What .223 provides good terminal ballistics?

[Dafapa]

What type of .223 provides good terminal ballistics for use in defense carbines? It seems like some type of HP or SP would be preferable, but I'm uncertain which is better. Are there any that get good terminal performance that are designed to prevent over penetrating in a building?

[Flinter]

I've been thinking about this same thing....and I think I'm going with Nosler Ballistic tips. They just came out with a 60 grain pill that, in my opinion, may be just the ticket.

Not sure where I'd look if I weren't a reloader.

[O.S.O.K.]

Most recommendations that I've seen regarding this involve a 45 or 50 grain varmint type bullet that will expand/disintigrate and stay in the bad guy.

The .223 is a powerful enough round that if the bullet stays together, it's likely to fully penetrate the BG.

Anything short of a compressed metal powder type bullet will go through and through most typical housing materials though and even those will go through, so very hard to do anything with that - you need to hit the BG....

[Schuetzenman]

There are frangible rounds for indoor work. From what I've read the 77 gr. Sierra BTHP is quite a good terminator round at all distances. Thing is you really need a 1 in 8 twist to do it justice at long range. Across a room, it would probably get the job done just fine from a 1 in 9 barrel.

[Flinter]

Somehow I missed the frangible part.

I was thinking more general self defense round.

However....one of the many gun shows I watch did a test with the AR-15 a bit back. Even the 55 grain FMJ's were blowing to pieces after (2) 2x4's at close range.

I wouldn't have believed it if they hadn't shown it.

[Dafapa]

There are frangible rounds for indoor work. From what I've read the 77 gr. Sierra BTHP is quite a good terminator round at all distances. Thing is you really need a 1 in 8 twist to do it justice at long range. Across a room, it would probably get the job done just fine from a 1 in 9 barrel.

Digging around online turned up favorable information for some fairly heavy bullets. Supposedly the Hornady TAP 75 gr rounds should stabilize fine in most 1 in 9 barrels, and some 1 in 9 barrels will even work with their heavier 77 gr projectiles. The only issue I have with the hornady TAP .223 is its about 1.00 a bullet. That makes it unviable for stock piling.

Think the ss109 62 gr stuff would do ok?

[Schuetzenman]

Digging around online turned up favorable information for some fairly heavy bullets. Supposedly the Hornady TAP 75 gr rounds should stabilize fine in most 1 in 9 barrels, and some 1 in 9 barrels will even work with their heavier 77 gr projectiles. The only issue I have with the hornady TAP .223 is its about 1.00 a bullet. That makes it unviable for stock piling.

Think the ss109 62 gr stuff would do ok?

At close range everything is better than harsh language. :D Sure 62 will work, we have plenty of proof of it's ability to kill on two battle fronts for coming up on 10 years now. Is it the best, at long range not so much from reports. The 77 gr. bullet is in the military arsenal of rounds being fielded. I forgot the rounds designation an XM something or other. It has the same ballistic path as a 7.62 Nato round down range and provides more foot pounds of energy up close over 55 gr. or 62 gr. bullets.

Might I suggest you get into reloading? Your per round cost would be substantially lower. Example: primer 2 cents, once fired case 15 cents (high end price, I have paid as little as 3.5 Cents per case) quality bullet 11 to 20 cents depending on who's bullet you buy. Powder about 5 cents per round for a 25 gr. load. So 33 to 42 cents per round figuring high end used case prices. A .223 / 5.56 case can be reloaded 10 times or more depending on how hot your loads are when you shoot it. Everytime you use it over the cost for the case gets cut in half. I can do the 77 gr. sierra for 30.5 cents a round. If I was to use those 75 gr. bullets from Widners I would have a cost around 22 cents per round. All in all a vast savings over a buck a round from Hornaday.

A side note, I use to load 69 sierra's before they invented the 77 gr. It offered better performance above and beyond 62 gr. SS109 type projectiles on paper and is super accurate out of all my AR rifles. The load was 25.5 grs. of Varget with a Rem. small benchrest rifle primer. Commonly that round out of my Kreiger barreled AR will do sub .400" 10 round groups. At 600 yards if you can dope the wind it will put the rounds inside a large grapefruit sized circle.

[HDR]

In close 5,56 fragments inside.

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/540/m193.jpg (http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=474&title=m193&cat=540)

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/540/medium/m855.jpg (http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=476&title=m855&cat=540)

Icky looking shit.

[matshock]

+1 on the reloading if you have the time/attention to spare. My son interrupted me 4 times while I wrote this post so if I were reloading I probably would have blown myself up by now.

But if you don't- my experience to date:

I use M193 for home defense because it will likely come apart if it hits wire-reinforced stucco and it's a proven killer. I hardly ever shoot it except to zero my carbine. Frangiable or varmint rounds might give me a little more insurance, but as things are I'd have to shoot through my window directly into my neighbor's window to hurt my neighbor.

I stock some Winchester M855 because it's another proven killer and it holds value because it has green paint on it and it says Winchester on the case. I hardly ever shoot it except to test a "full power" round on a new bolt or extractor.

I stock some Black Hills .223 68 grain match rounds because they're insanely accurate out of my 1/8 stainless A2 for longer ranged shots. I shoot maybe 30 rounds a year at 200 yards for practice because $.75/round for .223 is kinda high. 77 grain would likely be even more so, but I wanted a zero closer to 62 or 55 grain ammo- my A2 is zeroed with the 68 grain ammo and 55/62 lands just 1-2 inches high at the ranges I would be using them at.

I stock American Eagle .223 for practice at 100-175 (med range) or 5-15 yards (hostage relief) because I need recoil for that training.

Anything 25-75 is plinking, .22lr is the way to go- at least for me, performance between .22le and .223 is about the same in terms of where the holes are in the paper and how fast they get there.

[Pikeman]

I would think any of the varmint grenades from Barnes, SST from Hornady or Ballistic tip from Nosler would no great. All are designed to expand rapidly and deliver max energy at impact which would limit over penetration. I shoot an injured deer in the chest with an SST at less than a yard and it did not exit the opposite leg bone. Heart and lung were mush. These rounds would not be ideal for shooting through a barrier of any kind but would not be a through and through on meat. They will cost more if your not a reloader but a box or two should last foreever unless all your neighbors have 5 or more tattoes on their faces.

[HDR]

If I did my job M193 did it's job.

All ammunition is tactical so what the enemy gets hit with isn't that important if you do your job. Your neighbors or penetrating walls in your home are a lot more important. I've read 45 230HB won't do the job yet a couple of wars and a bunch of conflicts say very differently.
A lot of magazines are or were sold and a lot of websites get hits because they "prove" this caliber or that caliber will or won't get it done; as they blissfully ignore everything from hunting to the KIA/WIA of wars.
I guess having X loaded with a huge quantity of high quality of Y equipped with the Z accessories is somehow meaningful in a world were being very lucky is much better than being very good..