Self-sufficiency- food

[Goodman]

It's great to have the shelves stocked with cans, but if it really goes south we'll all be needing to rethink where our food comes from, especially in winter.
I think Mark Ducati is right, and it is a great time to start looking at home canning and preserving. Once you need to it is too late. Start picking up mason jars before you think you need them 'cause by then it will be too little too late.
http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.php?7213-Mark-s-Canning-Thread&p=100355#post100355

ETA: I usually keep this kind of opinion to myself and end up self-righteous after the fact. I feel very strongly about this and encourage everyone to look into it.

[O.S.O.K.]

Oh yeah, food is one of the basics - air, shelter, water, food.

Canning is great if you have a good environment for growing a couple of crops and extends the harvest through the winter months. I totally agree that we should be setup to do this.

I will add that the construction of a basic greenhouse using thick mill plastic over a tubular frame would also extend the growing of fresh veggies through the winter months and get ready for the next outdoor season by starting plants in the greenhouse. And if you are really clever, you can incorporate a small fish farm into the greenhouse - tilapia and catfish can be raised this way - under the plant beds. The fish poo is filtered out and deposited into the plant beds - a great combo.

[Integratedj]

Aquaponics is great. You can also do Crayfish in them.

[O.S.O.K.]

Aquaponics is great. You can also do Crayfish in them.
So what, one crawfish boil a year? :lool:

Or could you raise enough for two? :)

[Integratedj]

So what, one crawfish boil a year? :lool:

Or could you raise enough for two? :)



The tanks I've seen are around 800-1000 gallon tanks. From what I saw the Aussie's seem to do really well with them.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well it would be a supplimental thing... so if you could raise enough to have a meal every other week or so, that would be pretty good. Especially if you also had say, chickens and goats - eggs ansd milk and occasional meat... to go with.

[Integratedj]

Something a lot of people don't think about, or do and then gross themselves out, is Crickets. Seriously, if they are done right they are great. They breed quickly and can be very sustaining if you keep their numbers up. I am going to be setting up a couple of tanks to use for breeding them later this spring, both for my consumption, and as a supplement for the Chickens if I get off my ass and get a few and a coop setup soon enough.

[Mark Ducati]

I've got one of those canning enamelled pots (black with the white speckled spots), lid, tongs to pick up the jars, lid magnet, cage to lower several jars in at once...

So far, the only thing I've canned are tomatoes and peppers from our garden, home-made salsa/pasta sauce from our tomatoes, and banana/hot peppers all in vinegar.... I've also canned some small cukes bought from the grocery store to make sweet pickles with the seasoning you buy in a packet next to the jars in the grocery store. Tomatoes and peppers were good... but the pickles (spears and sliced) tasted good but were really "mushy".

This summer, I'd like to can some corn and green beans... but I think you need one of those "pressure pots" with a pressure gauge on it.

For those that can or want to know how to can for survival... this question is almost like asking how many mags or how much ammo should you keep on hand?

But realistically, you can only can as much food as you can harvest...

I'm curious though... for those that do can for the above purpose... I agree, when the SHTF and people panic you won't be able to buy enough mason jars/lids/rings....

Even though you may not use them right away... just like ammo, how many jars do you or would you like to have on hand? 100 pint jars? 100 half or full quart jars?

Jars/lids/rings are relatively inexpensive... I've got a couple dozen jars, but I'm thinking for the small garden we have I'm thinking about 100 jars would be nice... 100 Jars isn't a lot of veggies, but would be a nice side dish (half quart to quart size) that would be a welcome addition to freeze dried food for a few months?

[Mark Ducati]

BTW, canning we generally talk about vegetables from the garden...

But what about fruit? I wonder if the higher sugar content is a problem for canning?

This spring I plan to plant a dozen trees on our property, I wish I had done it last year! I want to plant half apples and half pears... maybe a cherry or even a peach tree.

By spring 2013 2 years later we might get "some" fruit... each year, hopefully more.

So, ever can your own fruit?

[rahatlakhoom]

We made some Concord grape preserves a few years ago.
Not a problem with fruit as long as you reach a good sustained boiling point and
quickly pour into jars then seal on the lids. The cooling will create an intense
vacuum. Use some fruit pectin for thickness. Should be good to go.

Make sure to stock a reserve of seeds.
I have a PVC airtight container of heirloom seeds.
I am also lucky that white tail deer traverse my back
acreage like cattle. I am not a deer hunter, but could be.

