i think we should bring back the draft

[l921428x]

I understand it will have no affect on me,
but it would sure make others that do not pay attention
raise their heads from the I phone.

[Dan Morris]

I've been for this sense day one!
Dan

[Krupski]

I understand it will have no affect on me,
but it would sure make others that do not pay attention
raise their heads from the I phone.

I have nothing but the utmost appreciation and respect for our military PERSONNEL, but the commanders, the "rules of engagement" and the "Commander in Chief" leave a lot to be desired.

I would be all for a draft.... it would do these apathetic IPhone wearing "millennial" kids (the 20-30 age group) a world of good.

But what then? Have my sons sent to a desert 1/2 way around the planet to a country that hates us, doesn't want us there with their hands tied behind their backs by "rules of engagement" and whining civilians back home who piss themselves every time there's an unfortunate "collateral damage" accident?

Sorry, but I don't want my kids shot, blown up, horribly mutilated, killed or beheaded on video just so that the President can draw another line in the sand with his golf club.

To defend OUR Country, no holds barred... sure... in fact I would enlist if they let me. But to play a politician's sick game while defense contractors get rich drinking the blood of OUR children? No fucking way!

[5.56NATO]

As long as Chelsea and the rest of the children of politicians are included I'm all for it.

[Krupski]

As long as Chelsea and the rest of the children of politicians are included I'm all for it.

Oh no... politicians won't send THEIR kids to serve. They want YOUR and MINE to die for THEM.

Military service is so beneath their ivory towers... hell their hands might get dirty! http://www.hobbytent.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[FunkyPertwee]

No fucking way am I sending anybody to the draft when literally every branch of Government is occupied by traitors.

[studmuffin]

I think there is something to be said for compulsury military training. Even it it is only 6 months to a year. Extra benefits should be given to those who volunteer for longer periods of service though.

[l921428x]

there will come a time when the patriots will not join. I understand, perfectly, you and Krup. but I am tired of people voting and having no idea what it really means.

[studmuffin]

It used to be called a citizens army, and all able bodied men and women were the militia. Today we have a professional army answerable to communists and washington, lead by armchair career political generals, who with few exceptions show remarkably few warrior characteristics. Its time that we all be reminded that we are in this together. Bring back the citizen army.

[ready]

There's a reason they ascend to those ranks and it's not job performance. Unless job performance includes being a "yes man" and a political hack.

[Gunner1558]

There's a reason they ascend to those ranks and it's not job performance. Unless job performance includes being a "yes man" and a political hack.

And the fact that they are capable of "Suck starting" a B-52 engine!

[Kadmos]

On a lot of topics I don't take a strong position, but on this one I will.

I read a lot of Heinlein as a kid, loved Starship Troopers and thought the idea of military service to gain citizenship sounded like a great noble idea.

But, fuck that.

If a country is responsibly using its military for defense, and taking good care of its vets, then it may be one thing.

But right now, hell fucking no.

When one of the main use of the common soldier is the tactic of "drive around until you get blown up", fuck that. I'm not raising kids to be "cannon fodder" because a president shows some grainy pictures of what looks like a shed and a few trucks and can't even convince the UN that there might be an issue.

I spent a lot of time, money, energy, and love to get my kid to be a decent useful person, I really don't need them shipped off to god knows where, on flimsy evidence and excuses, to (hopefully) come back, possibly with horrible wounds both physical and mental, just so some jackass can feel like other peoples kids have....I don't know..suffered?...enough for their personal idea of what someone else should do to "become a good American".

I love our military, the last thing they need is hundreds of thousands of unwilling soldiers who got forced into it as though it were some sort of prison sentence to be served in a Mad Max film.

BTW, billions of our tax dollars, some of mine included, went to building us drones, so we can put a damn good hurt on other people while our kids can sit safely in an office building calmly finding appropriate targets to strike.

Nope, sorry, you don't get to send my flesh and blood, by force, to satisfy your need for some sort of lame "team building" exercise so you can feel the next generation will be "properly patriotic" in your mind.

[Krupski]

No fucking way am I sending anybody to the draft when literally every branch of Government is occupied by traitors.

You said the same thing I said... except a lot better.

[studmuffin]

And the fact that they are capable of "Suck starting" a B-52 engine!

I thought it was more to do with sucking monkeys through 50 feet of garden hose.

[Krupski]

When one of the main use of the common soldier is the tactic of "drive around until you get blown up", fuck that. I'm not raising kids to be "cannon fodder" because a president shows some grainy pictures of what looks like a shed and a few trucks and can't even convince the UN that there might be an issue.

