Why Am I Shooting To The Left?

[American Rage]

Went shooting with a buddy yesterday, and no matter what I did all my shots hit to the left of the bull. I shot 2 handguns, a 10/22, and an AR15. Also, I shot them all both left and right handed. Regardless or which hand or which weapon I fired, everything fell to the left of the bullseye.

The AR was a quick fix due to its adjustable rear sight. In fact, I hit the bull 3 out of 5 times in my final string of the day. The other two shots were a couple of inches above and below the bull, producing a vertical string that cut the target in half.

But how do I fix the rear sights on my Glocks or adjust the 10/22? As far as the Glocks go, it may have had something to do with the crappy UMC ammo I was shooting. Or perhaps I need to improve the control of my trigger finger?

On one round, I made sure that my sights were completely inline with the bull. All the shots were to the left, but one shot dropped 6-8 inches below the bull and to the left. That told me a lot about the ammo I was using. Any suggestions?


Rage

[RJ Shooter]

It's almost always because of trigger control. Even with the left hand, when people pull to the left, it's because of the way you're pulling the trigger and many times anticipating the shot...

The best way to see what you're doing, is to shoot a revolver. Load all but one cylinder. Spin the cylinder before closing it, not looking at where the empty chamber is. When you get to that cylinder, you'll probably catch yourself anticipating the shot, jerking slightly left, and possibly down just a little bit.

And if you're using an auto, you can load a "snap cap" somewhere in the mag. Usually it's better to let someone else load them for you, so you don't know when the dry fire will occur.

[ksuguy]

Are you pulling the trigger with your knuckle? That can push you off to the left.

[old Grump]

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/wheel.gif

Time to break out the snap caps, get that 9x11 sheet of paper up on the wall with a tiny cross drawn with a fine black ink pen in the middle of it. Get your barrel 1/2" from that cross and start dry firing. Any deflection will show up immediately and faults discovered even quicker.

Best and cheapest practice you can get and by the time you get off 10 perfect shots for that exercise you will realize its also one of the hardest practices. Sure will show up on the range though. Take your time, go slow and build that muscle memory. Won't happen over night, there is no quick fix.

[American Rage]

Thanks guys.

Old Grump, according to your chart, I'm not placing my finger properly on the trigger. I always thought I was supposed to use the pad of my first digit. Is this incorrect?


Rage

[American Rage]

Are you pulling the trigger with your knuckle? That can push you off to the left.

I don't believe I am. I try to shoot with the pad on my finger. However, it was super hot yesterday and I had to fight both the sun and the sweat flowing into my eyes.


Rage

[ready]

Your finger could be creeping, especially in the heat. When you finish your course of fire, check to see where your fingers at. For a right handed shooter, it's almost always trigger pull and anticipation. Bust out the .22 handgun, it's a good training tool in that it eliminates most recoil related problems and you can concentrate on sight picture, sight alignment, trigger pull.

Web of the hand high on the backstrap, drag the trigger straight to the rear. Index finger on the support side should be in contact with the trigger guard. Body square to the target.

[American Rage]

Your finger could be creeping, especially in the heat. When you finish your course of fire, check to see where your fingers at. For a right handed shooter, it's almost always trigger pull and anticipation. Bust out the .22 handgun, it's a good training tool in that it eliminates most recoil related problems and you can concentrate on sight picture, sight alignment, trigger pull.

Web of the hand high on the backstrap, drag the trigger straight to the rear. Index finger on the support side should be in contact with the trigger guard. Body square to the target.

Thanks, I purchased a Ruger MKII a few months ago just for training.

Rage

[ready]

Can't beat .22's for practice. I have a .22 version of just about everything I own.

I forgot to add, make sure you're following through. Don't relax as soon as you hear the bang, give the round a chance to exit the barrel before you reset the trigger.

[American Rage]

Can't beat .22's for practice. I have a .22 version of just about everything I own.

I forgot to add, make sure you're following through. Don't relax as soon as you hear the bang, give the round a chance to exit the barrel before you reset the trigger.

That's good advice. Thanks.

