Dissension in the ranks

[5.56NATO]

Top US General Says He Would Disobey Trump – Refuse to Launch ‘Illegal’ Nuclear Strike
The top US nuclear commander told a conference in Canada he would push back against an “illegal” order from President Trump to launch nuclear weapons.
It’s not clear what he meant by an “illegal” order from the Commander in Chief.
Air Force Gen. John Hyten, commander of the U.S. Strategic Command (STRATCOM), told a Halifax audience that he has given it a lot of thought since President Trump was elected.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/top-us-general-says-disobey-trump-refuse-launch-illegal-nuclear-strike/

These 2 Factors Distinguish Military Members Who Love Trump From The Ones Who Don’t
It’s hard to overstate the significance of the paygrade divide. Nearly half (48%) of all enlisted service members approved of Trump, while fewer than a third (30%) of all officers shared that view. And a majority of officers (53%) viewed Trump unfavorably, suggesting his command style poses a bit of a headache for service members with greater responsibilities, education and status.
http://taskandpurpose.com/trump-military-poll-officer-enlisted-marines/

Bonus;

Dark Cloud: Inside The Pentagon's Leaked Internet Surveillance Archive
The UpGuard Cyber Risk Team can now disclose that three publicly downloadable cloud-based storage servers exposed a massive amount of data collected in apparent Department of Defense intelligence-gathering operations. The repositories appear to contain billions of public internet posts and news commentary scraped from the writings of many individuals from a broad array of countries, including the United States, by CENTCOM and PACOM, two Pentagon unified combatant commands charged with US military operations across the Middle East, Asia, and the South Pacific.
https://www.upguard.com/breaches/cloud-leak-centcom





This dod fiasco is interesting in more ways than one. Bezos sells server storage to dod and myriad other usgov entities, meaning soros/mossad likely has direct access to all of it. Also, the billing companies for most phone networks are Israeli owned/operated, meaning soros/mossad may not have the contents of the calls but it has the goods on who called who and when, tying people together as int agencies attempt to do. Kinda like magicjack or whatever it was/is called, however majicjack, allegedly jewish owned, does have the call contents as well as the participants id's. Lol they found a way to get someone to pay them for spying on them. Such a deal.

[ltorlo64]

I read the story and the remarks General Hyten made and this is much ado about nothing. The General correctly stated that it is his, and every officers, responsibility to advise the people who they serve, whether military or civilian. We cannot be experts on everything so when an order is given that we know to be illegal or improper, it is our responsibility to inform the superior and advise them on how to proceed. I have had this happen to me when I have given out an order and the officer or Chief I give it to comes back with the instruction to show that I can't do what I wanted. Then we look at what I am really wanting to accomplish, determine if it is possible, and if it is, determine how to make it happen. This is the same as happens in any organization. The headlines "US General Would Resist Illegal Order" or "US General Says He Would Disobey Trump" are misleading, at best, and an outright lie, at worst. In other words, the head line if fake news.

[N/A]

The way he said it was that he would inform the President if he thought the decision was wrong (for any reason) and the President would or would not act on that advice. I didn't see that he would refuse a launch order. He also said that as someone responsible for seeing the nukes got fired, he always gives it a lot of thought, no matter if Trump, Obams or whomever. And then there was the part of taking training to know the "protocols" of launching nukes.
Sounds more like to me that he is just describing the scenario involved, not saying he would disobey after all information was given to the President and then the order was given.

ETA....Sounds more like the media, such as it is, is trying to play it in such a way to Make Trump look like a loose nuclear cannon. Taking another shot at Trump that ends up as a short round going off in their faces.

[5.56NATO]

I read it as he's an 0bama holdover and would spike any order coming from Trump.

[ltorlo64]

I read it as he's an 0bama holdover and would spike any order coming from Trump.

The title, as I pointed out, makes it seem that way. What he actually said, however, is nowhere close to that.

[N/A]

https://www.quora.com/Step-by-step-what-is-the-process-required-for-the-United-States-to-launch-a-nuclear-weapon

[N/A]

I read it as he's an 0bama holdover and would spike any order coming from Trump.

A lot of the military is "Obama holdovers". I doubt he enlisted and made General in the 8 years Obama was President. Hell, when Nixon became President, I was a military "holdover" from the Lyndon Johnson presidency. True, I was just an E5, and the only codes I knew was the UCMJ.

Heck, even Intorlo64 is a holdover from the Obama presidency. :D

[ltorlo64]

Heck, even Intorlo64 is a holdover from the Obama presidency. :D

Bite your tongue! :laughingtohard:

[N/A]

Bite your tongue! :laughingtohard:

Not that I'd tell anyone....

[T2K]

My military experience is limited and brief (4 years Army ROTC, 2 years SC Army National Guard) but it was 100% clear in my training that I was to refuse any illegal order from any superior. The general is saying the same thing.

[5.56NATO]

A lot of the military is "Obama holdovers". I doubt he enlisted and made General in the 8 years Obama was President. Hell, when Nixon became President, I was a military "holdover" from the Lyndon Johnson presidency. True, I was just an E5, and the only codes I knew was the UCMJ.

Heck, even Intorlo64 is a holdover from the Obama presidency. :D

What I meant was a domestic enemy aka progressive, regardless of what command he served under. Along the likes of this;
http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/20/report-mcmaster-made-fun-of-trump-at-private-dinner/

[5.56NATO]

My military experience is limited and brief (4 years Army ROTC, 2 years SC Army National Guard) but it was 100% clear in my training that I was to refuse any illegal order from any superior. The general is saying the same thing.

