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Schuetzenman
04-22-2011, 06:17 AM
Let's see what interest there is in really having a C&R Match. The topics are what kind of rifle / rifles, and if there is any interest in a C&R Pistol match.

Schuetzenman
04-22-2011, 06:33 AM
OK, here's my suggestion for a course of fire. For rifles not everybody can get 100 yards so I'd say 50 yards as standard. Yeah I know it's close but then nobody would be excluded. For Pistols 25 yards.

Shooting position, any military style postion. Example; off hand, prone, sitting or kneeling. No benches. Of course this is on an honor basis as nobody is going to see you shoot it from the forums.

Course of fire; 1, target each month for May, June, July and August. 10 shots on paper scored for points. Your best 3 targets from the 4 of the season (if you pick this option) would be selected for each competitor to compose your score in the competition.

If we go on a month by month basis then 1 target, 10 shots on paper with highest score = winner for that month.

Postage to send in targets is on the participant. Getting the targets in on time is on you too. 2 weeks after the end of the competition month any targets arriving beyond that point are disqualified. Try and get them sent in early. The earlier the better as we can then post a winner in a timely manner.

I will volunteer to be the match coordinator, score keeper and winning image poster. In the event that I should end up the high score guy I would like to have a second score keeper to validate the scoring.

Rules of scoring. We will use typical military High Power match rules, break the line with the bullet hole and get the next highest scoring point. If black remains between white score ring and the hole, no score up.

ltorlo64
04-22-2011, 07:07 AM
I can't do this every month, but I would do it when I can. How would you get us your address?

ps Why are you thinking of this at 0400 in the morning?

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 08:57 AM
I'll be shooting 50 yds with a Mosin
25 Yds with a CZ-82. Yikes!!!
I can do it any month, but chose the 3 month option.

Surplus or commercial ammo? I have surplus for the Mosins, but only commercial for the CZ.

Entry fees?????

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 09:05 AM
I have the trophy I won in 2004, and will donate it to the overall winner of the pistol match.

The plate says, "The Guns Network Curio and Relic Forums Pistol Marksman".

AKTexas
04-22-2011, 09:35 AM
I chose bolt gun I have plenty to choose from and will use a Makarov for handguns.

50-100 for rifle 25 will be tough with the Mak.

FunkyPertwee
04-22-2011, 10:34 AM
I'll be shooting 50 yds with a Mosin
25 Yds with a CZ-82. Yikes!!!
I can do it any month, but chose the 3 month option.

Surplus or commercial ammo? I have surplus for the Mosins, but only commercial for the CZ.

Entry fees?????

I don't think 25 yards should be too bad for the CZ. In my experience, its a pretty accurate little pistol. Shoots more like a full size.

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't think 25 yards should be too bad for the CZ. In my experience, its a pretty accurate little pistol. Shoots more like a full size.

I never shot mine at that distance for accuracy. More or less dumped a couple mags of Silver Bear HPs to make sure they would feed ok.

I'll be shooting Barnaul 95 gr FMJ.

FunkyPertwee
04-22-2011, 01:44 PM
I never shot mine at that distance for accuracy. More or less dumped a couple mags of Silver Bear HPs to make sure they would feed ok.

I'll be shooting Barnaul 95 gr FMJ.

I haven't shot mine in a while, but it seems to have about the same accuracy as my CZ75b or Browning Hi-power. Its just smaller and snappier.

Also in my experience, Russian 9x18 is more consistent than Russian 9x19, even if it is a little "sparky".

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 01:49 PM
I haven't shot mine in a while, but it seems to have about the same accuracy as my CZ75b or Browning Hi-power. Its just smaller and snappier.

Also in my experience, Russian 9x18 is more consistent than Russian 9x19, even if it is a little "sparky".

The recoil is "snappy" for sure. After a couple mags, the web between the thumb and fore finger was split.
I added a small piece of an old vacuum cleaner belt in that area. Soaked up some of the recoil.
Problem solved.

old Grump
04-22-2011, 05:39 PM
Just tell me when and where to send target and what target to use. I never got a response to my PM to gunsnet about doing this but I am glad to see somebody getting this thing going.

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 05:50 PM
Just tell me when and where to send target and what target to use. I never got a response to my PM to gunsnet about doing this but I am glad to see somebody getting this thing going.

I also sent David a PM today about getting the go ahead on this.

