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View Full Version : Water Wheels to Generate Electricity - residential applications?



Mark Ducati
03-16-2011, 07:28 AM
Solar panels, generators, and wind turbines have been discussed here before... but I don't ever recall seeing any "water wheel" generators in past.

My father-in-law is looking to buy property that has a pretty good river running through it... it even has a waterfall on the property, so water's running pretty fast.

I was thinking for electricity (there is no city power lines run out this far as the property is adjacent to a National Forest) that he could install a "water wheel"....

Surely there'd be a residential application out there... yes, google is my friend and I've seen a couple.

But curious if any of you have had any experience with them as to how much power they can generate... can you get enough electricity to power a normal sized house/cabin?

00RedZX-6R
03-16-2011, 07:53 AM
I don't see why it wouldn't work. Just need to get the speed right. Really no different than a windmill. You are just relying on water speed instead of windspeed.

Probably alot of considerations to consider that I am not. Erosion, depth, ect.

Somehow have to keep the voltage constant with different wheel speeds. That can probaly be taken care of easilly with some sort of voltage regulator.

Mark Ducati
03-16-2011, 04:51 PM
Hooking up an alternator to a water wheel is a great idea as a temporary type thing for electricity for the camp site.... 12V electric only though.

But to run a cabin, we're going to need something more permanent.

Here's the land my FIL is looking to buy... we're going to go look at the property this weekend:

9.1 Acres of private land surrounded by and adjacent to USNF Land, with a good bit of river frontage, including water falls.... $145K is a steal (at least I think so, and the price is negotiable), I'd have thought this kind of land to be $50-70K an acre, not $16K!


http://www.visualtour.com/show.asp?T=2409198

http://11161.mydx.showcasere.com/webapp/www/mls-picture-cache/6/208/208405/55505217_80x80.jpghttp://11161.mydx.showcasere.com/webapp/www/mls-picture-cache/6/208/208405/55505206_80x80.jpghttp://11161.mydx.showcasere.com/webapp/www/mls-picture-cache/6/208/208405/55505234_80x80.jpghttp://11161.mydx.showcasere.com/webapp/www/mls-picture-cache/6/208/208405/55505218_80x80.jpghttp://11161.mydx.showcasere.com/webapp/www/mls-picture-cache/6/208/208405/55505221_80x80.jpg

Schuetzenman
03-16-2011, 07:32 PM
Should work provided there's enough flow to turn a large enough gen.

O.S.O.K.
03-17-2011, 02:57 PM
Oh hell yeah. Here you go: http://www.utilityfree.com/hydro/

Richard Simmons
03-17-2011, 03:08 PM
You need three things to make it work.

Generation

You got that covered with the water source just have to decide on the turbine. Big enough to provide for your electrical demand as well as what ever storage set up.

Storage

You need to store juice for the extra power needs and times when no power is generated. Since you're not looking at solar or wind you as long as your water source is constant you really shouldn't need a great deal of storage if you size the turbine properly. My guess is you would gauge your storage needs based on the minimum flow of the water source and maximum usage of the dwelling

Conversion

You'll either need to convert the power to AC or equip the home to run off DC power.

Least ways to me those seem like your three main criteria. Too bad you don't have power in the area or you could basically sell what you don't use to the power company. Not sure how that works but I've heard you can do it.

Mark Ducati
04-05-2011, 08:36 PM
Good news... my wife uncle works for the power company. We're about an 1/8th of a mile from the next house with power... to cross the National Forrest right of way to get me power, we'd have to simply bury the line.

I was under the impression that this was an absolute "no go", but he said no problem as long as you bury the line... maybe I can get the other property owners to man up and chip on the cost to bury a line now.

JTHunter
04-09-2011, 10:58 PM
Mark - One possible problem with staying "off the grid" is the reliability and downhill drop the stream would have on your property.
If you go with a waterwheel, would building a dam to give you more drop (head) be possible or would this even be allowed because of possible flooding upstream?
If this land is adjacent to Forest Service land, would they allow the dam?
Would you have enough head for direct AC power or would you have to go with banks of batteries and an inverter?

Mark Ducati
04-10-2011, 11:13 AM
Thanks for the thought JT,

The main river is perhaps a good 30-35ft across but the creek is entirely on my property and I would own both sides...

I hear you about a "dam"... this place is so remote that I don't "think" I'd have to worry about the rangers coming by and finding it or flooding upstream... maybe one of those times when its better to ask for "forgiveness" rather than for "permission"?

A couple other people in the area have tried water-wheels... and they said that once in a while with a good rain that their wheels have been washed out...

My thought was to perhaps dig out part of the river instead since its all rocks... make a deeper hole in one area, and then use stone/concrete/rock to anchor an abutment on both sides of the wheel so that hopefully it wouldn't wash away in a down pour flood type of flow...

FWIW, I'm about to get rid of the "krautmobile"... I'm going to trade the Porsche in on a 2011 Ford Raptor Super Crew.... car payment will be less, the truck would be more practical, and would be the primary vehicle for driving onto this land...

I'm still learning about "head" as it relates to water flow and generating electricity... In the long run, I do not believe a water wheel to be enough to run a 2000sq. ft. cabin.... simple 12V power to run a vacuum cleaner or microwave for a short amount of time would be fine... but I'm looking into paying to have true city power run the last 1/8th of mile to this site in future... a friend/family member that works for the electric company said that they could do it and not to worry about the USFS denying me "right of way" to run power... sure, running poles and lines its a definite "NO"... but he said they have no problem with burying lines in the ground, so that's the route we'll likely go.

I won't need power for several years, if not 20 until I retire, the sooner the better as it will be cheaper... but right now, we're just going to use the property as a family campsite.

Dafapa
04-10-2011, 05:50 PM
You can get an inverter to turn 12 VDC into 120 VAC. Even if the speed of the water wheel isn't constant you can regulate and clean up the power. You'll lose some energy in the conversion process, but its doable. The real question is how much power can your water wheel harvest?

romak10/63UF
04-10-2011, 08:06 PM
You know that had me thinking about a water wheel connected to a high output alternator above 90 amps... Wired into " series " with at least 10 to 20 car batterys by useing 2 or even 3 12v converters off a 2 or t 3 bar series you could run up to 4 or 5 or even 6 items like a refrigerator , eletric stove , TV , radio , etc....

LOL this sounds funny but i saw a thing on the " discovery channel " called SURVIVOR it was like a group of people after a natural disaster in L.A.

JTHunter
04-14-2011, 10:00 PM
Mark - three years ago, we upgraded the electical service on my house from 100 amp to 200 amp. The electrician and I then dug a trench from the house to the polebarn 80-100 feet behind the house and ran a 60 amp service to it. We used 2 copper cables in a 2" PVC pipe (to protect the cables from moisture and rocks) and these cables were as thick as my thumb. To bury that much cable 1/8th of a mile, - - -. Actually, your cables will need to be even thicker to carry the amperage unless the code there will let you use aluminum cables (like they use on the big high-tension lines).

As for "head", that is the difference in the level of the inlet of the pipe feeding the waterwheel vs. the outlet at the wheel itself. One way to provide more force for the wheel is to use a concentrator at the tip where the water jets out to hit the wheel. Imagine going from an 8" opening, dropping 30 vertical feet at a 20 degree angle, then putting all that flow and volume through a 1 or 2" opening. FIREHOSE!!