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AK-J
01-01-2013, 02:40 PM
Back in May or June I decided I wanted something better/different from my first build, an 20" DTI HBAR kit on a Superior Arms Lower (in its final incarnation, it was simply too heavy at 10.5 lbs empty). So since then until the beginning of December, I was collecting parts. While collecting parts for building a new upper, things ended up becoming plans to build three complete rifles. Those three rifles are: My interpretation of an SPR, a lightweight 20" barreled modern rifle, and a clone of an M16A1. I'm still waiting on the receivers to come in on the M16A1 clone (should come in sometime this month from NoDak Spud).

Let's start with the SPR. I originally wanted something a little lighter, but potentially more accurate than my 20" HBAR. It ended up being about one pound lighter when it was finished.

Here's a picture of the parts prior to assembly:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/DSC00179.jpg

The parts include:

-Rainier Arms Ultra Match A4 Upper
-Daniel Defense 18" S2W barrel w/ pinned low-profile gas block
-Mil-Spec barrel nut
-Bravo Company mid-length gas tube
-Young Mfg National Match BCG
-Rainier Arms Raptor Ambidextrous Charging Handle
-Troy 13" Alpha Rail Hand guard
-Troy Flip-up BUIS set
-Troy Low Profile QD swivel socket for Alpha Rail
-Troy Rail section for Alpha Rail
-A1 Flash-hider w/ lock washer
-Spike's Tactical Punisher Lower
-Spike's Tactical Billet Trigger Guard
-Spike's Tactical Lower Parts Kit w/o trigger group
-Troy Ambidextrous Safety
-Magpul OD Miad Grip
-Magpul OD UBR stock
-Spike's Tactical Mil-Spec 17-7 Buffer Spring
-Spike's Tactical Carbine Buffer

Not shown:

-Geissele Super Dynamics Combat trigger Group
-Magpul UBR strike plate
-Troy Ambi Mag release

Before I put it all together, I painted the upper/lower/handguard with Duracoat in Magpul OD green. Below are pictures of the final product:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/SPR001.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/SPR002.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/SPR003.jpg

The scope+mount is the one I'd previously used on my DTI HBAR. It's a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24mm MRAD scope w/ a LaRue Tactical SPR-E mount.

The "Lightweight" rifle was inspired by the barrel I got for my M16A1 clone. After receiving the pencil profile 20" barrel from Fulton Armory for my M16A1 clone, I was impressed by how light it was, and the quality of the barrel was top notch. I got an idea that it would make a starting point for a excellent general purpose rifle that was lightweight, but still maintained the velocity of 20" barrel. And that's how I ended up building this rifle.

The lower receiver is the same one I had ended up with on my HBAR. I just disassembled it to Duracoat it. Other than it using a Superior Arms lower receiver and a Magpul Advanced Trigger Guard (instead of the Spike's units), it's identical to the lower from my SPR.

The upper has the following parts:

-DTI A3 upper (flat-top w/o M4 feed ramps)
-Fulton Armory pencil profile 20" barrel (1-8 twist, Chrome Lined, 5.56mm Chamber) w/ F-marked .625 FSB w/ Bayonet lug (FSB installed w/ taper pins by ADCO firearms [the only thing I didn't do myself on both rifles, as I didn't want to dick it up])
-Mil-spec barrel nut
-rifle length gas tube
-Young Mfg hard chromed BCG w/ gas key bolts staked by Rainier Arms
-A1 flash-hider
-Troy 13" Alpha Rail modified (shortened by removing about 1/2" from the front to allow the FSB to fit)
-Troy rear flip-up BUIS
-Also has two Troy QD sling sockets on left side (one towards the muzzle, one near the receiver) that fit into the cooling holes (they look invisible with the squid grips installed)
-Raptor Ambi charging handle

This rifle also had the upper/lower/handguard duracoated:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/Lightweight_Rifle001.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/Lightweight_Rifle002.jpg

It ends up coming in a 7 lbs 5 oz empty. I think I could lose another pound or so if I went with a M4 buffer tube and stock, but the UBR stocks are just too nice.

I painted and built both rifles at the same time. Both have had 180rds through each of them, with out any failures. I can't yet report what their accuracy is, as I haven't been to a formal rifle range so far to zero them.

