need some help with my h&k93

[silentkilla]

guy i need some help figuring out what is going on with my 93. went to the range this morning and set up. chambered a round in my 93 and it crushed the brass casing like i have never seen! i'll post some pics and you all give me some advise please or is it just a 2000 dollar mistake....

[silentkilla]

well it will not let me down load pics now....... YAH!!!!!!!! great freaking day!!

[El Laton Caliente]

Damaged the case loading or when fired?

Did you pull the bolt back, lock it in place, insert the mag and the let the bolt slam home?

[silentkilla]

during loading.. i cycled a round in. seemed ok so i aimed and pulled the trigger..... click. nothing . unloaded the gun and seen were it crushed the bullet.

[El Laton Caliente]

Sound stupid, but is there anything on the barrel or chamber?

Check the chamber, bolt, roller, trunion for clean...

[silentkilla]

i inserted the mag. pulled the bolt back. then hit it to let the bolt slam home.

[silentkilla]

i'm fixing to tear it down and look through it. but when i got it i gave it a cleaning like you would not beleive! but going to check again. i wish i could post some pick to let you see. it right at the bullets neck on both sides.

[Partisan1983]

What kind of condition is the mag, you are using, in?

[silentkilla]

i can't figure it out? everything seems to function as it should.. no objects in the way no nothing the bore is clear, just don't understand what is going on with it.

[silentkilla]

its the old 40 rd. style that came with them. i mean you can shake it and hear rattling but the spring and all is fair

[Partisan1983]

Does the follower hang up anywhere?

Is there shit/debris inside?

How are the feed lips?

[silentkilla]

Does the follower hang up anywhere?

Is there shit/debris inside?

How are the feed lips?

no its clean as a whistle. did not know they had a second spring inside till just now though. lol

[silentkilla]

trying to post some picks of the shell but it will not let me....

[Partisan1983]

Please don't take this in offense....but did you double check you are using .223/5.56 rounds?

[silentkilla]

lol...... 223 remington

[silentkilla]

its saying javascript is down or some shit.... wish i could post some pictures.... jeez what a freaking day!!!!!!

[Partisan1983]

lol...... 223 remington


Hey it happens.

I almost bought 5 boxes of .222Rem the other day thinking it was .223Rem :)

[silentkilla]

o yeah its real easy to pick up the wrong thing.

[Partisan1983]

....pics would help out a lot

[silentkilla]

it will not let me insert a picture

[Full Otto]

Try here you just have to post the code in your post

http://tinypic.com/

[silentkilla]

still won't let me do crap! my wife downloaded aol 9.7 and ever since then....... nothing. yes i'm still in the stone age with my dial up..lol

[El Laton Caliente]

Have you shot it with this mag before?

[silentkilla]

first time i took it out since i bought it. the guy i bought it from works with me and was selling it for a friend . yeah i trusted him that it would fire in other words. well spent 2 grand huh??? lol

[Partisan1983]

Don't worry....many of us on here are huge fans of roller locked smallarms. We will figure it out.

[deth502]

sounds like you got fucked. time to cut your losses. ill give you $100 for it if you cover the cost of shipping it to me.

[silentkilla]

I wish i could post a pic so you guys could see the casing. it won't even let me upload one into my photo gallery on here. don't know whats going on with that one?

[silentkilla]

yeah right! lmao... i hear ya deth

[silentkilla]

ok i think i might have a pic. we will see. http://i40.tinypic.com133v1a2h.jpg

[silentkilla]

never freakin mind.....jeez

[silentkilla]

full otto, its downloading the picture on tiny pics and giving me a code and all that but when you go to it its not coming up.

[silentkilla]

ok it finally let me upload them into the gallery. now you all can see the damn thing finally!!!!

[El Laton Caliente]

sounds like you got fucked. time to cut your losses. ill give you $100 for it if you cover the cost of shipping it to me.

I'll be generous and magnanimous... $500!

[Partisan1983]

Ok to me it looks like it is short stroking (I could be wrong...but like I said earlier, we all will finally solve the problem)



A couple of things to check...


