Well they cut unemployment benefits last night.

[DeadPool]

Way to go assholes. So now people that had jobs and lost them due to no fault of their own wont be able to support their families. But lets make sure we dont cut any welfare to the ghettos full of baby factory whores who have never worked a day in their worthless lives. Their excuse is they dont want to extend benifits unless it is funded, I say take it from the ghetto trash and give it to good people who actually worked. I'm sure in some way this makes me racist, oh well.

[Randomluck]

Good.

[CigarGuy]

Thought is it'll be one of the "add-on's" the Dems will get to keep the upper income tax cut?!

[Richard Simmons]

After 99 weeks how much more do you want, eternal unemployment?

[Kadmos]

After 99 weeks how much more do you want, eternal unemployment?

Yep, with damn near two years you could retrain for a good number of jobs.

[cciota]

How convienent that this issue comes up after the elections and right before Chistmas. "Those poor people won't have a Christmas." Dems don't give a rats ass about the unemployed. I agree that they cannot continue to add to the deficit with unemployment extensions. How about funding it with unspent TARP or Stimulus money. But how much do you want to be that this and the START treaty gets tied to extending the Bush tax cuts.

[abpt1]

IDK I think our government should support people that lost their job due to government stupidity Like steel workers or people that got fucked by outsourcing or free trade ...till things are made right or new jobs get created for them .

[Richard Simmons]

They had some folks on the radio today talking about "What am I going to tell my children when they have no presents"? Please people, presents are a luxury not a necessity? I remember more than once growing up when my sis and got very little for Xmas and we knew the reason was because things were tough.

Did we want more presents, sure. Were we disappointed, sure we were. Did it scar us forever and force us into counseling and bad marriages, no. It was part of growing up and we learned that you can't have everything you want, when you want it but if you work hard and put your best foot forward mostly you can get all you need and most of what you want.

[abpt1]

They had some folks on the radio today talking about "What am I going to tell my children when they have no presents"? Please people, presents are a luxury not a necessity? I remember more than once growing up when my sis and got very little for Xmas and we knew the reason was because things were tough.

Did we want more presents, sure. Were we disappointed, sure we were. Did it scar us forever and force us into counseling and bad marriages, no. It was part of growing up and we learned that you can't have everything you want, when you want it but if you work hard and put your best foot forward mostly you can get all you need and most of what you want.
Agreed any fool thinking gifts when they cant feed their own family has seriously issues .

[Cypher]

99 weeks, ae you kidding me? I thought it was like 6 months maximum, I guess it went up. In most cases you should be a ble to find a job paying what unemployment pays in much less than 99 weeks, if not you need to move to a different city.

[mriddick]

It sucks some will get 99 weeks and now others are limited, the system could be ran alot better then it is that much is clear.

[yankeedog]

I say take it from the ghetto trash and give it to good people who actually worked And turn them into the new welfare people.
My cousin has been on unemployment for 2.5 years, he say he wants to see how long he can stay on it.
Hes doing it for fun while others are on unemployment as a job.
Around here we have so many factory jobs to hand out, workers are coming from other states to fill the jobs up!

[Nashorn]

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;68958]After 99 weeks how much more do you want, eternal unemployment?[/QUOT


No "ASSHOLE" we want Fukin JOBS. In the last 15 years I got laid off from good paying jobs 4 times because of corporate Greed. Yes some asswipe who cant speak English deserved the job more than me.And the companies were not satisified with billions in profits. Yeah there are some people riding the system, But the majority are good people trying to find non-existant work. This time I plan on going back to school, on the governments dime.I spent 20 years in the military before all this, if it were not for my pension Things would be alot worse.So before you start judging us pull you head out of your ass or better yet quit your job and live off your savings and unemployment if you think it is so great you fukin asswipe.

[samiam]

the 99'ers have some tough choices to make (they should have been thinking about it a long time ago) kinda like the Okie migration to California after the combination of the dust bowl and great depression, which begs the question, who shall harvest the grapes of wrath?

[imanaknut]

Why not, what the heck, go ahead and raise my taxes so that those who lost jobs due to no fault of their own, and after a really reasonable time can't find anything, can enjoy a nice set of Christmas gifts on me.

Funny thing. I quit giving gifts exactly 9 years ago when The Lord's gift to me was to take my wife during the time we celebrated the birth of The Son. Oh wait, that is what Christmas is really about, celebrating Jesus Christ and not how much money we spend on gifts to each other.

Oh, and I don't pay taxes anymore because I quit work after paying into a corrupt system for almost all my life. Planned well and not worried about tomorrow.

Also, I do feel for those who got caught in the latest excuse for companies to downsize and make more profits. I was unemployed for several months before finding a job that took me to retirement. For a while it was scary, but eventually I found work.

After hearing how much money people were getting because they lost their job, I can understand why they don't want the free money stopped. Many are making more by not working then they would if they found one of those jobs that illegals are so willing to take.

Sorry for the above, but after a while...

And yes, all welfare should have a mandatory cutoff date.

[Nashorn]

99 weeks, ae you kidding me? I thought it was like 6 months maximum, I guess it went up. In most cases you should be a ble to find a job paying what unemployment pays in much less than 99 weeks, if not you need to move to a different city.

Really, Pay thousanda of dollars to move when you don"t have a job or steady income. What Wonderland do you live in.you my friend are totally clueless or an idiot. And by the way I have 12 weeks left on my 26 week claim thats 6 months for you collage grads. And no I won't be recieving 99 weeks so sleep well.

[Richard Simmons]

Really, Pay thousanda of dollars to move when you don"t have a job or steady income. What Wonderland do you live in.you my friend are totally clueless or an idiot. And by the way I have 12 weeks left on my 26 week claim thats 6 months for you collage grads. And no I won't be recieving 99 weeks so sleep well.

You sure like cussing other for your own misfortune. i've you've been laid off 4 times in 15 years you should have moved in to another field of work or different part of the country. After all this and your just now looking to go back to school and on top of it all you got a retirement to fall back on as well as health benefits and you're whining about unemployment compensation. Give us all a break, drop the profanity and grow a pair.

[Nashorn]

No, I am not whining about it. I trying to set an ASSHOLE like you straight who think people on unenployment are freeloaders. You need to grow up or STFU before opening your mouth about things you know nothing about except from the other side of the keyboard. Mr "I am a Gunsnet member since 1999".

[yankeedog]

No, I am not whining about it. I trying to set an ASSHOLE like you straight who think people on unenployment are freeloaders. You need to grow up or STFU before opening your mouth about things you know nothing about except from the other side of the keyboard. Mr "I am a Gunsnet member since 1999".
You could have worked at a dollor store or a hog farm while going to school instead of unemployment if you really wanted to not be on goverment handouts.
I took a 6month layoff just for the fun of it to get some of my goverment money back in 08.

[Ruskiegunlover]

nashorn, many of us have been on here for a long time, many on here are older, and by the sound of it, quite a bit older then YOU given the way YOU talk on here.

ALL UNEMPLOYMENT IS ANYMORE is just a way for lazy FUCKS to mooch off of hardworking people during bad times. People who make bad decisions, are generally union, and get laid off. Instead of finding 1 or maybe 2 part time jobs to make ends meet while the economy lags, they just kick back on MY fucking back, and let ME support them so they don't have to work. Like EVERY other bullshit socialist program, it began as just a check you got WHILE YOU ACTIVELY SEARCHED FOR WORK, now its just your 'income' while you WAIT for a job. Fuck unemployment. 99 weks? You are telling me you cannot find ANYTHING in 99 weeks? Bullshit. And I have been there, scraping by on NOTHING, living under the poverty line for a year, so go to hell with this bullshit. People can do this if they try......just so many decide NOT to.

[Kadmos]

Really, Pay thousanda of dollars to move when you don"t have a job or steady income. What Wonderland do you live in.you my friend are totally clueless or an idiot. And by the way I have 12 weeks left on my 26 week claim thats 6 months for you collage grads. And no I won't be recieving 99 weeks so sleep well.

Pack suitcase, get on bus, rent a room.

what "thousands of dollars"?

Sure if you want to pack up 20 years of useless crap, sell your house, yada, yada then it might be harder.

Or you can do what it seems like 10 million or so illegal immigrants do..go out and find the work then send money home.

I'm not saying its easy out there, but knowing you had 99 weeks should have given most people a chance to figure out a plan.

Hell, in that time you can cash out your stuff, move to India, and get your old IT job back!

I know a guy who has been bitching about being on unemployment for a year and a half, asked him what he did, told me he was a union auto worker. Asked what he did at the plant before it closed...he pushed a broom. Seriously?! You can't find any other place where you can push a broom for $300 a week? Nope, because he hasn't been looking. Why look when his benifits now pay him to play xbox all day for the same wage?

BTW, this guy started at the plant about 4 months before it closed.

I'm not saying all are like that, but I'm thinking the one's who really want to work and are willing to do whatever it takes, either are working, have a plan, or will be working damn quick after someone else stops paying thier bills.

[Full Otto]

I'm not saying all are like that

Glad you added that since I'd be one of those. I've been out of work for nearly 13 months now. I heard about the cuts on the radio this morning. I had just gotten a card in the mail that my benefits were extended, according to the news there were only 16,000 in Indiana that got it so I am grateful. I had to wait this summer several weeks till they decided to extend it. I don't like that feeling at all but I've also been contributing to the pot since I got out of highschool 40 years ago so I don't feel one bit guilty about taking it.
I've had to continue to supply health insurance for my daughter as part of my divorce decree which I do through COBRA without reservation but I just found out that my former employer switched insurance companies and even though I've been paying all summer I don't seem to be covered at least till I find out what's going on.
It's not from lack of trying but I've come to realize that my age keeps me out of a lot of prospects hell I got declined for a janator for Flying J truckstops. So many places make you go through their on line survey of checking the right box and just say you didn't pass can't try for 60 days. It's frustrating to say the least
I've also just got my first interview tomorrow after all this time with Purdue University in a copy shop would love to get in there and I'm going but considering the hour commute for a semester long job the unemployment check looks a lot more inviting.

Sorry not singling you out but looked like the best place to jump in and spout off

[abpt1]

Some times you guys really say retarded shit ...Look jobs are non extant here my niece lost her job and is not collecting unemployment or welfare She is living in my rental home since July they pay me what they can she has three part time jobs and still cant get over 20 hrs a week her better half is making $9hr at friendlys she applies for every opening she can find...

My wife has been out of work for a year she has been actively applying at two-three places a week for month's and to date she has not even got a call back so WTF ?


So dont you think after paying into this system for 20 MOTHER FUCKING YEARS this blood sucking system can help my family out for a bit ?

[Schuetzenman]

In July 2009 I lost my job of 4 years. The company closed because it was being sold by the owners, (investment bankers out of Texas) to make up for their losses in the stock market crash of 2008. That was brought on by the crash or bursting of the housing bubble that was engineered by the Democrats starting back in Jimmy Carters administration (damn his anti-Semitic soul to Hell's Inferno for all time).

But I digress; I went on unemployment until October 21, 2009, so 3 months about. I couldn't wait to get off it. But you know what, in my field of Plastic Process Engineering there were almost no jobs to look at. That's the first time in over 20 years that I've seen the market that thin.

I would point out that I wasn't picky; I was willing to relocate about anywhere. However, most employers now will not relocate anybody. I was told by recruiters that most employers would not talk to anybody that owned a home. They knew that such a person would not; 1 be able to sell their house or 2, concentrate on a job if they couldn't. No relocation money or minimal relocation money was offered on most positions. In the past is was full relocation of your household, temporary housing while you looked for a local home. They'd pay a half to a full point on closing of a house purchase and kick in a couple K to buy curtains for the new home. Salaries offered were about an average of $10,000 a year less than I was making.

The job I did land was IMO nothing short of a miracle! Had I not landed it, you wouldn't be seeing me on the net now, as I'd probably be living in my Tundra by now. (It's long paid off so no repo there). The house would of probably gone long before the 99 weeks ran out.

What's all this long-winded post amount to? Just this, I'm saying it isn't easy to find a job in a field a person has been used to working in any more. Pay is way down even when there is an opportunity. I've moved a lot in my life both as a kid due to my parent and his job and as an adult. I am use to moving. Many people are not use to moving and are unwilling to move out of town or state.

Thanks to the Dems, the paradigm has changed.

[DeadPool]

Ive worked my whole life supporting these lazy pieces of shit in the hood so they can collect welfare and sell dope. I said and I'll say it again. TAKE THE FUCKIN MONEY FROM LAZY FAT ASS WELFARE QUEENS AND GIVE IT TO THOSE WHO HAVE WORKED AND LOST A JOB DUE TO NO FAULT OF THERE OWN. How is that not fair? You're gonna compare 99 weeks to an entire lifetime of worthless pieces of ghetto shit? What the fuck is wrong with you people? If you take it from the shit stains, its funded. No extra money. And I agree with the person who said ALL welfare should be limited.

[mriddick]

Is unemployment welfare or insurance? If it's insurance then you get for what you pay for don't you?

[matshock]

Is unemployment welfare or insurance? If it's insurance then you get for what you pay for don't you?

Yeah, that's fair but also fair is that it wasn't supposed to be years-long payouts.

We're fucked because the left wants us to be- let's stay focused.

[mriddick]

Yeah, that's fair but also fair is that it wasn't supposed to be years-long payouts.

We're fucked because the left wants us to be- let's stay focused.

If it's insurance and you pay for 26 weeks then that's what you've paid for, to take more turns the program into welfare IMO.

[aliceinchains]

After 99 weeks how much more do you want, eternal unemployment?


100 :bigsmilebounce:

[Gunner1558]

Had 27 years seniority the last time I was laid off. Worked three part time jobs to keep the wolf away from the door. Three kids, wife, mortgage, car payment and try to keep food on the table.
Too busy to feel sorry for myself.

[Ronwicp]

There are those that are having a hard time, then there are those that game the system. Job fairs are full of people looking for apps so they can show they are "looking" for work.

I can only assume those complaining are posting this stuff from a public library.

[Cypher]

Really, Pay thousanda of dollars to move when you don"t have a job or steady income. What Wonderland do you live in.you my friend are totally clueless or an idiot. And by the way I have 12 weeks left on my 26 week claim thats 6 months for you collage grads. And no I won't be recieving 99 weeks so sleep well.

I don't have anything against collecting unemployment at all, we all pay into the system in case we need it some day. But, 99 weeks is plain ridiculous, where do you think the money comes to support this? Around here the max unemployment a week is $300 I think, if you can't find a job paying $300 a week in well under 99 weeks then you have more problems than simply being unemployed, either personal issues or area economy issues.

If the area you are in doesn't have jobs then you have to move or go without a job. Simple as that, that's life, I don't like it, you don't like it but thats the simple truth of the matter, if there are no jobs in your area then you don't have much of a choice in the matter and bitching about it regardless of the reason won't produce a job for you. It may be as simple as moving a few miles away closer to another city or town.

[bubagun]

I have not had a job for fourteen years. I did not need it anymore so I gave it to a younger man. Now... all I do is watch TV and fart. :)

[l921428x]

I have not had a job for fourteen years. I did not need it anymore so I gave it to a younger man. Now... all I do is watch TV and fart. :)

Now you are my kind of man!! Need a date?

[Lysander]

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;68958]After 99 weeks how much more do you want, eternal unemployment?[/QUOT


No "ASSHOLE" we want Fukin JOBS. In the last 15 years I got laid off from good paying jobs 4 times because of corporate Greed. Yes some asswipe who cant speak English deserved the job more than me.And the companies were not satisified with billions in profits. Yeah there are some people riding the system, But the majority are good people trying to find non-existant work. This time I plan on going back to school, on the governments dime.I spent 20 years in the military before all this, if it were not for my pension Things would be alot worse.So before you start judging us pull you head out of your ass or better yet quit your job and live off your savings and unemployment if you think it is so great you fukin asswipe.


Sounds to me like you've made 5 bad choices.

What skills do you have? What's your experience? What Software are you familiar with using? What's the highest position of responsibility you've attained at any of your jobs?
It's a lot easier to get angry and blame everyone else for a lack of employment. Certainly, it's much easier than a little bit of self examination.

Oh, and cut off the "corporate greed" schtick. Companies exist to make money. Someone else's desire to make money is what created the job you filled in the first place.


...Look jobs are non extant here

Then move.

[Joey]

Sad to see working men attack each other when they should save their anger for the politicians, bankers and CEOs who wrecked the US economy.

Look at the stats. See that 4th column from the left?

http://politicsworldwide.com/download/file.php?id=434

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States)

The US super-rich paid c. 60-90% tax for much of the 20th century. Then Reagan came along and let them off the hook. They've been laughing all the way to the (government bailed-out) bank ever since, making fools of good decent working people.

That taxation kept top wages down for half a century. There's no point the rich organising big pay rises for themselves if it's all eaten up in tax.

High personal tax rates for the rich forced profits into investment and into paying the working and middle classes a decent wage. The taxation was used to build the great US infrastructure projects: dams, interstate highways, putting a man on the moon.

Pathetic to see you squabbling like rats over paltry sums of unemployment benefit while the rich continue to stuff money into their pockets, courtesy of their corrupt politicians.

Where's your sense of priorities? You can't all have been brainwashed by Fox News. Some of you will be old enough to remember when the rich paid their fair share. The rest can at least read a history book.

[Ronwicp]

Holy shit. In what sick fucking world is it acceptable to take 90% of what someone makes.

[Integratedj]

No, I am not whining about it. I trying to set an ASSHOLE like you straight who think people on unenployment are freeloaders. You need to grow up or STFU before opening your mouth about things you know nothing about except from the other side of the keyboard. Mr "I am a Gunsnet member since 1999".


You want a nice aged cheese with that?
Fucking whiner. I was homeless and never asked for a single dime. I busted my ass and reshaped my future. You have still had a roof over your head and food in your belly thanks to taking assistance from Uncle Sugar, have been given plenty of time to right yourself, but are still here sucking the tit and begging for more. How does slavery feel?
Every one bitching about not being able to get a job is simply not trying. There are places hiring all around me down here. All people have to do is actually get off their asses and go try to get them. It may not be a cushy desk job with a 6 figure salary, but with a little hard work it would pay more than the Govt handout does.
I've watched people playing the unemployment system for long enough. Be a man, or go move back in with mommy and daddy where children belong. Life isn't fair, it's real and it's up to every individual to improve their own lives. Go improve yours or shut the fuck up already.

[Integratedj]

Holy shit. In what sick fucking world is it acceptable to take 90% of what someone makes.

It's the world of people who have never owned or run a business and have never felt that kind of tax placed around them and what it does to your work drive. It's the world of class warfare and pussies. The world of "I don't want to try my hardest for my own life, but I will try my hardest to bring everyone down to my level".
The world of, "I don't want to work hard, and I'm going to take away every reason any one else has to work hard and create more jobs for everyone to get paid for".
It's not right to tax any one at any kind of rate just so we can have social programs that feed and house the lazy that refuse to work, or those who choose to be "Disabled".

[Joey]

Holy shit. In what sick fucking world is it acceptable to take 90% of what someone makes.

In a normal, civilized nation where the rich pay their fair share.

What's strange about the current US tax model is you've low taxes for the rich, encouraging high pay to rocket (Wall Street bankers etc) but also very high corporation tax - higher than much of Europe - which encourages your corporations to export jobs. So the US working and middle class are getting f*cked over not once but twice.

Then, to cap it all, you've got Tea Party loons running about, arguing for still lower taxes. Crazy and, as I say, completely at odds with what the US did historically for much of the 20th century. Just check those stats.

They represent, in part, what made America great from 1950 to 1980. Then you allowed Reagan to mess it up (and run a huge budget deficit from which you've never recovered) so money could be stuffed in his rich friends' pockets. Barking mad. And nice working men on this thread fight over nickels and dimes....

[Joey]

It's the world of people who have never owned or run a business and have never felt that kind of tax placed around them and what it does to your work drive. It's the world of class warfare and pussies. The world of "I don't want to try my hardest for my own life, but I will try my hardest to bring everyone down to my level".
The world of, "I don't want to work hard, and I'm going to take away every reason any one else has to work hard and create more jobs for everyone to get paid for".
It's not right to tax any one at any kind of rate just so we can have social programs that feed and house the lazy that refuse to work, or those who choose to be "Disabled".

Was 1950s America really so bad? You're not being very patriotic.

[Integratedj]

In a normal, civilized nation where the rich pay their fair share.

What's strange about the current US tax model is you've low taxes for the rich, encouraging high pay to rocket (Wall Street bankers etc) but also very high corporation tax - higher than much of Europe - which encourages your corporations to export jobs. So the US working and middle class are getting f*cked over not once but twice.

Then, to cap it all, you've got Tea Party loons running about, arguing for still lower taxes. Crazy and, as I say, completely at odds with what the US did historically for much of the 20th century. Just check those stats.

They represent, in part, what made America great from 1950 to 1980. Then you allowed Reagan to mess it up (and run a huge budget deficit from which you've never recovered) so money could be stuffed in his rich friends' pockets. Barking mad. And nice working men on this thread fight over nickels and dimes....


I may be a "Tea party Loon", but at least I am a free man fighting for what's right instead of a Euro Faggot begging for more Government in my life.

[Integratedj]

Was 1950s America really so bad? You're not being very patriotic.

yeah, You know all about patriotism and freedom...

[Ruskiegunlover]

fuck you joey. Do YOU want to give 90% of what YOU make, you communist fuck? The left, and all communists in general, are naive to the point of stupidity on this......you'll respond with 'I'm not rich'.......well guess what you dumb piece of shit, ALL OF US, EVEN THE ONES SEARCHING FOR JOBS ARE RICH TO SOMEONE. The guy living in cardboard on the street will yell out how the guy living in his fucking car on the street is rich, and so on, and so on.......you too are fucking rich, so why don't you start paying 90% of your income? Oh, ha, I forget: you are living in the Union of Ebglish Socialist Republics.....you already pay close to 90% so women can almost die in er rooms having misscarraiges, waiting hours for needed emergency care from your 'superior' healthcare system.

You REALLY say its fair for the rich to pay 90% taxes, in reality pay a MUCH higher percentage of the yearly tax income to our government, while you MIGHT get off your ass to pay 10% Thats FAIR to you? REALLY? I guess its FAIR like a good old fashioned socialist election is.......

One of technologies greatests curses is it allows worthless pieces of shit like you to survive childbirth. I believe the world and America are headed towards some historical times, and I hope that if shtf, I at least get to shoot at people like you before I die.

[Joey]

Integratedj, if you want to be ass-f*cked by the rich, that's a matter for you. But you're out of step economically with the bulk of US 20th century history.

