Herman Cain... we may just have THE " R" candidate for POTUS 2012

[O.S.O.K.]

I saw this gentleman on Fox News earlier today = evening report I think. I've been aware of him and his story being in the food service industry and I've always admired him. But I didn't know his political views until I heard him on the news. Wow. This may very well be THE candidate that we're looking for - that can sho-nuff wip zero's ass.

http://hermancain.com/

http://hermancain.com/grfx/hermanLogo.gif

[mriddick]

He's for the fair tax...

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes, and keep going.... it's all good.

[old Grump]

He was on the board of the Federal Reserve and backed Tarp. Still think he is conservative? Can't find a word about his stance on gun control but he defends the reserve, to many questions.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, of course we need to learn all about him.

I think the initial TARP was OK as it was designed as a loan not a gift and there was no ownership changes.....

As to the reserve, I share your derision but there are many that believe its the best system to have. Lysander will argue that one with you.

[Mark Ducati]

As a Christian, I love all people and would help anyone regardless of their sex, race, creed, sexuality, etc... however, I expect I'll be labeled a racist for my remarks... but I will not vote for an African American candidate, ever.

From my undergrad college education experience and member of student government, my doctoral education experience in how affirmative action works and my interaction with the minorities in my class, and my professor experience teaching at the university level and member for 6 years on a school of dentistry's admission's committee...

There are many, many qualified minority folks out there whom I'm sure would make a good president, doctor, leader of your community, etc...

But, its my experience over 20 years that "the system" of affirmative action pushes unqualified minorities through, and once in position... they don't know what to do and screw things up.

Sure, there are many unqualified caucasians out there too... without actually knowing the person, their background, all things considered... I'll admit that its a gamble, albeit a hedged bet in my favor, but I'm going with the cracker every time.

[Mark Ducati]

He's for the fair tax...

And obongo was for hope and change? obongo promised a lot things too but never delivered on...

[mriddick]

Don't worry no one has to label you a racist, I think you did that on your own :) If that's the only thing you have against the guy I would just avoid the discussion all together.

Back to the thread...
I'm a moderate on the fed, I think it's needed although Congress needs to takes it's oversight much more seriously then they have in the past. His support for the tarp is much more worrisome although I'd like to hear his reasoning.

[justinsaneok]

Ron Paul for 2012

[justinsaneok]

Ron Paul for 2012

Read my signature!

[NewbieAKguy]

Ron Paul for 2012

Not going to happen, regardless of the CPAC poll, which by the way Romney polled 2nd. Sec. of Interior or head of DHS? Sure.

Is it just me or was CPAC a bit...."off" this year?

[ubersoldate]

As a Christian,but I will not vote for an African American candidate, ever..

Heck yea, Im sure Jesus himself would say the same thing!

Man, Mark, you never cease to amaze.

[Mark Ducati]

Heck yea, Im sure Jesus himself would say the same thing!

Man, Mark, you never cease to amaze.

Uber, when you quoted me, you omitted some info... I said that as a Christian, I love all people and would help anyone regardless of their race, creed, sexuality, or whatever... but that I will never vote for an African American President. Refusing to vote for who you to believe to perhaps be an unqualified candidate has nothing to do with love.

That's because I have had too many first hand experiences with affirmative action...

Case in point, dental school admissions committee... one year, I saw 10 qualified caucasian kids kicked off the admitted list as presented to the president of the school... he crossed the bottom 10 names off and said "give me the next 10 black kids, I don't care what their grades are"... every one of those 10 had a 2.something undergrad GPA and were always struggling academically and were at the bottom of their class.

A few years go, I had a mini-stroke... the African American ER doctor that was moonlighting up here in the rural mountains MISSED all the classic signs of my stroke and kept telling me that I had Epilepsy and had a seizure. (I didn't sue them, but they did write off ER visit when another hospital gave me the right diagnosis and treatment and I showed them why).

I can't imagine that medical school, law school, is any different in their affirmative action? How about the space program? Again, sure there are qualified minorities out there, and I'm sure some minority dentists better skilled than I... all I'm saying, is I'm not willing to take that chance.

