Where do I find black powder pistol info?

[cciota]

I've been thinking about buying a black powder pistol for a few weeks. And after seeing linx310's thread about his new 1858 New Army, I've decide to get one. The problem is that I don't know anything about them. What size caps, which and how much powder to use, which size ball to use, which flask is the best and on and on. I've seen and read how to load and clean them, but I'm looking into the specifics. I would like to become better informed about BP.

Where is a good place to get info and what info do you guys have that could help me out instead of trial and error? Error usually cost more money.

[Gunreference1]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/uberti_new_army_syn.htm

http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/RB-Pistol-Revolvers.pdf

The 1858 New Army revolver is chambered in .44 caliber. Hopefully the links above will help.

Steve

[alismith]

Go to a book store, or sporting goods store, and look for black powder books. Any books by Sam Fadala are good as he covers almost every aspect of handling, loading, and shooting BP firearms. Every new BP revolver I've ordered from Cabela's came with a step-by-step manual on everything about BP revolvers. Another source for info is The Dixie Gun Works catalog.

http://www.dixiegun.com/

The best thing to do is ask at a local gun shop if they know anyone in your area who shoots BP and set up a time to go out with him and shoot and let him teach you how the proper procedures. Just make sure he knows how to handle BP properly.

[linx310]

You can actually buy the gun with a starter kit for about $30 more. It comes with some of the basics.

Here is a list of things you will need.

Black Powder (I use a non-corrosive replacement that washes of with water, Hodgen 777 is some really nice stuff to). If you can try to get your powder in FFF size. There are 4 sizes, F, FF, FFF, and FFFF.

Primers (Caps) - I use CCI caps and have not had a problem.

Ball ammo - Plenty of options. Try a few sizes to see what works best. If you want to shoot really cheap do what OSHK does and melt your own.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_99_311_312

Patches - I used cut paper towels.

Ball remover/Cleaning Jags - These are used to pull ammo that fails or if you want to unload it.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_321&products_id=1254

Nipple Pick & Powder Measure - Dont guess with your powder measures. The Nipple pick is used to clean out the nipple or prick a hole in the powder. This is the one I have.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_318&products_id=3719

Lubes/Bore sealer - You need some thing to lube the ammo and seal the cylinders to protect them from flashing off. I use Bore Butter, but others use crisco just fine.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_317&products_id=3766

Nipple Wrench - You need to have one these to replace any broken nipples.

Loading Stand - These will make it so much less frustrating to reload your pistol. I made my own for a few bucks, but they are cheap enough I would just buy it.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_100_354&products_id=7768

If you get the 1858 or 1860 they also have cylinder loading stands but they are pricey.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_100_354&products_id=13876

Powder flask - you use this to dump your powder into the measure. Lots to choose from. I think i got one from midwayusa for like $8 that worked well.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_100_353&sort=2a&&page=1

If you search youtube there are plenty of tutorials on how to load and shoot it.

Once you gear up with the above stuff you are set for a long time.

[cciota]

Thanks for the info guys! That will get me going in the right direction. I have two questions. What is the difference between #10 and #11 caps and why are there three different diameters of ball for a .44 caliber pistol?

Your help is very appreciated.

You know I'm going to blame all this on you, linx310, when I get the "What the hell?" from my wife.

[linx310]

Two more questions. What is the difference between a #10 and #11 cap and why are there three different diameter of ball for .44 caliber?

The cap numbers are the sizes. Most of the large pistols use #10 and #11. The 1858s seem to like #10s.

The different ball sizes exist because the ball deforms to the barrel. Some people like there ammo to grab the rifling more then the standard ammo. You really have to try them out to see which one your gun likes best. To tight and you get a leaded up barrel you need to clean more often. To loose and you lose accuracy. Most people prefer .454 sized ammo in .44 pistols.

[Kadmos]

I've gotten pretty into this stuff in the last year, it's alot of fun.

The difference in the caps and balls is giving you variety for variations in the guns.