[Mark Ducati]

I bought some heirloom seeds in a #10 Mountain House type can from http://www.nitro-pak.com

With cool temps... stored properly... IIRC, they claimed a 16 year shelf life.

[Integratedj]

Mark, High sugar content helps act as a preservative.
We just did about 60 pounds of Strawberries. Most were made into Preserves and Jams, and a good amount was dehydrated. That and my wife made some really awesome Strawberry cheesecakes for me to get fatter on.

[O.S.O.K.]

P90 :)

And crickets are good - for the chickens and crawfish. Actually, and this is gross but crawfish can actually eat feces... nasty I know but in a true survival situation it would be good to know. Human feces actually has a lot of nutrients left in it...

When dried, it also (like all scat) makes a passable fuel, thought I don't think I would want to cook over it :lool:

[El Laton Caliente]

Harbor Freight has some reasonable green houses: http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=green+house

Follow the links in the customer ratings thought, they are not easily assembled and need extra parts, but on sale they are well less than half the price of better kits.

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_2678.jpg

As far as crayfish, look into fresh water prawns; more meat, faster growing and I think they taste better.

[O.S.O.K.]

That's interesting - I was looking at greenhouses on youtube this morning... mosty "hoop" construction but I like that much better.

I'd thought of just using hog wire to make the frame - 6" weld wire in 6'x4' sections and then got thick mil plastic. In Texas, it's mostly to keep the vermin out - grasshoppers ate everything out of the garden one year... and there's always cutworms, etc. and a good greenhouse would eliminate the need for pesticides - so much.

[El Laton Caliente]

Just remember that the one I posted has useless instructions and you will need double the clips that come with it. Most people add wind bracing also. They aren't easy to put together, but make a really nice greenhouse when finished. One that size should keep a family well supplied over the winter and give a real early start for the spring garden.

I have one on my list when time and money allow...

Read through the comments and there will be links to blogs of people that have assembled them. They also need extra bracing around the door, it is a design flaw.

[El Laton Caliente]

Here are a couple links that have info on those. They aren't the best but your getting a $3,000 to $5,000 greenhouse for under $1K....

http://www.gardenweb.com/

http://hfgh10x12.blogspot.com/2007/08/this-is-greenhouse-we-bought-link-it.html

[robert]

remember the three bs of military planning /beans/bullets/bandages/.

[rshaneck2002]

You guys keep talking about canning veggies,you can do the same with meat. When younger we used to can venison in ball jars,my uncle called it "cold packing", Keep on the self for yrs as long as the seal didnt pop. He would chunk it out and use like a stew meat with tatters and such. Basically you can "jar" just about anything that you can eat, Ball jars are great but its a dying art. Most people believe theres to much labor in it today,they just never felt a few hunger pains. What makes me mad is that most things in this area are free info on the internet,not so with this everyone wants you to buy a book to learn how to use canning jars. Damn should have paid more attention when g-ma was doing it in the fall as a child,she would put up 12-1500 jars of various veggies every yr and fruits. Like i said dying art,and a shame too, always good to pop a jar open in Jan from the last summer. Hell im 57 and i dont remember much on how to do it,so i know sure as hell these young people would be lost.

[O.S.O.K.]

Young people... my wife is a teacher. And I'm a scouter (boy scout leader).

Believe me, most all people under the age of 25 don't know how to do shit - I mean cook, field dress an animal or buther it, sew, garden, simple fix-its, etc. - they sure know all of the high-tech stuff but the basics? They are extremely lost.

All three of my kids are well versed in as much as we could get them to learn - cooking for sure, guns, shooting, handloading, basic repair of things, handling game - hunting and fishing, etc.

But they are odd-balls and in a small minority.

[Goodman]

You guys keep talking about canning veggies,you can do the same with meat. When younger we used to can venison in ball jars,my uncle called it "cold packing", Keep on the self for yrs as long as the seal didnt pop. He would chunk it out and use like a stew meat with tatters and such. Basically you can "jar" just about anything that you can eat, Ball jars are great but its a dying art. Most people believe theres to much labor in it today,they just never felt a few hunger pains. What makes me mad is that most things in this area are free info on the internet,not so with this everyone wants you to buy a book to learn how to use canning jars. Damn should have paid more attention when g-ma was doing it in the fall as a child,she would put up 12-1500 jars of various veggies every yr and fruits. Like i said dying art,and a shame too, always good to pop a jar open in Jan from the last summer. Hell im 57 and i dont remember much on how to do it,so i know sure as hell these young people would be lost.