Loving and liking people are two different things... kinda like family, you gotta love them, but doesn't mean you have to like them...

I love all people, if there's a need, I'll give you food/money/clothing/help with work whoever you are... but that doesn't mean I want a neighbor that will paint his house funny colors, boom rap music from his car's subwoofer and dress like a gangster, I don't care if your white or black.

Maybe I'm digging the hole deeper, but you asked... so I'm explaining how I feel. And for the record, there are many here who may not say so publicly in a thread like this, but they feel the exact same way as I've many PM conversations in past and present discussing this. At least I have the balls to call it as it is.

[btcave]

Mark, I understand what you are saying. You may not want to write off a minority until you see his history, his works, or his pedigree. They could surprise you.

I had a black neurosurgeon do back surgery on me last month. He did a fine job, and knew what he was doing.

[FunkyPertwee]

As a Christian, I love all people and would help anyone regardless of their sex, race, creed, sexuality, etc... however, I expect I'll be labeled a racist for my remarks... but I will not vote for an African American candidate, ever.

From my undergrad college education experience and member of student government, my doctoral education experience in how affirmative action works and my interaction with the minorities in my class, and my professor experience teaching at the university level and member for 6 years on a school of dentistry's admission's committee...

There are many, many qualified minority folks out there whom I'm sure would make a good president, doctor, leader of your community, etc...

But, its my experience over 20 years that "the system" of affirmative action pushes unqualified minorities through, and once in position... they don't know what to do and screw things up.

Sure, there are many unqualified caucasians out there too... without actually knowing the person, their background, all things considered... I'll admit that its a gamble, albeit a hedged bet in my favor, but I'm going with the cracker every time.

I understand this point of view, and while I don't think it is racist per se, as you don't seem to believe in inherent inferiority in blacks, but it is a broad sweeping generalization that excludes many qualified individuals.

I haven't decided whether or not I could support him for president, but I have no doubt about his credentials. I don't think affirmative action is enough to put a man in his position.

[swampdragon]

He was on the board of the Federal Reserve and backed Tarp......

Both of those things just killed it for me completely.
His color is irrelevant.

[O.S.O.K.]

I've experienced reverse discrimination in my career too. I was passed up twice for a promised promotion. I was so pissed off that I was very open to leaving the company and taking another job - which I did. Upon exiting, my very surprised superiors asked me why in the world I would leave - after all, I was a rising star, etc. I told them. Oops, they said, we should have communicated with you - you were'nt really being passed up, we were just filling the quota's that we had - with blacks... people that I know to have done nothing impressive.

It cost them though as I left anyway - and all of the training that they invested in me was lost - not to mention that I could've done them a lot of good.

Regardless - that was 20 years ago.

Learn about this man and his accomplishments and discover his stance on current policies before you dismiss him based on something as petty as his race.

Being for the fair tax (national sales tax) to replace our regressive and destructive income tax system is a hell of a good start. He is on record with a lot of things being a radio show host so I am sure we will be able to find out more and be able to make a judgement based on that.

I like Ron Paul, but he is not electable. He's dug a hole for himself that he won't be able to climb out of. I agree with most of what the man stands for... but he will never carry enough of the vote to get elected.

We need somebody like Mr. Cain who will come in and immediately set to work to fix our system which is very fucked up.

[O.S.O.K.]

Another thought: assuming that Cain is worthy of the position, how cool would it be for the tea party/republicans to put a black man into the office that reforms our government and saves the day - on the heels of zero?

What an object lesson.

[matshock]

Yeah, he's more of an insider than I would like too- but I'd vote for him over Zero.

Realistically the only train wreck candidate out here right now is Romney. If the Tea Party does anything for 2012 they should start tearing down the facade of conservatism he's built starting now.

[mriddick]

I understand this point of view, and while I don't think it is racist per se, as you don't seem to believe in inherent inferiority in blacks, but it is a broad sweeping generalization that excludes many qualified individuals.

I haven't decided whether or not I could support him for president, but I have no doubt about his credentials. I don't think affirmative action is enough to put a man in his position.
IMO it's racist because he stated he'd never vote for a black "ever" no matter what a guy could do he's not ever going to vote for him solely because of his skin color. If that's not racist I don't what is.

