I'm shopping for a 1911, any advice?

[ready]

So, I had a Sig GSR 1911 a few years ago. It's the only 1911 I've ever owned. I sold it and I've regretted it ever since. I'm looking at buying another one but haven't decided on which one to get. I have about a $1500 budget. I was thinking Springfield TRP but I thought I'd ask you guys, first. It will be an occasional carry gun so reliablity is important.

Thanks in advance!

[hazmat]

You can go anywhere from the low end High Standard, up to Para Ordnance, Colt has some new offerings in the $800-$1000 range, Taurus makes a good little shooter for a decent price, Kimber has some good stuff out there that kind of pushes your $1500 limit as does Springfiled Armory. Dan Wesson/CZ USA also has some good stuff out there. Most of the DW stuff is made on Ed Brown parts and they've got some interesting designs. The VBOB and CBOB line are awesome, as is the Razorback.

So in order of quality, I'd rate the High Standard/Armascor Phillipine stuff lowest on the list, then Taurus & Colt, with Kimber/SA/CZ USA & Dan Wesson out the other end of the scale. I will tell you that the Dan Wesson is one of the finest 1911s I've ever owned. Of course you could always go for the Rolls Royce and get a Wilson Combat, Novak Custom, Ed Brown, Les Baer, or STI. But I think those would kind of blow your $1500 budget out the window.

[ready]

Yeah, I'd really like an Ed Brown, Nighthawk Custom or Wilson Combat but that's not in my budget. I hadn't thought of Dan Wesson, I'm gonna go check out the website.

Thanks!

[ltorlo64]

I have been very happy with my Springfield GI Issue. Granted, it was much less expensive than you are looking at, but I have been happy with that version of their 1911.

[ready]

Let me ask this. I can get a standard GI spec gun for $5-600. A TRP is around to $1350. All I really need is reliability, good sights and a mag well slightly wider than a coin slot to facilitate reloads. Do I need a $1500 gun? What's the benefit of the skeletonized hammers and triggers and all that b.s.? Can I just get a GI spec 1911, put some Novak's on it and sometype of magwell insert and have a reliable carry gun?

[swampdragon]

Let me ask this. I can get a standard GI spec gun for $5-600. A TRP is around to $1350. All I really need is reliability, good sights and a mag well slightly wider than a coin slot to facilitate reloads. Do I need a $1500 gun? What's the benefit of the skeletonized hammers and triggers and all that b.s.? Can I just get a GI spec 1911, put some Novak's on it and sometype of magwell insert and have a reliable carry gun?

I've never had a single problem with Springfields.
They are cheaper, but still solid performers.
You can add your own cool parts and pieces later on if you want.
Blow the cash you save on ammo.
.45acp isn't cheap any more.

[old Grump]

Let me ask this. I can get a standard GI spec gun for $5-600. A TRP is around to $1350. All I really need is reliability, good sights and a mag well slightly wider than a coin slot to facilitate reloads. Do I need a $1500 gun? What's the benefit of the skeletonized hammers and triggers and all that b.s.? Can I just get a GI spec 1911, put some Novak's on it and sometype of magwell insert and have a reliable carry gun?

Only thing I would add to your list of extras is a light touch on the ejection port. Not often a problem in my experience but just a little cut and what problems I had went away. When the party is on you won't notice the hammer or trigger, that's race gun stuff as far as I'm concerned, not real world use. Only other thing is the grips, that you will notice in day to day shooting. Mine are stippled on the front strap, pretty aggressive and most people don't like them but it works for me. A nice set of wrap around grips with finger grooves might make you happy. Just a thought.

[ready]

Sounds good, gentlemen. Thanks for all the advice!

[Gunreference1]

For the features you want try looking at a Springfield Loaded. It has plenty of extras, with forged frame. slide and barrel. I see these selling for around $800 + tax. Just my $0.02.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=8

Steve

[NAPOTS]

I have owned a Springfield MilSpec and still own, Kimber Eclipse II, and Wilson Combat CQB.

The wilson is without a doubt something special and worth every penny.

The springfield was cheap, it was fit cheap, finished cheap, and I didn't feel that attention was paid to any detail, it was a blaster but nothing special. For $550 you could probably do better.