You're like a domestic servant to the wealthy, a butler wringing his hands, saying to his boss:

"Oh please kick my ass some more. But let me change my pants first in case your foot gets dirty!

You're a laughable specimen. Unpatriotic, historically illiterate, grovelling to the rich. At least much of Europe is taking to the streets. 50,000 Irish marched against the corrupt bankers last week, the equivalent of 4 million Americans arriving on Capitol Hill.

And what are you doing? Grovelling to the rich.

[abpt1]

Then move.

Hey fuck tard how about you buy both my houses at what there appraised value is and give me your address and i buy the house across the street and Ill bring my pitbulls and park my old beat up pick on my front lawn drink beer and give you a hard time all day long :fy:

I have a job I work for the state lol !

[Ruskiegunlover]

In nature, the weak of a litter die. In england, they control the rest of the litter, and get to mooch off of and steal from the rest of the litter.

When this dumbfuck, pussy agree's to work for nothing and keep nothing of what he earns, I'll respect him. But like every dumbass socialist I have ever met, its not HIM that should be doing this, its everyone else.........

[Joey]

fuck you joey. Do YOU want to give 90% of what YOU make, you communist fuck? The left, and all communists in general, are naive to the point of stupidity on this......you'll respond with 'I'm not rich'.......well guess what you dumb piece of shit, ALL OF US, EVEN THE ONES SEARCHING FOR JOBS ARE RICH TO SOMEONE. The guy living in cardboard on the street will yell out how the guy living in his fucking car on the street is rich, and so on, and so on.......you too are fucking rich, so why don't you start paying 90% of your income? Oh, ha, I forget: you are living in the Union of Ebglish Socialist Republics.....you already pay close to 90% so women can almost die in er rooms having misscarraiges, waiting hours for needed emergency care from your 'superior' healthcare system.

You REALLY say its fair for the rich to pay 90% taxes, in reality pay a MUCH higher percentage of the yearly tax income to our government, while you MIGHT get off your ass to pay 10% Thats FAIR to you? REALLY? I guess its FAIR like a good old fashioned socialist election is.......

One of technologies greatests curses is it allows worthless pieces of shit like you to survive childbirth. I believe the world and America are headed towards some historical times, and I hope that if shtf, I at least get to shoot at people like you before I die.

Ha! Einstein joins the debate. Another domestic servant defending his master, this one with added death threats. Ruskiegunlover: want to try that again and attempt an argument this time? Would that work for you?

[Integratedj]

Integratedj, if you want to be ass-f*cked by the rich, that's a matter for you. But you're out of step economically with the bulk of US 20th century history.

You're like a domestic servant to the wealthy, a butler wringing his hands, saying to his boss:

"Oh please kick my ass some more. But let me change my pants first in case your foot gets dirty!

You're a laughable specimen. Unpatriotic, historically illiterate, grovelling to the rich. At least much of Europe is taking to the streets. 50,000 Irish marched against the corrupt bankers last week, the equivalent of 4 million Americans arriving on Capitol Hill.

And what are you doing? Grovelling to the rich.

Yeah, I'm unpatriotic because I refuse to steal from my fellow Americans that which they have earned, unlike the Welfare state that you live in where everyone is stealing from everyone else. I grovel to no one. I bust my ass and make my living the way it was intended. With my sweat and my pride. Never once have I begged, never once have I been paid out of Gov funds. It's called self reliance. That is the American way. To many have forgotten that and are now also on the tit, but I have not. I will take from No one that which is not mine, and that I did not earn. No one forces me to do what I do, no one makes me do anything I choose not to. There is no Slavery or groveling in my life.

Most of the Rioting I see in Europe is against their retirement age being raised, and their beloved pensions being cut. Blame the Bankers all you want, but it is your form of Government that allowed this to happen. Socialism is a fucking Fantasy, and most of Europe is still to fucking Tit drunk to realize it.

Historically Illiterate? Go back further than your socialist wet dream graph and you will see what America is supposed to be about Tax wise before a bunch of progressive socialists got hold of our tax system. We would never have a Deficit to begin with if it wasn't for the same kind of shit that runs your Government. Fucking progressive socialist pieces of shit.

[bubagun]

In a normal, civilized nation where the rich pay their fair share.

What's strange about the current US tax model is you've low taxes for the rich, encouraging high pay to rocket (Wall Street bankers etc) but also very high corporation tax - higher than much of Europe - which encourages your corporations to export jobs. So the US working and middle class are getting f*cked over not once but twice.

Then, to cap it all, you've got Tea Party loons running about, arguing for still lower taxes. Crazy and, as I say, completely at odds with what the US did historically for much of the 20th century. Just check those stats.

They represent, in part, what made America great from 1950 to 1980. Then you allowed Reagan to mess it up (and run a huge budget deficit from which you've never recovered) so money could be stuffed in his rich friends' pockets. Barking mad. And nice working men on this thread fight over nickels and dimes....


And it sounds like you supported NAFTA and the EPA and the sierra club and all the other socialist plans to eliminate any industry in America while cheering on 37 million wetbacks coming here and live off of us for free while sucking our social services dry. You act like the wealthy are some kind of enemy class enemy. THAT is of course right out of the communist manifesto. You want us to pay higher taxes? For what? To fund more socialism? You left wing socialists are to blame for every problem ass fucking Amerika today. You refuse to allow the Fed to be regulated. You refuse to allow lower cooperate taxes for industry, you insist on an EPA that drives employers out of the country, you insist on sucking every union's cock, you dimokrats have nationalized the auto industry and given 30% of GM to the fucking autoworkers....so that the workers can own the tools of production....everything you "we gotta pay more taxes" loons touch, turns to shit. People like you could never even run a fucking lemonade stand...unless you received a government subsidy. Just keep banging your fist in mommies basement...eventualy communism will win and we will all be slaves to marxism.

[bubagun]

Yeah, I'm unpatriotic because I refuse to steal from my fellow Americans that which they have earned, unlike the Welfare state that you live in where everyone is stealing from everyone else. I grovel to no one. I bust my ass and make my living the way it was intended. With my sweat and my pride. Never once have I begged, never once have I been paid out of Gov funds. It's called self reliance. That is the American way. To many have forgotten that and are now also on the tit, but I have not. I will take from No one that which is not mine, and that I did not earn. No one forces me to do what I do, no one makes me do anything I choose not to. There is no Slavery or groveling in my life.

Most of the Rioting I see in Europe is against their retirement age being raised, and their beloved pensions being cut. Blame the Bankers all you want, but it is your form of Government that allowed this to happen. Socialism is a fucking Fantasy, and most of Europe is still to fucking Tit drunk to realize it.

Historically Illiterate? Go back further than your socialist wet dream graph and you will see what America is supposed to be about Tax wise before a bunch of progressive socialists got hold of our tax system. We would never have a Deficit to begin with if it wasn't for the same kind of shit that runs your Government. Fucking progressive socialist pieces of shit.

But ....THAT....is Politicaly Incorrect. If you stand in the way of government cheese for the masses....you must be a racist. :)

[mrkalashnikov]

I have never taken a dime of unemployment money & never will. I would rather live under a bridge in a Frigidaire box first, but that's just me, my 2 cents.

When I left my company job after 20 years I left the whole security net that came with it...good health insurance, 401K, nice steady paycheck, some other nice perks. I had a wife and 2 young kids but I did what I thought was right at the time. Looking back 10 years later, best decision I ever made.

[bubagun]

Joey

Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London, England,



Ahhhh...I didn't realize until now...that you were an INGSOC'er. That explains the willingness to bend over for Stalin and to get on your knees for the islamik jihad. People like you, who are and always have been "subjects" instead of free citizens... just do not have a clue as to what life is like without some socialist bureaucrat deciding "what is best for you," when he chews your food, for you, before you can swallow it. Folks, like you, who have always been no more than sheep, first, for your aristocracy and your commissars, to "fleece" and "program for passiveness," any way they see fit... simply cannot be expected to rise above the cradle to grave socialism and understand what American freedom is.

[Blacksmith]

Way to go assholes. So now people that had jobs and lost them due to no fault of their own wont be able to support their families.
Nobody owes you a job. and nobody owes you any of that welfare money.
IMHO
You can either sit there crying about how it’s not your fault. or get off your lazy ass and find some work.

[Cypher]

Sad to see working men attack each other when they should save their anger for the politicians who wrecked the US economy.

Fixed part of your post, not wasting my time on the rest of it.

Are you really that ignorant and naive? Have you graduated high school yet?

[DeadPool]

Nobody owes you a job. and nobody owes you any of that welfare money.
IMHO
You can either sit there crying about how it’s not your fault. or get off your lazy ass and find some work.

You can save that shit for the sub human ghetto chimps you so adore. Ive worked my whole life supporting them. I say we take from the trash and give to the real unfortunate ones. Youre not much for rational dicussion anyway. So fuck off.

[Blacksmith]

You can save that shit for the sub human ghetto chimps you so adore. Ive worked my whole life supporting them. I say we take from the trash and give to the real unfortunate ones. Youre not much for rational dicussion anyway. So fuck off.

You entitlement fucks make me sick.
BTW
How’s all that Hope and change working out for you?
Tool

[DeadPool]

You entitlement fucks make me sick.
BTW
How’s all that Hope and change working out for you?
Tool

Its called insurance. Which means its payed for by businesses. It isnt an entitlement. Welfare is what your speaking of. Why dont you try to address the topic at hand? Take from the entitled ones and give to the real unfortunate, what do you have against that? Since entitlements make you sick, well you and I agree.

[Joey]

Yeah, I'm unpatriotic because I refuse to steal from my fellow Americans that which they have earned, unlike the Welfare state that you live in where everyone is stealing from everyone else. I grovel to no one. I bust my ass and make my living the way it was intended. With my sweat and my pride. Never once have I begged, never once have I been paid out of Gov funds. It's called self reliance. That is the American way. To many have forgotten that and are now also on the tit, but I have not. I will take from No one that which is not mine, and that I did not earn. No one forces me to do what I do, no one makes me do anything I choose not to. There is no Slavery or groveling in my life.

Most of the Rioting I see in Europe is against their retirement age being raised, and their beloved pensions being cut. Blame the Bankers all you want, but it is your form of Government that allowed this to happen. Socialism is a fucking Fantasy, and most of Europe is still to fucking Tit drunk to realize it.

Historically Illiterate? Go back further than your socialist wet dream graph and you will see what America is supposed to be about Tax wise before a bunch of progressive socialists got hold of our tax system. We would never have a Deficit to begin with if it wasn't for the same kind of shit that runs your Government. Fucking progressive socialist pieces of shit.

But you're not paying your way. You're living in a nation whose infrastructure was funded by the c. 90% tax rate, applied to the American rich, from roughly 1932 to Reagan's first budget in the early 1990s.

You're like a ponce living off a woman. Or a kid living at home off his parents. Or an old English aristocrat not doing any work, but living in the mansion his grandparents built, spending inherited wealth which they created, doing nothing about the leaking roof.

In other words you're a thief and a parasite: poncing off the infrastructure built up by past generations of hard-working, socially responsible, Americans, and thieving from your children, and your neighbour's children, by failing to leave America a better, richer place for them to enjoy.

What you wrote about "standing on your own two feet" is just so much hysterical bullshit: a fantasy designed to conceal your generational robbery.

How does it feel to be a pompous, duplicitous, fantasing, thief, stealing from future generations, and poncing off the achievements of better men than you? Think about it next time you drive on an interstate, built and paid for with that historic 90% tax rate.

[Blacksmith]

Its called insurance. Which means its payed for by businesses. It isnt an entitlement. Welfare is what your speaking of. Why dont you try to address the topic at hand? Take from the entitled ones and give to the real unfortunate, what do you have against that? Since entitlements make you sick, well you and I agree.

3 or 4 weeks is insurance. anything longer than that is welfare. what you are talking about is getting people that were once productive hooked on the government Tit.
As for addressing the topic at hand. I found out many years ago that Fascist can only contribute to a conversation when every person involved agrees with them. If there is any variation from their limited IQ and the brainwashing that their pea sized brains have been forced to endure. they go into a hate rant frenzy that can last for days or even weeks.

[DeadPool]

3 or 4 weeks is insurance. anything longer than that is welfare. what you are talking about is getting people that were once productive hooked on the government Tit.
As for addressing the topic at hand. I found out many years ago that Fascist can only contribute to a conversation when every person involved agrees with them. If there is any variation from their limited IQ and the brainwashing that their pea sized brains have been forced to endure. they go into a hate rant frenzy that can last for days or even weeks.

If some one takes longer than 3 or 4 weeks then take from the ones that have lived on the government for their entire lives and give to the ones who worked their entire lives. Thats all I'm saying. People who worked deserve it. The others do not. Why not help the real unfortunates and take from the onres with there hand out? I agree with you that it can lead to laziness but eventually people who generally have pride in themselves will return to work. The others will never.

[Blacksmith]

If some one takes longer than 3 or 4 weeks then take from the ones that have lived on the government for their entire lives and give to the ones who worked their entire lives. Thats all I'm saying. People who worked deserve it. The others do not. Why not help the real unfortunates and take from the onres with there hand out? I agree with you that it can lead to laziness but eventually people who generally have pride in themselves will return to work. The others will never.

Ya that’s it.
I know quite a few people that are not physically and or mentally able to work. Some of the well off ones make $700.00 a month. They have had way too much for way too long. Sarcasm intended.
I think what you actually mean is take money from the Black welfare recipients and give it to the White unemployed.
IMHO
That’s the problem with Fascist. Their hatred causes there little brains to pop out stupid ideas.

[DeadPool]

Ya that’s it.
I know quite a few people that are not physically and or mentally able to work. Some of the well off ones make $700.00 a month. They have had way too much for way too long. Sarcasm intended.
I think what you actually mean is take money from the Black welfare recipients and give it to the White unemployed.
IMHO
That’s the problem with Fascist. Their hatred causes there little brains to pop out stupid ideas.

You may need stitches to stop yout heart from bleeding for them. Liberal gun owners, it just aint right.

[Blacksmith]

You may need stitches to stop yout heart from bleeding for them. Liberal gun owners, it just aint right.

The whole Fascist thing just never worked for me.
You want to go around gassing or starving the sick and crippled, go right ahead. You’re not doing anything original.
Besides. you make an excellent government Tool.

[DeadPool]

The whole Fascist thing just never worked for me.
You want to go around gassing or starving the sick and crippled, go right ahead. You’re not doing anything original.
Besides. you make an excellent government Tool.

Yea that does sound cool. Its been hard keeping my 3 lebanese daughters and latina fiance from the rest of my fellow Nazis though. Oh if they ever found out! Try again lefty.

[Blacksmith]

Yea that does sound cool. Its been hard keeping my 3 lebanese daughters and latina fiance from the rest of my fellow Nazis though. Oh if they ever found out! Try again lefty.
Damn
Sounds like a lot of inbreeding going on at your house.
IMHO
You should be careful of that. incest is never a good thing.

[Blacksmith]

BTW
I never had you tagged as NCLR. But that does explain a lot.

[DeadPool]

Damn
Sounds like a lot of inbreeding going on at your house.
IMHO
You should be careful of that. incest is never a good thing.

Not being able to peg me as a racist is really getting to you isnt it? I dont know what a NCLR is and I dont care. Its kinda fucked up attacking ones children dont you think lefty? Oh wait, your a liberal. Yall did the same thing to Sarah Palin.

[Blacksmith]

Not being able to peg me as a racist is really getting to you isnt it? I dont know what a NCLR is and I dont care. Its kinda fucked up attacking ones children dont you think lefty? Oh wait, your a liberal. Yall did the same thing to Sarah Palin.
LMAO
Crying about me attacking your children. but it is OK to attack my daughter.
You are a sick little man. and your victim routine will not work here.
Damn Trolls keep getting dumber and dumber

[Solidus-snake]

[QUOTE=DeadPool;69427]Its kinda fucked up attacking ones children dont you think lefty?QUOTE]

That is pretty shitty.

[DeadPool]

LMAO
Crying about me attacking your children. but it is OK to attack my daughter.
You are a sick little man. and your victim routine will not work here.
Damn Trolls keep getting dumber and dumber

I know, only blacks can be victims. But I didnt accuse you of fucking her. I only said she loves black cock....wait, thats even worse, I appologize.

[Blacksmith]

I know, only blacks can be victims. But I didnt accuse you of fucking her. I only said she loves black cock....wait, thats even worse, I appologize.

I did not accuse you of Fucking her. But I can see why a pedophile like you would jump to that conclusion.

[DeadPool]

Damn
Sounds like a lot of inbreeding going on at your house.
IMHO
You should be careful of that. incest is never a good thing.

Of course you didnt.

[FunkyPertwee]

Not being able to peg me as a racist is really getting to you isnt it? I dont know what a NCLR is and I dont care. Its kinda fucked up attacking ones children dont you think lefty? Oh wait, your a liberal. Yall did the same thing to Sarah Palin.

You do your very best to sound like a racist, then you want to play innocent.

Does this line from the other thread peg you as a racist?

You want it directly, I'm prejudiced towards blacks. Hows that for direct? And I have very good reasons.

Its like your begging to be hated, and then you act like you can't believe anyone would think poorly of innocent mr. deadpool.

[FunkyPertwee]

BTW that was from you post #147 in the 8'th page of the "Whity charged with 62 % of hate crimes in America" thread.

[DeadPool]

You do your very best to sound like a racist, then you want to play innocent.

Does this line from the other thread peg you as a racist?


Its like your begging to be hated, and then you act like you can't believe anyone would think poorly of innocent mr. deadpool.

Again racism and prejudice have two different meanings. Look it up.

[DeadPool]

And I believe someone used the term "wetback" in this very thread. But lets just let that one go, it wasnt offensive to the only race that matters in your minds.

[Blacksmith]

Spermpool
You are a Damn liar.
Anyone that would take a shot at somebody and then play the victim when it is done to him.
Is a POS.
That and taking a shot at me on a thread I had not even posted on, just screams Coward.

You are a vindictive little prick. And a Troll.

[FunkyPertwee]

Again racism and prejudice have two different meanings. Look it up.

Definition of Racism by Merriam Webster:

: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination

Definition of prejudice by Merriam Webster:

Definition of PREJUDICE
1
: injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2
a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

Here is prejudice from the Merriam Webster learner's dictionary, for kids and slow people I guess:

Meaning:
1 : an unfair feeling of dislike for a person or group because of race, sex, religion, etc. [noncount] ▪ The organization fights against racial prejudice. —often + against ▪ evidence of prejudice against women and minorities [count] ▪ religious, racial, and sexual prejudices
2 [count] : a feeling of like or dislike for someone or something especially when it is not reasonable or logical ▪ We tend to make these kinds of decisions according to our own prejudices. ▪ He has a prejudice against fast-food restaurants.

So what was the big difference you were trying to point out? Neither is good, and prejudice is included in the definition of racism. Maybe you use a different dictionary?

[DeadPool]

Definition of Racism by Merriam Webster:


Definition of prejudice by Merriam Webster:


Here is prejudice from the Merriam Webster learner's dictionary, for kids and slow people I guess:


So what was the big difference you were trying to point out? Neither is good, and prejudice is included in the definition of racism. Maybe you use a different dictionary?

So if I'm prejudice against say "Glock" because I have a personal experience of them blowing up, I'm naturally going to buy something else. It doesnt mean I think all Glocks will blow up.

Compare that to my prejudice towards blacks. I have many bad experiences with them. I'm not going to list them all because they are so numerous it would take a whole page. How about the worst one instead, in 2007 a friend of mine was robbed beaten and killed for being in the wrong neighborhood. This type of personal experience may cause one to be prejudice towards a particular people. And I am, get over it.

[Blacksmith]

Its kinda fucked up attacking ones children dont you think lefty?
[/QUOTE]


If i wanted that I'd go look up your daughters long list of boyfriends.

How did you gather that from your daughters massive list of black boyfriends? Sorry, it aint my fault you raised her that way.


You poor little shit bag victim

[DeadPool]

But I never said you fucked her. I just assume the entire basketball team at her school did. Later Leroy.


You poor little shit bag victim[/QUOTE]

[Blacksmith]

But I never said you fucked her. I just assume the entire basketball team at her school did. Later Leroy.


You poor little shit bag victim[/QUOTE]


Its kinda fucked up attacking ones children dont you think lefty?
LMAO
You are one dumb little Troll

[DeadPool]

LMAO
You are one dumb little Troll[/QUOTE]

You accused me of incest and pedophilia Leroy. Fuck you.

[Blacksmith]

LMAO
You are one dumb little Troll

You accused me of incest and pedophilia Leroy. Fuck you.[/QUOTE]

If you don’t want people to think you are a gay inbred pedophile, stop acting like a gay inbred pedophile. Nancy

[1 Patriot-of-many]

After 99 weeks how much more do you want, eternal unemployment?

Yeah, I agree I only have so much sympathy. Most unemplyment centers will pay for your training in another field. Every time I ever got laid off, it was six months tops, no extentions.
Didn't wait out the 6 months most of the time, even took jobs that paid 1/2 what the job I got laid off from.

[DeadPool]

You accused me of incest and pedophilia Leroy. Fuck you.

If you don’t want people to think you are a gay inbred pedophile, stop acting like a gay inbred pedophile. Nancy[/QUOTE]

You know what? I did bring yer daughter into this shit first. That was wrong, I didnt know you had one. So I'm really appologizing for that. There, its publicly stated. Accept it or dont

[Blacksmith]

You know what? I did bring yer daughter into this shit first. That was wrong, I didnt know you had one. So I'm really appologizing for that. There, its publicly stated. Accept it or dont

You’re the one that played the victim card. Not me.

[Lysander]

Hey fuck tard how about you buy both my houses at what there appraised value is and give me your address and i buy the house across the street and Ill bring my pitbulls and park my old beat up pick on my front lawn drink beer and give you a hard time all day long :fy:

I have a job I work for the state lol !

Anybody parks their vehicle on my lawn, and I'll tow that shit myself and use it to store tannerite.

As far as beat up pickup trucks, it'd look great next to my 4Clunker.

You bitch about how bad things are in SE PA, then MOVE. Lots of Men, and Women, left one partner at home and went and worked and lived out of cars, hotels, or campers. That falls under "sucking it up" and doing what's right. It sure as shit beats sitting on the Internet bitching like a woman.

[abpt1]

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/abpt1/Popcorn-1.jpg

[abpt1]

Anybody parks their vehicle on my lawn, and I'll tow that shit myself and use it to store tannerite.

As far as beat up pickup trucks, it'd look great next to my 4Clunker.

