How to handle the "ammo issue"?

[Richard Simmons]

Was thinking about the usual, SHTF scenario and it seems like it would make the most sense if everyone in your party/group had the same caliber firearms. Going one step further it would seem even better it they all had the same type or model that way you have parts and magazines that can interchange. As far as caliber I figure 9x19 is probably close to the most prolific when you figure in private ownership and military usage but .40 S&W is also well represented and as far as Law Enforcement goes it might well be the most used. So taking those statements into effect, in order to be as well prepared as possible I was thinking you should be able to take advantage of either caliber should you come into a stash, government stockpile, police armory, etc.

Now does that mean my group needs Glock 17 and 22 pistols? I guess it could but I was thinking more along the lines of everyone have a G22/23 and a conversion barrel in 9x19. I've got a Lone Wolf 40-9 barrel for my G35 and it works great. I do have both .40 and 9x19 mags to go with either barrel but have heard that a lot of folks use their .40 mags with 9mm ammo with no problems. Some have reported random failures to feed but it seems more a factor of conversion barrel you are using more than anything else.

Cost wise it seems more practical than having a two pistols especially if your gun will run 100% with the same mags for both calibers. Does this seem logical/practical or am I over thinking it and just going with one caliber should be good enough? TIA

[Viking350]

I had a G22 with a Lone Wolf 40-9 barrel. I went that way because I felt that I got two guns for the price of one (almost). It functioned flawlessly. I had both 9mm and 40 mags, but very early on I used nothing but the 40 mags. I never had a problem with that set up. I traded the set up for a Kahr PM40.

From a logistics standpoint, I think your point is valid. I thought one of the reasons the military adopted the 9 mm was for ammo standardization with our NATO allies.

[Richard Simmons]

Good to know. I've not tried using my .40 mags with the 9-40 barrel but will check it out at the next range session. IIRC, back when I bought it my LW 9-40 cost me right at $100. If you can use the same mags then I can't think of a cheaper way to go to be able to shoot bot calibers.

In my area the majority of LEO I get the chance to talk with use .40 S&W firearms, mostly Glock. There is one local agency that traded in their G22/23 for G37/38 in .45 GAP. They were obviously the odd man out with that caliber. That was several years ago so they may have changed again. Pretty sure Loomis and Brinks security services use .40S&W. The Brinks guy that was by the office the other week had a .40 S&W chambered S&W M&P.

[Viking350]

Well, I'm a big fan of the 45 ACP. I prefer the 40 over the 9 myself for the same reasons. Assuming I can hit what I shoot at, I want to put the biggest hole I can into my target. Bullet expansion is problematic. That is why I bought the G22. I believe I paid right around $100 for the LW barrel as well. I bought that to take advantage of the lower cost 9 mm ammo.

In a scenario such as yours, I would definitely avoid guns in oddball calibers. Rifles would be 223/5.56 and 308/7.62. Handguns you have a bit more latitude. I agree with primarily 9mm and 40, but I wouldn't toss out a 45 ACP or 357/38. There is plenty of that ammo around as well.

[Partisan1983]

I hate to be the first one to say it...but Richard, IMHO you are overthinking it.....or at least being way too analytical.

Have a setup that's comfortable for you, that also works out for the area you live in

[NAPOTS]

If you have a decent supply of ammo and start burning that up, there should be plenty of arms and ammo to police up to restock your supply IMHO.

[Richard Simmons]

I hate to be the first one to say it...but Richard, IMHO you are overthinking it.....or at least being way too analytical.

Have a setup that's comfortable for you, that also works out for the area you live in

I thought that might be the case which is why I asked. Still seems like the purchase of a conversion barrel offers some extended benefits for not much money. Plus, it's kind of fun to talk about guns, ammo, etc. instead of the everyday hum drum.

[Richard Simmons]

If you have a decent supply of ammo and start burning that up, there should be plenty of arms and ammo to police up to restock your supply IMHO.