Schuetzenman
04-22-2011, 06:13 PM
Ok additional details. On ammo I'd say use surplus if you have it. I plan to use surp vs. commercial for the rifle stuff. If all you have is your handloads, well I guess that's OK as well unless there is an uproar against it. In my own case I have a mid 50's Belgian Police High Power that I'd use for the handgun. However I don't have any 9 mm surplus and really not much in the way of commercial except Gold Dot +P 124 gr. rounds. I do have a thousand bulk reloaded fmj's I made up for my Group Industries Uzi.

On the prize, if you want to actually bother with a trophy we can pony up some bucks to get something done up. Initially I was thinking maybe a Cirtificate stating who is the winner and the date etc.

I was thinking maybe a Grand Chamion of C&R for the high shooter of handgun, bolt gun and self loaders all combined. But I could see declairing a Champion of Pistol, Bolt Gun or Self Loading Rifle devisions as sub champions of each of the Grand Championship events that make up the total. Just some thoughts, nothing concrete at the moment.

I haven't participated in these in the past mostly due to my past job here in GA working me 60+ hours each week. My job since fall of 2009 is a lot less harsh in time requirements so I think I have enough time to participate / score in this.

Oh yeah, nearly forgot, how to get my address. PM me if you're going to participate and let me know what level of participation you are going to do. I'll PM you my contact informaton.

Last thing on a target to shoot, gotta find one to use for the event. For uniformity I would suggest I come up with a target and mail out one package containing all targets for the season; May, June, July and events you want to participate in; Bolt Rifle, Self Loading Rifle, Handgun. I would say you can photo copy the original targets for practice then when you think you're ready, switch to the official target that will probably be stamped to identify it as the real deal target. I've run postal matches before so this wouldn't be my first one to put on. This worked well in the past for the guys that shot in that one.

AKTexas
04-22-2011, 06:22 PM
I don't have a 25 yard range available any more so I'm out of the pistol. 50-100 is open for rifles.

I'm going to shoot My Turk Mauser with Turk ammunition. :thumbsup:

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 06:25 PM
Ok additional details. On ammo I'd say use surplus if you have it. I plan to use surp vs. commercial for the rifle stuff. If all you have is your handloads, well I guess that's OK as well unless there is an uproar against it. In my own case I have a mid 50's Belgian Police High Power that I'd use for the handgun. However I don't have any 9 mm surplus and really not much in the way of commercial except Gold Dot +P 124 gr. rounds. I do have a thousand bulk reloaded fmj's I made up for my Group Industries Uzi.

On the prize, if you want to actually bother with a trophy we can pony up some bucks to get something done up. Initially I was thinking maybe a Cirtificate stating who is the winner and the date etc.

I was thinking maybe a Grand Chamion of C&R for the high shooter of handgun, bolt gun and self loaders all combined. But I could see declairing a Champion of Pistol, Bolt Gun or Self Loading Rifle devisions as sub champions of each of the Grand Championship events that make up the total. Just some thoughts, nothing concrete at the moment.

I haven't participated in these in the past mostly due to my past job here in GA working me 60+ hours each week. My job since fall of 2009 is a lot less harsh in time requirements so I think I have enough time to participate / score in this.

Oh yeah, nearly forgot, how to get my address. PM me if you're going to participate and let me know what level of participation you are going to do. I'll PM you my contact informaton.

Last thing on a target to shoot, gotta find one to use for the event. For uniformity I would suggest I come up with a target and mail out one package containing all targets for the season; May, June, July and events you want to participate in; Bolt Rifle, Self Loading Rifle, Handgun. I would say you can photo copy the original targets for practice then when you think you're ready, switch to the official target that will probably be stamped to identify it as the real deal target. I've run postal matches before so this wouldn't be my first one to put on. This worked well in the past for the guys that shot in that one.

I have no problem with donating the trophy.
But if you prefer giving certificates, that's fine too.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/Canis-latrans/trophy001.jpg

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 06:27 PM
I don't have a 25 yard range available any more so I'm out of the pistol. 50-100 is open for rifles.

I'm going to shoot My Turk Mauser with Turk ammunition. :thumbsup:

Why not stick up a cheapo target stand @ 25 yds.?

AKTexas
04-22-2011, 06:31 PM
Why not stick up a cheapo target stand @ 25 yds.?

I'd have to go to my deer lease to shoot 4 hour drive lol.