You bitch about how bad things are in SE PA, then MOVE. Lots of Men, and Women, left one partner at home and went and worked and lived out of cars, hotels, or campers. That falls under "sucking it up" and doing what's right. It sure as shit beats sitting on the Internet bitching like a woman.

Lysander I actually WORK for the State of PA. I am a network engineer Dude we are fine.
I was just fucking with you .....

[Lysander]

Dude, sorry.

Trust me, I know how hard it is to leave family. I came damn close to having to do that. Nothing like finding out the job you accepted got downsized while you were 6,000 miles away.

[abpt1]

Dude, sorry.

Trust me, I know how hard it is to leave family. I came damn close to having to do that. Nothing like finding out the job you accepted got downsized while you were 6,000 miles away.
Yeah the wife is out of work not me and shit I cant take care of three kids and work so she cant move ? Its all good hopefully there are two or three places that she is in negotiations with hell I dont think we would have any problems being neighbors the ones I have now are gun hating obama freaks that make 120-150k a year and look down their nose at me every chance they get....

[Lysander]

Oh, I'd still look down my nose at you when you cracked open a Keystone.

[abpt1]

Nope this month we are drinking an Irish stout a home brew made with white labs Irish stout ale yeast looks like a very dark stout but is more like killians...

[JAMC]

What I don't understand about this issue in the US is why so many have such a hard time grasping the concept that it's entirely possible (probable even during the current economic slump) that an individual made redundant or unemployed because of circumstances beyond their control would be genuinely unable to find another job within a period of 99 weeks without effectively liquidating their entire lives and moving to China, where there's no shortage of demand for labour.

This is what happens in times of economic turmoil - the economy spits people out that it's no longer prepared to sustain, then closes ranks. Here's an article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11894634) from our side of the ocean about your current dilemma. It is completely unfathomable to me how you can argue the case that those genuinely unable to find work (as opposed to those that are simply unwilling) for any number of reasons should only be supported until an arbitrary time period has elapsed.

If there's no jobs where you live, and you can't move because you either can't sell your house or you've got dependents to consider, what are you supposed to do? Starve?

[Lysander]

If there's no jobs where you live, and you can't move because you either can't sell your house or you've got dependents to consider, what are you supposed to do? Starve?

"Can't" and "Won't" are words the unemployed should never use.

Add to that I can tell you for a fact that for the last 3 years every UPS, FedEx, Target, Wal Mart, Macy's JC Penny, and every other major retailer have been hiring from October-December and there's the chance for at least temporary employment. McDonald's is always hiring.

When dealing with those unemployed for more than a year one generally sees that it's not a "Lack of jobs" that keeps them from working, but a "lack of jobs [that they want]".

As to relocation, illegal and legal immigrants do it all the time. Many of our grandparents did so as well. If you're not willing to do whatever it takes to get a job, then you do deserve to starve. You certainly have no right to call yourself a man or demand of others to pay your way.

[Joey]

What I don't understand about this issue in the US is why so many have such a hard time grasping the concept that it's entirely possible (probable even during the current economic slump) that an individual made redundant or unemployed because of circumstances beyond their control would be genuinely unable to find another job within a period of 99 weeks without effectively liquidating their entire lives and moving to China, where there's no shortage of demand for labour.

This is what happens in times of economic turmoil - the economy spits people out that it's no longer prepared to sustain, then closes ranks. Here's an article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11894634) from our side of the ocean about your current dilemma. It is completely unfathomable to me how you can argue the case that those genuinely unable to find work (as opposed to those that are simply unwilling) for any number of reasons should only be supported until an arbitrary time period has elapsed.

If there's no jobs where you live, and you can't move because you either can't sell your house or you've got dependents to consider, what are you supposed to do? Starve?

False conciousness innit. Fox News tells them to blame each other rather than the rotten system, or the idle rich, or the corrupt, idiot politicians.

I don't like seeing it. Working men should support each other. They've enough problems without fighting their neighbours like ferrets in a sack.

But there you are. Desperate people who've had vast amounts of propaganda shoved at them do silly things. They're like turkeys voting for Christmas. That's the function of Rupert Murdoch: keep the turkeys clucking while the rich laugh at them.

[mriddick]

Idle rich... There are actually two types of rich, the "working rich" those who make alot of money working for it, and the trust fund rich those who simply inherit it. Think of a well paid doctor or successful businessman as a working rich type. On the other Paris Hilton, my own grandkids ;) or the late Ted Kennedy as an example of the trust fund rich. I think when many think "rich" they think of the trust fund rich, those who jet set around and do little work, sadly though when politicians tax the rich they mostly hit the working rich.

The same pretty much applies to the poor there's the working poor and the institutionalized poor, again the difference is someone who is poor but works and someone trained to lived off the system.

I think a good case could be made that of those 4 groups only one is not really making an effort at pulling their weight. IMO instead of worrying about how we can get more out of the working classes via class warfare we should be looking at the less productive members of society and figure a way to utilize their labor. IMO the only unproductive members of society we should put up with are those carried by the labor of their own family, to allow the state to become the "trust fund" of a generation of potential workers is silly.

[Solidus-snake]

I have noticed that alot here are quick to rush to the defense of the filthy rich.

Doesnt anyone have a problem with tax breaks for the rich while the poor shell out more and more?

"well they worked for it" I guess throwing everyone under the bus IS hard work. I dont care how much schooling you have, last i seen those big corporate jobs werent just walked in and applied for.

Are you saying its fine and dandy i have to pay $200 (with insurance) for meds so i can help pay the doctors salary?

I dunno i must be one of the only ones here with a blue collar because it seems most everyone else here is quick to forsake the actual working class.

[mriddick]

I have noticed that alot here are quick to rush to the defense of the filthy rich.

Doesnt anyone have a problem with tax breaks for the rich while the poor shell out more and more?

"well they worked for it" I guess throwing everyone under the bus IS hard work. I dont care how much schooling you have, last i seen those big corporate jobs werent just walked in and applied for.

Are you saying its fine and dandy i have to pay $200 (with insurance) for meds so i can help pay the doctors salary?

I dunno i must be one of the only ones here with a blue collar because it seems most everyone else here is quick to forsake the actual working class.

Lets face it if your part of the working rich you already pay more then everyone else, alot more. Granted if talking the trust fund rich they pay a much smaller percentage in relation to their lifestyle but they still pay something. I would think if there is any effort to "soak the rich" we should atleast target the ones not working (trust fund) VS the working class rich. Although if listing how I would target the various groups I would still put the nonworking institutionalized poor as the first target, then maybe the trust funders, I think we already hit the working classes of all types (rich and poor) enough.

[Lysander]

I have noticed that alot here are quick to rush to the defense of the filthy rich.

Doesnt anyone have a problem with tax breaks for the rich while the poor shell out more and more?

"well they worked for it" I guess throwing everyone under the bus IS hard work. I dont care how much schooling you have, last i seen those big corporate jobs werent just walked in and applied for.

Are you saying its fine and dandy i have to pay $200 (with insurance) for meds so i can help pay the doctors salary?

I dunno i must be one of the only ones here with a blue collar because it seems most everyone else here is quick to forsake the actual working class.

If the common thread in all the failures of your life is yourself, the best place to start looking is in a mirror.

[Schuetzenman]

I have noticed that alot here are quick to rush to the defense of the filthy rich.

Doesnt anyone have a problem with tax breaks for the rich while the poor shell out more and more?

"well they worked for it" I guess throwing everyone under the bus IS hard work. I dont care how much schooling you have, last i seen those big corporate jobs werent just walked in and applied for.

Are you saying its fine and dandy i have to pay $200 (with insurance) for meds so i can help pay the doctors salary?

I dunno i must be one of the only ones here with a blue collar because it seems most everyone else here is quick to forsake the actual working class.

Trust me I'm not rich. That said nobody making even $100,000 a year ever gave me a full time job I could live on. The concept of "Taxing the Rich" is a Socialist class warfare tactic. It's designed to create class envy, there are always going to be and always has been fewer Rich people than average or poor people. Rich people create corporations, corporations build factories and provide jobs for the "working man" which even this term "working man" is a specious argument and just another part of driving a wedge of resentment between people with less money and those that have a lot of it.

As I type this I am hearing a montage of sound bites of Obama spewing the following; "I'm gonna roll back the Bush Tax cuts for the rich"! They must of had over a dozen exact duplicate sound bites from different Obama propoganda speaches. Thing is, if these are just Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich, how come people making as little as 40K are going to be forking over a lot more federal tax? The answer is easy, they are lying to you and everybody else to say it's a cut only for the Rich. For what I make I'll be forking over an extra 3K possibly if these tax rates are not renewed.

Focus here on what I'm saying, these are not tax cuts for the rich. This is a maintaining of our current tax rates, the same ones we've been living with for 10 years. Taxing isn't the problem in the US, Spending by Congress IS! Time to cut the spending and then cut it some more. This country survived just fine for over 150 years with no permanante income tax on anybody. We need to get back to our roots of no income tax and the maintaing of what we already have is just a tiny step in that proper direction.

[CigarGuy]

I'm still not convinced that a couple making $250K, living in New York or somewhere like that, should be considered "rich". Of course, this is probably the new definition of "rich"?
Envy, of ANY kind, can be so destructive.....

Edit: Didn't mean to say "rich". Meant to say "filthy rich".

[JAMC]

"Can't" and "Won't" are words the unemployed should never use.
There will be instances where both terms are entirely appropriate and accurate. Perhaps the "can't" scenario is more prevalent in Britain than in the US (there are many factors but essentially it's a lot harder to relocate yourself in the UK), but the "won't" is a term applicable everywhere for those gaming the system - a group, albeit a small one, that I think everyone is entitled to dispise.


Add to that I can tell you for a fact that for the last 3 years every UPS, FedEx, Target, Wal Mart, Macy's JC Penny, and every other major retailer have been hiring from October-December and there's the chance for at least temporary employment. McDonald's is always hiring.
The first issue with this is that a temporary reprieve in the form of Christmas work isn't an outright answer to the underlying problem - people need some semblance of economic stability in their lives if they're going to be able to settle down, raise a family and make a meaningful contribution to the economic output of society. Without it, people will find it increasingly difficult to obtain a mortgage or save for a deposit for somewhere to live. While some degree of geographical flexibility on the part of the workforce is obviously a necessity for economic reasons, the idea of using destitution as a method of forcing large numbers of low-income workers and their families into overcrowded economic hot-spots is not a sensible one in the long term.

The McDonalds thing brings up another aspect of this whole problem - working at a net loss. I can only speak for the UK, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that a couple with two or three children both working at entry-level positions in McDonalds here would simply not be able to afford to live in this country. I know the cost of living is higher in Britain than it is in the US, but you'll have to tell me whether you think it's possible for a similar-sized family to get by on the entry-level McDonalds salary over there, but I'd be very skeptical about the prospect.


When dealing with those unemployed for more than a year one generally sees that it's not a "Lack of jobs" that keeps them from working, but a "lack of jobs [that they want]".
A continuation of the above - the question is not whether they want the jobs, but whether they can afford to take them - losing their right to unemployment relief in the process. It's a well known hallmark of the UK unemployment system that some families (typically single-parent, multiple child families) are trapped into dependency on the state; were they to take a minimum wage job, they would be poorer as a result when compared to what the state pays in unemployment relief - which, I should point out, is set at a level that the government determines is barely enough to keep you alive. When the only jobs on offer are so poorly paid that you effectively face starvation and severe hardship no matter what you do, that's not really a choice at all.

The benefits system in Britain was effectively used as a safety blanket by the Labour government throughout the late 1990s and 2000s, to shield the low-income voters they depended on from the harsh realities of the massively stratified and unbalanced economy they'd built. I'm inclined to agree that people shouldn't be protected from their true plight, so long as there's a genuine opportunity (provided by a level playing field) that would enable those below the poverty line to dig themselves out by their own efforts. At the moment there is no such opportunity in Britain, and arguably there hasn't been that kind of opportunity for over three decades. This is why Britain is in such a moral dilemma over the imminent government spending cuts - we know it'll devistate people's lives because no genuine opportunity for the poor to escape their plight exists, but none of the mainstream political parties have proposed an alternative way of dealing with the underlying poverty trap.


As to relocation, illegal and legal immigrants do it all the time. Many of our grandparents did so as well. If you're not willing to do whatever it takes to get a job, then you do deserve to starve. You certainly have no right to call yourself a man or demand of others to pay your way.
One of the core functions of governance, and of civilisation in general, is to protect the entire community from harm. The first communities and cities built walls to protect themselves from hostile outside forces, then they raised armies to further protect themselves and their collective interests. However, the concept of harm in most modernised, western societies is not limited to the risk of military conquest. It encompasses all forces, whether they're military, economic, ecological, political or social, that threaten the collective interests of the community. This idea runs deep in Britain, and it's the reason why the first instinct of politicians and the public is to actively intervene in areas where wider economic forces have created real hardships for a particular town, city or region; in order to try and help that community recover by finding ways of providing employment and investment. The vast majority of British people would completely abhor the idea that a community should simply be left to die as a result of economic forces beyond their control - which is essentially what you're advocating when you step back and look at the effect your suggestions would have in the long term.

[JAMC]

IMO the only unproductive members of society we should put up with are those carried by the labor of their own family
This principle is essentially what the original welfare state was all about, only applied across society as a whole instead of restricted to each individual family unit to implement. Think of each family as spanning three generations; at one end you've got the grandparents, who've worked from their late teens until their mid 60s but are now dependent on their children for support in their old age. At the other end you've got the children, who are completely dependent on their parents for all their material needs and also for their development into fully rounded adults. And in the middle you've got the parents, or the "working" generation - who are ultimately responsible for the wellbeing of the other two generations because they owe a debt of care to their own parents and a responsibility of care towards their own children - and also command the greatest means.

This idea, writ large across society as a whole, was the driving force behind the introduction of compulsory, free education for all children, protection against unemployment for the workers and the establishment of state pensions for the elderly. The welfare state can be boiled down to the concept that no individual should be made to suffer because of the ineptitude, irresponsibility or (in some cases) non-existence of the preceeding or succeeding generation within their own, narrow family unit. That is the inherent freedom it offers.

[JAMC]

The concept of "Taxing the Rich" is a Socialist class warfare tactic. It's designed to create class envy
I originally posted this elsewhere, but I think it needs to be added to this discussion in response to your assertion that higher tax rates for high earners are based purely on class envy, and that tax cuts for the rich lead to better economic conditions for the poor - neither of which is true....

Apart from the obvious principle that those commanding the greatest slice of a nation's wealth should bare the greatest responsibility for funding it's communal or collective works, there is another powerful argument in favour of returning to the days of high tax rates for the wealthy - an argument that has only entered my concious mind in the last year or so.

Part of the problem with the Thatcherite ideology that dominated the closing years of the 20th century is that it has allowed social mobility, the idea that an individual may better their place in society by their own efforts, to collapse completely. The net result of abolishing the old upper tax rates has been the return of dickensian ascription with a vengeance. The root cause of this is that with no deeply progressive tax mechanism it has become far too easy for those that are already wealthy to keep hold of their wealth - to rest on their laurels.

Our society requires no further effort or contribution to the common good from the super-rich in order to justify their continued place at the pinnacle of our social hierarchy, and as such the primary focus of the super rich shifts away from the activity that produced wealth in the first place, but instead to wealth preservation and wealth management. Allowing the super-rich to retain their wealth more easily has not produced a greater net outcome for society as a whole because the additional resources available to the super-rich are invariably diverted towards the task of preserving the social position the individual has attained.

Social mobility as a concept depends on the basic principle that every individual's place in the social hierarchy can be justified by their immediate contribution or worth (however you choose to define it), and that those occupying the scant, elite positions at the top may not be permitted to rest on their past accomplishments in order to retain their position. In short, in a truly meritocratic system must be blinkered to past accomplishments, and an individual wishing to reach the top must be more than briefly brilliant - they must be consistently brilliant in order to stay there. This is the only way to ensure that the ladder of prosperity isn't pulled up out of reach of the next generation, and that each individual stands a moderate chance of succeeding by their own efforts, regardless of the circumstances of their birth.

[JAMC]

I'm still not convinced that a couple making $250K, living in New York or somewhere like that, should be considered "rich". Of course, this is probably the new definition of "rich"?
The underlying truth that you're reaching for is that "wealth" and "poverty" are completely relative to each other.

[Charliebravo]

Think of each family as spanning three generations; at one end you've got the grandparents, who've worked from their late teens until their mid 60s but are now dependent on their children for support in their old age.
In that case, the grandparents didn't plan properly for their retirement. Mrs. 'Bravo and I will NEVER be a financial burden to our children. We invest a shitload into our PRIVATE retirement accounts. We have a 6 year old obsolete computer, old-school 300 lb. televisions (no flat screens), we drive old cars that are paid-for (mine's 15 years old with 190,000 miles on the odometer), we don't buy expensive designer brand clothing, and we take modest vacations (if we can afford one that year at all). We live like this because we pay ourselves FIRST. Retirement plans are funded by voluntary payroll deductions where the funds go directly into retirement accounts (this is above and beyond my employer-sponsored pension plan). We never even see the money. It's there, but we can't use it. We have friends who make less than we do, yet have bigger houses, drive new cars (financed of course), wear designer clothes, and take lavish vacations........all on the credit card. We know that they probably secretly poke fun at us for our lifestyle choices; however, at our current rate of saving, I'll retire on my 54th birthday. Mrs. 'Bravo will be 51. Not bad for a beat cop and a floor nurse. Our friends will die on the job and their kids' inheritance probably won't even pay off the creditors. It's all about priorities. Unfortunately, due to the acts of our government, I will probably have to support my kids well into adulthood. They, and likely my future grandchildren, are being sold into economic bondage by the government's reckless spending. Sure, they're doing it in the name of "compassion", but these "compassionate" congresscritters that are creating the financial slavery for future generations will be long-since dead by the time that the bill comes due, so what do they care? I can easily foresee a future for my kids with no jobs available and 60% taxation for those who do manage to find employment. Somehow I just don't think that this is what our Founders had in mind.

[Solidus-snake]

Never owned a credit card and never will. Thats one of my ways of not getting neck deep in hardship.

[Charliebravo]

Never owned a credit card and never will. Thats one of my ways of not getting neck deep in hardship.We're a little off-topic, but I do what I call the Modified Ramsey Plan. We don't use credit per se, but I still have a credit card. I've had the account compromised twice in the last 3 years. With the credit card it's no big deal. The bank simply snatches the money back out of the vendor's account, closes my account, and issues a new card. If that were my debit card, they could clean me out and it could take weeks to sort out.....with me bouncing checks all over the place in the meantime. I only use it for internet purchases and eating out at restaurants where the waiter walks away with the card. I make the charges, then immediately transfer the money from my checking account to the credit card (both from BofA), often before the original charge is even posted. It's basically just a buffer between my checking account and the vendor. Anybody not on the Ramsey Plan needs to get there......FAST. Our financial outlook, as a nation, isn't getting any better. Might as well put yourself into a position where it doesn't hit as hard.

[Richard Simmons]

In that case, the grandparents didn't plan properly for their retirement. Mrs. 'Bravo and I will NEVER be a financial burden to our children. We invest a shitload into our PRIVATE retirement accounts. We have a 6 year old obsolete computer, old-school 300 lb. televisions (no flat screens), we drive old cars that are paid-for (mine's 15 years old with 190,000 miles on the odometer), we don't buy expensive designer brand clothing, and we take modest vacations (if we can afford one that year at all). We live like this because we pay ourselves FIRST. Retirement plans are funded by voluntary payroll deductions where the funds go directly into retirement accounts (this is above and beyond my employer-sponsored pension plan). We never even see the money. It's there, but we can't use it. We have friends who make less than we do, yet have bigger houses, drive new cars (financed of course), wear designer clothes, and take lavish vacations........all on the credit card. We know that they probably secretly poke fun at us for our lifestyle choices; however, at our current rate of saving, I'll retire on my 54th birthday. Mrs. 'Bravo will be 51. Not bad for a beat cop and a floor nurse. Our friends will die on the job and their kids' inheritance probably won't even pay off the creditors. It's all about priorities. Unfortunately, due to the acts of our government, I will probably have to support my kids well into adulthood. They, and likely my future grandchildren, are being sold into economic bondage by the government's reckless spending. Sure, they're doing it in the name of "compassion", but these "compassionate" congresscritters that are creating the financial slavery for future generations will be long-since dead by the time that the bill comes due, so what do they care? I can easily foresee a future for my kids with no jobs available and 60% taxation for those who do manage to find employment. Somehow I just don't think that this is what our Founders had in mind.

That's pretty much the approach my wife and I have chosen to take. My truck is a 1995, my wifes car is a 2002 that's been paid off since 2008. I remember when the car was paid off I was asking folks on here if it would make more sense to take the car payment money and put it into savings or pay down the mortgage. Couldn't believe how many members told me I'd just go buy a new car so why bother. That may have been what they would have done but not me. I chose to save the money and or make improvements in the home such as new gutters, energy efficient windows, etc.

We fully fund all of our 401K's as well as maintain an emergency fund equal to one years mortgage payments (as a minimum). We have cable but no premium channels. We have a basic home phone service mainly because we have a fax machine for work otherwise we would just go with our cells and drop the home phone. All long distance calls are via cell. We pay 90% of our bills online so we have almost no postage. Virtually all purchases are made via credit card which is paid in full each month.

Our goal is to retire on our own investments without social security. If we still have SS when we retire that will just be gravy. Our daugher is grown and her life is her responsibility and that of her husband not ours. My father is the only parent left alive and he and his wife are quite well set, again through proper planning.

The sad fact is that our lifestyle is the exception rather than the rule which is at the root of the problems in our society today. People look outward instead of inward for their existance and that is their downfall.

[Charliebravo]

Our goal is to retire on our own investments without social security. If we still have SS when we retire that will just be gravy.A couple of our aforementioned friends, with the new cars, new bikes, nice clothes, and the accompanying credit card debt, made the statement a few months ago that he and his wife "don't have shit saved for retirement other than Social Security." They're SCREWED! Well, the guy continued his education and got a better paying job. Did they decide to pay off debt? Fund retirement plans and play catch-up on saving? Nope. As soon as he got his new job, which was only a fairly modest raise in pay, they went new house shopping. Nice folks, but they're financial idiots.......much like the rest of the sheep surrounding us. If people want to be idiots and blow every penny they have the day they get it, that's their business. Just don't be telling me that I should pick up the tab for their health care, retirement, and their kids' education.