But back to the thread, I'm not ruling anyone out at this point that is pro gun or for getting the budget under control. I don't like his support of TARP, afterall that was the final reason I couldn't vote for McCain but if he's recanted that, it wouldn't necessarily stop me voting for the guy. As I've said the Fed thing doesn't bother me if he's for opening it up some to oversight, I don't have an issue with the fed as much as I have a problem with a secretive fed. At this point if a candidate is for shrinking the deficit and is progun I can probably forgive alot of other stuff.

[HDR]

I think the initial TARP was OK as it was designed as a loan not a gift and there was no ownership changes.....

OK??


TARP
Where's All The TARP Money?
Liz Moyer, 02.05.09, 12:01 AM EST
A new report tries to lift the veil on the massive banking bailout program.

The watchdog for the Troubled Asset Relief Program will push banks and other companies that got federal bailout money to detail what they plan to do with it. Why? The government hasn't asked.

According to a new report issued early Thursday, 317 financial firms have received $194.2 billion in TARP funds from the U.S. Department of the Treasury since October, but only two of them--Citigroup (nyse: C - news - people ) and Bank of America (nyse: BAC - news - people )--were required to say what they would do with it the money. As of Jan. 23, $293.7 billion of TARP funds have already been spent, the report says.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/04/tarp-treasury-congress-business-beltway_0205_tarp.html
So Cain was involved?


"will also ask the companies to document how the funds were used and to give the inspector general's office accuracy certifications."

I wonder if the "Inspector General" did ask politely or did he ask at all...

Why would anyone expect accountability with handing out taxpayer money.

[old Grump]

To be fair Cain was a board member and chairman of the Fed reserve bank of Kansas city in 98 so I doubt the stuff we are all excited about was something he had much control or say over. However he was a staunch supporter of the TARP program when it originated and to critics aganst the Fed Reserve he gave a pretty comprehensive defense of the Fed. I have no idea how he feels about the mess its in now, like where is the missing 9 trillion the Feds cannot account for. If we were responsible for that kind of loss we would be locked up for years and I doubt it would be minimum security facility.

[HDR]

That's because I have had too many first hand experiences with affirmative action...

Case in point, dental school admissions committee... one year, I saw 10 qualified caucasian kids kicked off the admitted list as presented to the president of the school... he crossed the bottom 10 names off and said "give me the next 10 black kids, I don't care what their grades are"... every one of those 10 had a 2.something undergrad GPA and were always struggling academically and were at the bottom of their class.


As you mentioned affirmative action did the school have a choice? Affirmative action was a fiasco because the idiots who wrote it based it on quotas.

Quotas only work when there are enough qualified applicants.

[HDR]

Ron Paul for 2012

After his exit from the last race? Nah.


However he was a staunch supporter of the TARP program when it originated and to critics aganst the Fed Reserve he gave a pretty comprehensive defense of the Fed. I

There isn't any defense for handing out taxpayer money without any expectations of accountability. A better move would have been to get pissed when he learned about it.

[old Grump]

There isn't any defense for handing out taxpayer money without any expectations of accountability. A better move would have been to get pissed when he learned about it. I agree but being a pretty successful business man and being on the board I would think he was trying to justify his being there. It was a pretty big feather in his cap.

[Schuetzenman]

Cain was the CEO of Godfathers Pizza chain. He saved it from bankrupcy during his tenur in that position. Until recently he had an evening conservative talk radio show on 780 AM / 95.5 FM. He understands finances, captialism, how money is actually made in the private sector. He is not a big Governement type. I'm not certain about his stance on firearms ownership but I think it is pro firearm ownership. Need to find out more about that one.

For most of his opinions he's voiced on his former radio program I would find it far easier to vote for him than McCain and for damn sure Obama.

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes, we need to find out more.

And yes, I think the idea of TARP was sound - you use the money to temporarily prop up a vital industry and then it's paid back. That was the idea.

Stimulous bill? That's a whole nother ball game.

[ubersoldate]

Refusing to vote for who you to believe to perhaps be an unqualified candidate has nothing to do with love.