I'm not a soldier.... I have no real clue what I'm talking about, but I can make a few assumptions (someone tell me if I'm wrong):

(1) The main purpose of our military should be to protect and defend the United States, our citizens and our way of life.

(2) When it is necessary for our military to fight an enemy, they should fight to win, and win as quickly as possible.

#2, stated a different way, would be "if you're gonna do something, do it right or don't do it at all".

In WW-II, there was one rule of engagement: Kill the fucking enemy everywhere you find him and win.

Nowadays, all the enemy has to do is hide in a mosque and our entire military is paralyzed... unable to do anything... because of absurd "rules of engagement".

Why ANYONE volunteers to serve under such idiotic rules is beyond my understanding.

[FunkyPertwee]

It used to be called a citizens army, and all able bodied men and women were the militia. Today we have a professional army answerable to communists and washington, lead by armchair career political generals, who with few exceptions show remarkably few warrior characteristics. Its time that we all be reminded that we are in this together. Bring back the citizen army.

Our military was total shit when it was filled with draftees. Think of the rampant drug use during and following Vietnam.

I'm actually amazed at how little respect the notion of the volunteer army has here. I thought you people were tired of Government encroachment.

And by the way, it looks like Charie Rangel beat you guys to the punch. Does it feel good to be on his side?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft/

[FunkyPertwee]

Also consider the fact that the Feds would love nothing more than to draft I giant illegal immigrant army who have no American values whatsoever, and don't mind shooting white Americans in order to take their guns.

Look at how the yanks used immigrant draftees to fight their war for them in the south during the civil war. They'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[mrkalashnikov]

I find it highly ironic that somebody here who is way past service age decides it's "time to bring back the draft". :10_3_10:

Maybe if this thread was started by somebody of draft/service age it might have my respect.

[sevlex]

Instead of re-instituting the draft I think we should raise the voting age to 25 - unless you serve in the military.

Service Guarantees Citizenship.

[Partisan1983]

There is no need for a draft, they are counter-productive in the long run.


I do believe that service in the National Guard should be mandatory for all men and women....but then again I believe that the NG should be used for domestic purposes only.

[jojo]

I think there is something to be said for compulsury military training. Even it it is only 6 months to a year. Extra benefits should be given to those who volunteer for longer periods of service though.

My sentiments exactly................ I also feel that military service should be a prerequisite to working for the VA.

On another note. How many of you think that the typical hoodrat is registered with the Selective Service?

[jet3534]

No one should ever be drafted to fight in no-win undeclared wars or serve under a liberal and cowardly Commander in Chief. The military leaders that create strategies of COIN, winning hearts and minds, nation building, restrictive ROE, and so forth are really about sucking up to politicians and getting soldiers killed for their career advancement. Our Generals leave the military for high paying think tank and corporate board jobs while our wounded soldiers get substandard treatment from the VA.

It should be noted that other than WWII (and maybe Korea) the draft has never been applied in a fair manner and opposition to a national draft dates back to the American revolution with the Continental Congress refusing to implement Washington's request for national conscription.

[l921428x]

I find it highly ironic that somebody here who is way past service age decides it's "time to bring back the draft". :10_3_10:

Maybe if this thread was started by somebody of draft/service age it might have my respect.

really? why? did you loose thought when you passed 21 years in age? I didn't and what I am saying is, I think that more people would be inclined to pay attention to
what is really going on if their kids were on the line. another reason not to have children. I am saying this out of respect for our young men and women who volunteer. I am in no way trying to garner
your respect nor do I care if I have it. life is real and the .gov is using your kids for cannon fodder, why?
they go because they want to serve. if it was different...........

[l921428x]

Our military was total shit when it was filled with draftees. Think of the rampant drug use during and following Vietnam.

I'm actually amazed at how little respect the notion of the volunteer army has here. I thought you people were tired of Government encroachment.

And by the way, it looks like Charie Rangel beat you guys to the punch. Does it feel good to be on his side?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft/

2003 wow you think I have only been thinking since 2003?
try this dick......http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2757360/US-send-3-000-troops-Ebola-danger-zone-Obama-administration-shuffles-military-s-mission-Africa.html
total shit with the draftees, you are so fuking wrong in many ways

[mrkalashnikov]

really? why? did you loose thought when you passed 21 years in age? I didn't and what I am saying is, I think that more people would be inclined to pay attention to
what is really going on if their kids were on the line. another reason not to have children. I am saying this out of respect for our young men and women who volunteer. I am in no way trying to garner
your respect nor do I care if I have it. life is real and the .gov is using your kids for cannon fodder, why?
they go because they want to serve. if it was different...........

