Trying to understand a particular 56s-1 underfolder

[RogersNative]

Hello all, I'm hoping to tap into your collective expertise to help me figure out what I'm considering purchasing. There's a local guy with a 56s-1 underfolder for sale, asking $1500. I love the rifle but am trying to determine if it's pre-ban and, if not, what is a fair price for it.

Here's what I know: It looks great. Very little wear. Numbers all match. Seller claims it's unfired but he's only had it 5 years so I don't know if he can really know that. It's stamped as 56s-1, without that menacing preceding "1". 66 in a triangle. Stamped with Sile. It doesn't include any of its original accessories (bayo, sling, etc).

Here's where I'm concerned: There's either a muzzle break or flash suppressor on it. I'd hate to think that someone would attach that to so beautiful a specimen, so it got me wondering if maybe it got caught up at customs as the bad was being implemented. I forgot to look at the bayo lug so I can't tell you about that. Moreover, I'm a newbie and am not certain what the lug should look like versus what it would look like if it had been filed down.

I love the rifle and if I purchased it I'd shoot it. But I wouldn't shoot it that much, would maintain it, keep it looking nice, and would hope to sell it someday. So I am concerned about a potential resale value.

Ultimately what I want to know is a) do you think it's pre-ban? b) what do you think is fair today? c) what do you think would have been fair 2 months ago?

Thanks in advance, any help would be much appreciated. Below are a few pictures...they're not great but hopefully you can see something meaningful.

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http://www.gunsnet.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2182&d=1359145380

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http://www.gunsnet.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2183&d=1359145948

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http://www.gunsnet.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2184&d=1359146021

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http://www.gunsnet.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2185&d=1359146096

Sorry for not having the pics embedded...I'll try to figure out what I did wrong.

[imanaknut]

Welcome to the group !!! :welcome:

Give me a minute or two to check your pictures.

Minute is up, added your photos to your post. There is a square in the tool bar at the top of the edit window that looks like it has a dot in each corner, and looks like a tree on yellow ground. First right click on your photo and click on copy URL. Then go to your post edit window and click on that box at the top marked Insert Image and got to from URL, uncheck the box and past the URL into the window. Click ok and your photo will appear in your post.

The third picture is the winner, showing the "MS" serial number indicating an early 56S-1, a very desirable model to a collector. (yes a pre-Bush1-ban)

The muzzle brake is one from an AK-74, which does a great job reducing felt recoil, but not correct for the Norinco which should have either a slant brake or muzzle nut. It should be easy to remove it by pushing in the retaining pin on front of the front site, and rotating the brake "the wrong way". Don't know how much you know about AKs, but AKs are threaded left hand, so the brake turns on or off in the wrong direction from normal.

To check to see if it is indeed "unfired" remove that brake and check the muzzle crown. It should be clean, and some actually have chrome showing from the barrel lining like a ring around the inside of the crown. Not all do, but there should be no carbon on the muzzle.

Next, of course the gas piston should be clean, and most people remove carbon from it to make it look new, but forget to clean the inside of the gas block and/or gas tube. A little gray in the tube or gas block is ok because the rifle was test fired at the factory, but it should not be black.

Next, the bolt carrier and bolt impact the rear of the receiver leaving witness marks on the rear trunion. You can actually see a shiny ring on the rear trunion where the recoil spring slides in that matches the rear of the carrier/bolt assembly. Now here is a catch, if the user was like me, I always use a Blackjack buffer on my recoil spring to protect the back of the receiver and the bolt itself. If one was used, there will be no witness marks.

Next, one place many forget to clean is inside the rear sight block. Gasses do get back there and if not cleaned will turn a nice white patch black. Also check that little area under the barrel where it juts into the front trunion, where the round enters. Many people clean the sides and top of the chamber area, but forget to run a patch under the barrel. (understand why I am an AK-nut?)

In today's market, $1500 is right at the top of what the normal Norinco 56S-1 is selling for. New in box a bit more, but they are skyrocketing in value. Offer the seller $1200 cash if you can. If $1500 is his asking price, he might have room to haggle, but if not, and the rifle doesn't show the marks and dirt I pointed out, it is a nice rifle, and because it is the MS variant a nice rifle to own.

Good luck, keep us posted, and again welcome to the site

[RogersNative]

Thanks a lot. If they're not big enough I can try to replace them with larger pics later tonight.

[imanaknut]

Pictures are ok. About the only thing that is hard to see is the magazine, which looks European and not Chinese. The Chinese for the most part do not have a spine which makes mag changes easier on the fingers. A Chinese mag has two parallel ridges along the bottom of the mag on either side just above the mag floor plate. With the exception of Yugoslavian mags, for the most part European mags all have spines, and three short ridges on either side of the lower part of the mag just above the floor plate.

In truth it doesn't matter with a shooter, but if you want to keep it all Chinese the mag should at least be Chinese.

[RogersNative]

imanaknut, wow, thanks for so thorough of a response. Since I'd shoot it if I bought it I'm not too concerned with whether it's unfired so long as it hasn't been shot much.

Aren't some muzzle breaks welded on? If so does that impact my ability to resell it?

Thanks again for your help. I just offered him $1250. Doubt he'll take it but you never know.

[imanaknut]

Muzzle devices were only welded on during the clinton stupidity of 1994 through 2004. Before and after they can be removable. The one on the 56S-1 should not be welded on.