The hardest part about assembling these rifles was waiting for the parts to become available and prepping for painting. With the right tools, it was super easy. I am glad that I was able to first learn to assemble the lowers w/ my first build, and I was able to really get to know the AR-15 weapon platform prior to tackling a complete build. Another note, these build were the opposite of budget builds. The parts were all pricey, and the total cost adds up very quickly.

I really like the Raptor Ambi charging handle. It's very well made and over built. The "T" latches don't over protrude, but are wide enough to get a good purchase on. I am also now a super fan of the Troy Alpha Rail. It doesn't really as any extra weight (only .25 oz heavier than A2 handguards and doesn't use the slip ring or forward handguard retainer), is slim, easy to install, and only has the rails that you actually feel that you need.

As I said before, I'm still waiting on the receivers for my M16A1 clone build, but fortunately I have all of the other parts I need. Because I waited too long to decide to build a retro rifle, finding correct parts was much more difficult than it would have been if I had jumped on those parts kits that used to be available. Plus it would have been cheaper. The most difficult things to locate where the correct slip ring and front sight base. No one seems to make reproductions of either right now.

PS: Below is a couple of pictures of my first build. Both as it was assembled originally, and the final incarnation. I strongly suggest that if anyone decides to build/purchase a 20" barreled rifle, to not go for the HBAR, but the Gov't profile (A2). It now looks as it originally did. It now has a DTI lower with all the original lower parts, and the Daniel Defense handguard has been replaced with the original A2 unit.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/AR15complete.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/AR15showcase003.jpg

silentkilla
01-01-2013, 02:53 PM
WOW!!! they are really nice brother! and were did you come up with that charging handle for the first? i was goging to go with BCMgunfighter but i like that one much better. does it work well with a scope? i took my Eotec off and put a 3x9x40 luepold on to deer hunt with, does it clear a scope fairly good?

AK-J
01-01-2013, 02:58 PM
WOW!!! they are really nice brother! and were did you come up with that charging handle for the first? i was goging to go with BCMgunfighter but i like that one much better. does it work well with a scope? i took my Eotec off and put a 3x9x40 luepold on to deer hunt with, does it clear a scope fairly good?

Thanks!

Yes, it clears the scope fantastically! You can find them here: http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3172

silentkilla
01-01-2013, 03:02 PM
thanks for the info and have fun with your new toys they look great and i hope they proform good to for you

nikko
01-01-2013, 04:43 PM
so a 10 lb rifle is "too heavy"? how do those fools with 308 autos handle them, then? :-)

AK-J
01-01-2013, 05:13 PM
so a 10 lb rifle is "too heavy"? how do those fools with 308 autos handle them, then? :-)

For what it really had to offer, yes it is. First, it ain't a .308. It doesn't need to be that heavy to function. Second, all things being equal, there is nothing that my HBAR can do that the lightweight rifle I built could do just as well, or better.

imanaknut
01-01-2013, 05:41 PM
Very nice family you have there AK-J !!!

ltorlo64
01-01-2013, 05:52 PM
Both are nice but I have to say I like the government model better. I just like the lines.

Schuetzenman
01-01-2013, 06:45 PM
Those are really nice, congrats on a fine job on the builds! I think I'd of had to put up a paper bullsey target of some sort to see what kind of grouping they were capable of. Function checks are fine but if you can't hit anything with them, not good.

binky59
01-01-2013, 07:38 PM
Very nice builds, It's giving me the itch, where is my wallet.............

silentkilla
01-01-2013, 07:44 PM
same here but don't have the money for another build or purchase right now. things are pretty tight around the house. can afford another 30-30 if anyone has one for sell. or a cheap but nice 308 would be good to! got enogh venison to feed us all though!lol

davepool
01-01-2013, 08:32 PM
Damn those are nice, i really need to get off my butt and build those lowers i have in my safe

Solidus-snake
01-01-2013, 08:42 PM
Ah I see your rocking a Raptor charging handle. Sweet looking build, I've got a raptor on my list as well.

AK-J
01-07-2013, 05:01 PM
Thanks everyone for the compliments!

Update: Just got back from zeroing the sights on the "Light Weight" rifle. Using PMC 62 grain 5.56 @ 50 yrds from bench rest it groups just under 1".

AK-J
01-19-2013, 06:09 PM
My M16A1 clone is finished!