Take your lower off and check out your return spring and catch for the hammer. Basically while holding the lower in one hand apply pressure to the hammer as you pull the trigger. Do not let the hammer slam home. Just keep constant pressure on it for it's whole travel range. While doing this still keep the trigger pulled back. Once the hammer has reached it's limit, push back on it until it engages the catch. Now you can release the trigger. After releasing the trigger and your hammer might go flying forward...if it does you will need to replace spring and catch.


Since you have the gun apart now, check out the bolt...clean the fuck outta it. Didn't you just buy a new buttstock? If it is buffered make sure you remove the buffer from your bolt.

Put everything back together and measure your bolt-gap.


If all that is fine, your extractor springs are worn out and need to be replaced

[silentkilla]

ok the hammer did not go flying forward so i guess that part is good? the buttstock was not buffered. my bcg is buffered.

[El Laton Caliente]

Did you load 41 in a 40?

Get another mag and try again...

Check the mag latch and see if it looks "off" or tampered with...

[Partisan1983]

Can you take a pic of the buttstock where the bolt carrier meets it?


Good idea ELC.

[silentkilla]

ok the pics in the gallery. no ELC i did not. i only loaded 4 bullets in the mag. the first one did that. and what sucks is that is the only mag i have for that rifle and everyone i mean EVERYONE is out of stock on them that i know of anyway. and i really don't have the damn money to spend 80 bucks on one anyway. lol

[Partisan1983]

Your buttstock is buffered.

Remove the buffer from your bolt.


That shouldn't be the main issue though. What does your bolt-gap measure out to be?

[El Laton Caliente]

There are steel mags on gun broker and Apex has aluminum... neither are cheap...

The buffered stock-buffered bolt should only cause a problem after the trigger is pulled...

I think Partisan is on to something with the extractor/extractor spring. That would hold a round off center when loading.

I'm not sure we have eliminated a mag or mag latch problem...

[El Laton Caliente]

What does your bolt-gap measure out to be?

IIRC, that is also a post trigger pull event... normally premature extraction at too high a pressure... still good to check a new to you rifle...

[imanaknut]

IIRC, that is also a post trigger pull event... normally premature extraction at too high a pressure... still good to check a new to you rifle...

I hate when that happens! :smiley31:

[silentkilla]

ok i went out side and tried it again. done the same thing. i was looking at the inside a while ago and noticed a piece of the plastic o ring from the mp5 stock that was on it though. got it out...tried again and same thing. wish i had some dummy rounds. kinda scary with live ammo. the mag latch seems fine but look who you are talking too. i'm new to this type of rifle.

[El Laton Caliente]

I hate when that happens! :smiley31:

Go sit in the corner and fondle your chi-coms... lol

[silentkilla]

whats the best way to check your bolt-gap guys? lol very funny nut!! oh, still won't let me load pics.... it only says copy or copt to short cut. i click on either one it does nothing...

[El Laton Caliente]

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll228/ElLatonCaliente/Firearms/kellys_picture_of_butt_115_zps86292ba9.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/ElLatonCaliente/media/Firearms/kellys_picture_of_butt_115_zps86292ba9.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll228/ElLatonCaliente/Firearms/BULLET_IMG_2931_zpsdc9532ed.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/ElLatonCaliente/media/Firearms/BULLET_IMG_2931_zpsdc9532ed.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll228/ElLatonCaliente/Firearms/BULLET_IMG_2930_zps40b87d50.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/ElLatonCaliente/media/Firearms/BULLET_IMG_2930_zps40b87d50.jpg.html)

Holy shit, that is one hell of a damaged case!

I can't get the pictures to display either... worked out of photobucket...

[imanaknut]

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/559/BULLET_IMG_2930.JPG

Can you see it now?

[silentkilla]

yep. thanks nut. by the way you all.... trade an mp5 collapsable for a 93 mag.... lol

[El Laton Caliente]

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/559/BULLET_IMG_2930.JPG

Can you see it now?

That is the same code I had and it didn't work????

[Partisan1983]

ELC is right about it being post firing, but it is always important to check

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/516/HKboltgap2.jpg (http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1840&title=hk-boltgap&cat=516)


MIN- .25mm

MAX- .45mm

[El Laton Caliente]

That is looking like a total stove pipe on initial loading... The bolt is not correctly picking a round off the mag and locking it with the extractor. We are still with (1)weak/broken extractor or spring (2) incorrect mag angle; bent lips / wrong mag latch position / too weak or too strong mag spring...