Well being unqualified is one thing, of course you shouldn't, but saying, that no matter what, you will never vote for a black person, well that statement says it all.

Id vote for a black woman for that matter, Condi for prez!

[ubersoldate]

IMO it's racist because he stated he'd never vote for a black "ever" no matter what a guy could do he's not ever going to vote for him solely because of his skin color. If that's not racist I don't what is.

.

Yup.

[samiam]

How about Russel Honore (LTG USA ret.)? we haven't had a "leader" in a while

[NewbieAKguy]

If having less than 2 years of U.S. Senator under one's belt makes a person qualified for Prez, then is it logical for someone being a U.S. Rep. for 2 years or less make him/her qualified?...cough Alan West cough. :).

[swampdragon]

I really like Godfather's pizza....

[shotdown61]

Listen to him here in ATL. And yes,I would vote for him

[HDR]

I agree but being a pretty successful business man and being on the board I would think he was trying to justify his being there. It was a pretty big feather in his cap.

Maybe to them; to me it shows he either didn't do his job or he was just a figurehead on a Board filled with figureheads. My opinion is not different than if he was a member of the Board at Enron. Being a successful businessman means he should have known better; just the same as Martha Stewart who as a former Stock Broker should have known better.
Point is, a failure happened under his watch.

As Limbaugh, Hannity and others are successful businessmen and tv or radio talk show hosts. That doesn't mean I would vote for them or believe they would make a good president.
YMMV..

[mriddick]

If having less than 2 years of U.S. Senator under one's belt makes a person qualified for Prez, then is it logical for someone being a U.S. Rep. for 2 years or less make him/her qualified?...cough Alan West cough. :).

Correct, people talking of the unqualified guy better watch it if Palin ever runs.

[Mark Ducati]

As for the school's quota... there never was or is a quota to this day. Its all about the school President's warm feelings inside to allow unqualified candidates admissions.

When he have the directive to up the enrollment of minorities... The chairperson made a ranking system (not my making or input) that gave points based upon where you went to undergrad, what part of Georgia you were from (applicants from rural areas that need dentists are more likely to return to those underserved areas), and minority status.... the point system was used to award points to applicants for the sole purpose of getting them an interview with 2 members of the admission's committee... Then the president told us we couldn't give points because of "minority status", so that practice ended.

The problem with "dental school" is that the qualified applicants out there, do not view dentistry as a viable career for some reason... we talked about the school of dentistry supporting "career day" in minority schools... but that went no where.

So after the president of the school told us to "x" off the last 10 white kids at the bottom of the list and give him the next 10 black kids regardless of their GPA that's when a handful of us resigned from the admissions committee.... the only ones that stayed on were those career oriented trying to make tenure. I was planning on leaving with a year anyways...

I really don't like the idea of voting for a minority person for President of our country... if that makes me a "racist" in your mind so be it! Perhaps when I said "never", that may have been too strong, but it was in black and white text and I can't take it back now... but I will use the term "never" right now as I have put genuine thought into my response right now. I have NEVER met a qualified african-american doctor/lawyer/dentist/or any other career where that person could have governing power over you, or possibly affect the outcome of your healthcare, or lifestyle in a negative way.

IF YOU have had a positive experience with an african-american doctor/dentist... good for you and I'm glad for it. But what was so good about it? Lets use dentistry for an example, and this goes for whether the dentist is white or minority... even if you came to see me. All YOU know, is how much it cost, how much it hurt, and what the personal interaction (bedside manner) was like... you have absolutely no way to gauge competence.

Just because someone passes a board exam doesn't make them competent... I've seen students struggle their whole dental school years and have a good day on single board exam day because they chose the easiest cavity to fix.

I guess when I say that I feel uncomfortable voting for a minority, its because I've had so many negative experiences and have had privileged access as to how some of them get through dental school that it makes me question how other professional schools whether medicine/engineering/law/etc operate in their admissions process and how they coddle students through school just as the dental school in GA does?

So, unless a minority candidate's background can some how be substantiated to my satisfaction (which I have no idea how to do so), I don't feel comfortable voting for a minority as its taking a risk in my mind.

