Weight lifters and military weight lifters inside please

[F-16 CHIEF]

About 6 months ago, I decided to radically change my workout and eating habits. Actually, I decided to just start working out. :)

So, I started eating lean, dumped the garbage, and started P90X. It did miracles for me. The last 3 months or so, I've really been lifting hard.

My question is on supplements. I've read a ton of reviews and all that, but I'd like to know what things you guys have tried and what works for you. Right now, I'm on NO-Xplode and cellmass. Besides whey protein, but I don't count that as a sup.

One specific question is for the creatine users. What works for you?

Military guys. Do you have a list of what we should stay away from? I'm 17 years in and not going to ruin my career by screwing up and taking the wrong supp.

My goals are like most. Lean mass, but nothing crazy.

So, any ideas and suggestions are welcome. I'd especially like to hear from military guys who use different sups for mass. Thanks!

For anyone needing to change thier life, start with P90x. The results for me have been shocking. I can't believe what I look like in just 6 months. Not being vain, just happy with the results. If a 34 year old dude can do it, anyone can.

[ubersoldate]

Cant help with the question, but I gotta say, that p90x is a life changer isnt it?
I dropped 50lbs, and feel awesome!

[Helen Keller]

Supplements.

IMHO. IF it comes out of a jar/container and isnt a standard vitamin , shitcan it.

Yes I know you want / need more protein so Spend your money on tuna/fish and chocolate milk.




I'm going to be getting back into it once some things here are wrapped up . The only thing I take is Vitamin A , D and Zinc . I drink chocolate milk and only eat what I cook . Only other intake is water, still need a few beers to cool my brain though.


As for the wrong Supplement IE: the stuff that will show up as a methamphetamine or steroid on a urine it was very few and most had to be taken in combination.

[F-16 CHIEF]

Cant help with the question, but I gotta say, that p90x is a life changer isnt it?
I dropped 50lbs, and feel awesome!

Absolutely. For me, my weight was right, but I had no muscle tone at all. Period. But, that's all changed now. I never dreamed that I could see abs and have defined triceps, but things change when you eat right and work hard.

Helen Keller, I completely get what you're saying. The thing is, creatine is alredy in your body. Just like testosterone and other things. I'm really working hard and just upping my protein, but creatine has been proven to be effective and safe.

[gpwasr10]

I'm 6'2" 235 lbs and a little under 15% bodyfat. I have been lifting weights for years.

My maxes are:
Bench: 340 (250 for sets of 8)
Squat: 550 (315 for sets of 10) *no belt*
Deadlift: 450 (315 for sets of 10) *no belt*no straps*

What you use depends greatly on what your goals are, for the most part mine are lean growth/strength.

I would dump the Muscle Tech Products, they are a lot of money for what you are getting. Dump the Cell-Mass and go with Syntha-6 (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/synth.html) (another BSN Product) for a meal replacement/pre-bedtime shake OR I like ON's Gold Standard Whey (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/whey.html) for your post work out needs. I really like Twin Labs "Amino Fuel" (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tl/aminoliq.html) for an easy to digest "right now protein"as well.

I will say though that I would only use a meal replacement if I was having trouble getting my protein needs met from traditional lean sources (i.e. Chicken/Pork/ Lean Beef). However a good lean whey, like ON's Gold Standard, is key to your recovery success.

I like NO-Explode for a pre-work out drink/motivator, so you're good there. If you wanna try something different, but just as good... if not just a tiny little bit better, try Jack3d (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/usp/jacked.html). But NO-Explode does work better for some people. Either work for me, but I think Jack3d tastes better.

As for creatine... well... I am a "non-responder" and I honestly don't buy it's effects in general. I think you are better of with spending your money on good proteins (i.e. Whey and solid blends Syntha-6 and BCAA's). If you must try Creatine, don't go with an expensive creatine like "Cell-Tech", instead opt for a good pure Micronized creatine (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ast/microcreatine.html) and mix it with orange juice. You do need sugar (as I understand it) for optimum delivery... but most creatine products (I'm looking at you Cell-Tech) have upwards of 75 Grams per serving. That much sugar WILL make you fat.