The kimber was a little disappointing. For the money I expected better, plastic MSH, series 80 (not really but close enough) firing mechanism and fairly generic.Cost $1250. It shoots well but its nothing special.

The wilson is fit tight and well finished, the feel in your hand is something hard to describe. You need to shoot one. $2500, worth it, I swear.

When I bought the milspec I wanted a plane jane 1911 and didnt care about any frills. I wanted something close to what was WWII issue (The GI wasn't out yet when I bought it). I learned that it had a sloppy fit, crappy heavy trigger, the arched MSH sucked, and the GI grip safety all added up to things that have been improved upon in the last 100 years for a reason.

Wilson porn, because I can
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/handguns/cqb_full/large/02.jpg

[ready]

Is fit something I'll be able to feel at the store? Will it rattle or something?

[NAPOTS]

I'm probably over emphacising it. Its part of what I paid extra for. The wilson is hand fit and very tight and smooth. The springfield had a slight rattle to it. One thing I will say is it always went bang, I can't think of any malfunctions and I put around 3500-4000 rounds through it before I sold it. There is nothing wrong with the springfield, I wanted to move up to something better. It is "cost effective". Probably a good first 1911. I really like the smoother, crisper and lighter trigger on the Kimber and Wilson and that made both of them a more accurate pistol for me.

The cheap shortcuts like all of the MIM parts on the Kimber considering the price turned me off.

[shadow65]

I have a Springfield Champion with EGW componets in it. Runs great. I bought a new SA Micro .45 and had the worst trigger I've ever had on a 1911, much less a $1150 pistol.
I also have a Kimber Eclipse. Very nice and very reliable. In all fairness, it was a first run actual Custom Shop build, and is marked as such.

If I were buying now, it would be a Colt. You won't go wrong.
You might also find a good deal on an Ed Brown for $1500 if you look.

[AKTexas]

http://three-dog.homelinux.com/cpg15x/albums/userpics/10012/normal_1911.jpg

Taurus PT1911

http://three-dog.homelinux.com/cpg15x/albums/userpics/10012/normal_Colt_1911.jpg

Colt XSE

[swampdragon]

I regards to fit.....

The looser fitting GI models are made that way ON PURPOSE.
The tighter fitting guns are likewise made that way ON PURPOSE.

The difference being improved accuracy over improved reliability.
Which type of gun you get should depend on what it's intended use is.

[hazmat]

I've got a hodge-podge of 1911s. From the lowly HS Crusader Compact all the way up to a 2008 Dan Wesson CBOB in 10mm. As far as straight out accuracy is concerned, the Taurus PT 1911 I got used surprised the shit out of me. For tightness and overall fit and finish, the CBOB is the best one I've handled.

My recommendation to you is try out several in the store. Finger-f*ck the snot out of them. If they'll let you, take 'em down and look at the internals. Then make up your mind. Besides, if'n you don't like it, you can trade into or for a different/better one!

My CBOB:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/hazmat97/1911%20Stuff/DSCF0140.jpg

BTW, some of us don't necessarily have to 'have' all the cool stuff on a 1911, but when you're a southpaw, it helps! :wink:

[Krupski]

I have been very happy with my Springfield GI Issue. Granted, it was much less expensive than you are looking at, but I have been happy with that version of their 1911.

+1

I have a Springfield "GI .45" and it works every bit as well as my two "real" Colt 1911 pistols.

There's really no reason to pay more than around $500 or $600 for a good 1911... any more and you're just paying for the name and the hype.

[NAPOTS]

My father has a couple of S&W 1911's that are around the same price range and they are well build guns and shoot well. The only problem with the Kimber, Colt and the S&W is the firing pin safety. At least its easy to get rid of the springfield ILS.


I have a Springfield Champion with EGW componets in it. Runs great. I bought a new SA Micro .45 and had the worst trigger I've ever had on a 1911, much less a $1150 pistol.
I also have a Kimber Eclipse. Very nice and very reliable. In all fairness, it was a first run actual Custom Shop build, and is marked as such.

If I were buying now, it would be a Colt. You won't go wrong.
You might also find a good deal on an Ed Brown for $1500 if you look.

[ready]

I think I'm sold on the SA Milspec. Just going to research a little more so I don't impulse buy.