In 6 years of serving in the School of Dentistry, I probably taught 60 african-american students... and they were nice kids. But there was only ONE out of 60 that I would let drill on my teeth because I've seen his work, his work ethic, the quality of his care first hand... the others, I wouldn't let work on YOUR dog! I'm sorry my experience in the dental school has made me so negative, but that was my experience... out of the 60, over the years, there were at least 7-8 minority students that were caught cheating on exams and they were never reprimanded other than being made to repeat the exam. If a caucasian kid did that, he'd be out on his ear.

One of those YMMV things in life... the miles I've dealt with on the minority road have been pretty bumpy... The minority doctor who mis-diagnosed my stroke, potentially put my life at risk by not making the correct assessment and getting me on blood thinners right away. The only thing that saved me was my own habit of taking genuine Aspirin for aches/pains over tylenol/ibuprofen.

Maybe you've had a smoother ride than I with the occasional pot-hole here or there... but that's not the road I drove on. I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I'm not trying to defend myself per say, I'm simply stating my experiences with no exaggeration or embellishment.

[crapshoot]

I'm sure jesus approves of your white supremacy even though he is jewish. jesus always backs white power as long as you klan boys say so!

[Integratedj]

Another thought: assuming that Cain is worthy of the position, how cool would it be for the tea party/republicans to put a black man into the office that reforms our government and saves the day - on the heels of zero?

What an object lesson.

West would be a much better choice.
Any one for the "Fair Tax" Is really for fucking us in another fashion than we currently are and telling us it's not getting fucked. The Fair tax is a damn scam.
A flat 12-14% only consumption tax would be much more "Fair".

[HDR]

As for the school's quota... there never was or is a quota to this day. Its all about the school President's warm feelings inside to allow unqualified candidates admissions.

Thanks for furnishing me the missing link. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Next is where it gets nasty because my guess is we are in agreement the President should be terminated without regard to seniority or tenure.

Mark, what you said is your right to say because you said it without bigotry or "trash talking." America's weakness is a person's right to an opinion is spun and twisted into racism simply because you witnessed reverse racism.
A non performing black woman threatened her supervisor where my daughter used to work. The woman had done it before to another supervisor so for years management was afraid to deal with her. As the new supervisor's son is biracial it didn't work.
There is justice some times.

[matshock]

West would be a much better choice.
Any one for the "Fair Tax" Is really for fucking us in another fashion than we currently are and telling us it's not getting fucked. The Fair tax is a damn scam.
A flat 12-14% only consumption tax would be much more "Fair".

Let's face it- 12-14% on consumption is a pipe dream based on the current level of government dependency. Not even most life-long Republicans are ready for what 12-14% on consumption means in terms of military budgets, social security and Medicare.

I'm all for it but if that were my price for my vote I wouldn't be expecting to cast one in 2012. 20-25% on consumption might be more doable for starters- then we can ratchet it down from there.

Just moving to tax on consumption would be a great coup because it’s a simple metric we can get a handle on and really start cutting from there- heck we could fire 50% of the IRS on day 1.

Edit: and now that I think about it a flat tax on consumption would put an end to welfare folks getting free cash money just for filling out a return every year.

[HDR]

I'm all for it but if that were my price for my vote I wouldn't be expecting to cast one in 2012. 20-25% on consumption might be more doable for starters- then we can ratchet it down from there.

I agree with your 20-25% VAT and use the extra to pay down the debt. The problem is a 22.95 box of ammunition would cost 25 to almost $29 and I can hear the screams already.
It is a simple metric; no taxes except a tax on what you spend. So if you spend a very little you'll clean up. ;)

[Lysander]

West would be a much better choice.
Any one for the "Fair Tax" Is really for fucking us in another fashion than we currently are and telling us it's not getting fucked. The Fair tax is a damn scam.
A flat 12-14% only consumption tax would be much more "Fair".

How so?

You remove all payroll and corporate taxes, thus doing away with 22% embedded taxes, and then apply 22% nationally on the sale of consumer goods. Much better than a VAT (which adds cost at every stage of production).

You then rebate the tax spent buying the necessities of life, thus leveling the playing field for rich and poor.