Now, Vitamins... you are WAY MORE ACTIVE and probably possessing a lot more in the way of lean mass then a "normal dude", so I always stress a good multi-vitamin.. and not a normal one... like Centrum. Those are for much less active people that are not in a constant anabolic state. I like Optimen Nutrition's Optimen (http://search3.bodybuilding.com/product/index?q=Optimen&output=xml_no_dtd&client=wwwbodybuilding&proxystylesheet=wwwbodybuilding&getfields=description&filter=0&site=store) or GNC's Megamen. I also take an additional Vitamin D, E. I will note that these vitamins are touted to increase your natural creatine production, not sure if it is true, or if it is enough to really count though.

Remember, you DO NOT BUILD MUSCLE in the gym, you tear it down. It is rebuilt at home when you are resting, and this assumes you have enough nutritional reserves for your body to "overbuild" the muscle. You are at your most catabolic (your body not growing) AFTER you leave the gym, so to stop the process and push your body back into an Anabolic (Growth) state, you are best to consume a fast meal heavy in protein right after your work out. Whey is one of the fastest acting of the cheap proteins (a high biological value), so that is why it is the most popular.

For my supps I go to one source as you can see. http://www.bodybuilding.com/
They have INSANELY FAST SHIPPING, and fantastic service... plus the best prices in the game. Also there is a community of people there who rate the products, so it is pretty easy to see some results. Also they do a great job putting the Nutritional info up there.

If you use these common sense supps, you wont need to sweat getting in trouble at your job with the USAF ;-) and (If you do your part BUSTING YOUR ASS in the gym)... they work.

Good luck!

[mriddick]

I can ask my son what he's doing, I know he just reached benching 315 lbs, he's in Afghanistan right now and was asked to run his units PE. I know he does supplements although I'm not sure what he's using.

[Dafapa]

I haven't really worked out in years (stuff fell by the way side in grad school). Here's what I used to use:

Creatine, whey powder, L-glutamine powder, and sometimes a multivitamin.

I've done a bit of looking around, and what I've found generally indicates creatine is about the only supplement that is conclusively backed up by real studies. I think most of the other supplements are probably hype.

One thing I caught onto is that there are fast and slow absorption proteins. Standard whey protein is a great source of protein, and its fast absorbing. Supposedly good for post work out meals. Supposedly throwing in some slower absorbing protein sources provides you with a more constant supply of protein. Last work out rotation I had started trying casin protein powder for a slow absorption protein.

Supposedly L-glutamin is an amino acid that you need lots of to build muscle, but I've started shying away from products that I can't find reliable sources backing them as actually useful.

I believe earlier on I tried some type of "nitrogen booster". I haven't found anything indicating they really do anything. Supposedly they allow more blood flow to the muscles resulting in a better "pump" and because of the added blood flow more muscle growth I guess. It does seem to "pump" you up more when you lift, but I never found satisfactory evidence of any real benefit to muscle development.

If/when I start back up (hopefully this spring) I plan to use the following:

Whey powder, casin powder, creatine, and possibly a multivitamin.

I've never used one of those workout hyper things to get you all juiced up for a workout. I got the impression they were basically just junk laden with caffeine.

[F-16 CHIEF]

Thanks everyone.

GP, I'm going to re-read your post in the morning when I have more time. I do agree that NO-Xplode does provide a better "pump" as they say. I look like a monster when I'm done lifting.

The only issue I have with taking in the reccomended 0.8 grams of protein per body weight is I simply can't eat that much. I do a protein shake of ON 100% Whey in the morning when I first wake up. Post work out and before bed. I wish I could eat that much chicken/pork/beef, but I can't!

Thanks again everyone.