Did I "loose" thought after 21? No, you've got me beat there by a mile.

"Another reason not to have children." Great outlook, especially if you care about the continuation of the human race; I have two, including a 22-yr old son. Guess I've got more skin in the game than you, eh?

"I am in no way trying to garner your respect..." Yes, that's something we can both agree on.

"Life is real...". Yes, it most certainly is.

[5.56NATO]

Instead of re-instituting the draft I think we should raise the voting age to 25 - unless you serve in the military.

Service Guarantees Citizenship.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtTgHuGgW-c

[rktman]

Re: Service Guarantees Citizenship,

We do need a better form of a maturity/experience requirement before allowing everyone an equal vote on what happens in this country. This is a Republic, not a Democracy. Our pres was elected twice by many who have never earned a paycheck or served others in some capacity (no matter their age). They should not be able to vote themselves more monies from the public tax coffers.
Military experience or a college degree could help ensure some degree of maturity. A citizenship test could also be a requirement to vote.
Its not that simple and every solution could get perverted into something contrary to our Founders intent, but I do hope we get this issue resolved soon or we will share the same fate as the UK.

[Krupski]

Our military was total shit when it was filled with draftees. Think of the rampant drug use during and following Vietnam.

I'm actually amazed at how little respect the notion of the volunteer army has here. I thought you people were tired of Government encroachment.

And by the way, it looks like Charie Rangel beat you guys to the punch. Does it feel good to be on his side?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft/

You fail to see the difference between the average soldier and the commanders at the top who make the decisions.

Our "boots on the ground" soldiers are the best on the planet. They are dedicated, professional and selfless. THEY deserve our greatest respect.

On the other hand, the top officers, the government and 0bama force them to be virtually ineffective.

When someone complains about ridiculous policies or "rules of engagement", they are not dissing the SOLDIERS, they are dissing the soldier's LEADERSHIP that only serves to prolong war, get Americans wounded and killed and make the USA the laughing stock of the world.

It's not a soldier's fault. If he's forced to obey idiotic rules, what can he do? NOBODY is blaming the boots-on-the-ground guys.

[sevlex]

We used to have a voting age of 21. That's the way it was from the beginning because the founders recognized that the young lack the maturity to make vital decisions (eg. the "Up-Twinkles" Occupy crowd). The age was lowered to 18 during the Vietnam era because men who were being drafted & sent to war objected to having no say in the process. We also lowered the drinking age for the same reason.

Now that we have no draft we need to raise the voting age. After all, we have already raised the drinking age.

:coffee:

[studmuffin]

Things that Nixon did that I do not like:
Lowering the voting age to 18.
creation of the EPA
Taking our economy off the gold standard
Elimination of the draft.

Today Nixon would be considered a Rino! Go figure.

[Krupski]

Things that Nixon did that I do not like:
Lowering the voting age to 18.
creation of the EPA
Taking our economy off the gold standard
Elimination of the draft.

Today Nixon would be considered a Rino! Go figure.

Not to mention Nixon also created the DEA and the failed "war on drugs" that's ruined so many lives.

[sevlex]

I thought the war on drugs was Nancy Reagan's crusade.

[Gunreference1]

The last serious attempt of reinstating the draft that I'm aware of was by Charles Rangel back in 2010 with HR 5741 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.5741:).

Steve

[mrkalashnikov]

Things that Nixon did that I do not like:

Taking our economy off the gold standard.


Pretty sure FDR was in office when that happened.

[jet3534]

Re: Service Guarantees Citizenship,

We do need a better form of a maturity/experience requirement before allowing everyone an equal vote on what happens in this country. This is a Republic, not a Democracy. Our pres was elected twice by many who have never earned a paycheck or served others in some capacity (no matter their age). They should not be able to vote themselves more monies from the public tax coffers.
Military experience or a college degree could help ensure some degree of maturity. A citizenship test could also be a requirement to vote.
Its not that simple and every solution could get perverted into something contrary to our Founders intent, but I do hope we get this issue resolved soon or we will share the same fate as the UK.

