How accurate can they be

[georgep]

Our son had an AK years ago and sold it since it was not as accurate as his bolt action for hunting. I got theses for steel targets and such.
Can these be made accurate or are they just hope and shoot?
Will go to our range this weekend for test firing and ballistic checks on the ammo we bought so I can work up a load for this weapon. We got some wolf and some reloads from Georgia arms to get the brass.

Thanks again
George P.

[imanaknut]

Mr. Kalashnikov was quoted as saying that he designed his rifle to be able to shoot an eight inch group at 150 yards. Remembering what the AK was designed for, and knowing the size of the human chest, the rifle if used in aimed fire will do it's job.

Now comparing it to a bolt action rifle is like the proverbial comparing an apple to an orange. Bolt action are inherently more accurate by design.

Please don't use Wolf ammo for long range accuracy tests. The new stuff doesn't seem to be consistent with the loading, with some rounds going bang, and some a good BOOM.

An AKM can be made more accurate with a good muzzle crown, and a good trigger group. A solid scope mount and good scope would help as well.

[slamfire51]

They are not tack drivers by any means as Hubble stated.
I found Barnual (Brown Bear, Silver Bear, etc.) to be the most consistent and accurate.

Accuracy may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

[deth502]

+1 on comparing apples to oranges.

can the bolt action get off 30 rounds into a torso sized target at 50 yds in under 10 seconds?

[georgep]

Thanks guys. I am going to fire them both from a lock down bench rest using 5 rounds from each of the 4 types I have to get a Chronograph reading for each gun.
I will test the M1 Garand and the 91/31 Sniped rifle the same way. Should be fun.

This has been a great experience on this forum getting information, thank you.

George P

[deth502]

im going to guess that the wolf will be most accurate.

not because wolf is accurate, but you mention shooting it with us made reloads. most of the us reloads ive ever saw were using .308 bullets (although that may have changed in the last year or so since i see .311 bullets becoming more common now) and in all of my experiances, ak's and sks's, which were designed for .311 bullets, have shot horribly with .308 bullets.

be sure to let us know how it goes. also, if you have a dial caliper or micrometer, you mihgt want to check your bullet diameter so you will be able to use that as a variable in determining the accuracy of each.

[georgep]

im going to guess that the wolf will be most accurate.

not because wolf is accurate, but you mention shooting it with us made reloads. most of the us reloads ive ever saw were using .308 bullets (although that may have changed in the last year or so since i see .311 bullets becoming more common now) and in all of my experiances, ak's and sks's, which were designed for .311 bullets, have shot horribly with .308 bullets.

be sure to let us know how it goes. also, if you have a dial caliper or micrometer, you mihgt want to check your bullet diameter so you will be able to use that as a variable in determining the accuracy of each.
Thanks the new stuff we have are:

Speer Hot Cor #2213 .310 123 gr HCSP
Sierra Pro Hunter #2305 .311 125 gr Spitzer
Speer Hot Cor #2217 .311 150 gr HCSP (for the 303 Enfield but MIGHT try 5 for the heck of it)
Speer TNT #1986 .308 125 gr TNTHP ( for the AR10 .308 but again might load 5 and try them)
We also have a BUNCH of other .308 stuff but all are heavy and for the M1, Nagents and 30/30

The Wolf Classic is .308
Winchester is .3082

Thanks Guys, hope to get to our range on Saturday.

George P.

[romak10/63UF]

Correct me if i am wrong but there is long barreled ak-47s NHM 91 nornico sporter target model .... Its a RPK but with the longer barrel you should be able to get better groups with chinese copper washed ammo out to 300 yards with a nice side mount russian scope.:mgwhore:

[jrken1]

These guns are accurate enough for what they were intended for. With little practice, hits on a man size target are easy enough to accomplish out to 300 meters. You must keep in mind the barrel length and shortened sight radius do not allow comparisons to other long guns. A bolt action rifle with twice as much barrel will always give you tighter impact groups at a given distance. The ballistics on the caliber itself do not suggest it to be a tack driver. It is exactly what it was intended to be. A large enough bullet to do as much damage upon impact as possible and still maintain reasonable accuracy in battle situatuions. Let us keep in mind that most of us are shooting the sporting version AK and not the full automatic version which again was the original intent for this battle weapon. Accurate enough to stop an enemy with a single shot and at close quarters in the full auto mode absolutely devastating. I have quite a few rifles that I use for hunting. My Remington 700 in .270 caliber will put 5 shots on a 100 yard target that I could cover with a 50 cent piece. But if a meltdown ever happens it will be my AK that I sleep with at night. Here is a target I brought back from my last range session. After firing about 90 rounds at different distances I decided to put the last full mag into a 50 yard target off a rest as quickly as I could while still aiming between shots. I probably took around 45 seconds to empty the gun but all shots were on target. Accurate enough for open sighted shooting .....
http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr359/jrken1/tmpphpBjpWyp.jpg

[romak10/63UF]

I will have to agree if SHTF im sleeping with my Ak47 too... But my back up weapon of choice will be my Glock 21 ... when you have to putem down.. the 45 acp will do the job. But if there is a hord of zombies.... the Ak-47 by all meens will mow them down ! lmao:big-gun:

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

You should be able to hit a man in the chest up to 150 yards away with ease. Within that envelope, most AKs will hit exactly what you point them at within a couple of inches. It's a really great machine when used for it's intended purpose.

