Yep, Obamacare Costs a Fortune

[LAGC]

Whenever I write about Obamacare's expansion of health insurance, most of the e-mails I get from readers include some version of: Sure, the premiums may be low, but who can afford to see a doctor?

A survey released today by the Kaiser Family Foundation, tracking 2015 deductibles and copayments across most exchange plans, says those complaints are at least half right. For all but the most generous Obamacare plans, out-of-pocket payments are usually higher than for employer-based insurance -- in some cases, drastically so.

Some background: The metal levels in the charts below refer to how consumers are charged. For a bronze plan, the insurer is meant to cover 60 percent of the cost of essential health care, on average, leaving beneficiaries to cover the rest. For silver plans, it's 70 percent; for gold, 80 percent; and for platinum plans, 90 percent. As a result, premiums are generally lowest for bronze plans and highest for platinum.

So it's not surprising that out-of-pocket payments, also called cost-sharing charges, are higher for lower-cost plans. It is surprising just how high those payments are, even for middle-tier exchange plans, and also how high they are compared with the average plans that workers get through their companies.

Start with annual deductibles. For bronze plans in 2015, they're enormous -- $5,372, or about five times what the average person with employer-based individual coverage faced last year. More important, and potentially worrisome for the law's defenders: Average deductibles for silver plans (the most popular type of exchange coverage) are about three times as high as on employer plans. Even gold plans have slightly higher average deductibles.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-11/yep-obamacare-costs-a-fortune?cmpid=yhoo

This is so fucking true. The bottom-line is that most all of the plans, except for the most expensive Platinum plans are complete shit compared to most employer-based plans. I mean, who gives a shit if your premium only costs $20/month when you're on the hook for over $5K if you ever have the misfortune of being hospitalized for any length of time? That's hardly better than the same "junk insurance" plans that Obamacare was supposed to get rid of -- that whole "you can keep your doctor" B.S. The only ones who can afford that likely already have decent coverage through their employers, making the whole issue moot.

This Romneycare B.S. is what happens when you allow Republican think-tanks to write the bill then commandeer it as if it's some great "progressive" victory. I am becoming firmly convinced that this crap was never meant to lower costs, only to fleece the poor and funnel that money to further enrich the private insurance companies.

[Kadmos]

I mean, who gives a shit if your premium only costs $20/month when you're on the hook for over $5K if you ever have the misfortune of being hospitalized for any length of time?

I hate to tell you this but 5K is nothing. An appendectomy would likely cost you 10-20K. And that would be considered "fair pricing", without insurance expect a bill of 35-50K for the procedure.

That $20 a month gets you access to better care.

Lets say you go to the ER with stomach pains, and no insurance. The doctor palpitates your lower right side causing a "oof" sound to elicit from your mouth. He has to determine whether he just knocked the wind out of you or if it was a real pain response. BTW, you're already up to about $600. Lab tests add another say $300. All of this being inconclusive he sends you up for an MRI. Your bill is now 5K before there is even a diagnosis.

Sadly the tests come back inconclusive, he gives you the news, you explain your situation of no insurance, he strongly recommends an exploratory laparoscopic procedure, but explains that it might also be fairly common stomach pains, bad oysters or some such and may pass in a few days.

Your current status is stable, the common battery of tests has cleared the hospital of liability for appendicitis. Now it's up to you, do you make the additional 5K commitment just for the exploratory? At this point the hospital will want a contract for a payment plan on that, might do a credit check, or even demand that you at least pay off what you owe so far.

So what do you do?

Now lets say you paid that $20 a month, you are in the hospital, in pain, the doctor is strongly suggesting a procedure, and the bill you have accrued so far already is within a couple of hundred dollars of your maximum liability.

Ok the idea of surgery is scary, but money is no longer the issue.

But lets say you decide to go home, over the next few hours the pain increases a bit, the thought crosses your mind of going back to the hospital.

If you have no insurance you will almost certainly wait longer, hoping to ride it out and hopefully feel better in the morning.