As for SS, I have opted out, so I don't pay into that worthless Ponzi scheme anyway. Mrs. 'Bravo can't opt out, so that's 7% of her salary down the shitter. We just compensate by increasing our savings. If it's there when she's 65, fine, it's just gravy. If not, which I suspect will be the case, we'll be fine without it thanks to my stellar financial planning.

[CigarGuy]

Never owned a credit card and never will. Thats one of my ways of not getting neck deep in hardship.

So it doesn't suck to NOT live beyond your means? You're not an American, are you?! ;)

[O.S.O.K.]

OK, this thread is too long for me to read or even scan most of it - do see the usual flame wars, etc... but I thought I'd drop my 2 cents on the OP...

1) If you work, you pay into unemployment - at least I do. So I see no problem making a claim if you are put out of work and need to pay the bills - this is supposed to be like insurance - so it's like making an insurance claim. It is not supposed to be welfare.
2) It is supposed to give you a chance to get out and find some new source of income. It is not and was never intended to be an ongoing welfare program and should not be turned into one.
3) 99 weeks is plenty of time to figure out what you're going to do...

Now, I do agree with the sentiment that other programs with perpetual government tit-suckers should be not cut, but eliminated entirely before any funding for unemployment is touched. They can get a job if they want to continue eating.

After all, we are talking about people that want to work but can't find a job with enough income to pay their bills.

But in the end, if you can't find an adequate job in your area you need to take action... move to a better area, start a small business or take an inadequate job or two until you can find a better one - after the 99 weeks.

I will also say that I think we should immedidately discontinue all foriegn aid - period. And then take this money and apply it to make sure the unemployment programs remain funded - again, for the 99 weeks only. The remainder can be put into small business loan programs - with help in getting started -business plans, etc. There are many retired business people that would be happy to dontate time in helping others get started with a small business - restaurant, packaged mail service, cleaning service, tree removal, lawn care, personal shopper, in-home eldgerly assistance, etc. =- there are all kinds of opportunities for people that are willing to work.

Now some are going to say "but I'll lose my house, etc.". I know, and this really does suck = if you can't even sell your house for what you owe on it... - so lose the house, file for bankrupcy and move to an area with decent jobs and start over. You will be better-off in the long run. And you will be better off doing everything with cash...

I'm just saying what I would personally do in the situation.

I've been through some tough times - I graduated from college in 1983 - and there were no "decent" jobs available = none. We lived in a crappy appartment complex (converted motel) and I took some shitty, low paying jobs and steadily worked my way up to the point that finally, about 4 years after I graduated, I was able to get the entry level sales job that I wanted to land out of school... and then I worked really hard - as I really appreciated the opportunity. My wife did the same.

"Just do it".

[JAMC]

In that case, the grandparents didn't plan properly for their retirement. Mrs. 'Bravo and I will NEVER be a financial burden to our children. We invest a shitload into our PRIVATE retirement accounts.
I did not specify that the dependence of the grandparents was financial. In the end it doesn't matter how much money an elderly person has stashed away - the dependency is physical, resulting from the decline of the person's physical abilities with old age. A retirement fund is just one manifestation of a claim on future resources by the current working generation - and that is what the physical dependency comes down to, a claim on future resources. It is not possible to purchase the food you'll eat when you're 85 years old today, because it has to be grown by a different generation at some point in the future and your claim to a proportion of what they produce has to be honoured if you're going to eat. Similarly, you can't purchase the healthcare you'll need in your old age today, not just medication but the help you'll need to perform simple tasks like washing, dressing and eating (social care). That last element, the claim on a future generation's skilled labour is the hardest to provide for in advance, financially speaking - particularly when the demographics suggest that the demand for labour of this kind will be huge and the supply limited because of the relative size of the generations.


Unfortunately, due to the acts of our government, I will probably have to support my kids well into adulthood.
The primary reasons for this are explained in this post (http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.php?4966-Well-they-cut-unemployment-benefits-last-night.&p=72105&viewfull=1#post72105). Yes the level of government borrowing is an issue, but the primary reason your children won't enjoy the same opportunities you did is because any attempts to preserve those opportunities by the current working generation(s) have been all but abandoned.

[CigarGuy]

[QUOTE=O.S.O.K.;72158]

1) If you work, you pay into unemployment - at least I do. So I see no problem making a claim if you are put out of work and need to pay the bills - this is supposed to be like insurance - so it's like making an insurance claim. It is not supposed to be welfare.

In Florida, the employER pays into unemployment, not the employEE. Not sure that it makes any diff in anyone's thinking.

[Solidus-snake]

So it doesn't suck to NOT live beyond your means? You're not an American, are you?! ;)


Nope, doesnt suck. If I cant afford it by saving, I wont buy it. And im a happy camper, may not have too many toys but still happy.

B.O.T I dont really see someone not being able to find a job within, what is it 99 days? I agree that the benefits have to stop at some point lest it turn into welfare or what have you. I was just pointing out the callousness of some.

As for sitting atop a high perch snubbing your nose at anyone who takes a month of unemployment while looking for a job... I pay taxes , quite a bit if i might add, so I see nothing wrong with getting a little of that money back. And also, after drawing so much unemployment, it does a real number on how much you get back at tax time.

[Schuetzenman]

I originally posted this elsewhere, but I think it needs to be added to this discussion in response to your assertion that higher tax rates for high earners are based purely on class envy, and that tax cuts for the rich lead to better economic conditions for the poor - neither of which is true....
This is the only way to ensure that the ladder of prosperity isn't pulled up out of reach of the next generation, and that each individual stands a moderate chance of succeeding by their own efforts, regardless of the circumstances of their birth.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Spoken like a true Socialist living in a country still headed up by Royals! LMAO!

[aliceinchains]

Spoken like a true Socialist living in a country still headed up by Royals! LMAO!




Your right Schuetz . Spoken like :hitler:

[crapshoot]

No, I am not whining about it. I trying to set an ASSHOLE like you straight who think people on unenployment are freeloaders. You need to grow up or STFU before opening your mouth about things you know nothing about except from the other side of the keyboard. Mr "I am a Gunsnet member since 1999".

Did you ever think that maybe you got laid off from your jobs because you fucking suck? Your probably one of those lazy assholes that fuck up making coffee at the Uni-Mart.

Maybe you should work on learning how not to be a total piece of shit?

[Nashorn]

Did you ever think that maybe you got laid off from your jobs because you fucking suck? Your probably one of those lazy assholes that fuck up making coffee at the Uni-Mart.

Maybe you should work on learning how not to be a total piece of shit?

Did you ever think your "Mother"sucks , MY COCK you worthlass piece of shit.

[Nashorn]

"Can't" and "Won't" are words the unemployed should never use.

Add to that I can tell you for a fact that for the last 3 years every UPS, FedEx, Target, Wal Mart, Macy's JC Penny, and every other major retailer have been hiring from October-December and there's the chance for at least temporary employment. McDonald's is always hiring.

When dealing with those unemployed for more than a year one generally sees that it's not a "Lack of jobs" that keeps them from working, but a "lack of jobs [that they want]".

As to relocation, illegal and legal immigrants do it all the time. Many of our grandparents did so as well. If you're not willing to do whatever it takes to get a job, then you do deserve to starve. You certainly have no right to call yourself a man or demand of others to pay your way.

I would rather take your money by servicing your wife than flip burgers, and guess what, she would like it.

[yankeedog]

I would rather take your money by servicing your wife than flip burgers, and guess what, she would like it.
You could also "service" his father, but I guess thats another one of those "can't and won't" deals that keeps you on welfare instead of working a job and paying taxes to keep America from a another recession?
Sure its easy to stay on unemplyment and make $300 verses work for it but people need to man up and do the responsible thing and work for the money and get off the goverment tit.

[Lysander]

I would rather take your money by servicing your wife than flip burgers, and guess what, she would like it.

Nah, you're not her type. My girl likes Men.

[MOP]

Welfare should be reduced 20% each time.

This way, the poor bastErds can see it coming ...

... and plan a bit ahead.

Cutting it off right away will result in chaos + anarchy !

1/5th each time every third month ... -1/5 ... -1/5 ... -1/5

[Lysander]

... and plan a bit ahead.


In most cases if they were capable of planning ahead they wouldn't be on UP for 2 years.

[Cypher]

Lets face it if your part of the working rich you already pay more then everyone else, alot more. Granted if talking the trust fund rich they pay a much smaller percentage in relation to their lifestyle but they still pay something. I would think if there is any effort to "soak the rich" we should atleast target the ones not working (trust fund) VS the working class rich. Although if listing how I would target the various groups I would still put the nonworking institutionalized poor as the first target, then maybe the trust funders, I think we already hit the working classes of all types (rich and poor) enough.
Even people that inherited money pay much more in taxes than middle class tax payers on interest, spending, property taxes ect. It’s still not right to tax away someone’s wealth so their children can’t benefit from it. One of the main driving forces for me to make money now is to give my children a better life when I die, there is no way to justify taxing someone’s wealth when they die to the point the majority is taken by the government and given to people too lazy to get a job. Taking money from someone that inherits it is no different than walking into their house and taking something because it was given to them as a gift. Not aimed at you just saying.




Focus here on what I'm saying, these are not tax cuts for the rich. This is a maintaining of our current tax rates, the same ones we've been living with for 10 years. Taxing isn't the problem in the US, Spending by Congress IS! Time to cut the spending and then cut it some more. This country survived just fine for over 150 years with no permanante income tax on anybody. We need to get back to our roots of no income tax and the maintaing of what we already have is just a tiny step in that proper direction.
Exactly, the supposed tax cuts for the rich are not tax cuts and they also affect what I pay in taxes. Taxes going up $1000-$3000 a year for any normal family is going to be a substantial burden.



The McDonalds thing brings up another aspect of this whole problem - working at a net loss. I can only speak for the UK, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that a couple with two or three children both working at entry-level positions in McDonalds here would simply not be able to afford to live in this country. I know the cost of living is higher in Britain than it is in the US, but you'll have to tell me whether you think it's possible for a similar-sized family to get by on the entry-level McDonalds salary over there, but I'd be very skeptical about the prospect.
Maybe it’s different in the UK but in the USA unemployment maxes out at around $350 a week I believe and is based on what you made, hardly enough to pay my bills. Anyone can get a lower paying job as a last resort making at least $350 a week. Why should they continue claiming unemployment for 2 years because they don’t want to get a lower paying job that pays the same amount of money. Even with the damage obama and his little buddies have done to the economy there is a constant flow of lower paying jobs and even professional jobs available. If you have to move or travel temporarily to make ends meet then that is what you have to do, buck up and deal with it.



I originally posted this elsewhere, but I think it needs to be added to this discussion in response to your assertion that higher tax rates for high earners are based purely on class envy, and that tax cuts for the rich lead to better economic conditions for the poor - neither of which is true....

Apart from the obvious principle that those commanding the greatest slice of a nation's wealth should bare the greatest responsibility for funding it's communal or collective works, there is another powerful argument in favour of returning to the days of high tax rates for the wealthy - an argument that has only entered my concious mind in the last year or so.

Part of the problem with the Thatcherite ideology that dominated the closing years of the 20th century is that it has allowed social mobility, the idea that an individual may better their place in society by their own efforts, to collapse completely. The net result of abolishing the old upper tax rates has been the return of dickensian ascription with a vengeance. The root cause of this is that with no deeply progressive tax mechanism it has become far too easy for those that are already wealthy to keep hold of their wealth - to rest on their laurels.

Our society requires no further effort or contribution to the common good from the super-rich in order to justify their continued place at the pinnacle of our social hierarchy, and as such the primary focus of the super rich shifts away from the activity that produced wealth in the first place, but instead to wealth preservation and wealth management. Allowing the super-rich to retain their wealth more easily has not produced a greater net outcome for society as a whole because the additional resources available to the super-rich are invariably diverted towards the task of preserving the social position the individual has attained.

Social mobility as a concept depends on the basic principle that every individual's place in the social hierarchy can be justified by their immediate contribution or worth (however you choose to define it), and that those occupying the scant, elite positions at the top may not be permitted to rest on their past accomplishments in order to retain their position. In short, in a truly meritocratic system must be blinkered to past accomplishments, and an individual wishing to reach the top must be more than briefly brilliant - they must be consistently brilliant in order to stay there. This is the only way to ensure that the ladder of prosperity isn't pulled up out of reach of the next generation, and that each individual stands a moderate chance of succeeding by their own efforts, regardless of the circumstances of their birth.

There is one small problem with this, IT DOESN’T WORK. How many real life examples do we need to prove that socialism/communism is a failed government system and not only is it immoral but it simply doesn’t work and it will never work. Why do people like you support a system that does nothing but empower elite government officials and enslave the population, assuming you are a simple peon and not part of the government elite that is. Or maybe you’re a peon that THINKS you are part of the elite.



[QUOTE=O.S.O.K.;72158]

1) If you work, you pay into unemployment - at least I do. So I see no problem making a claim if you are put out of work and need to pay the bills - this is supposed to be like insurance - so it's like making an insurance claim. It is not supposed to be welfare.

In Florida, the employER pays into unemployment, not the employEE. Not sure that it makes any diff in anyone's thinking.

I don’t think the issue is people claiming unemployment. The issue is unemployment being extended for 99 weeks. 6 months or whatever is fine IMO but 99 weeks is crazy. Think about it, living for 2 years off the government tit when someone without a doubt could find an equal paying job in much less time, if obama has his way maybe it will be impossible after the next two years, lol.



Spoken like a true Socialist living in a country still headed up by Royals! LMAO!
It never ceases to amaze me how brain washed and idiotic these people can be. I just don’t get it, maybe it would be easier to understand what’s wrong with them if I grew up in a socialist crap hole like they did, although that doesn’t explain the people in the USA that feel the same way.

I think part of the problem with people like this is they just don’t get the freedom and sense of responsibility that a lot of Americans understand and experience. Or maybe they do and they act like that out of sheer jealousy.

[mriddick]

Even people that inherited money pay much more in taxes than middle class tax payers on interest, spending, property taxes ect. It’s still not right to tax away someone’s wealth so their children can’t benefit from it. One of the main driving forces for me to make money now is to give my children a better life when I die, there is no way to justify taxing someone’s wealth when they die to the point the majority is taken by the government and given to people too lazy to get a job. Taking money from someone that inherits it is no different than walking into their house and taking something because it was given to them as a gift. Not aimed at you just saying.

Truthfully the way I've seen trusts go people normally don't pay taxes anywhere near the same rate as workers. It's very easy to live like a millionare and pay like a middle class family. I think back when Ted Kennedy was alive there was an article about his life style, he paid taxes like someone who made $125,000 but lived the lifestyle of a guy worth abuot 8 billion (or something like that). My belief is all people need a stake in taxes and how they are collected, this goes for the trust fund rich or the poor, I think everyone needs a connection to what services they get from the gov't and the amount of taxes they pay. It's when people at both ends lose this connection they also lose any desire to lower taxes. I believe one reason you'll hear some very rich people talk as if they wouldn't mind paying more (think of Warren Buffet talking about his and his secretary's taxes) is solely because they have been abled to shelter away so much wealth they have a true disconnect between what they earn and what they pay.

[Cypher]

Truthfully the way I've seen trusts go people normally don't pay taxes anywhere near the same rate as workers. It's very easy to live like a millionare and pay like a middle class family. I think back when Ted Kennedy was alive there was an article about his life style, he paid taxes like someone who made $125,000 but lived the lifestyle of a guy worth abuot 8 billion (or something like that). My belief is all people need a stake in taxes and how they are collected, this goes for the trust fund rich or the poor, I think everyone needs a connection to what services they get from the gov't and the amount of taxes they pay. It's when people at both ends lose this connection they also lose any desire to lower taxes. I believe one reason you'll hear some very rich people talk as if they wouldn't mind paying more (think of Warren Buffet talking about his and his secretary's taxes) is solely because they have been abled to shelter away so much wealth they have a true disconnect between what they earn and what they pay.

If someone has a trust fund and they take money out, like living expenses or whatever, isn't it taxed as income? The interest is taxed also at some point like a mutual fund. It shouldn't be taxed any heavier than someone living off a mutual fund or some type of retirement fund.

[mriddick]

If someone has a trust fund and they take money out, like living expenses or whatever, isn't it taxed as income? The interest is taxed also at some point like a mutual fund. It shouldn't be taxed any heavier than someone living off a mutual fund or some type of retirement fund.

The trust can pay for almost all living expenses, the house, the car, utilities, upkeep, taxes, etc... can all be paid by the fund. Even the money the trust makes can be rolled back into the trust reducing that tax bite (they often times do not pay the full amount of capital gains). I don't think you can equate someone taking out spending money and having to pay taxes on it VS someone who has to live and pay all expenses through a retirement account. As I stated back on the old site there was a thread dealing with ol'Ted, he paid taxes like a guy making $125,000 but in order to live his lifestyle (live in the houses, the vacations, the jets, etc...) you or me would have to be worth something on the order of 8 billion. To me it's no wonder Ted thought we all should be liberal thinkers and pay more in taxes, afterall he had no real connection to what he paid and what he got in return from the gov't. One of the biggest liberals I know gets $300,000 grand a year from the gov't, pays almost no tax (not even sales tax) and will go on for hours about how you and I should "give" more.

I've never met a guy who earned his wealth ever really claim to be a hard core socialist type liberal, trust fund babies I've met on the other hand are almost always are and that is no accident. To me the engine of society is the private sector, it trumps the public workers, those at the bottom who don't work or those at the top who write the laws to benefit themselves. If it comes down to a progressive style tax rate (and it does) then I think it needs to reach lower and higher of the chain and stop trying to get all it's wealth from the workers in the middle. As I stated I think many times we confuse the working rich who pay alot in taxes and the sheltered rich who pay very little. When the left wants to point to the excesses of the rich (say when Warren buffet talks of paying less in taxes then his secretary) they use the sheltered rich (himself) as the example. when the right wants to point out how much the rich pay, they use examples of the working rich who pay ungodly amounts in taxes. To me it's simply time we separate the sheltered rich from the workers.

[Cypher]

The trust can pay for almost all living expenses, the house, the car, utilities, upkeep, taxes, etc... can all be paid by the fund. Even the money the trust makes can be rolled back into the trust reducing that tax bite (they often times do not pay the full amount of capital gains). I don't think you can equate someone taking out spending money and having to pay taxes on it VS someone who has to live and pay all expenses through a retirement account. As I stated back on the old site there was a thread dealing with ol'Ted, he paid taxes like a guy making $125,000 but in order to live his lifestyle (live in the houses, the vacations, the jets, etc...) you or me would have to be worth something on the order of 8 billion. To me it's no wonder Ted thought we all should be liberal thinkers and pay more in taxes, afterall he had no real connection to what he paid and what he got in return from the gov't. One of the biggest liberals I know gets $300,000 grand a year from the gov't, pays almost no tax (not even sales tax) and will go on for hours about how you and I should "give" more.

I've never met a guy who earned his wealth ever really claim to be a hard core socialist type liberal, trust fund babies I've met on the other hand are almost always are and that is no accident. To me the engine of society is the private sector, it trumps the public workers, those at the bottom who don't work or those at the top who write the laws to benefit themselves. If it comes down to a progressive style tax rate (and it does) then I think it needs to reach lower and higher of the chain and stop trying to get all it's wealth from the workers in the middle. As I stated I think many times we confuse the working rich who pay alot in taxes and the sheltered rich who pay very little. When the left wants to point to the excesses of the rich (say when Warren buffet talks of paying less in taxes then his secretary) they use the sheltered rich (himself) as the example. when the right wants to point out how much the rich pay, they use examples of the working rich who pay ungodly amounts in taxes. To me it's simply time we separate the sheltered rich from the workers.

I see what your saying but if the trust fund pays for living expenses wouldn't it be removed from the trust fund and then taxed like income? Or are you saying it can pay all the bills without any additional taxes being taken out?

[mriddick]

I see what your saying but if the trust fund pays for living expenses wouldn't it be removed from the trust fund and then taxed like income? Or are you saying it can pay all the bills without any additional taxes being taken out?
I believe (and I'm not a trust fund baby, only my grandsons are) the trust pays capital gains on the interest earned on the withdrawls, that is if those that are not sheltered as well. If I'm not mistaken it would be like paying 28% on the interest part of a withdrawl (if the estate claims 2% growth and you withdraw $102, they pay 28% of the $2 gain, the $100 is not taxed). I'm quite sure all the other expenses are sheltered away as well, such as leasing the house from the estate and so on. Trust me up close and personal it's amazing what can be sheltered if you have the money and lawyers to do so, it's almost as if rich lawyer types wrote the laws to benefit their own kind ;)

When people most often times think of the super wealthy who pay little in taxes and beat the system they are thinking of those who live off of money sheltered away, when it actually comes down to Congress taxing the rich it's the guy starting businesses and hiring people, I'm just saying if one group is getting hit with close to 50% of everything they make as taxable then the other group ought to be hit at the same rate. People who work for a living don't run run Congress and write the laws, those who have idle time often times do and when it comes to writing laws they make sure they aren't impacted (and that includes the idle poor as well as the idle rich). There should not be one group writing the laws and basically tax exempting themselves from what they put on the rest of us, and again that applies to both ends of the spectrum.

My contention is if we all have to pay taxes (and I think we do) it ought to as fairly distributed across the board as possible to reduce that burden as much as possible on everyone. We should also have a system where everyone has some interest in how the system is composed and dealt out amongst the population. No one should live so unattached to the system that they have no care for those actually paying. We see this on both ends, the poor who get 90% of what the middle class does without working for it (one reason the poor will not work) and the sheltered rich who feel since they live in a socialist utopia it must be the way to go for everyone.

[Cypher]

I believe (and I'm not a trust fund baby, only my grandsons are) the trust pays capital gains on the interest earned on the withdrawls, that is if those that are not sheltered as well. If I'm not mistaken it would be like paying 28% on the interest part of a withdrawl (if the estate claims 2% growth and you withdraw $102, they pay 28% of the $2 gain, the $100 is not taxed). I'm quite sure all the other expenses are sheltered away as well, such as leasing the house from the estate and so on. Trust me up close and personal it's amazing what can be sheltered if you have the money and lawyers to do so, it's almost as if rich lawyer types wrote the laws to benefit their own kind ;)

When people most often times think of the super wealthy who pay little in taxes and beat the system they are thinking of those who live off of money sheltered away, when it actually comes down to Congress taxing the rich it's the guy starting businesses and hiring people, I'm just saying if one group is getting hit with close to 50% of everything they make as taxable then the other group ought to be hit at the same rate. People who work for a living don't run run Congress and write the laws, those who have idle time often times do and when it comes to writing laws they make sure they aren't impacted (and that includes the idle poor as well as the idle rich). There should not be one group writing the laws and basically tax exempting themselves from what they put on the rest of us, and again that applies to both ends of the spectrum.