[Skarmajunga]

I have two S&W 1911s, they are great guns but I have never compared them to anything else on a personal level, another shooter I know had the springfield 1911 and was very happy with it.

[Paladin]

Find an old Colt series 70 government & build it. Go slow & increase your budget gradually over time.

[ready]

How about extractors. External vs. Internal. I know JMB designed it with an internal but he also put an external on the HP. I see some of the high end custom makers are also offering external extractors. External seems low maintenance and easier to replace. Why go traditional?

[Krupski]

How about extractors. External vs. Internal. I know JMB designed it with an internal but he also put an external on the HP. I see some of the high end custom makers are also offering external extractors. External seems low maintenance and easier to replace. Why go traditional?

The internal extractor of a 1911 works just fine. As far as "easier to replace", the internal one is easier. You just remove the firing pin retainer and it slides out the back. An external extractor usually requires that a pin be driven out with a punch.

As long as you have a good extractor (good edge on it and tensioned properly), it will work 100%.

[Krupski]

Find an old Colt series 70 government & build it. Go slow & increase your budget gradually over time.

+! yes get a Series 70, NOT a Series 80.

[ready]

Don't internal extractors have to be bent a certain way to apply the appropriate force to extract? If I had to buy a replacement, is it drop in or would I have to bend it myself?

[NAPOTS]

Don't internal extractors have to be bent a certain way to apply the appropriate force to extract? If I had to buy a replacement, is it drop in or would I have to bend it myself?

I was under this impression as well. If I remember right the extractor generally has a high round count before failure, most of us probably won't shoot that much.

[crlovel]

I recently purchased a Smith & Wesson 1911. Great pistol, absolutely love it, and very accurate.

[Krupski]

Don't internal extractors have to be bent a certain way to apply the appropriate force to extract? If I had to buy a replacement, is it drop in or would I have to bend it myself?

USUALLY, when you buy a replacement (internal) extractor, they are pre-bent to the right tension.

If you DO need to bend one, it's very easy to do.. and it's not all that critical.

What you should know about a 1911 extractor is that it does not ride up and then snap over the rim of the cartridge... the cartridge slides up the breechface and under the extractor.

That's why you're supposed to chamber a 1911 from the magazine and NOT by placing a round in the chamber and closing the slide.

I adjust my extractors on the tight side. You can check the tension by using a regular round (or safer.... a dummy round). Chamber it, then pull the slide back slowly so that the round hits the ejector. If it hangs up on the extractor and is fairly difficult to pull off by hand, it's adjusted properly.

The "violence" of the slide coming back after a real firing is more than enough to flip the spent casing out.

[ready]

Roger that. I just looked at a Springfield Loaded "Champion" Looks like a decent carry piece...

[shadow65]

My father has a couple of S&W 1911's that are around the same price range and they are well build guns and shoot well. The only problem with the Kimber, Colt and the S&W is the firing pin safety. At least its easy to get rid of the springfield ILS.

I'll give you that. ILS is easily replaced.
I wish other manufacturers would have taken the same road Springfield di as far as lawyer induced modifications to JMB's design.

[crlovel]

Ready, what part of Bucks County are you in? We have a wealth of gun shops around here. Tanner's has a good suppply of 1911's, probably the best supply in the area. Surplus City always has some, too. Quinby's usually has a few, too.

[ready]

I'm in Bristol. I've never been in Quinby's, that's a little far north for me but I'm in Tanner's all the time and Rob and Surplus City knows me well. Bought my first gun from him. There's a few others I check out occasionally but those are my 2 favorites.

[Krupski]

I'll give you that. ILS is easily replaced.
I wish other manufacturers would have taken the same road Springfield di as far as lawyer induced modifications to JMB's design.

My Springfield GI 45 came in a 1911A1 configuration and I wanted it to look like an older 1911, so I replaced the appropriate parts (one of them being the curved mainspring housing). I installed a new-old stock arsenal spare flat housing on my Springer which of course gets rid of the stupid ILS. Thankfully, the ILS part is a standard size and a genuine 1911 part drops right in place of it.

[itchyfinger]

Buy the one I just posted in the market place. Save yourself some money. I'd put it up against a TRP, Wilson, EB, any of them. Best shooting 1911 I've ever owned and I've owned all the afore mentioned. :eyebrows:

[TEN-32]

Can one of you elaborate a bit on the Springfield ILS mainspring housing? I'm trying to decide whether or not to replace it. What are the benefits, and what is the process to remove/replace?