If one is a citizen they should be allowed to vote - period. Adding requirements for voting is no different than adding requirements to exercise 2nd amendment rights. Who do you propose to develop and vet a citizenship test? Regardless of the results, our Constitution has to be the basis for running this country.

[l921428x]

Mrk I made an adult decision at age 17 not to have children. some of the others in this country should think about it and because I made this choice does not give you the right
to tell me I have nothing in the Game. I choose and chose my game and I am in it for your children. if you know me, you know that I am not a vet and because of this I do not involve myself in those matters. I am just tired of seeing our best die or get maimed.

this is the only game I am thinking of......

[Ruskiegunlover]

I disagree. Our founders put heavy restrictions on voting, especially early on. They wanted only people with SKIN IN THE GAME voting. Not uneduacted, dumbass people who would vote to bring the king back.No restrictions? Then do you believe a dim should be allowed to bring their newborn infant in to vote? No. That means RESTRICTIONS, REQUIREMENTS. Like NOT being on a government program like welfare or food stamps. NOT being a felon. BEING a citizen. Having a high school eduaction. Let me tell you, as a teacher, I see LOTS of these poor (bullshit), beaten down (usually bullshit), repressed (90% of the time bullshit) kids who drop out and do NOTHING with their lives and expect help. And, they get to vote. Kids who have shit on me, taken advantage of me, played the victim, and then dropped out......Only to pull the crybaby shit later on to get welfare. THEY SHOULD NOT BE VOTING. ALL THEY THINK IS THAT THEY, AS VICTIMS, DESERVE MORE FROM US.

Jesus help us. I really wish tax payers would see more of what I see in an inner city school.

[l921428x]

Ok ruskie. what does the education system have to do with the draft? I understand your sentiments. when 90% can name the song from frozen and cannot name their senators, I can't add to that.

[Krupski]

I thought the war on drugs was Nancy Reagan's crusade.

Nancy Reagan did the "Just Say No" campaign and the "Zero Tolerance" crap. Nixon created the DEA.

From Wiki:


The Drug Enforcement Administration was established on July 1, 1973, by Reorganization Plan No. 2 of 1973, signed by President Richard Nixon on July 28.[2] It proposed the creation of a single federal agency to enforce the federal drug laws as well as consolidate and coordinate the government's drug control activities.

[Krupski]

Pretty sure FDR was in office when that happened.

You're right. Once again, from Wiki:


Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States". The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

[l921428x]

Do not forget that Nixon also opened china for business. LBJ gave us the war on poverty. 22 trillion spent since the middle 60's. 6% poverty at the time, 43% now. was FDR a democrat?

[Ruskiegunlover]

I was simply adding to the discussion. I actually agree with you. I feel we would be stronger as a country if we drafted and trained more young men especially. Allow the drill sgt's to beat the shit out of them again, and maybe we can drill some respect and maturity into SOME of them. I teach a lot of truly wonderful kids of all races, but there is a percent that are excuse factories that WANT to be victims.

[l921428x]

hey I know what you are saying. there seems to be no discipline in younger society today.
I am, in no means talking down or up to any of you. I am worried that if we burn the ones up that care and join.
what's left?

I do not want your most precious to have to do this.
but if some of these groups of people want some of what yours are giving,
at least they ought to get a lottery ticket.

[Hatedbysheeple]

The military is not a day care service or finishing school, if you want that then just open some re-education camps, it's what you are actually asking for anyway. The military has one true purpose and that is to skull fuck our nations enemies. Sure we can do a lot of other stuff, but all that other stuff is because we are so good at number one. Disaster relief a byproduct of our amazing logistics for war. Search and rescue a byproduct of war, emergency medical relief also from war. None of those would be possible with out highly motivated people.

Personally I would not want to serve with someone that did not want to be there, their mind isn't in it and I wouldn't trust them to have my back. A small motivated professional force with modern tech will destroy a larger less trained, less motivated force. Look at the PMCs in Africa in the 80's they went in clean out the rebels and in were so fast and so efficient that they scared the shit out of the UN.

The CCCs would be much better suited for the purpose a lot of you state, it would cost the same, and work would actually be getting done.

If you see the draft as a check on politicians then I suggest you look at history and how many of those children ever served.

[l921428x]

fair enough, well said. now there are 535 members of the congress and senate. even if they have 3 children each, it still does not add up to the number voters that may be concerned..
agreed a small dedicated force can burn it up and in some places they have but there are only so many men that can do this. how do you handle 50,000. in korea the Chinese gave the n. Koreans
3 days of food and ammo and said go south.