[Hedning]

I dont know about the AK, but my Super Vepr chambered for the 7.62x51 got a twist rate that makes it a better shooter with shorter bullets. That said, Iv tested it with rather heavy bullets and it performed well. Anyway, if you dont know the twist of your rifling, measure it and find a bullet that suits it. And a trigger job would help a lot. But what made my Vepr shoot a lot better was to give it at good bedding. If it throws the spent cases to the next state ventilating the gasblock helps a little. It recycles less violently and you gain some accuracy. But that is sort of secondary as the cycle progress starts almost when the bullets is almost out of the bore. The Vepr is based on the RPK receiver, so it might have an advantage of the "stiffer" receiver. Anyhow, an AK out of the box is meant to have an accuracy that measure minute of man, so its not a benchrest rifle. But its the one rifle I would pick if someone send me to a foreign planet.

[imanaknut]

Actually if sent off to a distant planet, you need an FNH P90. I see them use that all the time on other planets according to that TV show Stargate SG1 !!!!!!

[El Laton Caliente]

Actually if sent off to a distant planet, you need an FNH P90. I see them use that all the time on other planets according to that TV show Stargate SG1 !!!!!!

LOL you bet!

[El Laton Caliente]

There are a lot of things the can be done for AKs but they are still a loose actioned (for reliability) battle rifle in an intermediate round. Milled receivers, longer barrels, good crown job and cryogenic treating can all add accuracy. The heavier / faster calibers also add greatly; the Yugo M76 in 8mm, the PSL in 7.62x54, Vepr or Saiga in .308 all come to mind. Any AK chambered in 5.56x45NATO also tends to be much better.

But at the end of the day, it was never intended to be a bench rest rifle... The best I've done with an unmodified AK in 7.62x39 with factory ammo is maybe 3.5 MOA and I felt great about it. I want to scope one of my Golani Galils; I think I can get maybe 2 MOA with the 18" barrel and 5.56x45N.

[Hedning]

Damn it... I have to go and find an FNH P90....

I didnt say what kind of accuracy Im getting out of my .308 super vepr. But with the right ammo its damn accurate. Iv been able to get 1" groups at 100m. Im not bull or horse shitting. However, the accuracy to expect if I just grab some ammo and go to the range, is arround 2". There is one guy over here that has a Vepr just like mine. And that one shoots so tight groups its unbeliveable. We havent been able to sort out why that rifle shoots so much better than the others, but it does. Its like a bolt action. Iv tried to make him sell it, but he says hell has turned to ice the day he does.

One thing that does matter is the silencer. Its a lot more accurate with the silencer mounted. I guess the "crowing" is better. Cant really see any other reason. Velocity is about 30 m/s higher too.

[Skarmajunga]

I have two vepr ks, 7.62x39 and 5.56 and they are the most accurate ak's I have. I have gotten some nice groups using silver bear in both calibers its easy to keep the rounds in the black of an SR1 100yd target all day long.

[tx318]

I get good groups when I put my 6x24 PSL scope on mine at 300yrds when I use my red dot I get 2"-3" groups at a 100yrds thats at the first 5 shots after that the group opens up .Whats good about these Romanians you can put any kinda sight on it in no time :bouncing-boobies::bouncing-boobies:http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/tx318/022.jpg

[(AK)1000shots]

The thing about the AK platform is that it was built with loose tolerances around the parts. The thing about loose tolerances, is that they allow the parts to function smoothly together, and enable ease of changing parts in and out i.e. field stripping, as well as replacing the bolt, piston, gas chamber, trigger group, etc. The cost is accuracy, as these parts allow a little bit of "give" when the firearm is operated.

The benefit, however, is the legendary dependability of the AK47. Clean your rifle *if* you feel like it. It will fire. Let the bolt rust closed, then kick it free. It will fire. Drag it behind you on a rope through the desert. Shake it clean. It will fire.

The rifle was built for reliability. Consider the lack of material the Russians had for their people during WWII: While cleaning your rifle and maintaining it perfectly are nice, and should be done, the reality is that in the field, a WWII era Russian soldier was lucky if he had two cans of ammo, let alone a cleaning kit for his rifle.

"Built Ford tough?" More like, "Built Kalashnikov tough."

[Schuetzenman]

I'd say most average 4.5 to 5 inch groups at 100 yards. That said I have had a couple of better than average AKM types hat would do sub 2" groups steadily. Some of the group dispersion comes from the rear sight hopping around. I've found that the side rail mounts and a dot or scope often shrinks groups 50% on the AK as it is solid and isn't hopping around like the iron sight is.

[Izzy]

rear sight moving? I'll have to check into that.

I had good "luck" with a SAR-1 and a Romy G 86 build, as well as a milled arsenal.

all would make 2-3" groups at 100 Yards.

The ones with bad "luck" were a SAR-2, A SAIGA in 7.62, and my last 2 WASRS...but with an AK its really luck of the draw, need to scope in my WASR and see if that helps a bit.