New here and would like to say Hi

[gundogblue]

This is my first post and I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Paul, and I live in IL, Im 59yrs old, and I've been shooting since I was eleven yrs old, until recently my interest in shooting has been with my two Savage tactical rifles, .308, and.223, and my Kimber 1911, and my FNP .45. I have an AR-15 that I shoot on occasion, and about ten yrs ago I bought a SAR-3, but to my shame I only put 300 rnds through her. But as of late I've been rethinking the need to use the AR-15, and SAR-3 as a more valuble set of skills. The American people in their infinate wisdom (53%) put Obama in office along with the socialist dems led my Dingy Harry, and the republican house who's leadership is beginning to be a big disapointment. With that being the case it seems as if the economy, and our freedoms are only going to get worse before they get better, so God forbid if a shtf situation should ever happen it seems to me that of all my weapons the AR-15, and SAR-3 will be the best to have on hand. Im no expert on the AK variants all I can tell you is of my personal experiance with them, and while not so much with the weapon itself but I served in Viet Nam with the 101st between May 70, to May 71, and I learned to have a great respect for the AK-47, and the enemy that used them. By the time I got to Nam the Army had worked out the problems the M-16 originally had, actually it was more of an Army problem than a rifle problem, and I can tell you that my M-16 never let me down, but I maintained it as well as conditions would allow. As for the AK-47 on the other hand, in the hands of our enemy it was indeed a formidable weapon, we captured tons of those things and many looked as if they had never been cleaned, many were rusted and full of mud, dried dirt, even vegitation, but when we tried to fire them, every single one of them went bang not only on semi, but full auto as well, it was amazing, their reliability is beyond reproach. The SAR-3 I have is a very nice weapon, the only ammo that I've fired out of it is the steel cased Russian stuff, I reload for my AR, so I guess those will work in my SAR-3 as well, the only issues I have with the weapon is that the front sight is canted a little to the left, and the two 30 rnd bakalite mags that I have for it are reliable if I don't put over 20 rnds in them, if I put 21 to 30 rnds in them the weapon jams, Im not sure what if any the fix is, but even with those minor issues I really like the weapon it seems to be a solid 200 yrd gun with more than exceptable accuracy, but it's her reliability that really makes her shine, as long as I only load 20 rnds in the mag, it seems as if it's impossible for her to malfunction. Anyway I just wanted to introduce myself, and I know I'll learn alot about my SAR-3 on this forum, and I hope to be able to contribute alot as well.
Paul

[btcave]

Welcome aboard!:dancingsmile:

[romak10/63UF]

Welcome to Gunsnet.net im wondering about your romanian sar 3 magazines.. you said after you put about 20 to 25 round the gun jams ? do the bullets just not chamber into the breech ? or do they get stuck under the barrel breech ? If you havnt cleaned out your bakelight mags completely taking them apart an cleaning the inside with a tooth bush an regular liquid dish soap it sounds like the magazine follower might be getting jamed inside the magazine well.. a good cleaning might fix this.

[slamfire51]

:welcome: gundogblue!!

Looks like we are the same age and enjoy the same type weapons.
Join in on the discussions in the different forums, and enjoy yourself.

[Gunreference1]

Paul, welcome to The Guns Network! Hope to see more posts from you.

Steve

[FunkyPertwee]

Unmodified AK-74 mags usually only work with u<20rnds. I think you can get Robinson arms followers that make them fully reliable, or buy the now expensive German Weiger, or Wieger magazine. Anyway I'm sure AKnut can give you a more complete answer.

[imanaknut]

Welcome to the group !!! :welcome:

THANK YOU for your service to this great country!!!!!

The SAR-3 was designed to use the German STG-940 system mag, commonly known as the Wieger system and hence the Wieger mag from the city they were built in, Wiesa Germany. These steel mags work as designed making the SAR-3 a great rifle. Wiegers are easy to spot as they are the only AK mag that has two round buttons in the floor plate to lock it in place.

The East German AK-74 mags that Century shipped with the SAR-3 are exactly as you found, as modified by Century with slightly opened feed lips, black paint on the top of the mag and the ".223" stamp in the floor plate are good for only 20 rounds. As stated above, getting the Robinson made follower will allow them to function at full capacity.

I have also seen people modify the East German follower by building them up with JB Weld to change the angle that the rounds sit on them. I have never done it, but I am sure somewhere on the net is a how-to.