Agreed. Having 100,000rds of ammo is great, even for a large group but can you easily haul it around if needed? Not sure what a practical load out would be but at some point you'll pretty much have to restock on the fly. Having the capability to use a variety of ammo might make that a little easier. Obviously running a cross someone's stash of 45-70 ammo probably isn't going to help you much unless there are firearms to go with it.

That might be an interesting topic all it's own. Stock up on an odd caliber that meets your needs but pretty much no one elses. If your out foraging for example and someone raids your shelter and finds a stash of ammo that is of no use to 99% of people you might just find everything where you left it when you get back, ammo wise anyway.

[FunkyPertwee]

I use .45 acp and 7.62x39 when at home in the country. If I had to walk out of here in a SHTF situation it would be with 9mm and 5.56, for size and weight efficiency reasons.

I'm not a militia member, and my friends and family do not have standardized anything. I'm the only person in my group who has multiple weapons which share ammo and magazines, which is fine since it would be up to me to outfit my family.

Also I don't plan on going far. The coast of this state is my homeland. Regional disasters such as major hurricanes are the only things that would send me away from here (temporarily). Otherwise, securing this territory would be a higher priority to me than escaping.

[Partisan1983]

I thought that might be the case which is why I asked. Still seems like the purchase of a conversion barrel offers some extended benefits for not much money. Plus, it's kind of fun to talk about guns, ammo, etc. instead of the everyday hum drum.


Gotcha....

Please take no offense, but I thought this was gonna be another "I sold everything off, cuz Glocks and AR's are all that matters" tirade...

[Richard Simmons]

Gotcha....

Please take no offense, but I thought this was gonna be another "I sold everything off, cuz Glocks and AR's are all that matters" tirade...
Oh gosh, no offense taken what so ever!

[Partisan1983]

Oh gosh, no offense taken what so ever!

No, you are in the right.....it was me that was wrong

[Viking350]

Gotcha....

Please take no offense, but I thought this was gonna be another "I sold everything off, cuz Glocks and AR's are all that matters" tirade...

I have guns beyond AR's and Glocks. In a theoretical SHTF situation, my first plan would be to bug in. It would be difficult to transport and secure all the necessary supplies in a catastrophic situation. I have seen how the interstates get preceding and during a hurricane. If after a period of time it became necessary to bug out, weight and portability would be a consideration in whatever supplies you took. Commonality would certainly be a trait I would look for, since scavenging could significantly reduce the load necessary to survive.

[Schuetzenman]

100,000 rounds would be nice but .... keeping it all in one place isn't a great idea. This is why people cache ammo in remote predetermined locations as a means to be prepared for the theoretical Bug-out. A load out of .223, really 500 rounds is possible as that is only slightly over 16 lbs. even with 62 gr. M855 ball ammo. 9 mm even 115 gr. ammo is heavy by contrast to the 5.56 rifle round. It also lacks energy by contrast. IMHO handguns are simply for very close work and as a backup weapon should your rifle go down during the action.

I see no problem picking .40 S&W over 9 mm if that's what you and your group decide on. I'm on Viking's page, bug in and use bigger calibers as you don't have to haul the weapons and ammo. If I was to bug out I would probably go with the 5.56 / 9 mm combo. More shots per pound etc. Most people can't hit diddly squat past 200 yards let alone 500 to 600 yards. Forget 1000 yards, that would be an accident for 99% of gun owners if they tried to make a 1000 yard shot. Unless you've fired your weapon and sighted it in for 1000 yards the person is having a mental wet-dream about their prowess as a long range shooter. So my point is forget all the .300 magnums etc. unless you have ACTUALLY used it at distance and understand the drop and drift you will experience at those long ranges.

[Penguin]

Pretty sure Loomis and Brinks security services use .40S&W. The Brinks guy that was by the office the other week had a .40 S&W chambered S&W M&P.

I'm not sure what brinks is issuing these days. At loomis though you can get a gun in 40S&W but there are other choices as well.