My contention is if we all have to pay taxes (and I think we do) it ought to as fairly distributed across the board as possible to reduce that burden as much as possible on everyone. We should also have a system where everyone has some interest in how the system is composed and dealt out amongst the population. No one should live so unattached to the system that they have no care for those actually paying. We see this on both ends, the poor who get 90% of what the middle class does without working for it (one reason the poor will not work) and the sheltered rich who feel since they live in a socialist utopia it must be the way to go for everyone.

The sad thing is the vast majority of wealthy people worked for it and yet they try to use the people that inherit money as an example of the "evil rich people".

[Rifleman762nato]

And it sounds like you supported NAFTA and the EPA and the sierra club and all the other socialist plans to eliminate any industry in America while cheering on 37 million wetbacks coming here and live off of us for free while sucking our social services dry. You act like the wealthy are some kind of enemy class enemy. THAT is of course right out of the communist manifesto. You want us to pay higher taxes? For what? To fund more socialism? You left wing socialists are to blame for every problem ass fucking Amerika today. You refuse to allow the Fed to be regulated. You refuse to allow lower cooperate taxes for industry, you insist on an EPA that drives employers out of the country, you insist on sucking every union's cock, you dimokrats have nationalized the auto industry and given 30% of GM to the fucking autoworkers....so that the workers can own the tools of production....everything you "we gotta pay more taxes" loons touch, turns to shit. People like you could never even run a fucking lemonade stand...unless you received a government subsidy. Just keep banging your fist in mommies basement...eventualy communism will win and we will all be slaves to marxism.




God Damn, I've been gone WAY too long from here!! Bubagun, I love you man!!!! I couldnt agree more!

[JAMC]

Spoken like a true Socialist living in a country still headed up by Royals! LMAO!


Your right Schuetz . Spoken like :hitler:

How about both of you try attacking the arguments instead of attacking me personally - then you might make some headway. Just a suggestion.

[O.S.O.K.]

The trust fund situation is exactly why I am an ardent supporter of a fair tax system. A national sales tax that no one, absolutely no one is exempt from. You buy something - anything, you pay the tax. Everybody is a taxpayer and therefore, everybody has a stake in what the rate is and what is done with the money.

That is what America was supposed to be. That is what our Founding Fathers (God rest their souls) built into the Constitution.

The greatest generation allowed the fucking marxists to establish an income tax. They also allowed the creation of the reserve banking system.

The greatest generation fought WWII and many died to save our country from facism. But they made a lot of really bad mistakes too.

Now, it is up to us - the baby boomers and generation X to set it right.

[crapshoot]

Did you ever think your "Mother"sucks , MY COCK you worthlass piece of shit.

Aww, look who got their little feelers hurt.

[Blacksmith]

You could also "service" his father, but I guess thats another one of those "can't and won't" deals that keeps you on welfare instead of working a job and paying taxes to keep America from a another recession?

Damn :lool:

[ubersoldate]

Really, Pay thousanda of dollars to move when you don"t have a job or steady income. What Wonderland do you live in.you my friend are totally clueless or an idiot. And by the way I have 12 weeks left on my 26 week claim thats 6 months for you collage grads. And no I won't be recieving 99 weeks so sleep well.

Yes.
Its the American way. When your job goes out the window, and you dont think you can live in the same city unless you have to take welfare or unemployment then pack your things and follow the work. That or move to where family are.

Thats what I just did, and I took a part time job that pays half of what my last one did, but Im working. Things will change, we have to tighten the belt up, but it will turn around.
I dont think that anyone should recieve unemployment for 99 weeks.
Get out and take a job at a Mcdonalds or something.
PRIDE has made alot of people line up in the handout generation.
In the old days, people wanted to eat more than they wanted to keep their social status.
Good luck to you.

[Solidus-snake]

Yes.
Its the American way. When your job goes out the window, and you dont think you can live in the same city unless you have to take welfare or unemployment then pack your things and follow the work. That or move to where family are.

Thats what I just did, and I took a part time job that pays half of what my last one did, but Im working. Things will change, we have to tighten the belt up, but it will turn around.
I dont think that anyone should recieve unemployment for 99 weeks.
Get out and take a job at a Mcdonalds or something.
PRIDE has made alot of people line up in the handout generation.
In the old days, people wanted to eat more than they wanted to keep their social status.
Good luck to you.

Do you have a wife and kids?

What about while your waiting for your house to sell?

I'm not defending having unemployment for 99 weeks as that is preposterous. I just have a hard time grasping the idea of selling your home and moving your family for the sake of continuing to pay taxes and PRIDE keeping you from accepting help from the gov. This is mostly aimed at the types who think we shouldn't have any social benefits at all.

I know, no fast food places in my town will even give out applications.

[ubersoldate]

Do you have a wife and kids?

What about while your waiting for your house to sell?

I'm not defending having unemployment for 99 weeks as that is preposterous. I just have a hard time grasping the idea of selling your home and moving your family for the sake of continuing to pay taxes and PRIDE keeping you from accepting help from the gov. This is mostly aimed at the types who think we shouldn't have any social benefits at all.

I know, no fast food places in my town will even give out applications.

I have a wife and two sons.
Pride is an issue I guess, but I dont want anything from anyone. I had to swallow alot of pride to accept the government health care for my family untill june, when my company bennys kick in. I have young children who have to have medical care. They offered it, and we took it.
But the wife and I have decided to NOT use it unless we do not have a choice. So the kids get their check ups, but thats it, wife and I suffer!
I would like to add, they also offered foodstamps and cash assistance as well, that we turned down.

We had to make a choice, it was to get out of Phoenix when the business was seriously taking a dive ( I was a contractor who owned my own business ).
It was far more exspensive to live out there for us. Not counting the fact we were in a major city with its crime and other negative issues.
So we sold off my two fun trucks, went to one car, spent our savings, sold some guns, some guitars and amps, and moved to the mountains in California.
Traded a town of 4million for a town of 2500.
Not contracting for work anymore except for small handyman jobs when I can, but we have no credit cards, no student loans, and except for a few small medical bills that are being paid off slowly we are somewhat debt free.
We own this home we live in, but stuck so much in on the down, and bought a fixer upper, that we have low payments.
I work for a hardware chain now, for wages I would have never worked for in Phoenix, but it barely pays the bills but it will change, it will pick up again.

Seems so many are about getting ready for a shtf, or economic collapse by stocking weapons and ammo, we just decided to do it the old fashion way instead.

And although after a day at work, I sit on my porch and think about some the great trucks and toys I owned in Phoenix compared to now, but in the end, I am blessed to see my family with good health, being raised in the way I want to raise them in our own house on our own land.

As for jobs, no one is doing paper apps anymore. Its all online.
Even in this economy, if you want to work there are jobs out there, but one has to WANT to work.
There is no way anyone in this country can tell me, that if they spent 8 hours a day looking for work, 6 days a week, that they cant find SOMETHING.
People get in bad times and have to use unemployment, that is why its there, but someone complaining that 99 weeks isnt enough time for them to find work should be arrested.
Disgusting how many people are hardworking, struggling along but doing it, to have people pulling that..

[O.S.O.K.]

Uber = another case in point example of taking personal responsibility. THAT is what this is all about.

The government - any government is not properly a source of any support for the citizenry. When it is, even just a little to start with, it spreads like the cancer that it is. Yes, you hold your nose and use it if push comes to shove, but you end it at the earliest opportunity and move on and regret the experience. That is, if you have any pride.

The concepts here are very basic, very much a function of reality (that is to say, human nature) and often the hardest immediate road to take.

4 years ago, I was canned from my job. It was bullshit - the prick that did it was demoted a few months after he did this to me and a couple others - trying to save his job. I decided to try and start a business. That didn't go as desired and I didn't have anything solid to ensure that I could pay the bills going forward. So my wife and I decided to sell our place (a really nice place on 20 acres - had my own shooting range... was awsome) and then moved in town and basically started over in a less expensive place. A year after I lost the other job I got the one I presently have and I've working hard to make it work - in the face of a lot of challenges, not the least of which is the economy and the damned oil spill that killed business in our home market. We remodled the little house and it is now a very nice place.

I have no simpathy for whiners. People that have every reason that they CAN'T do things. Assess your situation, gather your options and make a move. MAN up and do what you need to do. That doesn't include crying in your free government milk about it going away.

And as far as the brits coming on here trying to tell us how do things - from the vantage point of a complete failure of a society, I just have to laugh. They really are clueless.
And apparently not very well informed given recent posts showing that they are working off of their long history being spoon fed propaganda.

[Joey]

And as far as the brits coming on here trying to tell us how do things...

No one's telling you to do anything sir! We're involved in the free exchange of ideas, opinions, experiences, on the internet between people a few miles apart - this lovely planet of ours is mighty small really. It's one of the joys of the internet and an entirely innocent activity.

[O.S.O.K.]

Joey, read this:
What I don't understand about this issue in the US is why so many have such a hard time grasping the concept that it's entirely possible (probable even during the current economic slump) that an individual made redundant or unemployed because of circumstances beyond their control would be genuinely unable to find another job within a period of 99 weeks without effectively liquidating their entire lives and moving to China, where there's no shortage of demand for labour.

This is what happens in times of economic turmoil - the economy spits people out that it's no longer prepared to sustain, then closes ranks. Here's an article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11894634) from our side of the ocean about your current dilemma. It is completely unfathomable to me how you can argue the case that those genuinely unable to find work (as opposed to those that are simply unwilling) for any number of reasons should only be supported until an arbitrary time period has elapsed.

If there's no jobs where you live, and you can't move because you either can't sell your house or you've got dependents to consider, what are you supposed to do? Starve?

This is an example - there are more - like when you tell us how blood thirsty we are because we have the right to bear arms (God-given right) protected under our constitution. (or was that Syph?)

The whole experience and mindset is unable to fathom being personally responsible, having a can-do attitude and overcomeing adversity. Instead, the argument is for the motherland to open her blouse and give the milk. The insinuation is that it's either accept the milk or starve. NOT!

That's what I'm talking about. You have been brainwashed into being the perfect peasants. So much so that you defend it to the nth!

[Joey]

I take your point sir. Yankee individualism, self-reliance, personal responsibility, get-up-and-go-there's-no-such-thing-as-a-free-lunch attitudes are admirable. You'll have no argument from me (http://politicsworldwide.com/journal/gun-nuts-daily-mail-readers/).

On the "bloodthirsty" point, sorry sir, but you're being over-sensitive (nothing wrong with that). Check my posts. Check JAMC's. No insults about "blood." Maybe it was Sylph, but I doubt it. He's a lovely trainee sawbones, as gentle as the day is long!

I'm very well aware that beneath the "full auto magnum 6.72 mm full metal jacket" Gun Nut chest-beating, most Gunsnet members are decent guys who, once you have their respect, would give you the shirts off their backs - in an entirely non-homo fashion natch!

There's nothing wrong with a clash of cultures. It's healthy, fun and intellectually stimulating. It's what our great nations are built on.

Man up sir! Stop moaning! Enjoy yourself! Happy New Year!

[O.S.O.K.]

"full auto magnum 6.72 mm full metal jacket"

What?

It was syph, I'm pretty sure. I think it was in the thread where he was talking about the smell of buckshot or some silly assed thing...

[AKTexas]

What?

It was syph, I'm pretty sure. I think it was in the thread where he was talking about the smell of buckshot or some silly assed thing...

Come on OSOK...You know 6.72mm FMJ...That is the bullet that took down the red baron.

[Joey]

What?

Limey sense of humour!


It was syph, I'm pretty sure. I think it was in the thread where he was talking about the smell of buckshot or some silly assed thing...

Well, Syph can look after himself. He's a good bloke and will argue his corner.

[Mr. Rodgers]

Limey sense of humour!



Well, Syph can look after himself. He's a good bloke and will argue his corner.
On behalf of the American people please accept an apology for all the insults, lack of humor and Americanism directed to our U.K. friends. Obama, Bush and Tony Blair said to say hello.

[crapshoot]

Anyone who wants a job can have a job if they are not too damn lazy to work. I live in the state with one of the worst, if not the worst unemployment in the nation. We've been trying to hire two apprentices and a journeyman technician for 3 months now and not one single application.

Can't find a decent qualified journeyman to do the work and no kids are willing to work for a paycheck anymore to be an apprentice. A few people I know that I offered to train as my apprentice did not want to take a pay cut from what they are getting on the government tit of welfare.

[Joey]

On behalf of the American people please accept an apology for all the insults, lack of humor and Americanism directed to our U.K. friends. Obama, Bush and Tony Blair said to say hello.

Apology accepted.

cc Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld & the other freedum lovin' torturers who've yet to have their collars felt by the Hague Tribunal (and Obama's let off scott free)

[Congo]

I can't figure out where the 99 weeks comes from everyone keep talking about as I was unemployed for 52 weeks, extended 4 or five times after each time it ran out. Now it's "exhausted" as of august 2010.

Funny thing was I went to a "long term unemployed" meeting setup by the govt and as I looked around, they were all in their late 40s, or 50s and 60s. Dumbasses showed up in "professional attire" like it meant anything. They're hozed and nothing can be done about them other than for everyone to wait for them to fall off the radar and die quietly or something.

Out of them all, one guy seemed like he could have some skills that could still work in spite of his age. The rest were little more than plug and play office people or warehouse people. They need to die off I guess. Dumbasses, they bought into the con.

[Lysander]

I know, no fast food places in my town will even give out applications.


Then move. I can't imagine how anyone could justify staying in a place where even the fast food restaurants weren't hiring.

At the end of the day, as a Man, it is your duty to do whatever it takes to put food on the table and a roof over the heads of your family, short of stealing it from someone else (aka sucking the Government tit).

Lots of folks on this board and in this country's history have packed up and moved elsewhere; sometimes living under bridges. What makes "you" (general, not you specifically) so damned special that you get to sit at home and steal another man's earnings?

[Congo]

Glad you added that since I'd be one of those.
...
It's not from lack of trying but I've come to realize that my age keeps me out of a lot of prospects hell I got declined for a janator for Flying J truckstops.
Sorry you're going thru "the shit" of reality. Thank you for being honest and sharing. There are a lot of people that don't have a clue about a certain demographic.

If you've nothing better to do, shoot me an email: congoloid@hotmail.com

[Congo]

Some times you guys really say retarded shit ...
people do...from a different time/place. I think I myself am pretty high up there in staying stupid shit on the internet.
People have to truly be humbled and walk in the moccasins of others before they can not stand in judgement of another.
I've started learning things sept of 01 and almost a decade later, finally got it......

[Congo]

Every one bitching about not being able to get a job is simply not trying.
Please don't make such an ignorant proclamation. OK, make it, but hopefully others won't believe it.

[Congo]

I have never taken a dime of unemployment money & never will. I would rather live under a bridge in a Frigidaire box first, but that's just me, my 2 cents.

When I left my company job... Looking back 10 years later, best decision I ever made.

So, what was the economy 10 years ago like?
And what was the job market like 10 years ago for someone like you, your age ten years ago?

And compared to, say the last 104 months?

[Congo]

I know, no fast food places in my town will even give out applications.
Ok...but other than that. Heck, where I live, no fast food places employ americans anyway. they're too lazy I keep on hearing. and stupid.

[ubersoldate]

Please don't make such an ignorant proclamation. OK, make it, but hopefully others won't believe it.

I believe it as he does, as I was in the same city as him, and I owned my own company.
I would try everything to hire new people, good wage, alot of work, and the only people calling the adds were illegals.
Knew a ton of people who would rather sit on their ass and complain, collect government cheese, and NOT work.
You need more than a month to find a job, then you either arent looking, to ignorant to what employers want, or just to proud to work.
Granted you might just well be the odd one who does not fall into those groups, but from what Ive seen in two states in the last year, what interegrated says falls true.

[ubersoldate]

So, what was the economy 10 years ago like?
And what was the job market like 10 years ago for someone like you, your age ten years ago?

And compared to, say the last 104 months?

So what is the deal? Are you saying you are too old to have anyone to hire you?
Just wondering, I dont want to insult you, but the facts might help others see why you cant find a job.
Where are you at in the country? How long have you been unemployed?

[Congo]

Then move. I can't imagine how anyone could justify staying in a place where even the fast food restaurants weren't hiring.
Heck, why didn't I think of that?
Let's see, I can leave my wife and go somewhere to hopefully get a job for $10/hour. Really, I would.
I don't know how far this would go if I were living a state or two away and being fortunate enough to be able to get that fictionasl $10/hr.
It wouldn't be enough to pay a mortgage on a house we can't sell and set me up in an apartment while I look for work or actually can be fortunate enough to snag that job and live there.
I dunno...mebbe we could walk from a home we can't sell? Wife could declare bankruptcy later and move in with me if and when I find that $10/hr job somewhere and save enough money up to get an apartment.

I just think of all the jobs I could get if:
1. Fucking wetbacks woudln't have overrun this whole fucking state;
and
2. I weren't my age.

Both of those are fantasies....but we all can speculate on "if only...." and create reality off of that I guess.

[Congo]

I believe it as he does, as I was in the same city as him, and I owned my own company.
I can't speak for him, but will speak from my experience.
Not everyone has the same level of savings/disposable income to just pick up and move. I've seen pawnshops' tool collection increase greatly over the last 5 years and it's not business owners selling. It used to be in the trades a worker made enough to get by during the lean times, the late fall until next season. But no more. What I've seen is business owners hiring wetbacks for 1/3 of what americans used to get and at the end of the job, the business owners go on fishing, camping, hunting trips while the american workers start to pawn their tools or the mexicans go to other jobs or live with their women that are living in govt housing on govt aid getting government food...while they work for cash doing cleaning jobs of course.


I would try everything to hire new people, good wage, alot of work, and the only people calling the adds were illegals.
Then that was that market. The places I know of here either hired straight mexicans or young americans.
If you were open to hiring americans and ones above their 20s or 30s...or 40s or 50s, then props to you. You are the exception.


You need more than a month to find a job, then you either arent looking, to ignorant to what employers want, or just to proud to work.
...Granted you might just well be the odd one who does not fall into those groups
IMO there is a whole segment of "age challenged" people that fall into that easily profiled group everyone speak about, the government dole group.
And I am one of them.
But I saw all this coming a long time ago as I ran into the same thing in the "professional" sector in the 90s, so I spent about 10 years shoveling, pushing brooms, living in vans/hotels/storage units, as I did what I needed to do to be as independent as i could and still be able to stand on my own feet. What I saw in those "long term unemployed" groups are 40-60 year old people, taking notes, where to go, what to do to get different training, education, etc. No one is going to hire those dumbass "old people" for many reasons. The trip is, they prolly bought into the illusion. Now they're shit, in the way, deadbeats, dumbasses that are too lazy or can't work good/fast/cheap/long enough.

I think I'm going to be OK. But I don't have the responsibilities/liabilities others in the 40-60+ age bracket do. They're fucked and I guess need to fucking die off.

[Congo]

So what is the deal? Are you saying you are too old to have anyone to hire you?
yes. One interview in particular sticks in my noggin. I really thought I finally had a good shot. Over the phone I figured I was in the top handful of their 60 odd apps. I was the first one they called and during the interview realized they only called in 4 people, one didn't show, they were going to hire two to start work next week. So out of the three, they were going to hire 2. The other two didn't have the experience I did. During the interview the guy kept telling me how hard the work was. I didn't realize until later that nite he kept on trying to ask me how old I was w/o actually asking. He even said, "People we hire at this level we pay $10/hour so I don't think you'd be interested" and I replied, "I don't mind that as I am a hard worker and have always proved my value to employers".

This is the second job in that trade I've not gotten. Other jobs in other trades either ask up front or ask when applying your "age". I know the game as for production. I've even heard someone (an office fuck) refer to me as "the old fuck" when I got hurt doing the work of 2 people half my age.
I know the game and how it's played.

One job I applied for was a part time 10/hour job and when I sat down and talked with the owner, he said, "this job isn't for you, we need someone a lot lower on the food chain".
I told him I wasn't above doing any work and if and when things pick up, I can also do other jobs with the company, from installing to sales, to marketing, to, well, I could even run the place while if he wanted to take some time off, etc. all for the same part time sweeper wage". He laughed and agreed. Never heard back from him and didn't expect to. But visiting him and seeing what he was doing and how, I'm going to do the exact same thing on the side in the future as a component of my business. He was doing specialized built-ins.


I dont want to insult you, but the facts might help others see why you cant find a job.
Where are you at in the country? How long have you been unemployed?
In my 50s, in Denver and in construction for the last 15 years or so. I haven't had a job since september 2009.
But I'm the exception to my unemployed demographic now and have the means to move and take any accompanied hits, but we can use me as an example.

[Lysander]

I just think of all the jobs I could get if:
1. Fucking wetbacks woudln't have overrun this whole fucking state;
and
2. I weren't my age.

Both of those are fantasies....but we all can speculate on "if only...." and create reality off of that I guess.


So now it's not just "wetbacks" you blame, but your age also?

[DeadPool]

Heck, why didn't I think of that?
Let's see, I can leave my wife and go somewhere to hopefully get a job for $10/hour. Really, I would.
I don't know how far this would go if I were living a state or two away and being fortunate enough to be able to get that fictionasl $10/hr.
It wouldn't be enough to pay a mortgage on a house we can't sell and set me up in an apartment while I look for work or actually can be fortunate enough to snag that job and live there.
I dunno...mebbe we could walk from a home we can't sell? Wife could declare bankruptcy later and move in with me if and when I find that $10/hr job somewhere and save enough money up to get an apartment.

I just think of all the jobs I could get if:
1. Fucking wetbacks woudln't have overrun this whole fucking state;
and
2. I weren't my age.

Both of those are fantasies....but we all can speculate on "if only...." and create reality off of that I guess.

Oh thank God you said "wetbacks" and not "niggers" Cause if you used the "N" word you would have been swarmed upon like flies to a carcass. After all thats the only racist word in existance as far as most of america and this site are concerned.

[Blacksmith]

Oh thank God you said "wetbacks" and not "niggers" Cause if you used the "N" word you would have been swarmed upon like flies to a carcass. After all thats the only racist word in existance as far as most of america and this site are concerned.

Poor wittle sperm pool got his feelers hurt. :lool:

[Congo]

So now it's not just "wetbacks" you blame, but your age also?
no, I've always been aware of my age problem. But when there was enough work for everyone and anyone, wetbacks would get the work but so would americans, even old fuckers like me.