[imanaknut]

Welcome to Gunsnet.net im wondering about your romanian sar 3 magazines.. you said after you put about 20 to 25 round the gun jams ? do the bullets just not chamber into the breech ? or do they get stuck under the barrel breech ? If you havnt cleaned out your bakelight mags completely taking them apart an cleaning the inside with a tooth bush an regular liquid dish soap it sounds like the magazine follower might be getting jamed inside the magazine well.. a good cleaning might fix this.

Please see my post on the AK-74 mags. What our new member found has been known for over 10 years as an issue with AK-74 mags that were improperly converted by Century to be used in the SAR-3. It saved them a couple of dollars per mag but caused the owner of the fine SAR-3 a lot of problems.

[imanaknut]

And one other thing that came to mind, which I decided to make separate instead of incorporating it into my post about the mag.

Check the hammer as it sits against the bolt. The SAR-3 used a smaller bolt than the standard AKM and because of that, the bolt has to travel further to contact it than normal. Although many left Century with the hammer resurfaced to strike the bolt squarely, many didn't which can result in damage to a very hard to find bolt.

[guns-n-tonic]

awesome story..thx for your service, i'm a newbie also and look forward to the forums!

[guns-n-tonic]

what about the bakelight mags from the east, they always worked for me on my 47, not sure of the 74 version

[ready]

Welcome and enjoy the show.

[old Grump]

Welcome to the site and I hope you are one of those radicals fighting to get your rights back in Illinois. It's a great state but good gosh you guys sure did get stuck with the smelly end of the barrel when it comes to politicians and us Cheese heads are only a step behind you.

[deth502]

:welcome: and thanks for your service!! :salute:

[gundogblue]

I'd like to thank all you guys for the warm welcome, and all the good advice, after reading all the replys I was able to find a Wieger mag at Apex Gun Parts, hopfully it will be here by the end of next week. I did try and clean up the inside of my bakalite mags, they weren't that dirty, and it didn't solve the problem, but as I said the mags are good if only 20 or less rnds are loaded into them, so I can live with that. Thursdays are my day at the range, and Im gonna start shooting the hell out of her until I get as proficiant as I can be with her, I think that SAR-3 and I are in for a GREAT relationship.
Paul :thgunssmall:

[TEN-32]

Howdy Paul and welcome from a fellow flatlander.

[Schuetzenman]

Hello Paul, welcome to Gunsnet. I'm an over 50 guy as well. I don't often bring up a members typing but your posts are challenging to read. At the end of a sentence double space to create a visual que to where one sentence ends and a new one begins. But enough of that on to gun details.

The SAR-3 as already was mentioned by imanaknut doesn't do well with the mags provided by the importer / maker Century Arms. I have a SAR-3 as well, it is my only AK type in my collection though once I owned about 6 more in 7.62x39 chambering and one in 5.45x39 AK74 chambering. I keep the SAR-3 as it uses the same ammo as my AR rifles. The SAR-3 is the most accurate of the SAR series of rifles Century offered and frankly is the most accurate type of AK when compared with all AK types. The round is the reason in my opinion.

I see you're getting one Weiger mag. I can understand why seeing that they are $30 bucks a pop now. I paid $10 to $12 max for mine. There are also Bulgarian 30 round magazines available that will fit and work in most SAR-3 rifles. A company called K-Var sells them as they are the direct importers of most things Bulgarian. As such they charge too much as they have no competition. Additionally I would point out that there is a small chance that the Bulgarian waffle pattern magazine may not work in your SAR-3. It is a small chance I'd say less than a 5% chance, but it is possible.

Your last option as ima mentioned is the Robinson Armament magazine followers, if they still make them. Let me check. http://www.robarm.com/ Ok their web site is a pain in the ass to navigate. Follow the link, give them a phone call and see if they still have or make the conversion follower for the 5.56 round. The reason why your mags don't work well beyond say 20 rounds is the shape of the 5.56 case vs. the shape of the 5.45x39 case.

The 5.45x39 has a lot of taper to the casing where as the 5.56 round is very straight with only a little taper. Because the 5.56 / .223 rounds are too straight the rear of the case sits too low and the more rounds you shove in the magazines the lower they go relatively speaking. If you've loaded 30 rounds you should notice that the rear of the last cartridges are loose as a goose under the feed lips at the back of the magazines. The Robinson followers have a different shape and lift the rim end of the round higher to keep it tracking more parallel to the feed lips.

Members here have built up followers with steel filled epoxy and then shaped them to fit so that they do the same thing, lift the rear of the cartridge up so that you can get a full 30 rounds in and then back out of the mag by firing them out. I've not done that as I was able to source the Weigers and the Bulgarian waffle mags. I probably have 30 mags that fit my one SAR-3 rifle so didn't feel the need to monkey with the follower on the mag that came with the rifle.

