How much land?

[Charliebravo]

I'm looking into buying some good East Texas land here in the next few years. I'm eventually going to build our retirement home on it, but, for now, it'll just be land. Question is, if SHTF, how much land would I need to grow enough food and raise enough livestock to keep 5 people fed? It's going to have a body of water on it, so catfish will be one protein source, but what about growing everything else? How many acres would I need? 10? 20? 50?

[old Grump]

5 acres per person is a good rule of thumb but it depends on the land and what you intend to grow. Livestock takes more land, if you utilize farmers markets or co-ops you don't need as much land under cultivation. If you go heavy on gardening and maybe poultry you can go less land and buy your beef and pork by the quarter or carcass, again a local co-op is a good thing to hook up with.

If you are thinking of raising a beef cow on your own you are going to need a minimum of 4 or 5 acres if you have decent pasture but that is a minimum. Go goats and you can throw 10 of them in an acre or 5 sheep per acre but again that depends on the quality of the land and the type of forage you grow.

Rules in Wisconsin are a bit different with our climate differences because we need to grow feed for the winter in addition to pasture land. Right now your best friend will be the local agriculture agent or county extension agent whatever you call him down there. His numbers may be more generous or less than mine but like I said I'm not down in Texas. Good Luck.

[HDR]

Although the answer depends on where you live.

"People worldwide eat not only agricultural products, but a varying amount of livestock that eats agricultural product, so a direct conversion of calories per acre of corn, for example, will give a severe underestimate of the acreage required.
For a quick approximation of an upper limit, the U.S. uses 18% of its 9.2 million km2 of land as arable (crop) land. That's 17 million km2, which supports 300 million people ignoring import/export. A km2 is 247 acres so it's about 20 acres per person as currently used.
If you do the same calculation for India, you get about 2.4 acres.
Source(s):
CIA World Factbook, odci.gov
google for area conversion factor"

[O.S.O.K.]

I would suggest getting some property that snuggs up next to a national forest and is near a larger lake (resivoir in TX). This multiplies your available free-range proteins.

This is what I'd like to do myself.

There are several areas that you can do this in east TX.

[American Rage]

It depends on where you live.

In Oklahoma, I've been told that you need 1 acre of pasture for every cow. Note, this is just to graze on during the spring, summer and fall. For the winter, you'll need to buy hay.

In Colorado, I've been told that you need at least 10 acres per cow, due to the rocky soil.

Further out West, I've been told you need 100 acres per cow due to the extreme dryness.

As for people? Well, I was told that in Oklahoma one needed around 20 acres for a family to be self sufficient. What they didn't say was what was self sufficiency and what was the average family size? In other words, that 20 acres might have been based on a family of four living in a 300 sq. ft. cabin on the great plains in 1900? I have no clue today.

I do know some people that garden. Their's is a large garden of 50 ft. X 100 ft. They tell me that their garden not only feeds them, but the families of their 4 children, and quite a few friends and neighbors to boot.

Personally, I'd go for all the land I could afford. But truthfully, you could set up a large garden and a chicken coop on an acre and be fine, so long as you had electricity and gas. Without electricity and gas, you'd need extra land (5-20 acres in my mind) for wood to burn to cook and stay warm with. Remember, there is other types of meat besides beef. Goats, sheep, and pigs all take up less room than a cow, and they need less food too.

So, I think I'd go small, especially in the countryside. I think I'd try for 10 acres. 1 acre for home, shop, and garden. Two acres for pasture and 2 acres for hay. The next 5 acres should be wooded. I'd try to live off the fallen limbs and branches. And if I had to cut a tree down, I'd make sure to replant another. The woods themselves will attract game.

Finally, on that acre where the house and garden sits, you'd still have enough room to install wind and solar power for your home. And there you have it: food, water, power. What more do you need?

I think the above would probably suit your needs.

But that's just me.


Rage

[smittylite]

1 acre garden will keep a family of 4 stocked with veggies for the year.

[Charliebravo]

I was leaning towards 10-20 anyway. I think I'll shoot for the upper end.

[swampdragon]

I've got 30 acres.
But that was really for some longer range target shooting.

[Charliebravo]

I've got 30 acres.
But that was really for some longer range target shooting.That was my thinking too, although 300 yards is really plenty for me. I also want a place that my kids can build on later if they want. Keep the whole clan close to me with our own little compound.

[HDR]

I would suggest getting some property that snuggs up next to a national forest and is near a larger lake (resivoir in TX). This multiplies your available free-range proteins.