Your Grandma almost certainly had the Ball Bluebook, and it is still only $7-8. The fact that canning IS such a dying art is a good reason to pick up a well composed and organized book or two. It's not so easy to just have Mom over and ask how long to boil those jars of beef stew- like would have been done back when.
Your point IS accurate though in saying all the info is on the net for those that want to look it up.

[El Laton Caliente]

Temp is more important than time.

[Lysander]

P90 :)

And crickets are good - for the chickens and crawfish. Actually, and this is gross but crawfish can actually eat feces... nasty I know but in a true survival situation it would be good to know. Human feces actually has a lot of nutrients left in it...

When dried, it also (like all scat) makes a passable fuel, thought I don't think I would want to cook over it :lool:

Unless you're a big fan of Typhoid Fever, Dysentery, and E Coli, I'd dispose of feces in something like a septic tank and learn the maintenance of that tank. Personally, I'd rather control all the variables I possibly can rather than create another set that can go tragically wrong.

As someone who's had dysentery, I can honestly tell you that it is not fun.

[HDR]

So what, one crawfish boil a year? :lool:

Or could you raise enough for two? :)

As a prepper's stores are finite not infinite, have enough for how long is the question.


Something a lot of people don't think about, or do and then gross themselves out, is Crickets. Seriously, if they are done right they are great. They breed quickly and can be very sustaining if you keep their numbers up. I am going to be setting up a couple of tanks to use for breeding them later this spring, both for my consumption, and as a supplement for the Chickens if I get off my ass and get a few and a coop setup soon enough.

Termites have a lot of protein.

"Can eating insects help fight hunger and promote biodiversity?
Yes, but only if Westerners can get over "the yuck factor," explains Gene DeFoliart, professor emeritus at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and promoter of insects as food."

"Insects often contain more protein, fat, and carbohydrates than equal amounts of beef or fish, and a higher energy value than soybeans, maize, beef, fish, lentils, or other beans. According to a 2004 United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) report, caterpillars of many species are rich in potassium, calcium, magnesium, zinc, and iron, as well as B-vitamins. In some African regions, children fight malnutrition by eating flour made out of dried caterpillars. Pregnant and nursing women as well as anemic people also eat caterpillar species high in protein, calcium, and iron. "
http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/ZooGoer/2005/4/edibleinsects.cfm

[Integratedj]

Unless you're a big fan of Typhoid Fever, Dysentery, and E Coli, I'd dispose of feces in something like a septic tank and learn the maintenance of that tank. Personally, I'd rather control all the variables I possibly can rather than create another set that can go tragically wrong.

As someone who's had dysentery, I can honestly tell you that it is not fun.


I'm right there with you on that. That was one of the most miserable times I have ever had in my life.
I would never use Human, dog, cat, or other meat eating animals shit as a fertilizer. There is way to much of a chance of pathogen transfer. I have no way of getting my compost piles hot enough to be sure it was all killed off.

[Integratedj]

As a prepper's stores are finite not infinite, have enough for how long is the question.



Termites have a lot of protein.

"Can eating insects help fight hunger and promote biodiversity?
Yes, but only if Westerners can get over "the yuck factor," explains Gene DeFoliart, professor emeritus at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and promoter of insects as food."

"Insects often contain more protein, fat, and carbohydrates than equal amounts of beef or fish, and a higher energy value than soybeans, maize, beef, fish, lentils, or other beans. According to a 2004 United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) report, caterpillars of many species are rich in potassium, calcium, magnesium, zinc, and iron, as well as B-vitamins. In some African regions, children fight malnutrition by eating flour made out of dried caterpillars. Pregnant and nursing women as well as anemic people also eat caterpillar species high in protein, calcium, and iron. "
http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/ZooGoer/2005/4/edibleinsects.cfm




I actually like eating scorpions. You can even taste differences between the different types of em.

[O.S.O.K.]

Unless you're a big fan of Typhoid Fever, Dysentery, and E Coli, I'd dispose of feces in something like a septic tank and learn the maintenance of that tank. Personally, I'd rather control all the variables I possibly can rather than create another set that can go tragically wrong.

As someone who's had dysentery, I can honestly tell you that it is not fun.