Nothing's changed.

[HDR]

A lot of skilled people who were never unemployed in decades hit the streets; so the unemployed aren't all freeloaders. Unfortunately our systems do more to support the freeloaders than those who have worked their whole lives.

The coup de'grace is a president who took 1.514 trillion dollars and promised unemployment would stay below 8% and 500,000 new jobs would be created each month. After 0bama failed as usual there isn't anymore money to do a damn thing.

[Solidus-snake]

Then move. I can't imagine how anyone could justify staying in a place where even the fast food restaurants weren't hiring.

At the end of the day, as a Man, it is your duty to do whatever it takes to put food on the table and a roof over the heads of your family, short of stealing it from someone else (aka sucking the Government tit).

Lots of folks on this board and in this country's history have packed up and moved elsewhere; sometimes living under bridges. What makes "you" (general, not you specifically) so damned special that you get to sit at home and steal another man's earnings?

Im employed at a job I really enjoy, blue collar job that keeps America running making auto parts. Im just saying that a year ago before I got this job, there was no work to be had. Personally I stay in this area because my whole family on both sides lives here, so were always willing to help each other out.

So does everyones logic about suckling the gov tit also apply to those whove been working, paying taxes all their lives, pumping money to Uncle Sam and now theyve hit hard times and have to get a little bit of it back? Im not defending the lazy POS's who wont work when work is obviously available, just those who sincerely cant find work and have bills rolling in.

I also wonder if any of you take into account the many times people have finally found a job, only to be let go due to company cut backs? Just because youve sold everything and moved 3 states away and found a job, doesnt necessarily mean that jobs gonna last very long in this shithole economy.

[Congo]

Oh thank God you said "wetbacks" and not "niggers" Cause if you used the "N" word you would have been swarmed upon like flies to a carcass.
I'm a lot more honest these days and finally realized and fully accepted that being "correct in speech" is just an extension of being "correct in thought".
The trip is, most of the time what I'm told I should "think" completely differs with the reality I reside in. This is sort of amusing to me these days.

A few weeks ago we took a road trip for a few weeks to another state. While there, we went to a home depot and as we went up and down the aisles, I noted no one is speaking spanish. I noted it out loud (that's the type guy I am) that "I like this place--it's not full of mexicans" and a couple walking by heard it and broke out laughing.

After our respite, we returned to denver, mexico and went to a home depot in denver, mexico and I made a comment on all the people speaking mexican spanish. It was clearly 50% or more of the people in the store, announcements were in english/spanish, etc.

So, someone from that first home depot I went to will judge me and my experience of the home depot I live by in denver, mexico.
They'll think I'm making shit up, I'm a whiner, I blame others, I'm an asshole, I'm a racist, etc.

Not that I care and sometimes I like it when people judge me as such. It goes to show how ignorant and arrogant they are.
Ain't that some funny shit? And they'll do it with such firm personal belief, grounded fully in their own reality of their own small area of our large country.

People that have known me a long time should have been able to see how I've changed. People that didn't know who I used to be are more than ready to proclaim me as "racist" or "lazy" or whatever they care to proclaim from their livingroom in some other part of the country. But I figure what the heck, people are people and they are just being who they are. Such is the nature of the strengths and frailties of humans.

[Solidus-snake]

+1 ^

[Lysander]

Im employed at a job I really enjoy, blue collar job that keeps America running making auto parts. Im just saying that a year ago before I got this job, there was no work to be had. Personally I stay in this area because my whole family on both sides lives here, so were always willing to help each other out.

Then I wouldn't bitch if you find yourself unemployed without job prospects.


So does everyones logic about suckling the gov tit also apply to those whove been working, paying taxes all their lives, pumping money to Uncle Sam and now theyve hit hard times and have to get a little bit of it back? Im not defending the lazy POS's who wont work when work is obviously available, just those who sincerely cant find work and have bills rolling in.

Yes. Stealing from someone else because someone stole from you does not make it right.


I also wonder if any of you take into account the many times people have finally found a job, only to be let go due to company cut backs? Just because youve sold everything and moved 3 states away and found a job, doesnt necessarily mean that jobs gonna last very long in this shithole economy.

Doing something beats doing nothing any day of the week. I can't think of one great person in history who achieved what they did by sitting around and bitching about stuff. Maybe you sell all your shit, move to another state, and make more money than you ever dreamed of in this "shithole economy" as well. Point is, we know exactly what the end result of no action is.

[Solidus-snake]

Then I wouldn't bitch if you find yourself unemployed without job prospects.



Yes. Stealing from someone else because someone stole from you does not make it right.



Doing something beats doing nothing any day of the week. I can't think of one great person in history who achieved what they did by sitting around and bitching about stuff. Maybe you sell all your shit, move to another state, and make more money than you ever dreamed of in this "shithole economy" as well. Point is, we know exactly what the end result of no action is.

Soo say the very real possibility occurs and the rubber mill I run pulls my arm into it and crushes all the bones in it before I can hit the E-stop. Well I am in the hospital and in therapy for months, therefore not working. Fuck me right? Let me and my family rot, because I clearly let my arm get pulled into the machine on purpose so I can suck the teat right?

Id really hate to see your vision of America.

[Lysander]

Soo say the very real possibility occurs and the rubber mill I run pulls my arm into it and crushes all the bones in it before I can hit the E-stop. Well I am in the hospital and in therapy for months, therefore not working. Fuck me right? Let me and my family rot, because I clearly let my arm get pulled into the machine on purpose so I can suck the teat right?

Id really hate to see your vision of America.


I would think that being smart and independent you'd have some savings put aside to cover yourself.

There I go again with that "personal responsibility" line.

[Solidus-snake]

Yeah you know how many thousands of dollars thatd cost? Cost of thereapy, doctors bills.. Do you have about 40-100 grand set back in savings?

Oh yeah, and a big no no to the gov for health benefits that might help one cover those outrageous bills right?

[Lysander]

Yeah you know how many thousands of dollars thatd cost? Cost of thereapy, doctors bills.. Do you have about 40-100 grand set back in savings?

I can tell you that in the last year I've spent over $20,000 personally in medical bills. I never once asked anyone for help, nor was any received.


Oh yeah, and a big no no to the gov for health benefits that might help one cover those outrageous bills right?

Ever stop to think that you should take responsibility for yourself instead of demanding others do it?

[Solidus-snake]

I dont demand it, I just wonder to myself how one can be all gung ho for taxes yet on the same page despise any gov aid at all.

Under this premise, shouldnt we NOT be paying taxes if we should not be able to get a bit of that tax money back?

[Lysander]

I dont demand it, I just wonder to myself how one can be all gung ho for taxes yet on the same page despise any gov aid at all.

I've never been "gung ho" about taxes and can't imagine how on this planet you ever arrived at that conclusion.


Under this premise, shouldnt we NOT be paying taxes if we should not be able to get a bit of that tax money back?

I would absolutely support you being able to withdraw every cent paid into Government programs (FICA) and not a penny more.

[Joey]

Soo say the very real possibility occurs and the rubber mill I run pulls my arm into it and crushes all the bones in it before I can hit the E-stop. Well I am in the hospital and in therapy for months, therefore not working. Fuck me right? Let me and my family rot, because I clearly let my arm get pulled into the machine on purpose so I can suck the teat right?

Id really hate to see your vision of America.

It's the sanctimonious moralising that makes me laugh. Everyone knows there's tons of pure chance-driven ill-fortune and injustice in life. Bad people win the lottery, good people get a cancer.

To punish someone for experiencing raw bad luck, to engage in finger-waving like some damn parson and moralising and telling them to 'pull their socks up' is mark of a brute and a bore.

It's also un-Christian and, funnily enough, it's often the Church-goers who engage in it. They're precisely the hypocrites Jesus threw from the Temple.

So we got their number 2,000 years ago. I'd argue they're unpatriotic and un-American. None of my nice Yankee friends in London would behave like that. If someone's down they do their best to lift them up.

[Lysander]

It's the sanctimonious moralising that makes me laugh. Everyone knows there's tons of pure chance-driven ill-fortune and injustice in life. Bad people win the lottery, good people get a cancer.

Hence why responsible adults put money aside for contingencies. I know, I know, you'd rather buy that shiny new LCD tv and have a smartphone and a T1 line to the house. The irresponsible should be left to the fruits of their labor.


To punish someone for experiencing raw bad luck, to engage in finger-waving like some damn parson and moralising and telling them to 'pull their socks up' is mark of a brute and a bore.

You mean telling some to take responsibility for their own lives instead of robbing others makes one a "brute and a bore"? Intriguing. Better to be that, I suppose, than a thief.


It's also un-Christian and, funnily enough, it's often the Church-goers who engage in it. They're precisely the hypocrites Jesus threw from the Temple.

So we got their number 2,000 years ago. I'd argue they're unpatriotic and un-American. None of my nice Yankee friends in London would behave like that. If someone's down they do their best to lift them up.

Is that why Conservatives generally outspend Socialists 3:1 when it comes to charitable donations?

[Solidus-snake]

I've never been "gung ho" about taxes and can't imagine how on this planet you ever arrived at that conclusion.



I would absolutely support you being able to withdraw every cent paid into Government programs (FICA) and not a penny more.

My apologies then, I assumed too much. See I just see it exactly like this, I pay the gov and therefore when you pay someone you expect at least your monies worth in return.

If I didnt pay any taxes to the gov, then of course I wouldnt expect a red cent in return.

[mriddick]

I've never been "gung ho" about taxes and can't imagine how on this planet you ever arrived at that conclusion.



I would absolutely support you being able to withdraw every cent paid into Government programs (FICA) and not a penny more.

Funny you wrote that, yesterday a friends house he was ranting about soon going on SSI and how he was never getting back all that money he paid in. As luck would have it he had his most recent letter detailing his payouts and how much he paid in. About a minute of math determined within 2.5 years he'd get back all he ever paid in. I had to do the same thing to my MIL 12 years ago when it was such a shame her husband died after 10 years of disability never to get back what he paid in (actually he got back everything within 2 years). She's still alive collecting that SSI...it's been quite a deal for her (and no wonder SSI is in trouble).

[Congo]

Soo say the very real possibility occurs and the rubber mill I run pulls my arm into it and crushes all the bones in it before I can hit the E-stop....Fuck me right?

There's a huge "reality gap" between the managerial/investor class and the working class so to speak (I do hate that last phrase tho).
The manager/investor class thinks that because someone doesn't have a good savings account, investments, and doesn't have a lot of after tax income, they think that person is "stupid" or "lazy" or "a mooch" or etc.

There's been quite a change in the mentality of the werkers, specifically the non-union american werker. It's been happening soon after nafta came into being and with all the jobs leaving and the labor coming in, it's gotten worse and worse each year. I don't know how this will all turn out--I have no idea, but the change that has been happening will continue to accelerate until we frizzle into nothing or explode into some other form. With all the money being sucked in by the govt and all the werker jobs diminishing/disappearing, what will become of that strata? The manager/investor class can't bear the burden of being the productive class so to speak. the only way to have some sort of function out of this is to have a VAT. Income tax won't support anything as fewer and fewer will be making enough money to cover the bills and they won't want to continue to forfeit more and more of their money to income tax to people they see as "stupid" and "lazy", sometimes real, sometimes fabricated.

[ubersoldate]

I also wonder if any of you take into account the many times people have finally found a job, only to be let go due to company cut backs? Just because youve sold everything and moved 3 states away and found a job, doesnt necessarily mean that jobs gonna last very long in this shithole economy.

No it doesnt mean its a forever job. But then again, personal responsibility means that one does what he has to do to feed his family, period.
I understand this is not a black and white situtaion, it never is, there is no line in the sand, but to me, in my experience, if you cannot find a job in ONE YEAR WHILE YOU ARE ON WELFARE THEN YOU ARENT LOOKING.
No matter the age. There is work, its not nice, its not awesome, but it gives some money untill something better comes.
Its the pride of people that keeps them from taking whatever is open.

I hope some of you who know me on here, KNOW that I dealt with the illegal situation first hand, they ran me out of business. I held on, and kept my employee's for almost two years, some months paying their wages when I made almost nothing, but in the end, I had to let it go and move on.
I took a job that pays far less, but Im working, and things will change.

If you are on my tax dollars for one year, and cant find work then you are either a liar, or you do not know how to GET a job.
Even more so when one of the posters here complained about a illegal problem and age keeping them from work.

All that blame and finger pointing to go towards oneself, especially when it comes time to eat and pay the bills.

Stop crying, suck it up, and go find a damn job. Over a year on umemployment, in a major city? People should be ashamed of themselves. You are the problem with this country and we all have to pay for you..

[Richard Simmons]

Soo say the very real possibility occurs and the rubber mill I run pulls my arm into it and crushes all the bones in it before I can hit the E-stop. Well I am in the hospital and in therapy for months, therefore not working. Fuck me right? Let me and my family rot, because I clearly let my arm get pulled into the machine on purpose so I can suck the teat right?

Id really hate to see your vision of America.

If it's a very real possibility have you looked into short and or long term disability insurance? If not, why? Of couse you'd be getting workers comp for a work related injury which might get you by or it might not. Anything can happen to anyone at any time, the point is if the government teat is your fall back position in the event of a mishap then your really leaving yourself and your family in a vulnerable position and that is 100% on you.

[O.S.O.K.]

You know all this makes me think of the illegals. All other things considered, you have to admit that the SOB's make many citizens look really bad when it comes to work ethic and attitude.

Now, I'm not referring to anyone in particular in this thread OK?

I'm just saying that I look at these people - they work hard, live very meagerly and often will do things like set up a taco van - an old used van that barely runs - often parking it next to a service station - probably for some cash rent to the owner and sell tacos out of this van.

I just can't help but respect the attitude and bootstrapping.

Do I think they should be here? Hell no! Do I think they should be rounded up and sent back south of the border? Hell yes! Do I hate reading that the fuckers put Uber out of his business? Man, I can't tell you... :mad:

But at the same time, they make all of the people that can't seem to see that they must act and do and get over the fact that they were screwed, just look bad.

All of you that can't find work - get the hell out of dodge - there are jobs in the country for the taking - good jobs. There's encarceration work in the west, truck drivers, welders, plumbers, etc., in the oil feilds in Wyoming IIRC. UPS was hiring - they may still be.

And then there are the small or micro businesses that you can start - think - what kind of skills or service can you provide that's in demand?

It's all in the attitude. We all complain -that's human nature, but at some point, one must act.

[Congo]

Hence why responsible adults put money aside for contingencies.
There you go again, preaching people aren't being "responsible" if they don't make enough money.
My BIL works so many jobs (1 FT and 3 PT) my sis only sees him on the weekends.....when he's working on project in his basement to sell--I guess that's his 4th job. At the end of each month, he doesn't have a dime leftover and he doesn't have much.

My brother is older than I and has little more than change leftover at the end of the month also. He has a disability and is grateful he still has his job as a landscaper, especially considering the place down the street from him fired all the americans and hired replacement wetbacks for $8/hour, no bennies. Each year he tells his boss he's willing to take a pay cut if need be. If he loses his job due to wetbacks, I don't know what he'll do. Know of anyone hiring 60 year old landscapers? What's the wage?

My sister cleaned rooms for about 10 years to work her way up the foodchain at a resort to working "manager". The only reason she wasn't replaced by wetbacks is because she not only worked for the same wetback wages as they did, but also no benefits. She raised 5 kids on it and often had to get help from the govt for food. Almost all her and her kids clothes have come from second hand stores.

Another one of my sisters is on disability after working her whole life. If she didn't have disability insurance (good job), she'd be FUBAR, but at the end of each month, she too has little leftover.

My wife is disabled. If she didn't have disability insurance (thru work also) she'd be hosed and probably living in some section 8 apartments or cheap motels until some government money comes in.

All have worked their whole lives, very hard and never really had much after paycheck income to invest with.
These people are what people like you would call "irresponsible, stupid, lazy, etc."

Here's a nice pic of wonderful vacation scenery.

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab220/Congo284/van.jpg

I lived in that van for almost 2 years as I was learning yet another trade.
I know no one gives a shit about me and most of the manager/investor/owner class only give a shit about their own goodies, investments, and such....and will hose anyone and everyone to "stupid, lazy and irresponsible" not to be like them.

I've seen this train coming so I've been preparing myself. I'm probably going to have to give my brother work down the road when he's replaced by wetbacks. Don't know about BIL. Sister I don't like. Wife I'll have to continue to be her primary care giver and work some factory job somewhere for $13/hr and figure out how to also work doing remods or the like.

But what the hell do I know? I'm just "irresponsible, stupid and lazy". Oh, and "don't want to move to find work....."

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. But you aren't special there--the world is full of ignorant people. In some areas I too have been ignorant.

[Lysander]

So Congo, you trot out a bunch of examples of people who've made rather poor decisions in their lives (otherwise they most likely wouldn't be in their current predicament) and then call me ignorant?

You'd rather bitch on the internet about how illegals stole your job and you can't get hired because you're too old instead of traveling to where there is work. For fuck's sake man, where is your sense of pride? Where is your work ethic? Stop your bitching, get up, and go to where there's work.

Hell, with your skills you could make a KILLING if you had some brains. Let me give you a hint; Courthouse Auctions and Section 8 rentals. With a few thousand dollars, some patience, and a bit of thought you could be in good shape in no time.

But it takes a lot less work to just cry "woe is me" on the internet. Pathetic.

[Full Otto]

Sorry you're going thru "the shit" of reality. Thank you for being honest and sharing. There are a lot of people that don't have a clue about a certain demographic.

If you've nothing better to do, shoot me an email: congoloid@hotmail.com

Well thanks so far I'm hanging in there and staying within my means but it's not a good feeling.
Until you're there you just do see it but that's true of a lot of things.
Here's a site that you gotta realize if it wasn't a problem there wouldn't be a need for it.
http://www.experienceworks.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage
Overlooked and Underserved: The Crisis Facing America's Older Workers

Nothing new and I'm not whining but take a look around and how many older workers do you actually see out there. I've met one guy about my age former machinist who now works at the unemployment office cause he couldn't find anything and wasn't about to let me take his place.
The younger guys who still have the world by the tail will see in due time that they can be replaced easily.
It's not welfare that's another animal and do understand the feeling's of someone who's working but one does still have to pay taxes on their UI.
I've started trying to sell my own artwork, really hoping that takes off, would be great to make an income and be my own boss

[mriddick]

There is no set formula on why some succeed and other don't. I've found brains are not as important as most think , one mistake many who do succeed make is equating smarts with their success. One does not mean your the other. I think it comes down to having a good plan (or being able to plan), hard work and some luck. I've seen people who've done well in life for which there is no logical reason why (I might be one), I've seen people who should of had a lock on life fail miserably. One thing I believe is no one has ever succeeded by quitting.

[Solidus-snake]

If it's a very real possibility have you looked into short and or long term disability insurance? If not, why? Of couse you'd be getting workers comp for a work related injury which might get you by or it might not. Anything can happen to anyone at any time, the point is if the government teat is your fall back position in the event of a mishap then your really leaving yourself and your family in a vulnerable position and that is 100% on you.

Oh believe me, I do. Both long and short term. It just seemed like the general vibe I was getting was that all one deserved was their own bank savings, and nothing more.

[Congo]

You know all this makes me think of the illegals.
The wetbacks are destroying our country, or another POV, remaking it.

The wetbacks do so much graft/fraud. The women live in section 8 paid for housing, get govt kid money put on plastic cards, get free health care, food for their kids, legal services, etc. Oh, and they use the "I havea kid so I want my government money" earned income tax credit cash back.
They work for cash in addition to all of that....and their "men" stay with them, who also are off paper as to not f/u the taxpayer cash shower.

As far as work the wetbacks do--employers will hire them first as they will work for far less than americans and will do so with no bennies. They're three deep at the ready. Can work them overtime, but not pay them for that, work w/o lunches. I've seen it. I've also done it for two different employers.

Another thing to remember is most of the construction jobs never get to the "help wanted" post/ad. Wetbacks working all the time offer "I know someone that..." and that someone is another wetback. I'd not be surprised if the wetbacks do it here the same way they it's done in their own country--people pay for that job, either up front or make payments to the person that got them that job.

They have a ready supply of stolen tools. Oh, not to mention all those "nodoc" (no id documentation) mortgages given to them where they in turn rented it out to other wetbacks, stuffing every room in the house with them.

The wetbacks have been awash in cash the last 10 years in our country, so it would make a lot of sense for someone to have taco trucks at every construction site, auto parts store, in many parking lots in mexican/wetback areas of town. There's a lot of money to be made off of them, so if you speak their language and serve them their own food and play their own music in the background, you too can get in on all that cash.

[ubersoldate]

I'm a lot more honest these days and finally realized and fully accepted that being "correct in speech" is just an extension of being "correct in thought".
The trip is, most of the time what I'm told I should "think" completely differs with the reality I reside in. This is sort of amusing to me these days.

A few weeks ago we took a road trip for a few weeks to another state. While there, we went to a home depot and as we went up and down the aisles, I noted no one is speaking spanish. I noted it out loud (that's the type guy I am) that "I like this place--it's not full of mexicans" and a couple walking by heard it and broke out laughing.

After our respite, we returned to denver, mexico and went to a home depot in denver, mexico and I made a comment on all the people speaking mexican spanish. It was clearly 50% or more of the people in the store, announcements were in english/spanish, etc.

So, someone from that first home depot I went to will judge me and my experience of the home depot I live by in denver, mexico.
They'll think I'm making shit up, I'm a whiner, I blame others, I'm an asshole, I'm a racist, etc.

Not that I care and sometimes I like it when people judge me as such. It goes to show how ignorant and arrogant they are.
Ain't that some funny shit? And they'll do it with such firm personal belief, grounded fully in their own reality of their own small area of our large country.

People that have known me a long time should have been able to see how I've changed. People that didn't know who I used to be are more than ready to proclaim me as "racist" or "lazy" or whatever they care to proclaim from their livingroom in some other part of the country. But I figure what the heck, people are people and they are just being who they are. Such is the nature of the strengths and frailties of humans.

I come from the same place in a way, the border being wide open cost me my job, my livelyhood, all the time and hard work I put into my own company over the years. GONE.
I am 40, its the only thing I know, and I know damn well I could have weathered the economy during this downturn, but I cant compete with a people who dont have to pay taxes, licensing, bonding, insurance, let alone the fact they undercut my bids by an easy half.
I dropped my prices, I worked harder.
I got more involved with local government and border groups.
I FOUGHT to keep my business above water, but in the end, I lost it.