With insurance you realize that you already will be paying out the most you will possibly pay out for the year, it hits you that the doctor really did strongly suggest surgery and if this thing ruptures you are going to be in a world of shit.

That's who gives a shit if they paid that $20 a month.

One decision is much more likely to end with a ruptured appendix, massive infection at the least, and not beyond reason dead by morning.

Let me tell you, it happens way more often than you might think.

[Oswald Bastable]

Where's the love?

I thought this was the best thing since sliced bread?

How the worm has turned, when the veil finally drops...

[LAGC]

I hate to tell you this but 5K is nothing. An appendectomy would likely cost you 10-20K. And that would be considered "fair pricing", without insurance expect a bill of 35-50K for the procedure.

That $20 a month gets you access to better care.

Lets say you go to the ER with stomach pains, and no insurance. The doctor palpitates your lower right side causing a "oof" sound to elicit from your mouth. He has to determine whether he just knocked the wind out of you or if it was a real pain response. BTW, you're already up to about $600. Lab tests add another say $300. All of this being inconclusive he sends you up for an MRI. Your bill is now 5K before there is even a diagnosis.

I guess I just don't understand why people would even buy into those crappy plans to begin with. I mean, at least with most Platinum plans you have very low (if not $0) deductibles, meaning you only have to pay very small co-pays for regular and specialist visits for minor injuries/illnesses, for most serious ailments insurance picks up 90% of the tab, and even then your max yearly out-of-pocket (worst-case-scenario) can be as low as $1000 in many cases. THAT'S insurance.

It just seems like when your target population are mostly uninsured working-class poor people (those making less than $10/hour whose employers don't offer coverage) it seems ridiculous to expect them to be able to afford $5K+ medical bills. I just see lots of people still defaulting on their medical debts and having to declare bankruptcy. Which is what insurance is SUPPOSED to prevent.

[Oswald Bastable]

But this law was to correct the problem, to offer insurance to all, subsidized by the many!

Isn't that what all marxist's want?

It is working exactly as intended by the marxist masters who created it. It was signed into law by the majority marxists of the time. The problematic provisions that might have caused problems were delayed via marxist fiat, until elections were over, until such flaws could be delayed into the future, as all marxist dogma is treated.

Many marxist supporters were paid off with multiple millions of bourgeoisie dollars to bring the system to fruition, operating in true marxist fashion upon launch (failure to launch).

Be of good cheer! All is well and going explicitly according to marxist plan.

[LAGC]

No, a "Marxist" plan would be a true single-payer system, without the all the loopholes and need for supplemental coverage that so many on Medicare still need to avoid financial catastrophe. But even talk to most seniors and they'd be up in arms if you threatened to take away their Medicare.

Like so many signs at any Tea Party rally: "Keep your government mitts off my Medicare!" :rolleyes:

What we got was the conservative Heritage Foundation's alternative corporate plan from way back in the 1990's when Hillarycare was a very real threat.

Well, the 90's are calling, and they want Mitt Romney's clusterfuck back. Simply expanding Medicare to cover all would be a big improvement over this noise.

[Oswald Bastable]

No, a "Marxist" plan would be a true single-payer system, without the all the loopholes and need for supplemental coverage that so many on Medicare still need to avoid financial catastrophe. But even talk to most seniors and they'd be up in arms if you threatened to take away their Medicare.

Like so many signs at any Tea Party rally: "Keep your government mitts off my Medicare!" :rolleyes:

What we got was the conservative Heritage Foundation's alternative corporate plan from way back in the 1990's when Hillarycare was a very real threat.

Well, the 90's are calling, and they want Mitt Romney's clusterfuck back. Simply expanding Medicare to cover all would be a big improvement over this noise.

Written and passed by marxist (have to pass it to find out what's in it) Pigloosie and a marxist Dem majority house and senate, without a single Rep vote? Signed into law by the islamo/marxist 0bama?

And you want us to believe your unicorn farm stories of how this was a right wing plot?