No one gets an exemption, no special interests or breaks. If someone wants to raise the tax rate, it is on all of us, not just select groups.

So please, explain how it's a scam.

[swampdragon]

Correct, people talking of the unqualified guy better watch it if Palin ever runs.

LOL....true.
She resigned before her term was even over.
I don't want to vote for somebody who just quits when the job gets hard.

[ubersoldate]

LOL....true.
She resigned before her term was even over.
I don't want to vote for somebody who just quits when the job gets hard.

On this we agree 100%.
But she was wasting the tax payers money right?
Haha, her agent told her she was wasting a perfect advantage of making millions, writting a book, become a self appointed head of the tea party, and being a reality TV star.

[HDR]

Correct, people talking of the unqualified guy better watch it if Palin ever runs.

A lot of people agree with what she says. Although I admit thoughts of her full bore attack on corruption would be a rip to watch in DC; it doesn't make her my choice. I know 2012 is coming and to be honest I don't see anyone I really like yet; all I know is no matter who runs against 0bama gets my vote. Which really sucks; however this nation can't withstand another term by 0bama.
No more appointments, no more borrowing, no executive orders, no more jumping through China's hoop so we can borrow more money, in short no more 0bama is the most important thing in 2012. That is the reality of 2012 and let's not kid ourselves.

[O.S.O.K.]

West would be a much better choice.
Any one for the "Fair Tax" Is really for fucking us in another fashion than we currently are and telling us it's not getting fucked. The Fair tax is a damn scam.
A flat 12-14% only consumption tax would be much more "Fair".

I like Alan West too - but he hasn't got the experience that Herman Cain has... yet.

And as far as the fair tax is concerned, you are arguing against our Founding Fathers. This is the ONLY tax that they allowed for in the Constitution.

A fair tax is an "apportioned" tax. A sales tax in today's terminology.

The regressive income tax would be abolished. A national sales tax would be put in its place - everybody that buys anything - pays 15% (for example).

Right now, the very wealthy, those getting cash for compensation or running a cash business and anybody doing any commerce and making money in the "black market" (can you say billions of dollars of illegal drug commerce a year?) PAY NO TAX OR A MUCH REDUCED TAX than anybody that is working for somebody or doing their business with credit cards, etc. = on the record.

And tricks and tools like trust funds wouldn't allow the families that have them avoid paying taxes any longer -they'd have to start paying for their high-level of consumption like it or not. Kennedy family cough cough.

Do you have any idea how much NEW revinue this would bring in? AND ABOUT FUCKING TIME!!!!

Furthermore, the IRS could be reduced to about 10% of its current size as most "data points" (this is citizens) would be eliminated and replaced with businesses that must collect the sales tax and pay it to the fed govt - just like they already do for the state and locality where they are.

A damn scam?

[stevelyn]

Another thought: assuming that Cain is worthy of the position, how cool would it be for the tea party/republicans to put a black man into the office that reforms our government and saves the day - on the heels of zero?

What an object lesson.

Cain's association with the Feral Reserve killed it for me too. I think I'll hold out for Allen West. At least he's not afraid to a call a spade a spade.


Rookie U.S. Rep. Allen West delivered a stinging indictment of his colleagues in a letter to constituents in which he rails about House members’ “ignorance, belligerence, and dishonest rhetoric.” Without naming names, but clearly implying that he was including President Barack Obama, the Florida Republican also decried Washington’s interference with Wisconsin’s budget turmoil. The text of the letter to residents of Florida's 22nd District:


U.S. Rep Allen West
“Over this past week I have watched and listened to members of the House of Representatives from across the aisle.

“I am appalled at their ignorance, belligerence, and dishonest rhetoric filled with empty emotional platitudes. Have they no shame in realizing that their inept, incompetent failures are the reason why we are debating this continuing resolution. They failed to pass a budget during the 111th Congress.

“Have they no honor in realizing that their fiscal irresponsibility over the past four years has resulted in our standing on the precipice of a fiscal canyon from which we may not recover.