Thanks.

[ready]

I don't know anything about the ILS mainspring housing but there are some videos on youtube for complete disassembly and reassembly of 1911's.

[Gunreference1]

Can one of you elaborate a bit on the Springfield ILS mainspring housing? I'm trying to decide whether or not to replace it. What are the benefits, and what is the process to remove/replace?

Thanks.

TEN-32, visit the link below. It shold give you the information you need to remove & replace the Springfield ILS system.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=135279

Hope this helps!

Steve

[aliceinchains]

Roger that. I just looked at a Springfield Loaded "Champion" Looks like a decent carry piece...

Seems like your leaning to Springfield. I have a champion and love it.

[Arnulf]

So, I had a Sig GSR 1911 a few years ago. It's the only 1911 I've ever owned. I sold it and I've regretted it ever since. I'm looking at buying another one but haven't decided on which one to get. I have about a $1500 budget. I was thinking Springfield TRP but I thought I'd ask you guys, first. It will be an occasional carry gun so reliablity is important.

Thanks in advance!

I seen a Thompson 1911 .45 on the falfiles for $375?

[TEN-32]

TEN-32, visit the link below. It shold give you the information you need to remove & replace the Springfield ILS system.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=135279

Hope this helps!

Steve

Thank you Steven. I don't see what benefit I will derive from replacing this assembly. I think I'll leave it stock.

[NAPOTS]

Thank you Steven. I don't see what benefit I will derive from replacing this assembly. I think I'll leave it stock.

I think the feeling is that its extra crap that doesn't need to be there and was put there not by John Browning but by lawyers wanting to reduce their liability. Its a key operated safety. The real worry is if it fails in the locked position when you need it or you can't find the key you are screwed.

[TEN-32]

I think the feeling is that its extra crap that doesn't need to be there and was put there not by John Browning but by lawyers wanting to reduce their liability. Its a key operated safety. The real worry is if it fails in the locked position when you need it or you can't find the key you are screwed.

Well, that makes sense. I would never use the key safety on this or any other gun...so probably mute. I may replace it now out of principal though. :gunman:

[gpwasr10]

I only own one 1911...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/dudemaestro/100_3210.jpg?t=1282794190

A Taurus PT-1911... It was a little tight for the Slide/Frame for my purposes, so I stoned the slide juuust a tad.

It came with....
Full length guide rod & reverse plug
Heinie Straight Eight Sights
Serrated slide rear and front (Which they Fucked up and ground them at different depths)
Checkered 30-lpi trigger guard
Checkered 30-lpi mainspring housing
Checkered 30-lpi frontstrap
Ambidextrous safety
Beavertail grip safety with memory pad
Skeletonized hammer
Skeleton serrated trigger
Trigger job
Custom fit barrel (air-gauged bushing)
Custom slide to frame fit
Polished feedramp and barrel throat
Lowered and flared ejection port
Custom internal extractor
Extended mag release button
Beveled mag well
Extra 8-round magazine

I have now added...

Wilson Combat Extended safety
Wilson Combat Extended Slide Release
EGW Custom Fit Bushing
Fusion Ejector
Wolf Spring Upgrade Kit
Custom Fit Colt Series 80 SS plunger (So I could use the Wolff series 80 spring the Taurus Series 80 Parts [including the extractor] are just slightly out of spec)
Ed Brown Hard Core Firing Pin
Kimber Desert Warrior Style Grips
Bear Coat Tactical Black finish by Rocky Mountain Arms

So it's a fairly Custom piece with about a thousand bucks in it but the thing shoots great, Trigger breaks clean at right at 4 lbs., Shoots a 3" group at 25 yards, 3000 trouble free rounds and counting...

[Arnulf]

A SA GI .45 is all you need....all else is vanity.

[gpwasr10]

A SA GI .45 is all you need....all else is vanity.

Vanity with balls!

[Schuetzenman]

Let me ask this. I can get a standard GI spec gun for $5-600. A TRP is around to $1350. All I really need is reliability, good sights and a mag well slightly wider than a coin slot to facilitate reloads. Do I need a $1500 gun? What's the benefit of the skeletonized hammers and triggers and all that b.s.? Can I just get a GI spec 1911, put some Novak's on it and sometype of magwell insert and have a reliable carry gun?