[gpwasr10]

It's actually easier then you think... one can of tuna/Chicken is almost 50 Grams all by itself. A couple chicken breasts, some eggs and ham with breakfast, some meat and veggies for dinner plus your protien shake is probably close to 40-50 all by its onesies. I try and get closer to 1-1.5 grams per day...

I highly recommend Arnold Schwarzenegger Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding for it's nutritional info, body type info, muscle building info and excersize tips.

[mriddick]

Are you trying to get in shape or body building?
I sent my son a copy of your post and this is what he wrote back...

as for the post i have a weird range of stuff i take like pre-workout stuff: Jack3d(high focus), Nano Vaper(pump),and White flood(super high pump and focus) all which i take at different parts of a deployment. then after workouts its Iso-pure(low carb), syntha-6 (heavy carb), and Halo (repair) along with fish oil an multi. vitamin. Plus my workouts are Heavy 2xweeks, High Reps 2xweeks, then back to Heavy to redo it for next 4months makes time fly by. then the last 2months is cross-fit and high cardo to get those good cuts. Everything i labeled can be bought at GNC so i dont take anything thats written in Russian/ Chinese hahahaha. P90X is good but cross-fit has given me the strength to keep going plus i love flipping 500lb. tire, swinging 50lb. hammers and also get me to get cycle off all my supplements but that's me. i stay away from NO-Xplode cause gave me the shits all the time. Stay the hell away from Muscle Warfare products like Napalm! Did research and found that it makes you bi-polar and extremely depressed which both arent good in a deployed location. good luck on the deployment maybe see you in the gym over here

[skorpion]

This is mostly just a personal opinion based on scientific research (of others), but I believe most of the supplements out there are just attempts at taking advantage of folks. It doesn't matter if a product claims to provide a million grams of whatever: The cells in the body will only take in what they need during the metabolic process. In other words, those who take the $100 supplements every day are literally pissing their money away unless they are dedicating their schedules to doing nothing but working-out, like professional body builders. The best way to gain nutrients is through proper food intake.

Why Food is Better Than Supplements
http://www.livestrong.com/article/354775-why-food-is-better-than-supplements/

"Commericially Marketed Supplements for Bodybuilding Athletes"
Adis Online Sports Medicine. February 1993 - Volume 15 - Issue 2.
http://adisonline.com/sportsmedicine/Abstract/1993/15020/Commercially_Marketed_Supplements_for_Bodybuilding .3.aspx


We conducted a survey of 624 commercially available supplements targeted towards bodybuilding athletes. Over 800 performance claims were made for these supplements. Supplements include amino acids, boron, carnitine, choline, chromium, dibencozide, ferulic acid, gamma oryzanol, medium chain triglycerides, weight gain powders, Smilax compounds and yohimbine.

Many performance claims advertised were not supported by published research studies. In some instances, we found no research to validate the claims; in other cases, research findings were extrapolated to inappropriate applications. For example, biological functions of some nonessential compounds were interpreted as performance claims for the supplements. Claims for others were based on their ability to enhance hormonal release or activity.

We suggest that more research be conducted on this group of athletes and their nutritional needs. Furthermore, the effectiveness and safety of supplements merit further investigation.

"Protein Supplement Users Among High School Athletes Have Misconceptions About Effectiveness." Duellman, Margaret; Lukaszuk, Judi; Prawitz, Aimee; Brandenburg, Jason
Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research:
July 2008 - Volume 22 - Issue 4 - pp 1124-1129
doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e31817394b9
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2008/07000/Protein_Supplement_Users_Among_High_School.14.aspx