Bolt gap nor buffers are causing the initial load problem... they generally are timing problems on reloading after firing manifesting in stress on buffer, butt, receiver, but can/will cause jams...

[silentkilla]

i see a gunsmith in my future

[Partisan1983]

Replacing an extractor and the the spring is not that hard/difficult.

[silentkilla]

as soon as my wife gets back with her camera i'll take a pic of the mag and the feed lips of the magazine

[El Laton Caliente]

i see a gunsmith in my future

You bought the rifle $1500 under going rate... it still isn't bad...

Robert has the extractor ($29) and spring ($7)... http://robertrtg.com/hk93.html

Numrich is out...

[silentkilla]

alright fella's i've got pics uploaded of the mag and the front of the lower in the gallery.

[imanaknut]

And if you follow my instructions you should be able to load the pictures into your post yourself. :bigsmilebounce::rotflmbao::naughty::anim_beer-1::dancingsmile::wootrock::hyper::thumbspbig::clap ::lol:

[El Laton Caliente]

Manual: http://www.scribd.com/doc/27004145/HK-93-Semi-Automatic-Rifle-Instruction-Manual

Extractor: http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-93-HK33-HK-53-223-German-Extractor-171p189.htm

Extractor Spring: http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-German-Rifle-Extractor-Spring-For-All-HK-s-p188.htm

[silentkilla]

stop making fun of me nut..........lol

[El Laton Caliente]

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/Heckler_Koch/HKPart_4_BoltheadsB.jpg

Can you take a pic from this view...

[silentkilla]

when i take out the firing pin and push the extractor up and down it is really hard to do. is this a problem?? wait a min on the picture my wife is cooking and she will get mad at me for bothering her so much about the damn phone...lol

[silentkilla]

nut, when i go to my pictures and right click on it it shows COPY and COPY TO FILE not copy to url. if i click either one it does nothing...

[El Laton Caliente]

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/559/kellys_new_butt_picturesw_003.JPG

Did you take the pin/spring out of the extractor?

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/catalog/hk53boltgroup_69_large.gif

[imanaknut]

nut, when i go to my pictures and right click on it it shows COPY and COPY TO FILE not copy to url. if i click either one it does nothing...

You get this on our website? If so something is wrong here.

[silentkilla]

no... do you think i need to disassemble it and clean the shit out of it and reoil and put it back together??

[Partisan1983]

It's worth a try.

[silentkilla]

ok fella's im fixing to post another picture in the gallery. this is what it is doing when i load 2 shells in the mag and inserting it cocking the bolt back and easing it forward. this is the result.

[El Laton Caliente]

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/559/picture_of_chamber_002.JPG

[silentkilla]

its like its missing where it catches to chamber the round.

[silentkilla]

a few guys on the AKFILES forum point out the mag not seating properly but i'm not understanding this because the dimples on the mag touch the magwell. it can't go any ferther.

[El Laton Caliente]

Can you pull the bolt and carrier out and photograph the front of it.

Were this a USA clone and not an original HK, I would suspect an out of spec mag well, but not on a HK factory receiver.

[silentkilla]

http://i40.tinypic.com/jrxl76.jpg

[silentkilla]

http://i40.tinypic.com/drbk0m.jpg here are a couple i already have i'll have to take one of the front tomarrow, everyone's asleep right now. finally found out how to do pics on tinypic.com

[El Laton Caliente]

The front is where the base of the cartridge sits.

[silentkilla]

ok some people are telling me that i'm double buffering my gun. because my buttstock is buffered and my BCG has the spring and plunger in it. is this true???

[silentkilla]

http://i41.tinypic.com/a161r7.jpg

[silentkilla]

http://i40.tinypic.com/ejd1xs.jpg front and back without firing pin in.

[silentkilla]

HOLY F'n S%$#!!!!!!!! i just thought of my problem........... i'm missing the whole G.D bolt head man!!!!!! O MY GOD....... wtf am i going to do now????

[silentkilla]

well i found one on hk parts.net for 225.00. to bad i don't have that to put in it right now! and even if i did i would probably have to buy exta rollers to make sure its gapped right....... WHAT A BUMMER MAN.

