The Bosnian Experience

[recon]

Part-1
http://www.survivalblog.com/2009/12/letter_re_the_bosnian_experien.html

Part-2
http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/01/letter_re_the_bosnian_experien_1.html

[sisyphus]

Very enlightening and helpful.

[HDR]

Apparently having an entirely self sufficient bug out location is not as good of an idea as we might have believed.

[Schuetzenman]

Interesting read, it makes a lot of sense.

[El Jefe]

Apparently having an entirely self sufficient bug out location is not as good of an idea as we might have believed.

Especially if it's in the Balkans! ;)

[HDR]

Especially if it's in the Balkans! ;)

In "shtf" do you believe it would be much different here?

[FunkyPertwee]

In "shtf" do you believe it would be much different here?

I would count on all the existing farms to be overrun and destroyed by the starving masses.

[El Jefe]

In "shtf" do you believe it would be much different here?

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have tanks blowing up farm houses. Bosnia is a postage stamp compared to the US and most of what went down there had been brewing for hundreds of years. Yes, I think it would be different here.

[El Jefe]

I would count on all the existing farms to be overrun and destroyed by the starving masses.

They'd have to live long enough to get to them first. Many wouldn't make it out of the city, let alone to the hinterlands. Sure in more populated areas it would be tougher, but someone in say western Kansas, not so much.

[O.S.O.K.]

Consider that people in areas that are vulnerable are likely to form defense forces. Not to do so would leave them open to being picked off one homestead at a time... it's so obvious that I fully expect that they will be formed soon after trouble starts.

They will primarily man road blocks and monitor the flow of people in and out of their area meeting any massed threat with force.

The cost to the raiders will be too high for them to pursue such areas and they'll focus on areas that fail to do this.

[HDR]

Consider that people in areas that are vulnerable are likely to form defense forces. Not to do so would leave them open to being picked off one homestead at a time... it's so obvious that I fully expect that they will be formed soon after trouble starts.

They will primarily man road blocks and monitor the flow of people in and out of their area meeting any massed threat with force.

The cost to the raiders will be too high for them to pursue such areas and they'll focus on areas that fail to do this.

The only way the raiders costs will be higher than it is worth will be if the "defense force" knows how to leverage their firepower into being the superior firepower of the day. That is accomplished by placing your assets correctly.

[Dafapa]

From part 1:


Also, it does not matter how well you are armed, unless you have numbers on your side

This is something I've been trying to stress to my friends for a while. For those spending time trying to prepare for SHTF scenarios the best return on investment is probably getting other people lined up to help. Having a stash of food and water big enough for a lot of people (along with a few weapons to pass around) would likely make you a very popular person with lots of new friends. You'd have to pick your "new friends" with some care, but you get the point.

If things degenerate into total chaos you want to be part of a large group. Individuals and small groups are going to be absorbed, or eliminated as time goes on. The people that organize the fastest are going to be the ones that come out on top.

[L1A1Rocker]

tag for later reading. Thanks for the post!

[swampdragon]

From part 1:



This is something I've been trying to stress to my friends for a while. For those spending time trying to prepare for SHTF scenarios the best return on investment is probably getting other people lined up to help. Having a stash of food and water big enough for a lot of people (along with a few weapons to pass around) would likely make you a very popular person with lots of new friends. You'd have to pick your "new friends" with some care, but you get the point.

If things degenerate into total chaos you want to be part of a large group. Individuals and small groups are going to be absorbed, or eliminated as time goes on. The people that organize the fastest are going to be the ones that come out on top.

Organization and numbers mean nothing without leadership and training.
20 rounds of ammo, one fairly good sniper and one fairly good spotter can fuck up the most "organized" group in a matter of minutes.
Shit falls apart rather quickly under many circumstances.
Shear numbers become irrelevant without direction, motivation, training and leadership.

[HDR]

Organization and numbers mean nothing without leadership and training.
20 rounds of ammo, one fairly good sniper and one fairly good spotter can fuck up the most "organized" group in a matter of minutes.
Shit falls apart rather quickly under many circumstances.
Shear numbers become irrelevant without direction, motivation, training and leadership.

That depends on how "good" the "Indians" are, doesn't it? IMO, other than assume the worst possible the problem with "fantasy" is there are too many variables to assume shit. LOL

A "good sniper?" Sniping is a lot higher a skill set than setting up a decent defensive position. Training and leadership are a two way street.

[Dafapa]

Organization and numbers mean nothing without leadership and training.
20 rounds of ammo, one fairly good sniper and one fairly good spotter can fuck up the most "organized" group in a matter of minutes.
Shit falls apart rather quickly under many circumstances.
Shear numbers become irrelevant without direction, motivation, training and leadership.

Assuming they're totally incompetent, yes their effectiveness will be hindered. Like HDR said, its fantasy at this point. The point is, in the majority of situations having more people on your side enhances your long term survival prospects.

[HDR]

Assuming they're totally incompetent, yes their effectiveness will be hindered. Like HDR said, its fantasy at this point. The point is, in the majority of situations having more people on your side enhances your long term survival prospects.

Who is incompetent; is it the attackers, the defenders or both? ;)

Having more people also increases your liabilities and responsibilities. :D It does tend to go on and on.....

To play the game, the defenders must know how to position their fighting positions to leverage their assets in weapons and terrain.

[bgummer]

Part-1
http://www.survivalblog.com/2009/12/letter_re_the_bosnian_experien.html

Part-2
http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/01/letter_re_the_bosnian_experien_1.html

Good read, thanks!

[mrkalashnikov]

Excellent reads Recon, thanks for posting.

There use to be a member here on the old forum by the user name Daniels, who posted mostly on the Yugo AK forum. He was a former officer in the JNA who survived the war in Yugoslavia during the 90's. He posted some great info about that experience. Wish he was still around.

[O.S.O.K.]

Hmm, I need to get me some horses :D

OK, maybe not so practical living in town...

[recon]

http://shtfschool.com/

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=189395

[El Jefe]

http://shtfschool.com/

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=189395

Heh, funny this thread comes back to life here. :)

Someone on another board I frequent had linked to Selco's posts on the Survivalist forums. It's an interesting read for sure.

I think one of the better points to take away from Selco's experience is the importance of hygiene products and simple meds, like antibiotics.

[Justin]

I think that the situation in Bosnia would be a lot different, compared to a shtf scenario in the USA. Personally, I don't see a civil war happening here like the one in Bosnia.

[El Jefe]

I think that the situation in Bosnia would be a lot different, compared to a shtf scenario in the USA. Personally, I don't see a civil war happening here like the one in Bosnia.

Hard to say before we actually get there I suppose. But regardless, we may well encounter similar hardships, and being prepared for that is prudent.

[O.S.O.K.]

History is a good teacher.... we should study any and all previous shtf situations.

[recon]

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810186173/video/27029911

[recon]

http://shtfschool.com/

[recon]

Good reading still.