Duellman, MC, Lukaszuk, JM, Prawitz, AD, and Brandenburg, JP. Protein supplement users among high school athletes have misconceptions about effectiveness. J Strength Cond Res 22: 1124-1129, 2008-Protein supplements commonly are ingested by athletes to improve strength, agility, and speed. While athletes require a higher amount of protein (g·kg-1 body weight) than nonathletes do to support protein synthesis, they do not necessarily need to consume protein from supplemental sources. To date, no studies have shown an advantage of ingesting protein supplements over natural, protein-containing foods; therefore, dietary sources of protein may be just as effective as protein supplemental sources in the regulation of muscle protein synthesis. Misconceptions regarding protein supplement effectiveness may originate from athletes' nutrition information sources. A survey questionnaire queried high school football players about sources of information and measured protein supplement misconceptions by using scores on a Protein Supplement Misconceptions Index. Sixty-one high school football players participated in the study; 39 were protein supplementers, and 22 were non-protein supplementers. There was a significant difference between index scores of protein supplementers and non-protein supplementers (t = -3.4, p = 0.001), indicating that protein supplementers had a greater level of misconceptions than non-protein supplementers did. Bonferroni post hoc procedures used with individual index items revealed that protein supplementers were more likely than non-protein supplementers to agree that athletes should take protein supplements (p = 0.001) and needed them to gain as much muscle as possible (p = 0.001). Greater misconceptions for protein supplementers may have resulted from the sources chosen for information and advice. Since coaches, parents, and friends were the primary sources of advice about protein supplements for protein supplementers, it would be valuable to provide nutrition education to these groups concurrently with educating young athletes to dispel ongoing misconceptions regarding the need for and effectiveness of protein supplements.

[O.S.O.K.]

That's it, I'm ordering the P90X kit. I need to lose 40 pounds for sure. I did a project making a cargo/security box for my wrangler a month ago which involved getting on my knees and contorting them some in the install... damned if I didn't aggrevate the bursas in them and on comes the bursitis and have been paying for it since - just getting the right knee back to normal now after twice-daily walks and nightly ibuprophen doses.

But the root is my weight pushing down... and until I get that gone, this will be an issue.

Amazon right?

[skorpion]

Thanks everyone.

GP, I'm going to re-read your post in the morning when I have more time. I do agree that NO-Xplode does provide a better "pump" as they say. I look like a monster when I'm done lifting.

The only issue I have with taking in the reccomended 0.8 grams of protein per body weight is I simply can't eat that much. I do a protein shake of ON 100% Whey in the morning when I first wake up. Post work out and before bed. I wish I could eat that much chicken/pork/beef, but I can't!

Thanks again everyone.
Don't forget that milk/dairy, beans, and nuts are also good sources of natural protein.

[Helen Keller]

I'm going to just start PT'ing myself into the ground a few times a week + lifting. live in BFE so I can walk/run all day without seeing another soul.


Last summer I could manhandle shit that weighed 400-600 pounds. Now I get winded moving furniture.

It dont take much to get back into the game, just gotta stay positive.







I tried the ON WHEY last year for a few weeks, by week 6 After I took it about 30 minutes later I would become so short fused I quit it.

[O.S.O.K.]

Wait till you reach 50 (I'm there in May...) - it's real fun. It takes more effort/dedication to acheive the same results - not to mention pain progressively as you age.

There's an old guy (probably in his 80's) that's been running around town since I've been here - he would run with his shirt off and carring a stick - he's skinny but man is it gross :lool: - last few times that I've seen him he's been walking fast instead of running. Weird guy but you have to hand it to him for his tenacity and dedication.

I just ordered the standard P90 workout kit. I want to start basic - it's going to take some time to work up to this and I also do not want to injure myself going too fast.

[coppertales]

I still try to compete every year but naggy injuries have prevented that. It is hell getting old. I have tried supplements in the past but I did not see any improvements over a well rounded diet with increases in protein, such as tuna, chicken, milk. The biggest problem I faced over the years is over training. You have to let your body recover. Young guys starting out always over train and spend alot of money on supplements. The only supplement to my diet is Ensure Plus. I am currently training for a meet in August, and maybe November. My totals right now are around 850 lbs and I hope to do 1100 lbs in the meets. I did not start competing until I was 48 years old. Remember, train smart and LISTEN to your body.....chris3

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes, thank you - you are in inspiration along with the others here who have a fitness regimin going.

