New gun safe, need to mount it to the floor now!

[Cypher]

ok, I don't have it yet but I am trying to get all the hardware together for it. I have a cement slab and it is a 24 gun safe, 460 lb. unloaded.

what size bolts/anchor/sleeve should I use to make sure it is sturdy enough and you can't just push and pull the safe back and forth and pull them out?

Should I use a lead sleeve and lag bolt or a anchor like the type you hammer in and then use a nut and washer to tighten it up?

Another concern is how hard it is to get it out if I ever want to move the safe some day, a little nub sticking out would be a pain if you can remove it while the safe is in place.

It will also go on carpet so I was thinking about cutting three edges of a square just big enough for the bolts but not larger than the base of the safe so I can fold it back over and used double sided tape if we move some day so the carpet isn't ruined. Maybe it would be better to cut it out completely and then put it back in later, any ideas on how to do this without ruining the carpet?

I also have a dolly with inflatable tires that is rated for 600 lbs. I'm hoping me and a buddy can move it without too much trouble and then slide it in place with furniture sliders. Is this doable with two strong guys?

[Richard Simmons]

Use a Hilti or Redhead "wedge anchor" type fastener. Depends on the size of the anchor holes in the bottom of the safe but I would think four 3/8" or 1/2" anchors 4"+ into the concrete would suffice.

https://www.us.hilti.com/holus/page/module/product/prca_catnavigation.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-60204

[Kadmos]

I'd just use lead sleeves and lag screws. A hammer drill will make that process go much faster.

I'd cut the carpet square out personally.

As to size, the biggest that will fit through the holes in the bottom of the safe, and go down about an inch and a half. A lot of slabs are way thinner than people think, if you punch through it then you may have just made a way for water to get in.

I wouldn't be overly worried about someone rocking it back and forth to get it loose, especially if it is sitting a bit lower than the carpet, which makes it tough to hammer a wedge under a corner.

[nitewatcherXX]

Use a Hilti or Redhead "wedge anchor" type fastener. Depends on the size of the anchor holes in the bottom of the safe but I would think four 3/8" or 1/2" anchors 4"+ into the concrete would suffice.

https://www.us.hilti.com/holus/page/module/product/prca_catnavigation.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-60204


Agree ^^^ Important to also make sure you get all the concrete dust and shards out of the hole before installing. If you dont sometimes they wont bite

[Schuetzenman]

Use the biggest size the holes in your vault allow for. I think 5/8ths is what I have.

[Goodman]

Epoxy....made for the purpose.....and allthread cut to
suit. As mentioned above, clean your holes thoroughly-
Preferably using compressed air.
Something like this: http://www.powers.com/product_0500SD.php
I like to do it this way because it always works and you never have a slipping bolt or oversize hole.
Did i mention it works every time?

[Broondog]

Epoxy....made for the purpose.....and allthread cut to
suit. As mentioned above, clean your holes thoroughly-
Preferably using compressed air.
Something like this: http://www.powers.com/product_0500SD.php
I like to do it this way because it always works and you never have a slipping bolt or oversize hole.
Did i mention it works every time?

is this stuff permanent, as in your bolt will never come out again? or is it more like something that essentially creates a threaded channel bonded with the concrete yet allows bolt removal (and maybe replacement)?

[Goodman]

is this stuff permanent, as in your bolt will never come out again? or is it more like something that essentially creates a threaded channel bonded with the concrete yet allows bolt removal (and maybe replacement)?
Permanent. The stuff is designed to be a structural element of your foundation. If you want to get rid of the bolts later, allthread is a bit easier to cut than expansion bolts- just a flush cut with a sawzall- and I have full confidence the softer steel would not reduce the security of a bolted safe.

[El Laton Caliente]

Kadmos is right, most house slabs are only 3½" or 4" thick except in the "beam" areas. So drill not more than 2" deep with a hammer drill.

Do use as large a diameter bolt as will fit the holes in the safe.

I would use Red Head or Hilti bolts SET IN EPOXY. Make sure to blow the holes out with air pressure. They make a glass vile with epoxy in them you just drop into the hole before "setting" the bolts in place; the bolt breaks the glass and mixes the epoxy.

You can cut the bolts off with a cutting disk on a side grinder flush with the concrete.

[l921428x]

3/8" in drop in anchor and a bolt is all you need. you sound paranoid.

[Integratedj]

Make sure you don't have a Post tension base slab for a foundation. If you do and you happen to drill into one of the tension cables you'll be really, really sorry. I watched a jack ass customer destroy a 6000 sq ft house because he decided he needed an extra floor box in the family room for Electrical as well as Xbox connections and Network ports. He took after it with a concrete saw and went right through a tension cable. It cracked the slab almost the entire length of his house. It sounded awesome. It was everything we could do not to laugh directly in his face since we had all just warned him not to do what he was doing.

Your garage should be stamped someplace stating that it is a post tension slab, and you might be able to see large washers and Bolts along the foundation around the outside of the house.

If you have a standard non tension slab just do as above. Drill it and either use Red Heads like I did, or epoxy all thread into the ground. I've done it both ways and they both work great.

[Cypher]

Good tips, thanks for the info. I didn't think about using a epoxy, will any standard concrete grade epoxy work fine? I don't think it will matter much even if I can't get the bolt out as long as I can cut it flush with the slab.