On the bright side if you get any AK74 clone that is currently on the market your mags will fit and feed 5.45x39 ammo in those weapons and hold 30 rounds as well. Which is a topic for another thread or post, the merits of the AK74 clone and the surplus ammo on the market for them.

[slamfire51]

Hello Paul, welcome to Gunsnet. I'm an over 50 guy as well. I don't often bring up a members typing but your posts are challenging to read. At the end of a sentence double space to create a visual que to where one sentence ends and a new one begins. But enough of that on to gun details.

The SAR-3 as already was mentioned by imanaknut doesn't do well with the mags provided by the importer / maker Century Arms. I have a SAR-3 as well, it is my only AK type in my collection though once I owned about 6 more in 7.62x39 chambering and one in 5.45x39 AK74 chambering. I keep the SAR-3 as it uses the same ammo as my AR rifles. The SAR-3 is the most accurate of the SAR series of rifles Century offered and frankly is the most accurate type of AK when compared with all AK types. The round is the reason in my opinion.

I see you're getting one Weiger mag. I can understand why seing that they are $30 bucks a pop now. I paid $10 to $12 max for mine. There are also Bulgarian 30 round magazines available that will fit and work in most SAR-3 rifles. A company called K-Var sells them as they are the direct importers of most things Bulgarian. As such they charge too much as they have no competition. Additionally I would point out that there is a small chance that the Bulgarian waffle pattern magazine may not work in your SAR-3. It is a small chance I'd say less than a 5% chance, but it is possible.

Your last option as ima mentioned is the Robinson Armament magazine followers, if they still make them. Let me check. http://www.robarm.com/ Ok their web site is a pain in the ass to navigate. Follow the link, give them a phone call and see if they still have or make the conversion follower for the 5.56 round. The reason why your mags don't work well beyond say 20 rounds is the shape of the 5.56 case vs. the shape of the 5.45x39 case.

The 5.45x39 has a lot of taper to the casing where as the 5.56 round is very straight with only a little taper. Because the 5.56 / .223 rounds are too straight the rear of the case sits too low and the more rounds you shove in the magazines the lower they go relatively speaking. If you've loaded 30 rounds you should notice that the rear of the last cartridges are loose as a goose under the feed lips at the back of the magazines. The Robinson followers have a different shape and lift the rim end of the round higher to keep it tracking more parallel to the feed lips.

Members here have built up followers with steel filled epoxy and then shaped them to fit so that they do the same thing, lift the rear of the cartridge up so that you can get a full 30 rounds in and then back out of the mag by firing them out. I've not done that as I was able to source the Weigers and the Bulgarian waffle mags. I probably have 30 mags that fit my one SAR-3 rifle so didn't feel the need to monkey with the follower on the mag that came with the rifle.

On the bright side if you get any AK74 clone that is currently on the market your mags will fit and feed 5.45x39 ammo in those weapons and hold 30 rounds as well. Which is a topic for another thread or post, the merits of the AK74 clone and the surplus ammo on the market for them.

Dang, did you really have to disclose the faults of us elderly here? That is suppose to be a well kept secret from the younger Whipper Snapper members. :laughingtohard::laughingtohard:

[KRUT555]

From one newbe to another ,Welcome.

[Full Otto]

Thursdays are my day at the range, and Im gonna start shooting the hell out of her until I get as proficiant as I can be with her

If your pointing east please check your background I'm sitting over here in Indiana. Oh and welcome

[gundogblue]

Thanks again for all the info, Schuetzenman all the info you gave me was an education in itself, I really appriciate it, Im looking forward to getting the Wieger mag, and I see that there are some guys that don't live real far from me. I belong to a very nice sportsman's club, if any of you guys with-in driving distance would ever like, we could go to the club and shoot, it's in Kankakee, about 1/2 hour south of me. Full Otto, do you live near the Il/Ind boarder? If so, have you ever been to the Willow Slough range near Lake Village Ind? I used to shoot there all the time until I joined the Xline Sportsmans Club. Oh yeah, I guess I out to warn you guys, I have a weird problem, when Im typing on the key-board, my spelling is awful, and putting together my sentences correctally is non-existent but when I sit down with a pen and paper the old fashion way I don't have those problems, I don't know, go figure!!
Paul :)

[Full Otto]

Full Otto, do you live near the Il/Ind boarder? If so, have you ever been to the Willow Slough range near Lake Village Ind?

I'm about 12 miles or so straight east of there. Been fishing there but I haven't used the range. I have my own place outside the back door

Here's an old thread you may have bumped into this member there. post 15
http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.php?5567-Checking-back-in...&highlight=Willow+Slough