I spent 10 years of my life training constantly as a competitive swimmer. What I'd really like is an endless pool so I could swim daily. That is the very best excersize available IMHO and doesn't pound the joints - the elbows a bit but not bad. And you cover almost all of your muscle groups. Even being out of trim, I am an excellent swimmer and can sustain a long workout.

They cost about $10K though and I have other more important things to do with that money right now...

So, P90 will have to do in the mean time.

[ubersoldate]

Wait till you reach 50 (I'm there in May...) - it's real fun. It takes more effort/dedication to acheive the same results - not to mention pain progressively as you age.

There's an old guy (probably in his 80's) that's been running around town since I've been here - he would run with his shirt off and carring a stick - he's skinny but man is it gross :lool: - last few times that I've seen him he's been walking fast instead of running. Weird guy but you have to hand it to him for his tenacity and dedication.

I just ordered the standard P90 workout kit. I want to start basic - it's going to take some time to work up to this and I also do not want to injure myself going too fast.

Haha, I sent you a message before I read this post. Smart move man.
I started with the power90, then went to 90x. the 90x will kick your butt if your out of shape, and I know alot of people who went directly to the injured list diving into the X...
THe 90 works great as a weight loss, and start for getting in REAL good shape..

I took some time off this week, but as Ive been telling people, In the Sierra mountains, we dont have p90x, we have P-snowshovel-X.
Nothing like spending 4 hours a day, shoveling out waist deep snow so you can drive your car!

[O.S.O.K.]

Oh, I've been there and done that. It will kick your butt.

And I recalled your advice from previous conversations about this when I was looking at the list of products at amazon... thanks again!

[Partisan1983]

Be careful with all that protein/createin crap....every guy that I know that toyed with that shit in High School...they all have digestive problems now.... and they are in there fuckin 20's and there is no cure.

In fact it's keeping one out of the military right now. He's been trying to join for awhile now......

[Cypher]

IMO your best bet is a good multi, a good Omega 3 unless you eat a lot of fish and a simple whey protein mix along with a healthy diet and plenty of veggies, beans and lean meats. I'm not a power lifter but have lifted weights for a long time with breaks in between. I build muscle pretty fast so it may depend on how well you do with weight lifting.

I like the protein mix because it is a good amount of protein for the calories, easy to prepare (I don't have to cook anything) I only take it right after lifting weights assuming I get a good amount of protein on non lifting days and never take the protein as a meal, even if I just eat a bowl of veggies.


Haha, I sent you a message before I read this post. Smart move man.
I started with the power90, then went to 90x. the 90x will kick your butt if your out of shape, and I know alot of people who went directly to the injured list diving into the X...
THe 90 works great as a weight loss, and start for getting in REAL good shape..

I took some time off this week, but as Ive been telling people, In the Sierra mountains, we dont have p90x, we have P-snowshovel-X.
Nothing like spending 4 hours a day, shoveling out waist deep snow so you can drive your car!

I agree the Power90 system is great and is great to get you ready for something like the P90X.

[F-16 CHIEF]

That's it, I'm ordering the P90X kit. I need to lose 40 pounds for sure. I did a project making a cargo/security box for my wrangler a month ago which involved getting on my knees and contorting them some in the install... damned if I didn't aggrevate the bursas in them and on comes the bursitis and have been paying for it since - just getting the right knee back to normal now after twice-daily walks and nightly ibuprophen doses.

But the root is my weight pushing down... and until I get that gone, this will be an issue.

Amazon right?

It will be the best thing you ever do for your body. Check craigslist first. Tons of people quit or never start and it can be had cheap.