Your globull warmins delusions have obviously addled your brain even further than previously thought.

Rejoice! This is the pinnacle of the entire capitalism to marxist transformation you've so long pointed to and endorsed. Be of good cheer! This is what you and your comrades have worked so hard for!

[ltorlo64]

I guess I just don't understand why people would even buy into those crappy plans to begin with.

Because the Democrats, over the objections of the majority of the voters, deceitfully passed a law the requires it. Remember, if you don't buy a plan then you get taxed (penalized) substantially for it. Great law. Maybe this is a big reason why Democrats and other liberals lost so many seats in the last couple of elections.

[Oswald Bastable]

Because the Democrats, over the objections of the majority of the voters, deceitfully passed a law the requires it. Remember, if you don't buy a plan then you get taxed (penalized) substantially for it. Great law. Maybe this is a big reason why Democrats and other liberals lost so many seats in the last couple of elections.

Buyer's remorse among leftists is always a new attempt to point fingers. Recall his joyousness at his heavily subsidized plan, paid for by the likes of you and me, when he first signed up?

And now, suddenly, it's all somehow a sham to be laid at the feet of the right...it's truly sad.

[N/A]

Yep, but like a good commie, little Marxist will continue to be a schill for his marxist masters. What other use is there for useful idiots?

[alismith]

When liberal programs fail, the libs ALWAYS blame the conservatives.

This is one of those, "We told you so," examples.

We told you so!

But, you were too busy celebrating your "victory" to listen, or understand.

Enjoy your "victory." :thumbsup:

[l921428x]

lagc you are so funny. I see you are still just figuring out what is going on.
well at least you are making an effort. :hoo-yeah:
now that health care costs have gone down by 2500.00 on
avg across the U.S., now we get to remember that we get to keep our doctor.

[skorpion]

Yep, Obamacare costs a fortune
Well heck, you're just now realizing this? Most of us on this board knew this before Bummercare even became law. :conf44:

We must be psychics...

[ltorlo64]

Well heck, you're just now realizing this? Most of us on this board knew this before Bummercare even became law. :conf44:

We must be psychics...

Or we actually read and comprehended the information that was available. It is only those who believed the President and the Democrats without question that are surprised, again.

[308]

I guess I just don't understand.....

You will soon :)

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/500/obama-care.jpg

[imanaknut]

So what is being found out is that we are not seeing a $2500 savings and if we like our doctor we can keep our doctor.

Unfortunately I am seeing more like a negative $2500 savings and I would prefer my doctor stay at his home, or office, or the hospital.

[ltorlo64]

Unfortunately I am seeing more like a negative $2500 savings and I would prefer my doctor stay at his home, or office, or the hospital.

That is the what the statistics are showing as well. Instead of a $2500 savings the average family of four is paying $2500 more for their insurance. Apparently you are just average.

[5.56NATO]

Every 0bama supporter or other kind of marxist should see their healthcare costs triple or more to spread the wealth from the haves to the have nots. You know, social justice, income equality. It's only fair that they put their money where their mouths are. And if any complain..... well, they must be hypocrits.

[alismith]

Every 0bama supporter or other kind of marxist should see their healthcare costs triple or more to spread the wealth from the haves to the have nots. You know, social justice, income equality. It's only fair that they put their money where their mouths are. And if any complain..... well, they must be hypocrits.

But, but, I remember LAGC being so happy that Obama cared enough about the little guy to pass a health care law that would, finally, be affordable for all to be covered. I believe he almost wet his pants when he was finally able to sign up after a few glitches. He was soooo happy.

An old saying comes to mind, "be careful what you wish for...you just might get it."

Enjoy the fruits of your labors, LAGC.

[jet3534]

Get a job you commie rat.