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 06:35 PM
I'd have to go to my deer lease to shoot 4 hour drive lol.

So, where is the 50-100 yd. range??
No 25 yd. berms?

Move to the country and shoot out your back door like I do.

Schuetzenman
04-22-2011, 06:36 PM
I have no problem with donating the trophy.
But if you prefer giving certificates, that's fine too.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/Canis-latrans/trophy001.jpg

It's most generous of you Slamfire51 to donate your original C&R Trophy. I'm not sure what a trophy for the two rifle divisions would cost. I think there's as mall trophy shop on my way to work. I can stop in and see what something might cost. Say how tall is that one? If we do one for Bolt Gun and one for Self Loading Rifle I'd like to keep them all similar in size. Maybe do one a bit larger for the Overall Champion slot. Which brings up cost to participate. I think any targets we use will probably fit in a 8.5 x 11 envelope. I'm thinking $10 bucks from each participant if we want to do trophies. Hopefully things haven't inflated so much that $10 won't mail 12 targets and eventually pay for trophies and some shipping charges.

Schuetzenman
04-22-2011, 06:37 PM
I'd have to go to my deer lease to shoot 4 hour drive lol.

Any indoor range you could go to?

slamfire51
04-22-2011, 06:40 PM
It's most generous of you Slamfire51 to donate your original C&R Trophy. I'm not sure what a trophy for the two rifle divisions would cost. I think there's as mall trophy shop on my way to work. I can stop in and see what something might cost. Say how tall is that one? If we do one for Bolt Gun and one for Self Loading Rifle I'd like to keep them all similar in size. Maybe do one a bit larger for the Overall Champion slot. Which brings up cost to participate. I think any targets we use will probably fit in a 8.5 x 11 envelope. I'm thinking $10 bucks from each participant if we want to do trophies. Hopefully things haven't inflated so much that $10 won't mail 12 targets and eventually pay for trophies and some shipping charges.

The trophy is 6.5" tall.
The white cultured marble base is 4" x 2".

AKTexas
04-22-2011, 06:44 PM
So, where is the 50-100 yd. range??
No 25 yd. berms?

Move to the country and shoot out your back door like I do.

They had 2 25 yard lines but closed them. The 4 15's are all that is left for the long range handguns. Only a handful of hand-gunners used it. They added more 7 yard lanes by cutting down on the 15 yard lines and taking out the 25's.


Any indoor range you could go to?

Bass Pro has an indoor but ridiculous priced. I'll look around. I will be making a trip to the lease May 6th and I can set up a target there. I already have 25 yards marked out.

AKTexas
04-26-2011, 05:23 PM
So what are the plans on this now?

I'm going to the lease soon and will take a Garand, a surplus bolt gun, and possibly a 1911 made in 1917.

25 yards for the 1911

50-100 with the rifles.

Any specific targets?

Schuetzenman
04-26-2011, 06:23 PM
So what are the plans on this now?

I'm going to the lease soon and will take a Garand, a surplus bolt gun, and possibly a 1911 made in 1917.

25 yards for the 1911

50-100 with the rifles.

Any specific targets?

Pistol 25 yards offhand, rifles at 50 yards any military position. Still working on a target.

Schuetzenman
04-27-2011, 10:05 PM
Ok I think I have a viable target. I just need to see if I can print it at work. I work for a division of a copier manufacturing company. We do toner cartridges and toner where I work. Big copiers are all over the place, so I'm going to see if I can take the image in and mass produce it there.

It's going to take up an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper. The center is a 1" approximately and is worth 10 points. Each ring is 1/2 inch wide and there is a scoring ring out to 3 points in value. The black of the bull is out to the 5 ring.

I think this will be OK for a handgun target and can be used for the 50 yard rifle competition. Should be easy enough to see with iron sights as the black is 6 inches across.

slamfire51
04-27-2011, 10:08 PM
Ok I think I have a viable target. I just need to see if I can print it at work. I work for a division of a copier manufacturing company. We do toner cartridges and toner where I work. Big copiers are all over the place, so I'm going to see if I can take the image in and mass produce it there.

It's going to take up an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper. The center is a 1" approximately and is worth 10 points. Each ring is 1/2 inch wide and there is a scoring ring out to 3 points in value. The black of the bull is out to the 5 ring.

I think this will be OK for a handgun target and can be used for the 50 yard rifle competition. Should be easy enough to see with iron sights as the black is 6 inches across.