My retro receivers from Nodak Spud finally arrived at my gun dealer on Thursday. Here is what they looked like after I picked them up:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/NODAKSPUDReceivers.jpg

I assembled the lower receiver and the small parts onto the upper receiver Thursday night. I installed the barrel assembly this morning, and here is the finished product!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/M16A1Clone.jpg

It's a mix of original, reproduction, and new parts. I wish I would have picked up one of those parts kits they had when they were everywhere, would have saved me some time and money. It's not a 100% faithful copy, but it's very close, and I don't think it would be worth my time tracking down some more original parts to make it so.

I plan on shooting it tomorrow to test for function and break it in a little. Later next week I plan to take it to a formal range to zero it.

It is quite light... it weighs just shy of 6 lbs empty!

I like it a lot!

Schuetzenman
01-19-2013, 06:30 PM
Nice, but with no brass deflecter, I hope you're not a left hand shooter.

NAPOTS
01-19-2013, 11:26 PM
Very nice! Both my 20"a2 and my 16"m4 have heavy barrels I'd love to throw a govt profile barrel on each of them to shave some weight

Schuetzenman
01-20-2013, 09:55 AM
Very nice! Both my 20"a2 and my 16"m4 have heavy barrels I'd love to throw a govt profile barrel on each of them to shave some weight

You know so many gun people rave about the AKM being light and "handy", (reliablity a given) but those same people will almost always go for the heaviest barrel they can get. I've been there, done that, still have the HBAR config rifles. For 600 yard work, yes they are better, but for a close quarters weapon 150 yards and less you can't beat a light barrel profile for how it makes the AR speedier to manuver and easier to stop at the end of movement. It doesn't have the inertia to overcome that the heavier HBAR's have. I just finished a 16" middy with light profile for my wife and the Grandkids to shoot and I have to say I like the way it handles. Very fast to get on target and change from target to target, far more so than my original middy 16" build that has an HBAR profile barrel.

mrkalashnikov
01-23-2013, 03:46 PM
Very nice builds, AK-J. I especially dig your vintage M16 clone. :thumbsup:

Nice photos, too!

Partisan1983
01-23-2013, 04:39 PM
Very nice man. I am jealous!

TEN-32
01-23-2013, 05:48 PM
Nice job on all of them. Thanks for posting them up.

Bluedog
01-24-2013, 11:15 PM
Nice, but with no brass deflecter, I hope you're not a left hand shooter.

I'm a lefty and and own a few A1s. I've never been hit by brass. Mine always lands at about 4 o'clock, but I do tune my gas systems.

AK-J
01-25-2013, 12:44 PM
Thanks, everyone, for the compliments! I don't know why I was so apprehensive about assembling the uppers myself. If you have an idea of what you're doing around a car/truck, these things are a piece of cake. I'm really glad I had ordered all the parts I needed before this panic BS.

NAPOTS, if you're generally happy with your barrels, but just want them lighter... places like ADCO firearms can recontour your existing barrels to what ever profile you wish. I plan on eventually sending in the barrel on my HBAR to have in recontoured to a gov't profile A2 barrel.

Schuetzenman, I'm right handed, so no worries there. Truthfully, however, I let a friend of mine (who is left handed) shoot it, and the brass just missed his face. They seem to be landing at about the 4:30 position. Judging from the marks on the forward assist, it seemed to be acting as a shell deflector of sorts. Interesting.

AK-J
01-25-2013, 01:08 PM
Here is a picture of the entire family:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/ARfamily.jpg

Schuetzenman
01-25-2013, 09:28 PM
Very, very nice family photo! You can be proud of those!

NAPOTS
01-25-2013, 11:10 PM
Thanks, everyone, for the compliments! I don't know why I was so apprehensive about assembling the uppers myself. If you have an idea of what you're doing around a car/truck, these things are a piece of cake. I'm really glad I had ordered all the parts I needed before this panic BS.

NAPOTS, if you're generally happy with your barrels, but just want them lighter... places like ADCO firearms can recontour your existing barrels to what ever profile you wish. I plan on eventually sending in the barrel on my HBAR to have in recontoured to a gov't profile A2 barrel.

Schuetzenman, I'm right handed, so no worries there. Truthfully, however, I let a friend of mine (who is left handed) shoot it, and the brass just missed his face. They seem to be landing at about the 4:30 position. Judging from the marks on the forward assist, it seemed to be acting as a shell deflector of sorts. Interesting.