[skorpion]

http://rlv.zcache.com/work_harder_sick_people_depend_on_your_taxes_bumpe r_sticker-rbe2d20620f1848c28a90a29337a97e2b_v9wht_8byvr_512. jpg

[Kadmos]

I guess I just don't understand why people would even buy into those crappy plans to begin with. I mean, at least with most Platinum plans you have very low (if not $0) deductibles, meaning you only have to pay very small co-pays for regular and specialist visits for minor injuries/illnesses, for most serious ailments insurance picks up 90% of the tab, and even then your max yearly out-of-pocket (worst-case-scenario) can be as low as $1000 in many cases. THAT'S insurance.

All insurance is a bet.

Assuming you're fairly healthy, you go to the doctor once a year for preventative care. My understanding is all the plans will cover that single visit. Even if they don't it's likely only about $100-200. Work with your doc on that. I pay $65 cash for the visit, and around another $30 for lab tests.

So at that $20 per month plus a doctors visit I would be around $335 per year on average, assuming insurance covered none of it.

On your better plans you can pay out easily $335 per month or $4,020 per year.

Now look at it over 5 years

Cheap = $1,200

Better = $20,100

Then tragedy hits, and the appendix needs removing

Cheap = $1,200 for the five years covered plus 5K deductible = $6,200

Better = $20,100 for five years plus 1K deductible = $21,100

A difference of $14,900

Add a medical savings account (MSA), and you can put cash into an interest earning account with no taxes so long as you use it to pay deductibles. Meaning if you put $5k into the account it would earn interest, you would be fully covered, and you would only need to add to the account if you had money deducted from it.

So in a sense a self employed person can throw away $20,100 over five years of insurance they never used, or spend $1,200 plus stick $5k into a tax free account and save $13,900 for the exact same coverage. All while still having $5k (and gaining interest) in the bank.

That's why people go for the "cheap" insurance



It just seems like when your target population are mostly uninsured working-class poor people (those making less than $10/hour whose employers don't offer coverage) it seems ridiculous to expect them to be able to afford $5K+ medical bills. I just see lots of people still defaulting on their medical debts and having to declare bankruptcy. Which is what insurance is SUPPOSED to prevent.

Is it more ridiculous then them paying $4k a year for insurance they aren't using?

Yes, I get that not everyone will be able to save anything in an MSA, much less get to that 5K before tragedy strikes. But under the new system the most they will be on the hook for is 5k, not the 40-50K a really bad situation often gets to.

Moreover it only puts the hospital on the hook for 5K if the person defaults, or looked at another way it only puts the taxpayer on the hook for that 5K, rather than the 50K+.


Yes the prices went up drastically, this was by law the last year they could do an increase of over a certain percent...so yeah, most of the insurance companies took the opportunity to do so.

So yes it's a bit of a harder hit this year, but lets not forget that they were happily raising rates other previous years as well, eventually it would have passed this level either way. But from now on at least that is slowed to some degree.

[5.56NATO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=s0EDfGj7lOI

[raxar]

The song that goes through my head every time LAQC posts a thread (skip to 1:50 for the lyrics to start)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2iNLt_hUZg

[Krupski]

This is so fucking true.

Save yourself future grief and believe what we tell you at the outset... not months after when you finally find out that we're right.

[l921428x]

I do remember him giggling like, well lets not go there.
I hope everyone of the sobs that helped this cf get moving and all that wanted
this system cry themselves to sleep at night wondering how they let the
chi town con man get the best of them.

[Oswald Bastable]

I do remember him giggling like, well lets not go there.

A school girl?

Yeah, I went there...

[Oswald Bastable]

The future of American healthcare, under lefty's, oh so considered philosophy:


Currently, Venezuela is suffering from a drug shortage so dire that the shelves in the pharmacies and the hospitals are completely bare.

So perhaps Americans, who get antsy if they have to wait more than 10 minutes for Amoxicillin for a kid’s earache, should consider an ObamaCare scared-straight fieldtrip to a Caracas pharmacy, where there is no Vitamin C, no folic acid, and no acetaminophen. Meanwhile, thanks to superior government-provided public health services, 35,000 Venezuelans infected with mosquito-transmitted viruses like Chikungunya have no Tylenol to treat severe joint pain.