I don't think I have a tension slab but I will make sure to check and see. If so is any and all drilling or cutting out or can you use a metal detector to avoid the cables?




3/8" in drop in anchor and a bolt is all you need. you sound paranoid.

Well, when the aliens in black choppers come to get me I am going to hide in the safe so I wouldn't want them to be able to just pry it up because I didn't anchor it down correctly now would I? :boozer:

[El Laton Caliente]

You should have exposed cable tensioning ends or round grout patches where they were filled in just above ground level on the slab if it is a cable slab. If the house is 1970s or older it isn't cable...

[Integratedj]

Good tips, thanks for the info. I didn't think about using a epoxy, will any standard concrete grade epoxy work fine? I don't think it will matter much even if I can't get the bolt out as long as I can cut it flush with the slab.



Simpson Strongtie makes an epoxy specifically for this application. I have had to remove bolts put in with it in the past, and believe me it is strong stuff. The concrete and Bolts will fail long before the Epoxy does. It's a 2 part that comes in a little syringe looking applicator. Squirt it in and go to town.

Personally, I just used Red Heads. It isn't moving and if some one wants to take the time to break it free of the concrete, they will also be destroying their hearing. I have my closet the safes live in Triggered on the door, a motion sensor, as well as each safe door contacted in addition to Tilt sensors inside the safes. If it goes off, there are three 154db sirens mounted out of reach on the ceiling pointing at each safe. each one has it's own separate power supply (All hidden inside another Safe). It is not pleasant in the closet when it goes off. In fact, it flat out sucks ass.
At a friends house, he keeps all his gear in a shipping conex turned shop. Basically a giant steel box with a door at one end. We rigged his up off of a 400 gallon air compressor tied into a freight train horn mounted inside that Conex. Fuck going deaf if you break in there, your guts will shit out of you so fast your head will spin. It is nauseating as hell being near that thing when we tested it. It dumps the entire compressor load when it trips.
There is all sorts of extra stuff you can do to screw over thieves.

Another thing to do is put the safe in a corner, and orient the door so as to make it impossible to get any leverage with a pry bar. Anything to make it more difficult and slow the thieves down.

[Kadmos]

Just remember, if you do use epoxy or something else where you have to cut the bolt heads off to get it out then you will have to lift the safe up to get it over the bolt shanks that are still there. Something that can present an extra challenge later on.

[Cypher]

Simpson Strongtie makes an epoxy specifically for this application. I have had to remove bolts put in with it in the past, and believe me it is strong stuff. The concrete and Bolts will fail long before the Epoxy does. It's a 2 part that comes in a little syringe looking applicator. Squirt it in and go to town.

Personally, I just used Red Heads. It isn't moving and if some one wants to take the time to break it free of the concrete, they will also be destroying their hearing. I have my closet the safes live in Triggered on the door, a motion sensor, as well as each safe door contacted in addition to Tilt sensors inside the safes. If it goes off, there are three 154db sirens mounted out of reach on the ceiling pointing at each safe. each one has it's own separate power supply (All hidden inside another Safe). It is not pleasant in the closet when it goes off. In fact, it flat out sucks ass.
At a friends house, he keeps all his gear in a shipping conex turned shop. Basically a giant steel box with a door at one end. We rigged his up off of a 400 gallon air compressor tied into a freight train horn mounted inside that Conex. Fuck going deaf if you break in there, your guts will shit out of you so fast your head will spin. It is nauseating as hell being near that thing when we tested it. It dumps the entire compressor load when it trips.
There is all sorts of extra stuff you can do to screw over thieves.

Another thing to do is put the safe in a corner, and orient the door so as to make it impossible to get any leverage with a pry bar. Anything to make it more difficult and slow the thieves down.

Good ideas, I am putting it in a corner where the door swings the other way so you would have to break out the wall out to pry on the open side of the door, from what I understand it is extremely hard to pry open a door while the safe is standing. I thought about attaching a chain two ways and padlocking it in a few places for when I am going to be out of town but I don't know if it will work yet. A heavy chain may not be super hard to get through but it will add a few minutes to the time it would take to break in and maybe require some additional tools and add some protection from defeating the combination lock.


Just remember, if you do use epoxy or something else where you have to cut the bolt heads off to get it out then you will have to lift the safe up to get it over the bolt shanks that are still there. Something that can present an extra challenge later on.

That's one reason I am thinking about using a drop in anchor. It seems like it works similar to a lead sleeve but sturdier and a bolt goes into it instead of a nut with a nub sticking out.

[l921428x]

Good tips, thanks for the info. I didn't think about using a epoxy, will any standard concrete grade epoxy work fine? I don't think it will matter much even if I can't get the bolt out as long as I can cut it flush with the slab.

I don't think I have a tension slab but I will make sure to check and see. If so is any and all drilling or cutting out or can you use a metal detector to avoid the cables?





Well, when the aliens in black choppers come to get me I am going to hide in the safe so I wouldn't want them to be able to just pry it up because I didn't anchor it down correctly now would I? :boozer:
they will just teleport you anyway.

[Cypher]

they will just teleport you anyway.

CRAP!!! will it help if I line it with tin foil? I thought I read that tin foil doesn't work anymore though.