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/AllenWest-Wisconsin-president/2011/02/18/id/386650?s=al&promo_code=BB57-1

[old Grump]

Alan Keyes man myself, I know he is pro constitution all the way up and down the line. Unlike most of the other candidates we have had running for office he actually has a PHD and experience in foreign affairs. I could see Cain running second seat with Keyes in the oval office. That would drive the libs nuts and make all the Obama voters wonder if they had it wrong the first time. Just imagine two American citizens whose academic and working careers are open books running for president against a slate of Muslim lovers and flag haters.

[O.S.O.K.]

I think it would more likely be Cain-Keyes - Cain is used to the top job... Keyes has tried and tried and tried and would probably be happy to have a big VP roll.

And it would be so fun to watch all of the libs wrestling with thier hypocrasy :coffee:

[old Grump]

To many questions on Cain for me to be able to vote for him as top dog. One of the reasons I am no longer a Republican, to many Republicans are to willing to compromise and dissemble their ethics, assuming they have any to compromise.

Keyes didn't make it because he spoke the unvarnished truth, add to that he wasn't a charismatic speaker same problem Paul has and he wasn't pretty. It was easy to dismiss him by the easy to sway mid line Republicans to whom power and office were more more important than duty to their country.

Cain on the other hand has a long history of achievement and he is charismatic big time compared to Keyes and Paul. Add that he doesn't talk much about upsetting subjects like religion and abortion. His business and bank experience gives him a leg up on Obama on understanding finances and economics and he has real world work experience unlike our current White House resident. We could do worse and I look at all of these traits but I am kind of anal on the 2nd. If I don't get a strong positive reading on that then the rest don't count as much as they probably should. I admit I am biased and on this subject I will not compromise.

[mriddick]

I just set the bar pretty low, the sad part was in 2008 no one could even hit the loiw bar....

[matshock]

To many questions on Cain for me to be able to vote for him as top dog. One of the reasons I am no longer a Republican, to many Republicans are to willing to compromise and dissemble their ethics, assuming they have any to compromise.

Keyes didn't make it because he spoke the unvarnished truth, add to that he wasn't a charismatic speaker same problem Paul has and he wasn't pretty. It was easy to dismiss him by the easy to sway mid line Republicans to whom power and office were more more important than duty to their country.

Cain on the other hand has a long history of achievement and he is charismatic big time compared to Keyes and Paul. Add that he doesn't talk much about upsetting subjects like religion and abortion. His business and bank experience gives him a leg up on Obama on understanding finances and economics and he has real world work experience unlike our current White House resident. We could do worse and I look at all of these traits but I am kind of anal on the 2nd. If I don't get a strong positive reading on that then the rest don't count as much as they probably should. I admit I am biased and on this subject I will not compromise.

I think Keyes is plenty charismatic and an excellent orator.

The problem is the other thing you mentioned- the truth.

No one wants to hear the truth:

1. We're broke, the government you trusted to manage your daily life stole and squandered your money with the help of foreign governments.

2. Moral relativism numbed you into the dupes that you are.

3. There's no easy way out for anybody and those that have put in the least effort so far have to put in the most effort going forward.

Or we can settle the matter with a civil war or enjoy unending squalor as a third world nation.

The irony is it won't matter if no one will vote for the truth...

[kathy]

Both of those things just killed it for me completely.
His color is irrelevant.

Me too, I was feeling optimistic about him and 2012 in general. Now thats on hold. We have to end the fed.

[Warthogg]

We have to end the fed.

Yup.......dump ALL the debt owed to foreign countries into the Federal Reserve Bank and then bankrupt the Fed.

If there is another way out of this debacle I cannot see it.


Wart

[Lysander]

Me too, I was feeling optimistic about him and 2012 in general. Now thats on hold. We have to end the fed.

And replace it with what, exactly?

[Warthogg]

And replace it with what, exactly?

Prolly a central bank. (Though I would just hire the Germans.)



Wart

[Lysander]

Prolly a central bank. (Though I would just hire the Germans.)



Wart

Who would control this central bank?

[old Grump]

Prolly a central bank. (Though I would just hire the Germans.)



WartSub department in the U. S. Department of the Treasury would be the logical place to put an economist in charge of a central bank assuming we go with a central bank.