Get a Glock 30 and be done with the issue. No reliability issues, very simple, no manual safet to remember to take off under stress. Pull it, point it and pull the trigger, goes bang every time.

[Arnulf]

Get a Glock 30 and be done with the issue. No reliability issues, very simple, no manual safet to remember to take off under stress. Pull it, point it and pull the trigger, goes bang every time.

But plastics not cool.:ashooteremoyt7:

[Krupski]

Can one of you elaborate a bit on the Springfield ILS mainspring housing? I'm trying to decide whether or not to replace it. What are the benefits, and what is the process to remove/replace?

Thanks.

Sorry didn't see your question before.

The Springfield ILS is a standard size (externally) mainspring housing. However, it has a longer follower and a shorter spring, and a key operated "cam" in the rear. The key has two very easy to break off pins protruding from it which turn the cam. If the cam is turned to the "lock" position, it engages the extra long follower and prevents the mainspring from being compressed (which, in turn, prevents cocking the pistol).

All of the internal parts of the ILS housing are non-standard, so you can't just replace parts. However, EXTERNALLY the size and shape is identical to any other 1911. So, simply tap out the bottom pin that holds the mainspring housing in place, slide out the ILS and give it a toss into the garbage, then slide in a standard 1911 part and put the cross pin back in.

[Krupski]

Thank you Steven. I don't see what benefit I will derive from replacing this assembly. I think I'll leave it stock.

It will be fine until vibration rotates it to the locked position. And Murphy's law guarantees that this will happen at the worst possible time.

[Krupski]

But plastics not cool.:ashooteremoyt7:

Disagree. Plastic is great for cookwear...... :)

[gpwasr10]

Get a Glock 30 and be done with the issue. No reliability issues, very simple, no manual safet to remember to take off under stress. Pull it, point it and pull the trigger, goes bang every time.

+1 If this is going to be your only auto...

Glocks, M&P, XD's are all better options if you are going to be using this for self defence. I love my 1911... BUT... it is a design that is 100 years old and their have been some improvements in both design and execution of the sidearm. And while I trust my PT-1911 to be 100% when the cards are down, as it has always been... The fact remains that the XD is lighter, more comforatable, carries more rounds, is just as accurate, more simple to maintain, etc... These facts religate my 1911 to being mostly a "range gun".

For carry I use the XD-9 SC and for Home Defence I use an XD-45 Tactical (two guns, one manual of arms). And while I like alot of the XD's options that Glock does not offer (Not to mention the more western grip angle), thus personally prefering it. I also will push a Glock if your comfy with their grip angle as no one can argue with their track record across different individuals and agencies world wide.

The XD and the M&P along with the FNP are great pistols too... the Glock is the AK of the handgun world.

Like Revolvers, most guys carry a 1911 because of the romance associated with it.... nothing wrong with that as long as the gun is reliable...

[Schuetzenman]

But plastics not cool.:ashooteremoyt7:

Not in my world, it's very cool and it doesn't rust. Unless you plan to leave your handgun sit out in sunlight every day a Glock's frame will out last you and your kids lifetime probably. A lot lighter in CCW as well, less mass pull down on your ass.

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

Just to add...

I REALLY like my Rock Island 1911a1.

Sure, there's no stippling on the front of the grip, the internals are not polished to a high gloss, and the hammer will bite you if you hold it wrong, and the sights look like the afterthought of some WWI era armorer who was more accustomed to carving out wooden dummy guns for the army to practice with, than he was used to working with actual weapons.

But it goes bang every time. It looks like pure classic G.I. goodnes. And they can be had for under $400 if you look around.

I would pick it over my SA Milspec any day. Heavier components. Better fit and finish. Better reliability.

Just mi dos centavos amigos!

[hazmat]

Had me one of them thar 'plastic' pistols. Wadn't bad, but then along came Col Sam Colt and his con-sarn Delta Elite. That danged old steel confabration from John Moses Browning (peace be upon him) decided me right then and there that my days of playing patty cake with a plastic pistole were done.