Most of the .44 revolvers will shave a little lead ring off of a .454 ball, but some may need a .457 while others work fine with .451. You really to want to shave some off the ball when loading to get a tight seal and firm fit. If the ball just falls in then they will possibly jump forward from the recoil which can stop the cylinder from turning and possibly allow chain fires (when more than one cylinder goes off).

Caps is a finicky matter, most of mine prefer the Remingtons caps, they go off easier, the cci's may take two hits, which becomes a real problem with a revolver obviously.

On the other hand it is obvious the cci's are better made, more uniform and sometimes the priming compound falls out of the remington caps while still in the tin so you have to be careful.

For dead basics you need

the gun
a nipple wrench
powder or substitute (never modern smokeless!!!!!!)
a flask to hold the powder
a powder measure (can use spent brass...38special is about right..a bit light maybe)
overpowder wads (or some type of overball lube..crisco works) (this is a cleaning and safety thing)
balls
caps

a loading stand really does help

sorry to send you to another forum, but this thread is really good info
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207028

[alismith]

As for ball diameter, different manufacturers have different standards for their barrels. Some make their guns so they use .451, others .454, and .457 is mostly used by Ruger. If in doubt, go with .454 first. That will work well, even in one designed for .451, while a little looser in the Ruger. The instruction book that comes with your gun will specify which ball diameter their guns shoot best.

When I load my revolvers, I always pinch the cap just before I put it on the nipple. I've never had one come off when I did that. Seat them firmly and they should go off the first time the hammer hits them.

[O.S.O.K.]

What are you? New? :lol2:

Ha ha - gotcha back.

I'd add some more schit about cap and balls but its been covered pretty good thus far - now you just need to decide with one, which caliber, etc.

But I would suggest getting in on the Cabelas sale before it ends - very good prices.

[cciota]

What are you? New? :lol2:

Ha ha - gotcha back.

I'd add some more schit about cap and balls but its been covered pretty good thus far - now you just need to decide with one, which caliber, etc.

But I would suggest getting in on the Cabelas sale before it ends - very good prices.

When I saw you posted here, I knew that was coming.:lol:


Another question. If you load the cylinder using lubricated wads, you don't have to cover the ball with any type of grease or visa versa, right?

[Kadmos]

Another question. If you load the cylinder using lubricated wads, you don't have to cover the ball with any type of grease or visa versa, right?

Correct.

You can use either, neither, or both if you like.

It is best to use one or the other though, it certianly makes cleanup easier, generally allows it to shoot more shots before fouling binds up the cyclinder, and may help to prevent chainfires.

Personally I go with overpowder wads, the rammer will only push the ball so far down, its important not to have an airspace between the powder and the ball, and for less than a maximum load the wad ensures this to be a non-issue. It does really add to the price though, but it is possible to save some and make your own.

[O.S.O.K.]

Yep. I like the Ox Yoke wonder wads - they're lubed with TC bore butter. Keeps the bore nice n clean.

[cciota]

Alright, I just ordered a 1858 Remington new army, the starter kit, one pound of Hogden Triple Seven FFFG and #10 Remington caps from Cabela's.That should get me going. From what I have read and seeing the quality of the one linx310 got, I think I made a good choice. Now I just have to think up an excuse to tell my wife! You guys are a bad influence on me.:thumbsup:

Thanks for all the good info and I'm sure I'll have more questions when I get it next week.

[Kadmos]

Congrats, I think you'll enjoy it quite a bit.

[O.S.O.K.]

Tiple Seven FFFG huh... I've always used either Goex black or usually nowadays, Pyrodex P. The Triple Seven should burn somewhat cleaner... If you find that your groups are printing low, try backing off of the charge a bit - to bring them up - the Triple Seven is more energetic than the others...

[Ruskiegunlover]

I've got to get into this......going to get the springfield GI 1911, buy a couple mags off of mastiff, and then get into one of these.......how much does black powder run? Is it very expensive? I would think a pound of black powder would last a while......

any idea how long the cabelas sale will go?

[O.S.O.K.]