As for your group having the same caliber of course it makes sense especially the bigger your group is. If it is a small group say 2-5 people it may make sense to go with what ever works best for you as you may get better results using your best equipment than having the advantage of being able to share the same bullets.

Going a step further it would make even more sense to be using the same guns and mags. Again the bigger the group the bigger the benefits.

There are several things to consider though. In many cases people don't agree on what is best, just think how many threads we have all read on what is the best gun. What works good for one person may not work well for another. Then there is budgets. People will have different budgets, while some people may be able to buy the best gun out there, there are others who may only be able to afford an old mosin nagant, which is better than nothing. The biggest thing to consider that I think is often neglected is most groups won't have anything like a regular resupply if things get nasty for any length of time. I don't know about you but I don't have a quartermaster system backing me up. If you aren't going to be getting regular resupply how much of what you have when the crap hits the fan considerbly more import than what it is. If everyone builds a big stock pile of what they each need so they can keep themselves in the field for an extended period of time that may very well be more important than making sure that it is all the same. I wouldn't rule out the possiblity of getting resupplied though. You never know what will happen so I try not to rule anything out unless I am unwilling to do it myself.

All that being said though I have often thought I should buy an AR. I don't like the rifle but, I often think I am the only man in America who doesn't own one. It is for that reason that when people often ask me what is the best gun to get in case the crap hits the fan I usually tell them to look at as many different models as they can and find out what works best for them but I recommend looking at an AR-15 of some sort first.

Lets face it if the crap hits the fan the AR is probably the rifle you will see the most. 5.56 is probably going to be the most common caliber and the ammo that is going to be highest in demand. Which also means it will probably be the first caliber to dissapear from store selves and other wise become scarce. So again stock up now while you can, though I think this goes for any thing food, bullets etc...

As for hand gun I don't know. Probably a glock especially if you get a couple of conversion kits so you can run the major calibers. Personally though I like the 1911.

[Viking350]

100,000 rounds would be nice but .... keeping it all in one place isn't a great idea. This is why people cache ammo in remote predetermined locations as a means to be prepared for the theoretical Bug-out. A load out of .223, really 500 rounds is possible as that is only slightly over 16 lbs. even with 62 gr. M855 ball ammo. 9 mm even 115 gr. ammo is heavy by contrast to the 5.56 rifle round. It also lacks energy by contrast. IMHO handguns are simply for very close work and as a backup weapon should your rifle go down during the action.

I see no problem picking .40 S&W over 9 mm if that's what you and your group decide on. I'm on Viking's page, bug in and use bigger calibers as you don't have to haul the weapons and ammo. If I was to bug out I would probably go with the 5.56 / 9 mm combo. More shots per pound etc. Most people can't hit diddly squat past 200 yards let alone 500 to 600 yards. Forget 1000 yards, that would be an accident for 99% of gun owners if they tried to make a 1000 yard shot. Unless you've fired your weapon and sighted it in for 1000 yards the person is having a mental wet-dream about their prowess as a long range shooter. So my point is forget all the .300 magnums etc. unless you have ACTUALLY used it at distance and understand the drop and drift you will experience at those long ranges.

I agree Schuetz. Most people that brag of long range shooting prowess have no idea what they are talking about. In a SHTF situation, I believe stealth and camouflage will be more desirable than confrontation. If you get into confrontation your resources will be consumed very rapidly. If I see rovers that are 100+ yards away, I would think concealment would be preferable to confrontation.

[Richard Simmons]

All that being said though I have often thought I should buy an AR. I don't like the rifle but, I often think I am the only man in America who doesn't own one.

You are not the only one without an AR. I should but just haven't yet. I've got 4 SKS and enough ammo to keep them running for awhile so I just haven't made the move. Should probably just sell the SKS and the ammo (worth a lot more than I originally paid for it) and use it to buy a midrange AR, mags, decent optics and a few cases of ammo.

