ANESTHTIC for minor surgery

[Mark Ducati]

With all the talk of surgical kits and wound repair and such... have you thought about anesthetic?

One of the things you guys NEED! Is a stainless steel syringe, needles and anesthetic.

Here's what I use:
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/231305984/Dental_Syringe.jpg

In a SHTF scenario, you could boil the entire metal syringe in water for 10-12 minutes to sterilize it.

Needles:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcROm_y2VxjCf8LL0h71gyd86pICeZaTW E4ETTaVmqdM9F5DnISqHw

Needles come in long/short configuration and usually 30ga or 25-27ga, with 30ga being a smaller diameter needle.

They usually come like 100 per box.

Now comes the Anesthetic... typically 2% Lidocaine with 1:100,000 epinephrine... the epi constricts the capillaries/veins so that the anesthetic doesn't wash away too fast or wear off sooner.

http://www.musclecars.net/parts/parts-images-large/dental-anesthetic-lidocaine-2-epinepherine-1-100-000_330512982333.jpg

These "carpules" are pre-meassured... the maximum dose you can give a normal 175 lbs. adult is about 11 of the 1.8cc carpules.

Syringe $30 bucks
Needles $30 bucks
Anesthetic $30 bucks

Basically, for a little of $100 bucks, you've got a re-usable syringe that uses disposable needles... although, the anesthetic typically has a 2 year shelf life.

IF any of you would like to order a syringe/box of needles/box of anesthetic... I can look up the exact prices when I get back in the office and ship them to you for actual cost....

If you're trying to dig a bullet out or have to sew up a gash... wouldn't it be easier if you infilitrated the surgical sight with a little anesthetic first?

And that brings me to my last item you forgot about... okay, so you have some hemostats (although you really should be using "need forceps" as the cross-hatching grooves are different than hemostats)... but how about a box of these?

http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/50223258/Surgical_Suture.jpg

Different kinds of suture... I keep 4.0 silk for basic suturing extra-oral, 4.0 Chromic Gut for in the mouth where its wet as these dissolve away on their own, and 6.0 nylon for facial wounds as the small 6.0 filament is less likely to leave a scar.

Suture is expensive though... usually about $45-60 bucks a box!

Even so.... for a basic set up of syringe, anesthetic, needles, suture... you could get a kit together for under $200 bucks.

I don't know this stuff is regulated or not... but I can get it through my office for you if you want to get a set-up together. PM me and we can make arrangements.

[recon]

:thumbsup:

[AKTexas]

Good information, but I think in the SHTF kidnapping a doctor would be easier. :laugh:

[recon]

How about a good pocket size medical book?

[Infidelski]

Great info and idea. Have not thought about the anesthic but have a few small suture kits that have come in handy over the past 10 years. Sewed my finger together last year after an accident with bread knife, practiced a few years earlier on our dogs paw while boating, no anesthetic for either of us... Not recommended and have scar to prove it.

Had to hog tie the dog to the swim platform including towel over his head so as not to bite me. It did work.

[O.S.O.K.]

I was planning on using Jack Daniels or whatever we have on hand... but I'd rather have a Dentist nearby that could help out ;)

I do have some sutures and basic med kits.

I think it will be even more important to stock up on basic stuff like aspirin. A feaver can kill you quick if you don't have a way to check it.

[Krupski]

One of the things you guys NEED! Is a stainless steel syringe, needles and anesthetic.

One thing to note for those who would boil a syringe to sterilize it... PLASTIC ones like Bectin/Dickenson orange cap insulin syringes are molded with stresses built in so that if they are boiled, they warp into a useless configuration.

If nothing else is available, a plastic syringe needs to be sterilized with ethanol and then flushed with sterile water for injection. Even then, it's only as a last resort.

(edit to add) it's also important when injecting subcutaneously to first pull back on the syringe and be sure the needle isn't in a vein!

[O.S.O.K.]

I think I'll just stick with some ice held on the spot until numb. :eek:

[recon]

it's also important when injecting subcutaneously to first pull back on the syringe and be sure the needle isn't in a vein!

I can't remember the reason for that?

[O.S.O.K.]

So the drug doesn't go directly to the brain of the patient and knock him off (actually, that'd be an artery) but in a vein, it'd go right to the heart... and then into the lungs... not good. You want it to stay in the tissue where you're going to cut...

[Krupski]

I can't remember the reason for that?

An injection like lidocaine or whatever to numb local pain could cause serious problems if injected into the bloodstream.

Also, if intending to inject intravenously, it's important to pull back and verify that you ARE getting blood (i.e. in a vein) and also look at the color of the blood to be sure you aren't in an artery.

Injecting a medication into a vein sends it first through your heart and lungs, where it is diluted (i.e. not a strong corrosive "slug" of medicine in one spot) and also filtered for particulates by the lungs before it goes on to the arterial system.

If a medication is accidentally injected into an artery, it can burn or damage tissues that get the first concentrated flushing of the drug, and any particulates can plug small arteries or capillaries and cause localized necrosis (tissue death).

Doctors, drug addicts and former drug addicts all know this... :)

[Zoff12]

Find the local Drug Dealer... put one in his brain panhttp://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/zoff12/head-shot.gif...take his cocaine and haul ass. http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/zoff12/free-scared-smileys-3665B15D.gif

:laugh:

[coppertales]

and use a stick between the teeth. That has worked just fine for thousands of years.....chris3

[btcave]

Thanks Mark!