Rage

[old Grump]

I had a terrible time when I began with to tight a grip and jerking the trigger as soon as my sights lined up. I took a break from competition and the 45 for a few months and most of my shooting was with a 22 at jack rabbits. It wasn't exactly dry fire practice but I eased up on my grip and quit anticipating which means I quit jerking. When I went back to shooting 45 and competing I moved quickly up the ladder but I couldn't have if I had kept on making the same mistake. You need to do the baby steps first and no matter how good you get dry fire will always be part of your routine if you want to keep the good habits.

A lot of things like your hand size the thickness of the grip, the length of pull from the face of the trigger to the back of your grip where it meets the web of your hand, swivel trigger vs straight pull trigger, light pull vs heavy pull, creep vs 2 stage vs crisp target type trigger. Everything makes a difference and you need to work through it. No one word answers, just lots of work. Enjoy.

[swampdragon]

Why Am I Shooting To The Left?


Because all the liberals are over there.

[American Rage]

OG, I'm shooting a Glock.


Rage

[swampdragon]

OG, I'm shooting a Glock.


Rage

Ya know? In all seriousness....
Every single firearms training course I've ever been a part of said the same thing.
Military and Civilian alike.

"Use the pad of your finger" to pull the trigger.
I never could do that and still don't.
And I still repeatedly qualified Expert.
I guess I'm just weird or have long fingers or something, but that NEVER worked for me.
When I started placing the trigger in the end joint of my finger, my scores went way up every time.

Maybe you are just abnormal. I am.
Try different trigger finger placements just to see what happens.

[old Grump]

OG, I'm shooting a Glock.


Rage

Don't make no never mind. I shoot Glocks just fine, not my favorite gun to shoot but I made my adjustments a long time ago and now you have to do the same. Remember I said there are no single answers, no one correct way to shoot. I rail against instructors who say you have to do this and this and this and you have to do it exactly as I say because they are giving bum advice. It's a good starting point but everybody has to make their own adjustment.

In your case I'm guessing that you need to lighten up a little, trust me the dry fire drill will teach you more than anything I or anybody else can say in words. Your hand, your gun, your eyes.

I had 2 shooters on my Army rserve team, one man and one WAC whose hands were so small they held the 45 with their thumbs to get their finger far enough into the trigger guard to shoot one handed which was required for bullseye shooters. I shot on the 5th Army team with a shooter from Oklahoma whose hands were so large he could barely get the tip of his finger in the trigger guard. I have a 22 caliber revolver that I shoot with the first joint of my finger, all the rest its with my pad. Never mind what somebody says you have to do, do what works but do it consistently. Did I mention dry fire?

[l921428x]

OG, I have many different handguns and everyone of them has a different trigger length, width of grip, trigger weight of pull, even weight of the handgun.
Question is, how does this effect over all performance when I or anyone else shoots their handguns?

[ready]

Basics are always the same. That why it's very important to pick a weapon that fits you, though. I had a H&K P30. Felt great in my hands, accurate as hell, couldn't get used to the trigger. Got rid of it.

[l921428x]

What are the basic basics? I mean, I think I know how to shoot but I have never had any formal training with a handgun.

[old Grump]

What are the basic basics? I mean, I think I know how to shoot but I have never had any formal training with a handgun.

Jumping ahead and assuming the gun is clean and unloaded and you are familiar with the safety rules. Snap cap preferably but not required to be installed in cylinder or chamber. No matter what gun you have whether it is revolver or pistol, big boom or little boom. One handed, two handed, weak hand, strong hand, off hand, or bench, it does not matter, first you need to get a proper grip.

Pick the handgun up with your offhand and place it in your shooting hand. Grip it as if you were going to shake hands with it. Grip is pressed into the web of your forefinger and thumb, back strap is in your palm, trigger finger alongside the trigger guard. It had better be solid. Point is a firm grip but not hard. I used to squeeze water out of the grip, or tried to. If the gun shakes you are squeezing to hard, if it shakes after 10 seconds its to hard, if you shake your hand up and down or back and forth and it shifts in your hand its to soft. If another person can grip it by the barrel and shift it in your hand your grip is to soft. There is a happy medium. If your hand is to big or to little for the gun you need to make adjustments now before you waste a hundred dollars worth of ammunition.

To many sources for stances and after market grips and its beyond the scope of this thread. I am only trying to give bare bone basics.