I haven't purchased any bp for a while - I'd suggest checking grafs, cabelas, midsouth, etc. to see what the pricing is - I'd suggest buying this locally if you're only getting one pound as the hazmat shipping will make one pound too expensive on-line.

And as far as Cabelas sale... go check it out! :)

[Kadmos]

I've got to get into this......going to get the springfield GI 1911, buy a couple mags off of mastiff, and then get into one of these.......how much does black powder run? Is it very expensive? I would think a pound of black powder would last a while......

any idea how long the cabelas sale will go?

The sale I think will end in August, it's been going on for a while. But Cabela's usually has a gun or two on sale pretty much all the time.

Real black powder runs about $20-25 a pound. But like primers there is usually a hazmat fee to have it shipped, so its nice to find a local source.

A pound is 7000 grains. Most of these revolvers use around 20 grains, so 350 shots or thereabouts. Which does take a pretty long time with a cap and ball system, it's not like a semi-auto pistol where you might go for an hour and blow 200+ rounds. Three or four loadings and most of these guns will start to bind

[Ruskiegunlover]

how do you 'unbind' them? Just clean the soot off with bore butter? Or is the binding from leading? In that case, how do you get the lead off?


In october, for our 4th annibversary, my wife and I are driving to Kansas City, going to stop by the cabelas there and I'll get one. Even if I have to pay more, so be it.....MY anniversary present....After that the plaza, then a hotel. The next day on the drive back to wichita we'll swing by my family land in burlington and shoot it a little.....


I guess I'll pay a bit more.......but I really like these remington 1858's......the whole 'pale rider' thing is cool.....

[Kadmos]

how do you 'unbind' them? Just clean the soot off with bore butter? Or is the binding from leading? In that case, how do you get the lead off?


Leading isn't too much of a problem with these, volcity is pretty low. The binding is just fouling, real black powder is pretty dirty. Just pulling the cyclinder out and wiping the face off with a rag can keep you shooting longer. A lot of people wipe the face off after each cyclinder. Although having a ramrod with a bore mop to clean the cyclinders and barrel can be real helpful as well.

Cleanup is pretty much soap and water, I think I've used a wire bore brush once or twice maybe. A wet mop does better.

When going to the range I tend to only shoot about 3-4 cyclinders, I tend to take another gun as well, either BP or something more modern.

[Ruskiegunlover]

yeah, when I get into this I'll probably only do 18-26 rounds. But a .44 bp would be cool.....Just waiting until october.....what about good leather holsters for these? And cylinder carriers?

[cciota]

yeah, when I get into this I'll probably only do 18-26 rounds. But a .44 bp would be cool.....Just waiting until october.....what about good leather holsters for these? And cylinder carriers?

When I ordered mine I got the starter kit with it . It showed up yesterday with the powder and caps that I ordered. I didn't knwo about the HazMat fee. I won't do that again. Anyway the starter kit has 30 balls, 30 lubricated wad, a tube of lubricant, an adjustible powder measure, a capper and a powder flask. The flask is being replaced ASAP. Cheap plastic. There is still some more stuff I have to order thanks to the info from the guys here.


The pistol is suppose to be here Monday. I can't wait!

Coolest part is that I called my Dad after I ordered the pistol and told him what I bought. He said he has a black powder pistol, Navy something or other, that my Grandfather gave him years ago and that he is sending to me. My Dad has never shot it. My Grandfather was a huge gun collector so I can't wait to see what it is!

I will post pics when they both arrive.

[linx310]

Coolest part is that I called my Dad after I ordered the pistol and told him what I bought. He said he has a black powder pistol, Navy something or other, that my Grandfather gave him years ago and that he is sending to me. My Dad has never shot it. My Grandfather was a huge gun collector so I can't wait to see what it is!

If its an original colt navy its worth a couple of thousand if its in decent shape and has been modified.

[cciota]

If its an original colt navy its worth a couple of thousand if its in decent shape and has been modified.

We'll see in a few days. My Dad said he had gotten a horn powder flask with it but that he had scratched it a bit trying to take it apart.