I'm glad I got a dentist who owns a small ranch a 1/4 mile up the hill from me. I think the man has more firepower than i do. He's always shooting something up there Christmas morning. As well as the fact my wife works for a dental office. I'm covered for dental, but the medical I'm not so sure. The guy behind my property is a nurse at the VA and I have combat lifesaver training. Surgery tools and herbal medicinal books would come in handy.

Helpful to know your neighbors and their abilities when TSHTF and your bugging in.

[O.S.O.K.]

An injection like lidocaine or whatever to numb local pain could cause serious problems if injected into the bloodstream.

Also, if intending to inject intravenously, it's important to pull back and verify that you ARE getting blood (i.e. in a vein) and also look at the color of the blood to be sure you aren't in an artery.

Injecting a medication into a vein sends it first through your heart and lungs, where it is diluted (i.e. not a strong corrosive "slug" of medicine in one spot) and also filtered for particulates by the lungs before it goes on to the arterial system.

If a medication is accidentally injected into an artery, it can burn or damage tissues that get the first concentrated flushing of the drug, and any particulates can plug small arteries or capillaries and cause localized necrosis (tissue death).

Doctors, drug addicts and former drug addicts all know this... :)

And guys that took biology, zoology and physiology in HS and aced the classes ;)

Of course, some guys like to show off :lool: Gotcha.

[kekaha]

does the syringe only take those pre-measured capsules or will it also be able to draw out of a vial? i don't see any cc hash marks on it?

[abpt1]

Find the local Drug Dealer... put one in his brain panhttp://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/zoff12/head-shot.gif...take his cocaine and haul ass. http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/zoff12/free-scared-smileys-3665B15D.gif

:laugh:


You dont want your heart beating faster while your leaking ....You would be better off with a can of whipped cream like in that movie.

[Richard Simmons]

One thing to note for those who would boil a syringe to sterilize it... PLASTIC ones like Bectin/Dickenson orange cap insulin syringes are molded with stresses built in so that if they are boiled, they warp into a useless configuration.

If nothing else is available, a plastic syringe needs to be sterilized with ethanol and then flushed with sterile water for injection. Even then, it's only as a last resort.

(edit to add) it's also important when injecting subcutaneously to first pull back on the syringe and be sure the needle isn't in a vein!

When you say ethanol are you talking about liquor? You see it in the old westerns but I was wondering if a good 80 or 100 proof liquor would actually work for a topical disinfectant or if that's just the movies?

[Zoff12]

You dont want your heart beating faster while your leaking ....You would be better off with a can of whipped cream like in that movie.
LOL... you're right about that but I was talking about using it as a local.

[Krupski]

When you say ethanol are you talking about liquor? You see it in the old westerns but I was wondering if a good 80 or 100 proof liquor would actually work for a topical disinfectant or if that's just the movies?

I was talking about 200 proof USP alcohol (pure alcohol). But, in a pinch I'm sure some good vodka or whiskey would work.

Really, anything toxic (ethanol, methanol, bleach, etc...) can be used to sterilize a syringe. I said "ethanol" because a trace amount accidentally left in the syringe wouldn't cause any harm. Some of the other stuff.....

[abpt1]

LOL... you're right about that but I was talking about using it as a local.
LMAO ok then smh ......that would work just fine ....

[Mark Ducati]

I was talking about 200 proof USP alcohol (pure alcohol)

200 Proof Ethanol is worthless unless you're performing Organic Chemistry and need a water-free solvent... the way they get the last 10% out is to run it through some Benezen which is a carcinogen... not safe to drink. It also has to be used immediately, as soon as you take the cap off, water vapor in the air contaminates the bottle/vessel.

190 proof is safe to drink as long as it hasn't been "denatured" with some phenylthaline (a laxative that will give you diarhea fast).

'If you can, get some pur Di-Ethyl Ether... just like in the bugs bunhy cartoons, sniffing that stuff will get you higher than $hit... just like in the cartoons, everything slows down. Put a mask on the patient, drip it on to the mask and you can put then under for minor sugery... do no use Chloroform, as Chloroform is a carcinogen.

In a pinch, you can use carburator starter... that's pretty much ether, just spray in a bag and inhale.

[BigDumbGerman]

Geez, I always took the "booze for medicinal purposes" thing a whole different way. If you're all banged-up on JD, it's a lot easier to take a suture or wound-probing with foreceps? I dunno. Movies lie.

I do know--in younger times--fixing a particularly painful ingrown toenail required a pint of 86 proof whiskey (it's 80 proof now, they tell me), a razor blade and a leather glove to bite on. Instant relief, except for a hell of a hangover!

A short time later, I tried this approach with an abscessed molar with a pair of pliers and woke up face-down on the kitchen table in a puddle of blood and drool with pair of pliers sticking out of my mouth. The tooth didn't budge but did chip a lot. That dentist CHEWED MY ASS! Turned out novocain, proper training and tools and some antibiotics worked better than JD and pilers. Who'd have thought?

On the other hand, the weekly meetings are soothing and my sponsor is a nice guy.

;)

BDG