So with that I must say,


You were on unemployement for a year, and you still dont think that was enough.
You were showed last night a company, that even though YOU say they arent hiring, they ARE, and instead of bitching about illegals WHILE you get busy making a move to keep yourself above water, you would rather complain on an internet board.

Do you think your the only one to see some hard times?
No offense, but a guy who lives in a van down by the river, during a period of time that was a great construction boom, its no suprise that you are having trouble finding work now.
If you came to my interview, and complained about your age, the mexicans, and the fact that you have to live in your car, well, I wouldnt hire you either.

You complain about your age, hell where I work, its easily 60% of the workforce are over 55 years old.
And since the store just opened its ALL NEW HIRES.

And yes it sucks, the wage started at $10 an hour part time. Easily half of what I made before, and NOT ENOUGH to pay my bills.
But I went in, I did the best I could, and within two months, Ive gone up two dollars an hour, and gone full time.
So just because a job doesnt give you what you want, right off the bat, doesnt mean it isnt there for the taking.

I did a check on your area last night, and put myself in your position looking for work, I found alot more places hiring than here.

You are in a MAJOR CITY IN COLORADO. YOU ARE NOT IN A BORDER AREA, GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GET A JOB, AND STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE ILLEGALS.
There is NOTHING you can do about them untill the nation stands up and starts solving the problem, and it sure as hell isnt worth throwing your life away.

[ubersoldate]

To punish someone for experiencing raw bad luck, to engage in finger-waving like some damn parson and moralising and telling them to 'pull their socks up' is mark of a brute and a bore.

.
Typical liberal bullshit. You totally skip over the fact that we arent talking " raw bad luck" we are discussing a person who HAS BEEN ON UNEMPLOYMENT FOR A YEAR.
Our taxes paid for him for a year to find work and not one job? Nothing? Not even a lead?
Sorry, I support the idea that people get laid off, and the world isnt fair, and this country is KNOWN for helping people out, but there is a limit to help, and just plain being lazy should be punished, not promoted..
I see it all the time here " that job down at so and so is nice and all, but I will make ten dollars more a week by getting unemployment and foodstamps"

And if thats your gig, then fine, but you better damn well know that if you come to a message board spouting hatred and blaming the world for your problems you are going to get called on it.

[Congo]

Overlooked and Underserved: The Crisis Facing America's Older Workers

There is and I'll check out that site, thanks.

I've found a large part of success comes down to one thing--"era and age". Yes, both are one.
One brother of mine is an older boomer. He owned his own construction company and was successful until one of the RE crashes.
Was he smarter than most? I don't know. Was he lazy? Prolly not.

What he was is the right age at the rite time. He walked up to a construction site and told the guy he was a carpenter and was put to work. Two swings of the hammer revealed he wasn't and didn't know anything. But the real carpenter said, "I'll teach you" and did. Now, if I were to walk up to a construction site and try that, well, no way on many levels.

That used to be how a lot of non-college kids got jobs, either at the factory or at the jobsite. No more.

The factory worker (BIL) did all the right things (for his era), played by the rules, had kids, etc. Factory shut down and moved. So now he was in his 40s and looking for work where there was none. I guess this is where he was supposed to go to college.....for something. How many college grads half his age are out there and looking for work again?

Were the kids that graduated college in the 90s wizards, smarter than the rest of us? I doubt it. Yet a lot of them rode the tech/IPO/stock wave back then that was a myth. That crashed to reality and they didn't seem to be geniuses after all.

The demographic that's going to disappear are the tail end of the boomers and boomers that have been "phased out".
I don't know what will become of them as I've stated. There are many forces trying to squash them, but the one that could be prevented, the only one IMO is the flood of wetbacks that everyone love so much. But stemming the flood won't happen for a variety of reasons on the side of the left and the right. They have different reasons/rationalizations, but pretty the end result is the same.

The older worker needs to just fucking die off and be quiet about it. They are lazy and stupid.
There's too much dysfunction being crammed into the bottom and production being squashed into oblivion at the top for short term gains.
What's going to be very interesting is to see where all of this goes as the structure of the economy/society is nothing but a weakened cardboard box and every day, more and more water is being poured into it. The US is going to be a very different place in 5-10 years.


I've started trying to sell my own artwork, really hoping that takes off, would be great to make an income and be my own boss
the only way the older worker is going to make it is to do like what you are doing. Most won't/can't as not everyone's a businessman...as that makes sense. Not everyone's a leader, not everyone's manager, not everyone's a master sgt, etc.

Gonna be very interesting to see what becomes of the "older worker" as more and more of them get tossed to the curb, realize how few options they really have and less and less each day, then be called stupid and lazy.

[mriddick]

That is an odd post, surely you know the boomers have it much better then the up and coming generations. We are probably the last generation to commonly have pensions, we will get more for our SSI dollars and most of us have our homes paid off by now. The demographic with the most wealth is the older generation, we are not a generation that has lost the American dream, we spent it on ourselves and sent the bill to our kids...

[Congo]

I cant compete with a people who dont have to pay taxes, licensing, bonding, insurance, let alone the fact they undercut my bids by an easy half.
I dropped my prices, I worked harder.
I got more involved with local government and border groups.
I FOUGHT to keep my business above water, but in the end, I lost it.

and people are experiencing the same thing every day wherever a place is flooded with wetbacks for the last 10 years.
Sorry you lost your livelihood and home.
But you moved. If your new area was flooded with wetbacks (as they will come to colonize new places where their destruction of the job market hasn't taken place yet), where will you then move to?


You were on unemployement for a year, and you still dont think that was enough.
Time wasn't the issue. Wetbacks were. If it weren't for them I'da been able to not only work, but when I did work, make more money.
And not have to take 1099 jobs to further save the "employer" money (which means no unemployment insurance paid).
Like i said, wetbacks have so destroyed the construction market in CO that americans can't build up any reserves, any cushion.
Sort of hard to start a business when your unemployment checks are going to bills. I was getting $600 a month. Sort of hard to do much with that.

A good analogy is to slowly be starved, then once you're at 105lbs, have someone say, "OK, put on this pack and we're going on an endurance run".
There's a reason why pawnshops have been chock full of tools over the last 5 years. They aren't all stupid and lazy.
The problem is on the front end.


You were showed last night a company, that even though YOU say they arent hiring, they ARE,
I've applied to that company before, and other, similar ones. I've even talked to managers/staff there as I've spent a lot of time there, giving out my cards to people there to buy things. I've also driven around and stopped by houses under construction and done the same. I've also walked many miles up and down streets putting the fliers I made on doors (which put a good dent in my unemp check). About the only thing I didn't do is fly a sign outside of a home depot stating something like "Handyman for hire". I guess I could have, but I've seen a few of them already, one guy even in a van with a sign along the whole side. i don't want to get into hammer swinging kung fu fights over who owns what streetcorner.

I've made a connection which was purely none of my doing and now have had some work and have some in the future. I'm OK as I've been preparing for this as I've seen it coming. But I'm the exception to my demographic.


a guy who lives in a van down by the river, during a period of time that was a great construction boom, its no suprise that you are having trouble finding work now.
Didya like that area? That was between dillon and vail. I went up in the mountains because all the work in denver was taken by wetbacks. In the mountains, it was worse, but I took what I could. Then I'd go down to the springs to work as government places sometimes don't allow wetbacks in, so there would be work there--the work wasn't regular/steady. But the companies from denver went into the mountains and undercut them, driving them out of work, so that work dried up.

Oh, and ya gotta remember, I was learning another trade, so it's not like I was making $18/hour in the first place. It's a cost I was willing to pay, sort of like "buying insurance" for the future. Now I have another tool in my toolbox. I was able to do that because I didn't have a wife and/or kids, a mortgage, etc. Dumbasses that bought into the wife/kids/house wouldn't have been able to do what I did. Those are the people that are going to take that hit and not be able to recover. I've seen very experienced millwrights happy to get a forklift job for $12/hour. But that was one of the few companies that hired "old people". What will become of that person if that factory job is now in mexico? Or they just hire kids/wetbacks to drive their lift trucks? That's what I'm talking about.


If you came to my interview, and complained about your age, the mexicans, and the fact that you have to live in your car, well, I wouldnt hire you either.
That's meaningless because I don't do that in interviews. I hope you're not insinuating I'm stupid. I used to interview people myself, so I'm sort of aware of things. I am professional, but have learned to dumb down things. Ironically, that built in company I interviewed with, I realized I interacted with him on a professional level as we were talking business/shop instead of the duties of the floor sweeper (literally) he was hiring.


You complain about your age, hell where I work, its easily 60% of the workforce are over 55 years old.
And since the store just opened its ALL NEW HIRES.
and you must be in a rural--ish place because there are no new stores opening up here and haven't been for a while. Most aren't even buying from vendors, they're transferring stock from each other.
I'm going to be out of here soon, moving away from mexico to a far more rural place where I'll be amongst my kind. I can do that.
But what a lot of people fail to realize is people in my demographic usually can't just up and move somewhere else, due to the wife/house/kids thing, much less have transferrable skills like I do. I'm going to be OK I think. Others can't as they won't/don't have the options I do. There are benefits of never having been married and not having any kids or never having a house. ;)


I did a check on your area last night, and put myself in your position looking for work, I found alot more places hiring than here.
Things are picking up here. Like I said, I have picked up some things. But also I've applied for work and not gotten it. What was big was glaziers (windows/doors) due to the obammie tax credit. Those are the ones that were hiring, but only wanted young workers.

I've been home about an hour and not eaten supper yet, so I'm going to end this post here.

But I just thought of something--I just realized a lot of people don't believe me. So this means that either I'm lying or I'm a clueless dumbass.

Interesting huh. Which do you think I am? I know what I am. I'm off to break open a beer and get something to eat.

[recon]

That is an odd post, surely you know the boomers have it much better then the up and coming generations. We are probably the last generation to commonly have pensions, we will get more for our SSI dollars and most of us have our homes paid off by now. The demographic with the most wealth is the older generation, we are not a generation that has lost the American dream, we spent it on ourselves and sent the bill to our kids...

Agree!

[ubersoldate]

and people are experiencing the same thing every day wherever a place is flooded with wetbacks for the last 10 years.
Sorry you lost your livelihood and home.
But you moved. If your new area was flooded with wetbacks (as they will come to colonize new places where their destruction of the job market hasn't taken place yet), where will you then move to?

Good question, who knows what time will tell, but I will be damned to give up before anything comes to pass.


Time wasn't the issue. Wetbacks were.
Time is an issue to anyone who sees your rant and wish to take you seriously. A year is a long time, even more to blame everyone but yourself in this thread. If it weren't for them I'da been able to not only work, but when I did work, make more money.
And not have to take 1099 jobs to further save the "employer" money (which means no unemployment insurance paid).
Like i said, wetbacks have so destroyed the construction market in CO that americans can't build up any reserves, any cushion.
So pack your tools and leave Colorado, period. That or switch careers.
Sort of hard to start a business when your unemployment checks are going to bills. I was getting $600 a month. Sort of hard to do much with that.
Yea I know alot of people who could do something with that. The reason its low, is ITS NOT FOR YOU TO LIVE LONG PERIODS OF TIME ON, ITS FOR HELPING WHILE YOU GET A JOB.

A good analogy is to slowly be starved, then once you're at 105lbs, have someone say, "OK, put on this pack and we're going on an endurance run".

There's a reason why pawnshops have been chock full of tools over the last 5 years. They aren't all stupid and lazy.
The problem is on the front end.
So mexicans, economy, old people, who isnt to blame for your issues? Do you take any responsibility for this?


I've applied to that company before, and other, similar ones. I've even talked to managers/staff there as I've spent a lot of time there, giving out my cards to people there to buy things.
They only hire onthe internet, there isnt a manager in a location that can do a damn thing for you, and you are wrong, they are hiring, I can go there as a department maganger and see jobs that are open in denver, there are some
I've also driven around and stopped by houses under construction and done the same. I've also walked many miles up and down streets putting the fliers I made on doors (which put a good dent in my unemp check). About the only thing I didn't do is fly a sign outside of a home depot stating something like "Handyman for hire". I guess I could have, but I've seen a few of them already, one guy even in a van with a sign along the whole side. i don't want to get into hammer swinging kung fu fights over who owns what streetcorner.
So you live in a large city, that doesnt have ONE SINGLE JOB IN THE WHOLE PLACE, then I would suggest MOVE.

I've made a connection which was purely none of my doing and now have had some work and have some in the future. I'm OK as I've been preparing for this as I've seen it coming. But I'm the exception to my demographic.
No you arent, you tell us you are, but I work with people who all have contruction backround, and over 55, so your story is yours, no one elses. Did you have a contractor license? Or did you just work for other people?


. I've seen very experienced millwrights happy to get a forklift job for $12/hour. But that was one of the few companies that hired "old people". What will become of that person if that factory job is now in mexico? Or they just hire kids/wetbacks to drive their lift trucks? That's what I'm talking about.
Does any of this really matter in the end? I mean you can be mad about stuff that hasnt happened yet, but in the end, no one is going to care if you starve, get off your butt and go to work, stop wasting energy about something that you cant do anything about now.


That's meaningless because I don't do that in interviews. I hope you're not insinuating I'm stupid. I used to interview people myself, so I'm sort of aware of things. I am professional, but have learned to dumb down things. Ironically, that built in company I interviewed with, I realized I interacted with him on a professional level as we were talking business/shop instead of the duties of the floor sweeper (literally) he was hiring.
No I am not saying you are stupid, and I mean no offense, no name calling, none of that. I am only letting you know what I get from this thread, only from what you give us, nothing more.


and you must be in a rural--ish place because there are no new stores opening up here and haven't been for a while. Most aren't even buying from vendors, they're transferring stock from each other.
There is three new stores in colorado, and the moving merchandise from store to store is just not true, at all. Whomever told you that was not telling you the truth. Have you considered getting on with MCBRIDE merchandising? they are the main vendors for Lowes, they work all over the country, and yes they are hiring now. I know as a fellow employee left his job here to go work for them.
I'm going to be out of here soon, moving away from mexico to a far more rural place where I'll be amongst my kind. I can do that.
Sounds like a smart Idea, good luck to you on that move, I am sure that it will be for the better if its as bad as you say there.
But what a lot of people fail to realize is people in my demographic usually can't just up and move somewhere else, due to the wife/house/kids thing, much less have transferrable skills like I do. I'm going to be OK I think. Others can't as they won't/don't have the options I do. There are benefits of never having been married and not having any kids or never having a house. ;)

We are in the greatest country in the world, and by far the most FREE country ever known, you can get up and move where you like, whenever you like. I am married I have kids, but I also know when its time to move, then its time to stop talking and do it.


Things are picking up here. Like I said, I have picked up some things. But also I've applied for work and not gotten it. What was big was glaziers (windows/doors) due to the obammie tax credit. Those are the ones that were hiring, but only wanted young workers.
Then make them say that on paper, then sue them, as I would hire a older person if they could do the job and seemed responsible.

I've been home about an hour and not eaten supper yet, so I'm going to end this post here.

But I just thought of something--I just realized a lot of people don't believe me. So this means that either I'm lying or I'm a clueless dumbass.
I dont think you are either, and I am not attacking you, I just feel that I have to add my two cents because I have a idea where you are at.

Interesting huh. Which do you think I am? I know what I am. I'm off to break open a beer and get something to eat.
Sounds good. Enjoy.
Again, make your own destiny as best as you can. I dont think your lying or a dumbass, I think that possibly you just didnt realize how bad it actually was, and squandered the small amout of assitance you received.
Once your in the hole its harder to get to level ground, but no worries, in time it will come around.

[Congo]

surely you know the boomers have it much better then the up and coming generations.
and with everything, the definitions are usually the most important as it sets the parameters.
Boomers are usually defined as being born between 46-64. That's quite a broad range. Someone graduating from high school in 1964 surely went into a different world than someone graduating from high school in 1982, tho they both are considered boomers. The early to mid boomers are the ones that got the best of everything. The ones on the front side of that are the ones going to be fucked.
BTW, I doubt most boomers have their homes paid off. I'd guess 25-35% and most of those would be in the verticle belt of the middle america.


The demographic with the most wealth is the older generation
Very true. And that was all because we had an economy based upon production of goods for export. Money from outside your economic area brought into your economic area is how wealth and prosperity are created. This is why pension villages are so lucrative and of course, why mexico does everything and anything it can to keep money coming into their country from ours via wire transfers. We pay all the costs associated with creating and supporting it and they get all the benefit of "it" just appearing out of thin air.

I do believe we will have some sort of socialzed medicine due to the boomers. The components of rising healthcare costs won't be addressed due to politics, so something will have to be done.

There's a lot of costs coming down the tube and I don't see any way out of it.

[Congo]

I didn't realize you responded because I couldn't read it. But here goes...


Time is an issue to anyone who sees your rant and wish to take you seriously. A year is a long time, even more to blame everyone but yourself in this thread.
I don't care if people take me seriously or not. They aren't here, I am.
Time is an issue if you have nothing going on and see no prospect of it ending. It's easy for someone else, someplace else to put a starting point and an ending point on things, but that is about the definition of 'ignorance'. I met a guy that was on unemployment and getting around $450 a week. Or maybe it was $600, i don't remember. What I do remember is being floored he was getting so much and when he said "fuck them, I'm not going back to work" I myself was mad. He showed me his garage he built with the unemployment money he was getting and i'm sure his house was paid for.
He had the skills to do whatever he wanted--IIRC, he was a shop electrician or the like.

He's the type people that use and abuse the system.
He's the stereotype. But he's not me and I'm sure he's only, maybe 20% of the people pulling down unemployment checks.
For people to overlay his life upon mine or those like me is silly.

Also, one should also consider the timeframe of my unemployment--fall to fall, during obama's first year when no one was spending. How's fall for construction? Dead. Like I said, there are a lot of other inputs that other people in other states are totally unaware of--yet they readily judge.
But such is the nature of the internet and being human.


So pack your tools and leave Colorado, period. That or switch careers.
I am on both counts.
And i've wanted to, but as stated, my wife has some health issues she needs to address and that's keeping me here. I could walk, but that's be real assnine of me. I know if the roles were reversed, she'd not leave me, so I won't leave her. We'll leave her together.


[Sort of hard to start a business when your unemployment checks are going to bills.]The reason its low, is ITS NOT FOR YOU TO LIVE LONG PERIODS OF TIME ON, ITS FOR HELPING WHILE YOU GET A JOB.
No, the reason it's low is because so little was paid in. Most of my work was 1099 as that's the way the market works. That's "independent contractor", meaning no workers comp, no unemployment paid in. Get hurt, then if you can't work, too bad. Job is over, work runs out, no unemployment.
The last job I had I took it at $14/hr and was very glad to have it because I was an actual employee, so come fall when there's no work, I could at least get unemployent. So I got so little because I paid in so little.
And yes, those things were because of wetbacks. Why? Because that's what the market does here. There are so many wetbacks here in the trades that they set the market.


Did you have a contractor license? Or did you just work for other people?
I don't have any licenses and I worked for others.
I got back into the trades because, well, as everyone says, "switch careers" so I did. Once in the trades, I saw the mexicanization of it and where it would all wind up. This is why I also started learning about other trades and when work ran out in the trade I was in, got into another one starting at the laborer level and working my way up that food chain. In a way, I guess I can say I've been "investing" all along. ;)

:D

[O.S.O.K.]

I was born in 1961 (same year as obama = scary isn't it?).

I've had to compete with the boomers ahead of me my whole life. I started out looking for a job post graduation in 1983. Remember that year? Yes, unemployment was worse than it is now - I'm not going to go into the details again, but I had to take shit jobs and work my way up.

I know all about being on the ass end of the boomer bubble.

But somehow, I've managed to get ahead. Somehow.

We make our decisions and roll the dice. The, uh what do you call it? Manger/investor/what? Some kind of commie sounding phrase... I forget. Those people decided to pay the piper up-front. To get the extra education. I did that. It didn't pay off until 4 years after I graduated but eventually, it did.

I would think that those that chose to pursue a trade would have done very well but I guess things can catch up to you.

We make our decsions and roll the dice.

I thank God every morning for the blessings that I've received and the decisions that I've made. So far.

And as far as the illegals go - I totally agree that the fuckers should be rounded up and sent south. But remember that it's the unions that have supported the democrats that have (primarily) pushed to keep the open borders.

Perhaps we have all come to the point that we can agree to round them up...

[Lysander]

I was born in 1961 (same year as obama = scary isn't it?).

I've had to compete with the boomers ahead of me my whole life. I started out looking for a job post graduation in 1983. Remember that year? Yes, unemployment was worse than it is now - I'm not going to go into the details again, but I had to take shit jobs and work my way up.

I know all about being on the ass end of the boomer bubble.

But somehow, I've managed to get ahead. Somehow.

Did you sit on the intarweb and bitch about how rough you had it? I know that's got to be the recipe for success!

[Congo]

But somehow, I've managed to get ahead. Somehow.
And that's you, your life.
There are people that did everything anyone could ask of them, were reliable, hard working, etc. yet due to no fault of their own, got booted to the curb. OK, that happens, be it natural causes (technology) or man made (destruction of the labor market/offshoring production). That's more of the "era" thing I mentioned. The "age" thing is, well, their age. This is one thing preventing a lot them from re-entering into the job market. But they're getting their unemployment insurance in the meantime.

I don't know of any older fucks not working that are taking "unemployment vacations" like the young dumbfucks are. They know their options are limited and getting worse every month. I really doubt that most of the long term unemployed are just looking at their situation as a goof off time, time to enjoy life, etc.
Some might, but by far, the older workers aren't that stupid.


I thank God every morning for the blessings that I've received and the decisions that I've made. So far.
Wise man. Like mriddick alluded to, I don't know what makes someone successful and some not. I'd like to say hard work, but that's not the case. Neither for intelligence. Nor planning.

[Congo]

Did you sit on the intarweb and bitch about how rough you had it? I know that's got to be the recipe for success!
Um, I'll assume you're referring to me. Bullshitting on the net I don't think is part of anyones overall plan to do anything but bullshit, but I don't know everyone so that's just an assumption, a guess.

I didn't start this thread and didn't chime in until I kept reading ignorant statements and proclamations. Like I've said over and over here, "I'm going to be OK".
I posted my experience because people like me is what the majority of posters here were whining about, making proclamations about, and railing against.

I basically said, "here's me and why" along with who I know first hand.
Ya'll can look at that as bitching, whining, crying or what have you. I am real and shared my living the life ya'll are judging. I've answered every question that i know has been asked and questioned/challenged others on their positions/beliefs.

I know of no better way to rationally discuss something than that.