Get the gun up to shooting position whatever your chosen position is. Look at the front sight. Use both eyes and focus on that front sight. If you can stick your thumbnail up in the air and focus on that you can focus on the frontsight.

Now it gets tricky. You need to point it at the target but you can't look at the target, you look at the front sight. In this case we will use a sheet of clean white paper. Using a fine tip black pen draw a vertical line about 2" long and a horizontal line through the middle of that line so you have a cross. Fasten that paper up at eyeball height so the cross is in the center of your field of vision when you look straight at it.

You put the barrel of that gun up against the paper and back off about 1/2" The top of your sight will be even with the horizontal line and the vertical line will rise straight up from the middle of that sight.

At last I mention rear sight and trigger. Basics taught is breath control, sight control trigger control. Take a few fairly deep breaths, one deep one, release half to a third of the air and you are good for about 20 seconds. You line up that front sight in the middle of the notch of your rear sight. Now we take two jobs, sight control and trigger control and turn them into one easy to remember task. Imagine that front sight is attached to your trigger with a long steel strap. When you move the trigger you are moving the front sight.

Trick is to move that front sight straight back through the notch without disturbing the alignment by pressing that trigger straight back into the palm of your hand. This is why you don't jerk the trigger and is why you are taught to press back. Your hand, your gun you have to decide how much finger to put on the trigger. That damn vertical and horizontal line will scream at you when you do it wrong. You continue doing that exercise till you have 10 perfect shots. That means the line didn't move when the hammer came down. It is ungodly hard, even with a good trigger. A long creepy trigger or a heavy rough trigger will have you sweating bullets metaphorically speaking. Do this several times a week till you get your 10 shots done in a reasonable amount of time, say under 10 minutes. Now you are ready for boom, and recoil. You and only you can see where that front sight is going and you and only you can tell what you did wrong and take the steps to correct it.

Now you see why us dinosaurs recommend the first gun be a 22. It is also why I recommend you try it in your hand first. The perfect gun for HDR or Swampy or Chiak or me will not be the perfect gun for you or your wife or you child. We don't pick your nose for you and we can't tell you what gun is best for you. Listen to your hand.

[swampdragon]

Grump basically just told you "Talk to the Hand."

:yeah:

[l921428x]

Basic basics, thank you for the information. Yeah I don't even like picking my nose.

[swampdragon]

Basic basics, thank you for the information. Yeah I don't even like picking my nose.

Check this:
It may help....


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-35/chap2.htm

[O.S.O.K.]

40 Creek Wiskey. No doubt.

[American Rage]

40 Creek Wiskey. No doubt.

:joker:


Rage

[l921428x]

Thanks Swampy, good informational read.

[swampdragon]

Thanks Swampy, good informational read.

No problem.
Nothing beats actual practice, but sometimes it's just easier to post a manual than to try to explain it all.

[l921428x]

Know that this type of reading helps. Along with OGs chart thinggy, maybe I can get a grip, pun intended, as to why I have never been able to shoot consistently
with a handgun. I am deadly as hell with a rifle, literally cannot hit anything with a handgun.

[swampdragon]

Know that this type of reading helps. Along with OGs chart thinggy, maybe I can get a grip, pun intended, as to why I have never been able to shoot consistently
with a handgun. I am deadly as hell with a rifle, literally cannot hit anything with a handgun.

Handguns are a different animal completely aren't they? lol...
The biggest thing is don't expect rifle-like accuracy right away.
It just won't happen.
But with time, you'll get better and better.

[old Grump]

Like Swampy says, it won't happen right away and like I preach, the hurrieder you go the behinder you get. You can't hurry it.

Dang Swampy you published half the manual. Almost, I say almost like the one I have on my shelf. Except mine was published by the USAMU is 40 years older and doesn't have a FM number. I had to pull it off the shelf and start thumbing through it and now damn it I will be reading the whole damn thing again because of all the little things and a few big things I have forgotten or just take for granted and forget to talk about.

[HDR]

Thanks guys.

Old Grump, according to your chart, I'm not placing my finger properly on the trigger.

Rage

As the end effect of both move the muzzle left OG's chart or what RJ said are good places to start. It is easy to test re-positioning your trigger finger. If your group moves, you fixed it.

Edit:
I did not mean to miss anyone else; OG's chart and RJ's advice are two of the usual culprits. ;)