I'll tell you that I feel better right now than I've ever felt in my life. I'm 34 and I have more energy than I know what to do with. I workout 6 days a week and the garbage food is gone. My stomach feels better without that grease in it. I can run miles now without breathing hard. It's a stinking miracle.

IM me if you need anything or have questions.

As for my protein. I can't eat Tuna. I'm semi-allergic to fish and all the way allergic to shell fish. I do eat some salted nuts everyday for protein and some fat. From everything I've ever read whey protein is not harmful at all. But, given the oppurtunity, I would rather eat it. I'd be happy not to take any supplements. I might be expecting too much too quick.

Skorp and GP, what's your thoughts on pork? I've been trying to avoid fat like that as much as possible. I know that getting rid of all fat is bad. I'm just trying to get my body fat % down, so I'm going as lean as possible.

Also, I do my shakes with milk to get my dairy.

I'm not trying to go crazy, but I'm trying to build a fortress with protein and hard work.

[gpwasr10]

It will be the best thing you ever do for your body. Check craigslist first. Tons of people quit or never start and it can be had cheap.

I'll tell you that I feel better right now than I've ever felt in my life. I'm 34 and I have more energy than I know what to do with. I workout 6 days a week and the garbage food is gone. My stomach feels better without that grease in it. I can run miles now without breathing hard. It's a stinking miracle.

IM me if you need anything or have questions.

As for my protein. I can't eat Tuna. I'm semi-allergic to fish and all the way allergic to shell fish. I do eat some salted nuts everyday for protein and some fat. From everything I've ever read whey protein is not harmful at all. But, given the oppurtunity, I would rather eat it. I'd be happy not to take any supplements. I might be expecting too much too quick.

Skorp and GP, what's your thoughts on pork? I've been trying to avoid fat like that as much as possible. I know that getting rid of all fat is bad. I'm just trying to get my body fat % down, so I'm going as lean as possible.

Also, I do my shakes with milk to get my dairy.

I'm not trying to go crazy, but I'm trying to build a fortress with protein and hard work.

Eating fat in your meats is not going to make you fat, I might cut pork IF I was trying to get ripped, but Pork can be apart of your Protien regimin with little problems. Go for it. I also like Canned Chicken alot, it is quick and easy to make chicken sandwiches with it.

[Cypher]

To cut body fat the main thing is watching the calorie intake. One of the problems with junk food is they are packed full of calories so you eat less food for the same calories. Imagine eating a huge bowl of your favorite veggie and a few ounces of lean chicken compared to Twinkies, same calories but one is a lot healthier and fills you up more and makes it easier to lose weight because you are fuller and feel healthier. Technically you can lose weigh eating nothing but donuts if you watch the calories but you will feel like death and die from malnutrition eventually.

Your base metabolic rate is how many calories you burn a day, plus exercise, needs to be higher than how many calories you eat so there is a deficit of calories. a 500 calorie deficit a day equals one pound a week. It's important to make sure you get the correct amount of calories compared to how many you burn.

I don't think the BMR calculators are 100% accurate, personally I burn about 20% less naturally compared to what my BMR calculates to, which makes it more difficult.

[coppertales]

if you don't put it across your lips, it won't end up on your belly, or where ever. Get off the couch and at least walk around the block a few times every day. I see it all the time, guys throw money at supplement programs and all they have to do is cut down how much you eat, watch what you eat, and be more active.....chris3

[Ronwicp]

If you fly you probably cant take any of that stuff without seeing the flight doc for approval.

[F-16 CHIEF]

if you don't put it across your lips, it won't end up on your belly, or where ever. Get off the couch and at least walk around the block a few times every day. I see it all the time, guys throw money at supplement programs and all they have to do is cut down how much you eat, watch what you eat, and be more active.....chris3

I promise, that isn't the case with me. I'm doing cardio 3 times a week and lifting 3 days a week. Sometimes 4. I just want more. I love the results and I want to get some lean size. I have fairly small shoulders and I'd like them to fill out a little bit.