Oh, I don't plan on utilizing human feces. I was just saying that because I happen to know that the Chinese raise crawfish in sewage and they dine on human feces. Its why I won't buy Chicom crawfish. Also, you can purchase human feces based compost - I was just to the garden supply place yesterday - I opted for the horse manure based product :)

[Lysander]

Oh, I don't plan on utilizing human feces. I was just saying that because I happen to know that the Chinese raise crawfish in sewage and they dine on human feces. Its why I won't buy Chicom crawfish. Also, you can purchase human feces based compost - I was just to the garden supply place yesterday - I opted for the horse manure based product :)


Glad I'm allergic to crawfish, lobsters, and crabs. :-)

Never understood why people liked to eat overgrown cockroaches anyway.

[El Laton Caliente]

Fresh water prawns will grow faster, supply more meat by weight and I think they taste better: http://www.freshwaterprawn.org/prawn_shrimp_info/prawn_shrimp_info.html

http://www.tradenote.net/images/users/000/307/439/products_images/317808.jpg

[O.S.O.K.]

If it comes to it, I'll probably just stick with chickens and rabbits. Maybe a few milk goats.

And looking at my building in the back, the backside would be perfect for a shed addition - greenhouse. I'd just get the treated lumber and frame it out, making the top a large "lid" that I could tilt up to open or let down to close...

[old Grump]

So what, one crawfish boil a year? :lool:

Or could you raise enough for two? :)depending on type and size you need 1 to 2 cubic feet of water fer crayfish, less in a tank. some Wisconsin farmers have sold off their dairy herds and converted their barns to raising fish and crayfish. Takes 6 months to mature and a lot of fish food. In a pond they can feed themselves off of alga and insects but then you are down to one crop a year. You would need 8 or 9 300 to 700 gallon stock tanks and a way to maintain their temperature and start a new batch of brine shrimp every month in a different tank for a steady supply of shrimp or crayfish. Chlorine is a big no and water quality and PH needs to be checked constantly, basically a full time job.

If you can raise them in a pond the labor is less but harvesting is more difficult and you get less product. You also would need to run a net over your pond or you will be feeding a million happy birds. Couple of good size Redbones or Walkers patrolling the area around your property would be a good idea too or the raccoons will put you on their best friends list. If you can't eat them all or sell them they make great turkey and chicken feed.

[O.S.O.K.]

Like I said - chickens, rabbits and goats - and maybe crickets for the chickens.

[btcave]

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11500227&search=rice&Mo=5&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=rice&Ntt=rice&No=3&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/Product/472396.jpg

[HDR]

If it comes to it, I'll probably just stick with chickens and rabbits. Maybe a few milk goats.

If it begins; it will come to it.

[HDR]

Glad I'm allergic to crawfish, lobsters, and crabs. :-)

Never understood why people liked to eat overgrown cockroaches anyway.

Because we aren't allergic and they taste good? ;)

We used to do a lot of camping at the beach eating what we caught; life was good.

[O.S.O.K.]

Oh man, as long as you have plenty of beer and ice - that's the life. :bouncing-boobies:

[old Grump]

Oh man, as long as you have plenty of beer and ice - that's the life. :bouncing-boobies:If we are down to survival situation ice will be a rare and valued commodity and you will have to learn to make your own beer then drink it warm. In the mean time get ready to eat fish you never would have considered table fare before like Carp and Red Horse or grass hoppers and ants. It would be a tragedy but on the other hand without huge truck farms dumping millions of gallons of pest9icide and herbicides in the waters maybe nature will give us back our amphibians. I miss my frogs, MMMMMM I really miss my frogs or their legs at least. Straight out of the crick into the frying pan, dipped in flour and fried in the bacon grease you had left over from breakfast. It was good being a country boy.

[O.S.O.K.]

I'm going to be a solar/wind and propane powered dynamo! I'll have ice :D

Now, the beer, hmmm maybe make it wine. I can do wine easier than beer I think.... have to research the beer.

Bum bum bum bup, bum bum bum bup... do da do, do da do, do da do, do dah. Mission beer.

[HDR]

Oh man, as long as you have plenty of beer and ice - that's the life. :bouncing-boobies:

With 5 weeks of vacation, a camper on family property, and a Welcraft Nova it was the life. ;)

Fish, crabs, clams etc were easy; it would sound as if surviving would be easy survival except for potable water.

The only drawback was at the peak times for fishing there were too many drunks on the water. :D