[Penguin]

As well I have an SKS. I have often thought about getting rid of it. I don't have as much 7.62x39 as I used to. I need to remedy that problem but it is somewhere down on the list of things to get done since I am down to one AK and that probably would be fairly far down the list of guns I would be inclined to grab if the crap hit the fan.

[alismith]

As well I have an SKS. I have often thought about getting rid of it. I don't have as much 7.62x39 as I used to. I need to remedy that problem but it is somewhere down on the list of things to get done since I am down to one AK and that probably would be fairly far down the list of guns I would be inclined to grab if the crap hit the fan.

Keep it. In a SHTF situation, it will shoot the same ammo as an AK and doesn't need extra mags. It's built like a tank and will be one of the last guns to break down on you (if it ever does).

Even if a SHTF never happens, it's still a handy gun to have around.

For me, no matter what happens, I still have a hard time even thinking about selling any gun I own.

[recon]

You want things simple in the bad times! For me it will all be the same calibers and hopefully the same kind of weapons. That's just me.

[NAPOTS]

It's kind of a moot point. If you shoot someone they ought to be armed and an immediate threat to you. If they are, well, there is your resupply. What worries me more is that there will be people assuming that everyone is a threat and shooting people just going about that business. For that reason I think carrying a long gun may just paint a big target on you. Carrying concealed is probably going to be the way to go.

[ready]

Very few reasons to bug out in my opinion. If you do have to bug out, low profile would be my plan. Walk around with half the army surplus store hanging off your body and you're going to be a target. I actually think I would take my wife's nondescript vehicle over my 4x4. I have a concealable plate carrier that fits under a 2XL flannel no problem. If I had to be on foot, my goal would be to look like a vagrant, not a SEAL. Maybe have a rifle buried in some trash in a shopping cart I'm pushing down the street.

[Penguin]

If I had to be on foot, my goal would be to look like a vagrant, not a SEAL. Maybe have a rifle buried in some trash in a shopping cart I'm pushing down the street.

I wouldn't have ever thought of that but it sounds like a pretty good idea if things get that bad.

[NAPOTS]

I wouldn't have ever thought of that but it sounds like a pretty good idea if things get that bad.

I would think that if a bad guy saw you walking around looking like a mall ninja with a bunch of fancy gear and an expensive rifle he would just shoot you in the back and steal your shit.

[recon]

Since I'll be bugging in I don't plan on lugging all my gear anywhere. Makes it simple for me.

[JTHunter]

Due to space limitations, I try to limit my ammo to four main calibers. Those are .22LR/Mag (4 guns - for now), 7.62x39 (1 AK), .38/.357 (1 gun - for now), and .380 (1 gun).
That being said, I reload my .380 and my .243 (hardly ever shoot it) and I'm acquiring supplies for reloading the .38/.357. I also have an old .32 ACP that isn't very accurate and a .25 ACP that is. Both have very limited ammo for obvious reasons.
I also have 2 12 gauge shotties with plenty of ammo for both.

[arcangel]

308, 5.56, 9mm and 40S&W is all I've been buying, being on the same page as military and police just seems like a good idea. Lately I've been wanting a AK pistol for SHTF. Concealable and more punch than most pistols.

[Schuetzenman]

308, 5.56, 9mm and 40S&W is all I've been buying, being on the same page as military and police just seems like a good idea. Lately I've been wanting a AK pistol for SHTF. Concealable and more punch than most pistols.

AK Pistol has the power factor of the .44 magnum 240 gr. bullet. It also has even more muzzle blast and a fireball the size of a basket ball at the muzzle. Better put a good hider on it and wear earplugs.

[arcangel]

Thanks Schuetz, it would be best to just SBR one but I'm tired of waiting on Atf paperwork. But I do need to get back into some AK platforms while the ammo is still cheaper than everything else. I've only shot a .44 mag a few times a while back and it wasn't bad. Thanks again for the info.