Excellent.

lpspinner
04-28-2011, 02:09 AM
I'm in!

Schuetzenman
04-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Ok the file of the target prints perfectly at work on the nearest b&W printer near my desk. So I really need to know how many are in. Need PM's to me so I can send you contact information and vice versa so that I can send out the targets after I get registration fees.

slamfire51
04-28-2011, 06:36 PM
I'm in.
PM sent.

AKTexas
04-28-2011, 06:37 PM
I'm in.

PM inbound.

Schuetzenman
04-28-2011, 06:52 PM
I'm in.

PM inbound.

PM replied to with my contact information.

Schuetzenman
04-30-2011, 12:21 PM
OK, over 30 votes and yet maybe only 4 or 5 signing up! Come on people you wanted a C&R postal match to happen and it will but honestly how much excitment can we get out of 5 players?

To recap the competition it will go as follows:
1. There will be 3 legs of competition; Handgun at 25 yards, Bolt Gun at 50 yards and Self Loading Rifle at 50 yards.
2. Target has a 6" black bull, scoring rings from 10 to 3 points. Center 10 ring is 1 inch wide, score rings are 1/2" wide. Target is on an 8.5 x 11" sheet of paper.
3. You will get 6 argets per month, 2 for each of the 3 legs of the match. You are to shoot 5 shots for recored on each target to make it easier to score hits. That is a total of 30 shots; 20 rifle and 10 handgun if you shoot all legs of the match.
4. You can enter only 1, or 2 legs if you lack a weapon to compete with. This will make you eligible to win in that class. You will however not be in the Grand Championship match which is the high shooter in all 3 events.
5. The competition is 4 months but only your 3 highest scores in each event will count, I will drop your lowest score. This way if you have bad month in any event you won't have to feel like it is hopeless.
6. Full match fee for all 3 events and the Grand Championship of C&R is $10 bucks entry fee for the season. If you want to enter individual events it's $4 bucks for the 4 months total per event. Example; enter pistol only and pay $4. Enter bolt gun and self loading rifle pay $8 bucks total.

Small trophies will be given out for each leg of he envent to the high shooter in each leg. A larger trophie will be given out to the Grand Champion.

Contact me on Gunsnet for my contact information as in where to send the money and my email addy.

Alright, now get off the couch and out of the computer chair and break out those C&R's you couch potatoes!

Schuetzenman
05-03-2011, 06:06 PM
FYI people the Shoot is a GO! Targets ready to ship out once I receive match fees! PM me for my mailing address!

whos2kno
05-04-2011, 08:51 PM
im up for a pistol match even though i suck a pistols im up for it.

i have a trophy i got from linda that redstar had when we where going to do a match before he died. im sure redstar would want it to go to a match

Schuetzenman
05-04-2011, 09:55 PM
im up for a pistol match even though i suck a pistols im up for it.

i have a trophy i got from linda that redstar had when we where going to do a match before he died. im sure redstar would want it to go to a match

It's not so much about being a great shooter but the fun that should be had to drag out the old guns, get to a range and burn some rounds. This match will give us all a reason to get out there each month for an afternoon. I say you should bring out one of your vast SKS collection pieces and do the self loading rifle phase of the overall competiton. If you have a Mosin or any Mauser then you have the bolt gun taken care of too.

T2K
05-05-2011, 04:08 AM
If I lived in the US, I would join for sure! But, I'm still based overseas. I did participate in one of these years ago, organized on this board (2004?) since it was just one target and I shot it while I was home on vacation. I used an Arisaka 38 carbine and came in an impressive 11th out of 15, or something equally unmarksmanly. :)

Enjoy!

lpspinner
05-06-2011, 08:11 PM
Ok, PM sent. :)

FunkyPertwee
05-06-2011, 08:12 PM
Sent my entry fee today.

This ought to be fun. I even set up an old log to shoot out back in case I can't make it to the range one day.

Schuetzenman
05-07-2011, 12:36 AM
lpspinner your PM is replied to. To Funky, yes this should be fun and a great excuse for why we all need to shoot at least one afternoon each month.

So far Old Grump and AKTexas are the two entry fees that have arrived. I was hoping to send all the targets out at one time but it seems fees are coming in so widely spaced I'm just going to go ahead and ship their targets Monday.

To anyone that hasn't singed up yet, drop me a PM for my mailing address, there IS still time to get in on all 4 months for all of the 3 events.