In other words, I had me a XD SC in .40 short, and when I got that 10mm Delta, I wasn't looking back at the XD. Never had much use for most DA autoloaders, save the XD, mainly because of the safety issues surrounding them. The XD had one feature that appealed to me and that was the cocked indicator sticking out the ass end of the slide. I prefer to look upon the ass end of my pistol and see something that equates to "cocked and ready to rock", namely a hammer of some sort, and the Glock, S&W, Taurus, et al didn't have that nifty little feature.

But that's just me. Others may find their actual feelings different than mine. And what, exactly, is wrong with a 100 yr old design that's killed bad guys in 2 world wars, 2 police actions, and countless little skirmishes in between?

[gpwasr10]

And what, exactly, is wrong with a 100 yr old design that's killed bad guys in 2 world wars, 2 police actions, and countless little skirmishes in between?

Well, to me? Capacity, simplicity, ergonomics and corrosion resistance... just to name a few.
A 1911 will kill a man as well as anything else out there... but why limit yourself to 100 year old tech?

[NewbieAKguy]

Valid points GP, but I don't know if I'd consider it "limited" per se. Just because it's a century old doesn't mean it isn't effective anymore. AK is roughly 60 years old and today's models are the same functionally as before, just got a face lift with new furniture :). Same with the 1911. You can go the match route with tight tolerances for tightest groups possible, "loose" tolerances for ultimate battle reliability, or even somewhere in between. Plus with 1911s now with double-stack mags, or even 10 rounders, they can compete with the polymer framed guns too.

I'd say ergonomics are just as good, if not better than most polymer guns...many pistols try to emulate the grip angle of the 1911. Corrosion resistance is improved with all of today's coatings, and true about the simplicity. But, if you train/practice with it on regular basis, a person won't be any slower dropping the safety :). As the saying goes, "Beware the man with only one gun....."

Buuuuuut, I fully admit a polymer framed gun can be had with all of the above at a lower cost. And I admit, I'd grab my g21sf before my 1911 for above reasons :D......until maybe I get a hi-cap Para :D. Heck, even Larry Vickers himself says that unless you know how to run a 1911 to its max., stick with a glock, xd, m&p, etc.

[HDR]

Get a Glock 30 and be done with the issue. No reliability issues, very simple, no manual safet to remember to take off under stress. Pull it, point it and pull the trigger, goes bang every time.


I've owned 1911-A1s since the early 1960s and never had a reliability issue. It is very simple to operate and it is not squarish so it doesn't print as well as a Glock.

I like the trigger a whole bunch better than a Glock's and the 1911-A1 points better for me.

For me, a Glock creates issues.

[Mark Ducati]

Shopping for a 1911?

Sorry, my grandmother is taken!

hahaha... couldn't resist!

[jet3534]

Kimber CDP II.

[HDR]

I think the feeling is that its extra crap that doesn't need to be there and was put there not by John Browning but by lawyers wanting to reduce their liability. Its a key operated safety. The real worry is if it fails in the locked position when you need it or you can't find the key you are screwed.

Litigation wasn't as common back then so I doubt being sued was on anyone's mind as it is today.

The worry of failure applies to any firearm's mechanical systems; not just one. Needing to unlock one and can't find the key most likely means children in the house.


A SA GI .45 is all you need....all else is vanity.

I'm not as sure about the vanity as I am a plain vanilla 1911-A1 is all that is needed. IF you were caught without a rifle. :D :D

The 1911-A1 has been at every big dance of the 20th Century (WWI, WWII, Korean, Vietnam) and a lot of the small ones all over the world. So proving it lacks anything needed is more than difficult.


(again, if you lack a rifle.) lol

[NAPOTS]

I am not sure I really understand the reservation against the manual safety on the 1911. If you shoot as often as you should properly operating the pistol should become natural. Dropping the safety before you fire should be muscle memory. If you develop a consistant manual of arms you should do it subconsciously even under stress.

There have been some nice improvements to the 1911 since its inception. The extended safety, better sights, lowered ejection port, flared mag well, better trigger, beavertail all make it a little nicer to shoot, but I prefer the 70 series firing system with GI guide rod.

Its hard to find a semi-custom 1911 with a 70 series now. Springfield has it but you have to ditch the ILS and most manufacturer's love MIM parts.