Don't tempt me I'd love to ditch some weight but that armalite hbar just shoots too nice to mess with.

abpt1
01-26-2013, 02:14 PM
Very nice :thumbsup:

I like the pencil 20 my last build I used a DTI 20 Pencil , No other AR feels as good as that one....Very well balanced .

mrkalashnikov
01-28-2013, 08:09 AM
Here is a picture of the entire family:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/ARfamily.jpg

AR-a-Licious!

AK-J
06-20-2013, 03:21 PM
Update: I was finally able to zero my SPR today. I've got to say, this rifle is fantastic! It reliably shoots under 1" groups @ 100yds off a bench rest (w/ 5.56 NATO 62gr Green-tip LAP). Can't wait until I can get some match ammo to try out!

Funny story; The windage didn't change from between my HBAR and my SPR, only had to adjust for elevation. I thought to was interesting.

Partisan1983
06-20-2013, 03:32 PM
AK-J -Can you tell me more about the triggers you have on the top 2 rifles in your pic?

AK-J
06-20-2013, 03:57 PM
AK-J -Can you tell me more about the triggers you have on the top 2 rifles in your pic?

They're both Super Dynamic Combat triggers made by Geissele Automatics. Link (http://geissele.com/superdynamiccombat.aspx) They are 2-stage triggers, designed to be dropped in just like the original FCG. The Super Dynamic trigger is straight w/ a wide face. They have a short and light take-up 1st stage, w/ a crisp 2nd stage. The "Combat" version has a heavier 2nd stage than the "Enhanced" and "3 Gun", but it is still quite light.

Kind of pricey, but I like them very much, and I can't recommend them enough.

Partisan1983
06-20-2013, 04:52 PM
They're both Super Dynamic Combat triggers made by Geissele Automatics. Link (http://geissele.com/superdynamiccombat.aspx) They are 2-stage triggers, designed to be dropped in just like the original FCG. The Super Dynamic trigger is straight w/ a wide face. They have a short and light take-up 1st stage, w/ a crisp 2nd stage. The "Combat" version has a heavier 2nd stage than the "Enhanced" and "3 Gun", but it is still quite light.

Kind of pricey, but I like them very much, and I can't recommend them enough.


How rugged/reliable are they under adverse conditions?


Also, do they work with winter time gloves? ...as in the snow and ice are beyond my junk and ass, but not yet touching my nipples...

AK-J
06-20-2013, 05:59 PM
How rugged/reliable are they under adverse conditions?


Also, do they work with winter time gloves? ...as in the snow and ice are beyond my junk and ass, but not yet touching my nipples...

I couldn't say for sure, but they are advertised as being the Semi-auto only version of FCG that are designed to be as reliable (or maybe even more so) than the standard Mil-spec FCG.

Winter Gloves? I'm in Texas, so my winter gloves are probably not the same as yours. They work just fine as long as you don't have a B.A.D. Lever installed, but you might want to think about Geissele's SSA (Super Semi-Automatic) triggers, as they have the standard trigger profile. Those are what I have in my other two AR-15s, and the trigger pull and reset is the same.

Partisan1983
06-21-2013, 03:30 PM
Cool. Thanks for the info man. :thumbsup:

mrkalashnikov
06-21-2013, 04:03 PM
Nice! :thumbsup:

nfa1934
06-22-2013, 06:39 AM
+1 on the Geisselle triggers. I have a Super Dynamic-3 Gun, a Super Semi-Automatic-Enhanced, and a Super Dynamic-Enhanced in three of my rifles. I only use their triggers in new builds since trying them. Definitely worth the money.

Schuetzenman
07-03-2013, 10:30 PM
+1 on the Geisselle triggers. I have a Super Dynamic-3 Gun, a Super Semi-Automatic-Enhanced, and a Super Dynamic-Enhanced in three of my rifles. I only use their triggers in new builds since trying them. Definitely worth the money.

So what's the difference between models? Describe what is different between a Super Dynamic -3 gun and a Super Semi-Enhanced and a Super Dynamic Enhanced. I've also seen a target version.

silentkilla
07-04-2013, 09:29 AM
Here is a picture of the entire family:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/avtomatj/ARfamily.jpg

that is freaking awesome!!! i am jealous as hell and want the second from top really bad!!! or the top don't matter....... or the two at the bottom... lol