Conversely, I think he's letting his like minded progressives know that if Trump said initiate oplan kimchi (a salvo of nuclear armed alcm targeting Pyonpyang from a flight of b1s) he would refuse that order. Likewise if NK emp'd the US and Trump ordered nuclear retaliation, this officer would likewise refuse. I fear Trump has been excised from the chain of command by the likes of Mcmaster and this guy.

[5.56NATO]

Amazon Announces "AWS Secret" Service For The CIA, US Intelligence
“Today we mark an important milestone as we launch the AWS Secret Region,” said Teresa Carlson, Vice President, Amazon Web Services Worldwide Public Sector. “AWS now provides the U.S. Intelligence Community a commercial cloud capability across all classification levels: Unclassified, Sensitive, Secret, and Top Secret. The U.S. Intelligence Community can now execute their missions with a common set of tools, a constant flow of the latest technology and the flexibility to rapidly scale with the mission. The AWS Top Secret Region was launched three years ago as the first air-gapped commercial cloud and customers across the U.S. Intelligence Community have made it a resounding success. Ultimately, this capability allows more agency collaboration, helps get critical information to decision makers faster, and enables an increase in our Nation’s Security.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-20/amazon-announces-aws-secret-service-cia-us-intelligence

[ltorlo64]

Conversely, I think he's letting his like minded progressives know that if Trump said initiate oplan kimchi (a salvo of nuclear armed alcm targeting Pyonpyang from a flight of b1s) he would refuse that order. Likewise if NK emp'd the US and Trump ordered nuclear retaliation, this officer would likewise refuse. I fear Trump has been excised from the chain of command by the likes of Mcmaster and this guy.

What did the General say that lead you to this belief? Remember to take what he said in context. So read all of his statement and the question he is answering, not just take words out of the middle of a sentence.

[N/A]

It's like this, if any President woke up one morning and called for the Officer with the "football" to open it up so he could launch nukes at North Korea without any provocation or consultation, there isn't one person that will let him launch nukes. It would be an unlawful order, already written and drilled into the memory of all those in command group.

Now, if North Korea launches a nuke at the U.S. , or any of our allies, everyone will know about it in seconds or minutes. The President would then have a lawful situation to launch a proportionate retaliatory attack. That is also already written and drilled into the command group. If the President gave the order, and anyone refused to comply, they could legally be removed and replaced by either the President or those in command further down the line.

As pointed out in the article I linked to, if everyone thought the President was bound and determined to issue an illegal order to launch, then a preselected group could declare him incapacitated, and the Vice-President would become Presidentt and belay those orders.
If the President orders a lawful launch, he can remove anyone who refuses to obey and replace them with someone who will follow lawful orders.

Being in control of the most powerful nuclear arsenal on Earth, you know nothing is left to happenstance. People who are given the power over those weapons are trained in already established protocols in the use of that arsenal. It's only reasonable that a person with that power, anywhere in the launch line, would think about what they would do and how to recognize when they should or should not do it. You don't wait till the last minute to begin to think "Oh shit, what do I do now?" You should already know.

We don't even know if when the time comes that we do need to launch nukes, if the one person who can give the order would be up to doing so. Then what?

[LAGC]

We don't even know if when the time comes that we do need to launch nukes, if the one person who can give the order would be up to doing so. Then what?

Then it might be time to consult the WOPR. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Then it might be time to consult the WOPR. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGamesLOL I was going to comment something about that's why we took all the guys out of the silo's........ LOL

[5.56NATO]

What did the General say that lead you to this belief? Remember to take what he said in context. So read all of his statement and the question he is answering, not just take words out of the middle of a sentence.

I think i got his context just fine.

[5.56NATO]

It's like this, if any President woke up one morning and called for the Officer with the "football" to open it up so he could launch nukes at North Korea without any provocation or consultation, there isn't one person that will let him launch nukes. It would be an unlawful order, already written and drilled into the memory of all those in command group.

Now, if North Korea launches a nuke at the U.S. , or any of our allies, everyone will know about it in seconds or minutes. The President would then have a lawful situation to launch a proportionate retaliatory attack. That is also already written and drilled into the command group. If the President gave the order, and anyone refused to comply, they could legally be removed and replaced by either the President or those in command further down the line.

As pointed out in the article I linked to, if everyone thought the President was bound and determined to issue an illegal order to launch, then a preselected group could declare him incapacitated, and the Vice-President would become Presidentt and belay those orders.
If the President orders a lawful launch, he can remove anyone who refuses to obey and replace them with someone who will follow lawful orders.

Being in control of the most powerful nuclear arsenal on Earth, you know nothing is left to happenstance. People who are given the power over those weapons are trained in already established protocols in the use of that arsenal. It's only reasonable that a person with that power, anywhere in the launch line, would think about what they would do and how to recognize when they should or should not do it. You don't wait till the last minute to begin to think "Oh shit, what do I do now?" You should already know.

We don't even know if when the time comes that we do need to launch nukes, if the one person who can give the order would be up to doing so. Then what?

This is just a guess, but I get the feeling you'd allow NK or Iran to nuke us before we nuked them.

[N/A]

This is just a guess, but I get the feeling you'd allow NK or Iran to nuke us before we nuked them.

That's all it is...a guess on your part.

[ltorlo64]

I think i got his context just fine.

This will sound more argumentative than it is meant because it is written and not verbal. You did not provide the statement that the General made that lead you to this belief.

[5.56NATO]

This will sound more argumentative than it is meant because it is written and not verbal. You did not provide the statement that the General made that lead you to this belief.

It's a combination of what he said as well as the audience he said it to.