other. I am not worried about the future.