No lake but a few thousand acres of park & gamelands; plus owned but no dwellings there land. There is also a couple of what NC calls rivers; but more creek size where I am from.
Deer, bear, etc; even feral cats for protein. lol You carry because the blackberries didn't do well so the bears are hungry and you own a dog. LOL

On the flip side a dirt road which because it is steep in spots usually washes out etc. lol

I don't live here because of some huge catastrophic event; I live here because I prefer the solitude and beauty.



This is what I'd like to do myself.

Make sure it is what you want and go for it.

Some folks moved in because of the beauty and the view. Her car won't make it in if it snows, ice or etc and his truck struggles. From where the road washes out it is about 1/2 mile. As far as the view, the bugs keep them in at night and did I mention snakes? I can continue but the short form is they want out.. LOL

[Prometheus168]

Where is East Texas... I live in EAST central Texas and there is some DAMN good land around here for good prices

Rusty

[swampdragon]

That was my thinking too, although 300 yards is really plenty for me. I also want a place that my kids can build on later if they want. Keep the whole clan close to me with our own little compound.

Plenty of room to build your compound, go shooting, have a pond, a garden, and graze some animals, etc.

[Charliebravo]

Where is East Texas... I live in EAST central Texas and there is some DAMN good land around here for good prices

RustyI'm looking in an arc that stretches from Gilmer to Diana to Hallsville. Basically, I want the town (Longview) close enough that it's there if I need it, but I don't have to put up with it if I don't want to.

[Prometheus168]

Ok.. that is "real" east Texas... about 2 hrs NE of me...

Rusty

[O.S.O.K.]

I was thinking more central to south east Texas myself. That's where the NF land and many of the lakes are.

I had 20 acres east of the town I now live in. After losing my job four years ago, my wife and I decided to sell the place and rent something in town. We sold at a good time and made enough on the deal to erase a good portion of our debt. We couldn't find a decent place to rent so we bought a fixer-upper and lived there for two years. I got my present job after about a year. Then, we fixed er up. :)

Its a 1/2 acre lot and has a nice big metal building in the back that has a two car garage, my shop and large covered patio.

Its very nice and comfortable but its not 20 acres....

We could sell the place pretty easily as it is very nice now after we refurbed the house.

We just bought a smaller 3 bedroom in College station (actually, having it built) - taking advantage of the very good program monies and ultra low interest rates now available. This is for our son to rent from us (along with two house mates) while at college. In a couple years, we are considering selling our current home, moving in to the college station home and then purchasing some land near College station... and then building a new home on this land.

I'm actually considering using a compressed brick construction and doing the bulk of the construction myself. This is essentially free material - you use onsite soil and a hydrolic brick maker - the bricks are solid, dense and excellent to build with. You basically use them with mortar like normal bricks but in the old fashioned way, they are structural.

The end product is essentially a "super adoble" type construction which is very energy effecient. Adobe structures when properly constructed will actually maintain an 80 degree temp inside even when its 100 degrees out. Very little AC is needed to take it down to 75, but really its easy to get aclimated to 80 degrees...

I'd set the thing up like a small fort - the well head would fall inside of the structure in a "utility" room. Because I would be doing the construction myself with basically free material, I could afford to make the house a bit larger - a spread-out ranch style.

I would install solar cells on the roof and one or two wind generators that would reach up over the treeline (TX trees are pretty short really) and have an LP tank and LP driven generator for backup power. If we could find property with a year-round stream flowing, then I'd tap into that for hyrdro power generation instead of the wind generators. We'd have an anarobic septic system of course...

No electric going in, no water going in, no comms going in - would use satelight services for all - phone, internet, tv. Or maybe just internet - I'm finding out that with the right equipment, you can tap into the various on-line media and watch movies and such. And we would just get our news from the news sites... regardless, lots of options.

I'd have wireless uv cameras set up around the perimeter of the property and have a security room set up to allow monitoring.

After this is all done, I'd construct a "guest house" that could serve that purpose or be there should the kids or my folks need to move in...

And of course, I'd make a shooting range again - I'd like to have at least 300 meters...

I'm just hoping that things hold together long enough for me to accomplish this.

[chiak47]

I'm just hoping that things hold together long enough for me to accomplish this.

Your plan sounds solid...
I like you have a few projects on the burner and I too hope "things" hold out long enough to accomplish them.
One of my plans is to build an old time wind pump for a well thats out by my barn. I also have plans for a rain collector and irrigation system for a 1/3rd acre garden. But first is to clear land for my cow yard.

[HDR]

Sounds like a good plan; very thorough and well thought out.