[imanaknut]

You know it is funny, but when I saw the picture of you holding the carrier, I said to myself that it didn't look right seeing the locking piece sticking out in front, with nothing being held on by it.

$225 for the parts! Unfortunately, one of the pleasures of owning an H&K is the crazy prices for replacement parts.

Congrats on finding out the problem!

[Partisan1983]

ok some people are telling me that i'm double buffering my gun. because my buttstock is buffered and my BCG has the spring and plunger in it. is this true???


Yes.

You need to remove the buffer from the back of your bolt carrier.

[Partisan1983]

I would reccomend you buy a HK33 parts kit from APEX.....it will save you a lot in the long run.

[silentkilla]

Excuse the language on my thread nut.... but it just blowed my mind that someone that supposed to be your friend would take advantage of you knowing that a 400 dollar part was missing off the gun he sold you.... shows the real side of people does it not??? lol

[silentkilla]

have you got 500 bucks i can borrow partisian??? it will only take a little bit to pay you back........ lmao

[El Laton Caliente]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!!! i just thought of my problem........... i'm missing the whole G.D bolt head man!!!!!! O MY GOD....... wtf am i going to do now????

That's why I kept asking for the picture...

[El Laton Caliente]

I would reccomend you buy a HK33 parts kit from APEX.....it will save you a lot in the long run.

Good advise and Jeff is great to deal with...

[El Laton Caliente]

Excuse the language on my thread nut.... but it just blowed my mind that someone that supposed to be your friend would take advantage of you knowing that a 400 dollar part was missing off the gun he sold you.... shows the real side of people does it not??? lol

Have you asked him about it? He may have pulled it for cleaning and has it some place...

[imanaknut]

Have you asked him about it? He may have pulled it for cleaning and has it some place...

Great advice before you go out and spend money.

Don't worry about your language, you wouldn't have believed mine if I bought that, opened it up and found the bolt assembly missing.

[silentkilla]

yes apex is a great company... thats where i got the two pins for my ak and the retaing plate that takes the place of the shepards hook. pretty fast delivery also. and about the dude i bought the gun from.. well he was selling it for a freind to begain with(now i know why he sold it) but they laid him off from work and i haven't seen him since tried to call him about it and no answer. maybe he will call me back on the matter but i dought it. anyway i don't have the money to sink into it right this moment because i purchased a safe about 3 weeks ago. to hold my collection. so i will have to either sell the mp5 stock to fund the project or just save up for it. at least i know what is wrong with it and it can be fixed pretty simple, hopefully that is.. maybe they will still have some in a couple of months. till then i'll just have to dream about shooting it.:pray:

[El Laton Caliente]

I have spare bolts for CETMEs, but not a HK93... Still, I'd pay $2500 for a 93 in excellent shape and feel I'd done OK...

[silentkilla]

so.... are you saying i still came out ok???

[imanaknut]

so.... are you saying i still came out ok???


True HK93 are selling for $4000 +/- a couple hundred, so if you paid $2000 and it is a true HK, even with the bolt missing you did GREAT!!!

[imanaknut]

For what it's worth, there is a bolt assembly on Gunbroker listed as new for $387 shipped.

[silentkilla]

well thank god its a true hk atleast....lol

[silentkilla]

For what it's worth, there is a bolt assembly on Gunbroker listed as new for $387 shipped.

sure would be nice if the lord blessed me with a 400 dollar bill tree in the back yard about now...... lol

[El Laton Caliente]

so.... are you saying i still came out ok???

Oh, hell yea... Now with a replacement bolt it will never be top collector, but still cheap for what you have...

[imanaknut]

sure would be nice if the lord blessed me with a 400 dollar bill tree in the back yard about now...... lol

:bigsmilebounce::jump::joker::laugh:

[silentkilla]

guess what guys!! i got on hkpro. forum and one of the guys are willing to trade me a bolthead for my mp5 stock!!! i checked his feed back score and all and it seems to be ok so i think i'm going to go for it! i've got the stock in the mail already headed to cali!!

[imanaknut]

Sounds great, I hope it works out.

[silentkilla]

i hope so to buddy