So much for government-enforced human rights.

According to an article by Sergio Held titled "Tweeting for Treatment in Venezuela", the country is also “facing a critical shortage of basic medical supplies.” Adding insult to injury, pharmacists must keep their stores open eight hours a day even though the shelves are bare, because if they close the benevolent human rights-oriented Venezuelan government suspends their license.

Not only are very sick people being denied essential medicines to survive, the Venezuelan healthcare infrastructure is collapsing because of money the government owes drug companies and other healthcare providers. While Hugo the Late considered privatization of healthcare to be denying basic human rights, 15% of Venezuela’s cancer patients are dying for lack of radiotherapy treatment and breast cancer victims are waiting to have tumors removed at a large Venezuelan medical facility, which on a smaller scale can certainly be likened to America’s VA waiting list where U.S. veterans died from lack of treatment.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/02/venezuelas_governmentrun_healthcare_morgue.html

Socialism in action, apart from the American oligarchs...be of good cheer Americans! This too, shall be your reward for worshiping at the altar of Marx!

[samiam]

So let us worship at the altar of capitalism?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bScYHE7Wwtg

[308]

So let us worship at the altar of capitalism?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bScYHE7Wwtg

Or just quit worshiping at the alter of alcohol, tobacco and fast food rather than blame someone else for our own problems.

[Krupski]

So let us worship at the altar of capitalism?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bScYHE7Wwtg

I'd hit it!

[FunkyPertwee]

I'd hit it!

Me too, but I'd be happier if she wore a pink ball gag.

[raxar]

So let us worship at the altar of capitalism?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bScYHE7Wwtg

So at what exact point did you start falling in love with Putin?

[Phil125]

The whole plan all along was to pass a bill so freakin terrible that you had to fix it. And they can't repeal it because whoever does looks like a soulless bastard. So they fix it the only way they can. Single payer government run health insurance for all. Which Europe is now finding out doesn't work.

[ltorlo64]

The whole plan all along was to pass a bill so freakin terrible that you had to fix it. And they can't repeal it because whoever does looks like a soulless bastard. So they fix it the only way they can. Single payer government run health insurance for all. Which Europe is now finding out doesn't work.

This is the liberal play book. Give something to people that they did not work for, and then whoever tries to right the wrong is portrayed as unfeeling and heartless as the people who have now come to depend on these things will have to do without, or more correctly, would have to earn it themselves. The liberals portray this as unjustly taking what belongs to the people, even though they are not earning it.

[alismith]

More problems with ObamaCare just surfaced...

http://news.yahoo.com/govt-sent-800-000-healthcare-gov-customers-wrong-150134035--politics.html

[sevlex]

And who is it who believes the feds can do things better than the private sector?


:jerk-n-off:

[CigarGuy]

More problems with ObamaCare just surfaced...

http://news.yahoo.com/govt-sent-800-000-healthcare-gov-customers-wrong-150134035--politics.html

So, I'm a tax preparer. What am I suppose to do with the ones sitting here waiting for preparation and having ObamaCare? Wait?
Prepare and hope for best? Client is gonna pay for the amended, if I have to do one, right?

[ltorlo64]

So, I'm a tax preparer. What am I suppose to do with the ones sitting here waiting for preparation and having ObamaCare? Wait?
Prepare and hope for best? Client is gonna pay for the amended, if I have to do one, right?

That is funny, and sad, all at the same time. If people paid a tax preparer to do their taxes and now they have to refile because of a government error, will the government pay to have the amendment done or is the tax payer expected to pick up the tab for the governments mistake? I bet the answer is tax payer.

[imanaknut]

That is funny, and sad, all at the same time. If people paid a tax preparer to do their taxes and now they have to refile because of a government error, will the government pay to have the amendment done or is the tax payer expected to pick up the tab for the governments mistake? I bet the answer is tax payer.

The tax payer pays for everything the government does.

[El Laton Caliente]

The tax payer pays for everything the government does.

The one true statement....