[JTHunter]

Nor has there been one for over 50 years! They modified themselves into the "Communist Party" after the end of WW2.

Here is the link to Wikipedia about the man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Thomas

[mriddick]

There's obviously a democratic party it's on the news every night :) It's just up till about 1980 or so it's main concern was workers, then it found out there were easier votes from the nonworkers and now we have a party devoted to those who won't work (D's) and business (R's).

[JTHunter]

mriddick - they are like RINO's in that they are "democratic" in name only.

HEY! That would make them "DINO's" and we all KNOW what happened to the "DINO-saurs"!
:biggrina::hoo-yeah:

[mriddick]

To the average left leaning Dem any "conservative" Dem is a DINO. The sad part is to many American workers the Dem party still represents the worker which it clearly does not. The American worker is now viewed as a slush fund who is used to pay for those who will not work through his withholding taxes. When I was growing up you'd hear the rallying cry of being for the workingman, now we only hear of being for the poor. Working people like to look at where they are in life and consider themselves poor but in reality when some Dem Congressman talks of the poor and rich chances are anyone with a job is rich and the poor are those who leach off society.

[JAMC]

Typical liberal bullshit. You totally skip over the fact that we arent talking " raw bad luck" we are discussing a person who HAS BEEN ON UNEMPLOYMENT FOR A YEAR. Our taxes paid for him for a year to find work and not one job? Nothing? Not even a lead?
Sorry, I support the idea that people get laid off, and the world isnt fair, and this country is KNOWN for helping people out, but there is a limit to help, and just plain being lazy should be punished, not promoted.

Forgive the idealistic, liberal, left-wing, eurotrash view of this problem but isn't the level of help required determined by whether it is successful in resolving the underlying problem or not? I don't see how it is possible to draw a line in the sand and say "one year's help is enough" - that would be a completely arbitrary judgement that took no account of the actual situation people are facing. If someone with every intention of finding gainful employment has done everything they reasonably can to find work within that time period and still come up blank, their need to a) find work and b) live off something while they're looking for it doesn't just go away.

You may hold a belief that anyone should be able to find a job within a year, but what happens when that belief is challenged by events on the ground, as it would certainly have been during the great depression in the 1930s? Leaving aside for a moment the problem that there will always be exceptions to any rule of that kind, the present economic situation is likely to push the number of people that exceed any arbitrary time limit upwards. How do you propose to deal with it?

[Charliebravo]

JAMC, the prolem is that none of the Jug-Eared Kenyan's policies are designed to "create jobs" other than temporary government work. His stimulus was largely designed to reward his backers, like putting subsidies on super-expensive 'energy-saving' windows. Guess what, some of Obama's close associates have a financial interest in the company that manufactures them. There's never a word about cutting taxes or regulation. That prick actually has the audacity to regulate and tax the piss out of the producers in this country, then get all indignant because they can't 'create jobs' for him.

[mriddick]

Forgive the idealistic, liberal, left-wing, eurotrash view of this problem but isn't the level of help required determined by whether it is successful in resolving the underlying problem or not? I don't see how it is possible to draw a line in the sand and say "one year's help is enough" - that would be a completely arbitrary judgement that took no account of the actual situation people are facing. If someone with every intention of finding gainful employment has done everything they reasonably can to find work within that time period and still come up blank, their need to a) find work and b) live off something while they're looking for it doesn't just go away.

You may hold a belief that anyone should be able to find a job within a year, but what happens when that belief is challenged by events on the ground, as it would certainly have been during the great depression in the 1930s? Leaving aside for a moment the problem that there will always be exceptions to any rule of that kind, the present economic situation is likely to push the number of people that exceed any arbitrary time limit upwards. How do you propose to deal with it?

Lets do a test, my wife is unemployed, send her half your paycheck and we will see how long she stays unemployed.

[Richard Simmons]

How do you propose to deal with it?


The only people that should have to "deal with it" are those who are unemployed. We didn't have unemployment insurance until 1935 so as a nation and as a people we managed to survive without it for 159 years. Just like any other form of social welfare it is rife with abuse and does nothing to promote personal responsibility.

People loaded their family and belongings into wagons and treked across this great nation in the 1800's to find a better life, risking death a disease along each and every mile of that journey yet today we have people who wouldn't even consider moving to a neighboring state to find a job because it's too inconvenient or there is too much uncertainty.

No one is owed a job in this society so why are they owed payment when they don't have one?

[JAMC]

JAMC, the prolem is that none of the Jug-Eared Kenyan's policies are designed to "create jobs" other than temporary government work. His stimulus was largely designed to reward his backers, like putting subsidies on super-expensive 'energy-saving' windows. Guess what, some of Obama's close associates have a financial interest in the company that manufactures them. There's never a word about cutting taxes or regulation. That prick actually has the audacity to regulate and tax the piss out of the producers in this country, then get all indignant because they can't 'create jobs' for him.
There is an argument that temporary work provided by the state - as long as it's a worthwhile activity that actually contributes something of value to the economy, doesn't leech potential staff from the private sector preventing a recovery and isn't just a punitive exercise in humiliation - is preferable to handing out cheques for (I can only speak for the UK) just "looking" for work that isn't there, because at least society gets something out of it in return for the cost of the welfare program. I imagine there's no shortage of stuff over there in the US that needs doing.

If all Obama is doing in reality is providing subsidies to favoured industries, that in isolation will have a negligible impact on unemployment, and a negative one on the country's financial situation.

[JAMC]

Lets do a test, my wife is unemployed, send her half your paycheck and we will see how long she stays unemployed.

Unemployment relief isn't (in the UK at least) given with no strings attached. Are you not required in the US to present evidence that you've been looking for work and applying for positions?

[JAMC]

The only people that should have to "deal with it" are those who are unemployed. We didn't have unemployment insurance until 1935 so as a nation and as a people we managed to survive without it for 159 years. Just like any other form of social welfare it is rife with abuse and does nothing to promote personal responsibility.

People loaded their family and belongings into wagons and treked across this great nation in the 1800's to find a better life, risking death a disease along each and every mile of that journey yet today we have people who wouldn't even consider moving to a neighboring state to find a job because it's too inconvenient or there is too much uncertainty.

No one is owed a job in this society so why are they owed payment when they don't have one?

So you're saying that the unemployed should deal with their unemployment by packing their meagre posessions into a bindle and trecking off through the wildnerness on foot in the slim hope that work exists somewhere else, whilst subsisting on a diet of wild berries and assorted naturally-occuring fungi that can be picked from bushes or scraped of tree bark, whilst hoping not to contract tetanus or die of exposure along the way?

I must admit that I had expected the self-proclaimed "greatest nation on earth" to come up with something a little bit more... advanced... than that.

Your last question in which you state that no one is owed a job in society (regardless of the payment issue) is akin to suggesting that no one is owed the opportunity to contribute towards society through work. Your argument undermines society itself.

[mriddick]

Unemployment relief isn't (in the UK at least) given with no strings attached. Are you not required in the US to present evidence that you've been looking for work and applying for positions?

I'll send you proof, you send me half your pay. Come on lets see some socialism in action... :)

[Richard Simmons]

Unemployment relief isn't (in the UK at least) given with no strings attached. Are you not required in the US to present evidence that you've been looking for work and applying for positions?

I most instances you simply sign the form stating you tried to find work. No proof is needed. We occasionaly get folks that stop in the office:

Person off the street- "Are you hiring?"

Myself - "Sorry no, not at this time".

Person off the street- "Do you have a card?"


They don't even ask what we do at my company. They simply go through the motions of asking and then want a business card so that they can show it if required.


Had a phone call this morning, "Are you hiring?" "Sorry we are not". "Can I have your name?"

Didn't even bother to ask what our business does.

[Richard Simmons]

So you're saying that the unemployed should deal with their unemployment by packing their meagre posessions into a bindle and trecking off through the wildnerness on foot in the slim hope that work exists somewhere else, whilst subsisting on a diet of wild berries and assorted naturally-occuring fungi that can be picked from bushes or scraped of tree bark, whilst hoping not to contract tetanus or die of exposure along the way?

I must admit that I had expected the self-proclaimed "greatest nation on earth" to come up with something a little bit more... advanced... than that.

Your last question in which you state that no one is owed a job in society (regardless of the payment issue) is akin to suggesting that no one is owed the opportunity to contribute towards society through work. Your argument undermines society itself.

What I'm saying is that it's their responsibility to earn a living. Society is doing a fine job of underming itself though socialist ideals like yours just fine. it doesn't need my help.

[davepool]

I most instances you simply sign the form stating you tried to find work. No proof is needed. We occasionaly get folks that stop in the office:

Person off the street- "Are you hiring?"

Myself - "Sorry no, not at this time".

Person off the street- "Do you have a card?"


They don't even ask what we do at my company. They simply go through the motions of asking and then want a business card so that they can show it if required.


Had a phone call this morning, "Are you hiring?" "Sorry we are not". "Can I have your name?"

Didn't even bother to ask what our business does.

We get a lot of that also.We are a commercial roofing contractor so it's obvious when they walk in what we do. They want to fill out an application so they have proof that they are trying to find a job( in case someone calls,which never happens),wastes a lot of our secretarys time when they don't intend to work for us, when we call them back to come in for an interview
they can't make it for some reason or other.

We hire unskilled labor all the time, but very few are willing to do the work.

What's the point of applying for a job you don't intend to take....hmmm let me think.

[O.S.O.K.]

Forgive the idealistic, liberal, left-wing, eurotrash view of this problem but isn't the level of help required determined by whether it is successful in resolving the underlying problem or not? I don't see how it is possible to draw a line in the sand and say "one year's help is enough" - that would be a completely arbitrary judgement that took no account of the actual situation people are facing. If someone with every intention of finding gainful employment has done everything they reasonably can to find work within that time period and still come up blank, their need to a) find work and b) live off something while they're looking for it doesn't just go away.

You may hold a belief that anyone should be able to find a job within a year, but what happens when that belief is challenged by events on the ground, as it would certainly have been during the great depression in the 1930s? Leaving aside for a moment the problem that there will always be exceptions to any rule of that kind, the present economic situation is likely to push the number of people that exceed any arbitrary time limit upwards. How do you propose to deal with it?


Necessity is the mother of invention. Nothing is as motivating as the prospect of not having an income and the bills piling up, etc. While I enjoy my job, I would choose to do other things if I didn't need to generate an income. I might be out hunting on a 3 week trek in pursuit of wapiti or something like that - for example.

But, I've committed myself to being a husband and father and with that comes responsibility to my family - to myself for the committment that I made.

Why is this so hard for socialistic type folk to understand? Is it too skeery?

[DeadPool]

Poor wittle sperm pool got his feelers hurt. :lool:

Calling Latinos "wetbacks" is racist. I'm sorry that your a racist, thats your problem.

[Congo]

I most instances you simply sign the form stating you tried to find work. No proof is needed. We occasionaly get folks that stop in the office:

Person off the street- "Are you hiring?"

Myself - "Sorry no, not at this time".

Person off the street- "Do you have a card?"

They don't even ask what we do at my company.
I can understand that, what they were doing. In any areas where I could be a viable candidate for work, those were long ago exhausted, sometimes a few times over again. This also was during a time when no one was hiring, but ya gotta send in the info to get your electronic deposits. My time was better spent walking thru neighborhoods on saturday and sunday days, handing out fliers/cards, talking to homeowners.

Some are scammers, most aren't.

[O.S.O.K.]

Calling Latinos "wetbacks" is racist. I'm sorry that your a racist, thats your problem.

Not to enter into an argument between you two but I don't think he was calling "latinos" wetbacks. I think he was calling wetbacks, wetbacks.

Have you looked up the term? It's a prejoritive directed at Mexicans coming into the country illegally - historically this was by walking or swiming accross the Rio Grand and upon entering the US... yes, their backs were wet...

And not all Mexicans are "latinos" - some are very much european. Is it ok to say "european"? :lool:

[Congo]

Calling Latinos "wetbacks" is racist. I'm sorry that your a racist, thats your problem.
I am the one that uses the term "wetback" a lot. well, me and mexicans do.

I don't know what a latino is any more than what an anglo is.
I call mexicans that snuck into the US "wetbacks" because they are. If i'm speaking to them and/or around mexicans I use "mojado", the term they also use.

If I run across a mexican in his own country, he's a "mexican".
If someone is a citizen of this country, he's an "american".

I use simple logic and definitions because I am an honest person.

[Congo]

Is it ok to say "european"?
Shut up anglo! You can stay in france with all the other anglos!!!! :lool:

[JAMC]

I'll send you proof, you send me half your pay. Come on lets see some socialism in action... :)

That's not good enough I'm afraid. According to the rules of our system you've got to present evidence (ideally something more persuasive than business cards I might add - copies of application letters and correspondence with potential employers would be much better) in person once a week, and get to the job centre out of your own expense. Would you be willing to fly to the UK once a week out of your own pocket to present me with evidence in person?

Would you also be prepared to accept the possibility of surveilance if I had reason to suspect that you weren't in fact looking for work, or were maybe working a few hours here and there without declaring it? This is commonplace in the UK.

Also, there is no sense in providing you (or your wife) with a safety net if it only applies to you or your wife and isn't reciprocated in kind - that after all is the truly socialist part of it. Would you be prepared to sign a legally binding agreement (one here in the UK and one there in the US) in which I would be entitled to half your salary if I or my girlfriend to become unemployed? My girlfriend is unemployed at the moment, so who comes out better off from this hypothetical agreement is now largely dependent on who earns more after you take the exchange rate into account.

[JAMC]

I most instances you simply sign the form stating you tried to find work. No proof is needed.

Self-certification is a recipe for cheats to thrive. While I wholeheartedly support the principle of helping people in genuine need, the level of oversight required to ensure that individuals don't game the system is much higher than that - we've found that out the hard way in Britain over the past 4 decades during times of acute unemployment.

[JAMC]

What I'm saying is that it's their responsibility to earn a living.

There is also a shared civic responsibility for society to provide an environment in which it is possible for an otherwise powerless individual to earn a living. Earning a living in a free market economy requires interaction and transactions with other individuals - if the balance of bargaining power is tipped too far in favour of one individual over another, the ability of the economically powerless individual to earn a living as a result of their own efforts is reduced in line with that disparity of power. It is not possible to take the actions of the individual in isolation when analysing the root causes of unemployment and economic disenfranchisement. If every individual were capable of earning or producing enough for themselves throughout every point of their life, we would have little need for society as a concept. The reason civilisation has endured is because - like it or not - in reality we are all inter-dependent on each other for our material survival.

[JAMC]

Necessity is the mother of invention. Nothing is as motivating as the prospect of not having an income and the bills piling up, etc. While I enjoy my job, I would choose to do other things if I didn't need to generate an income. I might be out hunting on a 3 week trek in pursuit of wapiti or something like that - for example.

But, I've committed myself to being a husband and father and with that comes responsibility to my family - to myself for the committment that I made.

Why is this so hard for socialistic type folk to understand? Is it too skeery?

I understand it perfectly well. Your theory is fine until the point where rampant economic circumstances outstrip the capability of the individual to adapt or participate within it. Eventually you end up in a situation where preventable, unnecessary deaths become commonplace as individuals fall victim to market forces that the powerful within society are no longer willing to mitigate.

[shorthair]

Last I heard in this Country you can't get an application for employment if their not hiring. So you just say I tried.

[mriddick]

That's not good enough I'm afraid. According to the rules of our system you've got to present evidence (ideally something more persuasive than business cards I might add - copies of application letters and correspondence with potential employers would be much better) in person once a week, and get to the job centre out of your own expense. Would you be willing to fly to the UK once a week out of your own pocket to present me with evidence in person?

Would you also be prepared to accept the possibility of surveilance if I had reason to suspect that you weren't in fact looking for work, or were maybe working a few hours here and there without declaring it? This is commonplace in the UK.

Also, there is no sense in providing you (or your wife) with a safety net if it only applies to you or your wife and isn't reciprocated in kind - that after all is the truly socialist part of it. Would you be prepared to sign a legally binding agreement (one here in the UK and one there in the US) in which I would be entitled to half your salary if I or my girlfriend to become unemployed? My girlfriend is unemployed at the moment, so who comes out better off from this hypothetical agreement is now largely dependent on who earns more after you take the exchange rate into account.

It's amazing how many socialist want me to be socialist but when pushed on the matter consider their money to be capitialistic, thanks for being exactly like every other self proclaimed soicalist I've ever met...

[Richard Simmons]

There is also a shared civic responsibility for society to provide an environment in which it is possible for an otherwise powerless individual to earn a living. Earning a living in a free market economy requires interaction and transactions with other individuals - if the balance of bargaining power is tipped too far in favour of one individual over another, the ability of the economically powerless individual to earn a living as a result of their own efforts is reduced in line with that disparity of power. It is not possible to take the actions of the individual in isolation when analysing the root causes of unemployment and economic disenfranchisement. If every individual were capable of earning or producing enough for themselves throughout every point of their life, we would have little need for society as a concept. The reason civilisation has endured is because - like it or not - in reality we are all inter-dependent on each other for our material survival.

This is where you fell off the cart. Probably your schooling that caused this misdirection of common sense. What you're saying is that if "people" don't do the right thing by each other then "people" in the form of government will. The fact is, the majority of individuals ARE capable, just unwilling. Sure, some can't but you don't alter the status quo to accomodate the lowest common denominator. Well, if you're a socialist you do.

[Blacksmith]

Calling Latinos "wetbacks" is racist. I'm sorry that your a racist, thats your problem.

You jump around on different threads insulting me. You take shots at my children. and then you play the victim. and now you’re telling me what my problem is. LMAO. You’re a class a Douche bag. Now run back to your NCLR headquarters and cry about it over there. They might even buy your victim routine. you damn idiot.

[Congo]

Last I heard in this Country you can't get an application for employment if their not hiring. So you just say I tried.

Some places will give you an app (and presumably keep it on file) and some will just say "we ain't hiring". I've found it all depends upon how you approach them and present yourself. Back when I was a person, some DB would come in the front door I'd not want to have around, yet other times, when we weren't hiring, one guy came in and presented himself well, but our recptionist said we weren't hiring. He was walking out the door when I intercepted him and told him to fill out an app. We wound up hiring him later when we needed a warehouse lead.

They can also use the kiosks/computers, which I also presume keeps them on file. However, with these, sometimes when you answer one of their questions wrong, it'll just stop and say something like "there are no positions open at this time" or the like. I presume they then don't keep your app then. That's happened to me a few times.

One of my friends applied for late shift at a convenience store/gas station in a smaller town on the outskirts of denver. It was for $7.50/hr. They told him they had about 120 applications for that part time job.

I hope people realize it's not all just a bunch of scammers--there are real people out there in a real bind with nothing on the horizon. And age certainly has a lot to do with that.

I can't make others understand that anymore than they can make me accept their view of my reality. The only thing I can do is try to make people aware of things.

[Lysander]

Had a bum like that come in today.

Her: "Hey, I have 7 years of AR experience"

Me: "Really? Awesome! Here, reconcile this"

Her: "uh...I haven't done it in a while"

Me: "It's ok, this should only take you a minute."

Her: "Can you just tell me you're not hiring, give me your card, and let me go?"

Me: "You left your ID at the door, right?"

Her: "yes"

Me: "I'll escort you out"

A single adjusting entry between cash and the receivable, for the sum of $35, would have done it. Literally, a 3 second job.

Took her ID, contacted the DoL, and informed the lady there what she was doing. I doubt anything will come of it, but at least this bum got flushed.

[Congo]

Me: "Really? Awesome! Here, reconcile this"
...
Her: "Can you just tell me you're not hiring, give me your card, and let me go?"

That's when you should have pointed at your crotch and said, "then how about reconcile this?"

Nothing is going to happen to her. It's government. Sort of like, "why are unemployment phone lines in english or spanish?"

There's nothing that's going to bring us out of our decline. There are too many institutions set up, too many vested interests that vote just along their interest (race/union/govt/money). I've always thought a good sign of the nearing the bottom slide is the inability of most people to be able to tell the difference between the good and the bad, the hard worker and the scammer, someone there to help you and someone there to hurt you. Everything blurs to gray in this modern, disassociated world....

[DeadPool]

You jump around on different threads insulting me. You take shots at my children. and then you play the victim. and now you’re telling me what my problem is. LMAO. You’re a class a Douche bag. Now run back to your NCLR headquarters and cry about it over there. They might even buy your victim routine. you damn idiot.

Damn Leroy chill out. Go get you some KFC and a 2 liter of grape soda or rape a white woman, whatever it takes to calm your lil sensitive ass down. Peace out ma nigga!

[Blacksmith]

Damn Leroy chill out. Go get you some KFC and a 2 liter of grape soda or rape a white woman, whatever it takes to calm your lil sensitive ass down. Peace out ma nigga!

Perhaps you should climb off your step daughter long enough to follow your own advice.

[DeadPool]

Perhaps you should climb off your step daughter long enough to follow your own advice.

I dont be havn none dem stepkids all 25 of ma kids be mines. dats right sucka and dey gots 25 diffrnt mommas. we be gettin dat werfer!

[Blacksmith]

I dont be havn none dem stepkids all 25 of ma kids be mines. dats right sucka and dey gots 25 diffrnt mommas. we be gettin dat werfer!

>>>>

[DeadPool]

>>>>

////////

[Blacksmith]

////////

http://www.cracked.com/funny-514-deadpool/

LMAO
You jumping up and down on the bed in your Deadpool pajamas? damn Kook. :lool:

[Lysander]

Perhaps you should climb off your step daughter long enough to follow your own advice.

Dude, she's hot and good to go!

[Solidus-snake]

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/tbohar/ThreadHijack-OMFG.jpg

[DeadPool]

Dude, she's hot and good to go!

Damn they are 5 and 7. You nasty jigaboos will fuck anything.

[Blacksmith]

We need a new Smiley.

A kid dressed in deadpool super hero pajamas. jumping up and down on a bed. With each jump performing one of deadpools super hero moves. :lool:

[DeadPool]

We need a new Smiley.

A kid dressed in deadpool super hero pajamas. jumping up and down on a bed. With each jump performing one of deadpools super hero moves. :lool:

My favorite move is the "mighty whitey"
I got some pussy today. Actually I get it everyday, you should get off of gunsnet every now and then and hit up a gay bar so you can get laid too.

[Blacksmith]

My favorite move is the "mighty whitey"
I got some pussy today. Actually I get it everyday, you should get off of gunsnet every now and then and hit up a gay bar so you can get laid too.

I did not realize that deadpool was gay. But It does make sense with the tights and everything.
Do you wear your super hero outfit at the bar?