4.6x30

[old Grump]

Has anybody shot a MP7 or P46 in 4.6X30 and would you consider it a serious combat round. I was fooling around looking at my ammo board and realized I knew nothing about this little pipsqueak 18 caliber round and started to research it. In all fairness it leaves me underwhelmed, What can I do with it that I can't do with a 22 mag?

I'd never heard of it like I said before and now all over the place it is available, but for what. I can't find any guns for it. I see Graf and Sons has it in FMJ, SJSP and Frangible for under $24 for boxes of 50. I'm thinking a frangible 18 caliber under 40 grain bullet, without falling apart under impact its almost a frangible fragment while its still whole.

Any defenders of this cartridge, squirrel hunters, man eating grass hoppers, Kodiak Bear, invading Cartel members in full Swat uniforms and armor...anything?

[AKTexas]

Has anybody shot a MP7 or P46 in 4.6X30 and would you consider it a serious combat round. I was fooling around looking at my ammo board and realized I knew nothing about this little pipsqueak 18 caliber round and started to research it. In all fairness it leaves me underwhelmed, What can I do with it that I can't do with a 22 mag?

I'd never heard of it like I said before and now all over the place it is available, but for what. I can't find any guns for it. I see Graf and Sons has it in FMJ, SJSP and Frangible for under $24 for boxes of 50. I'm thinking a frangible 18 caliber under 40 grain bullet, without falling apart under impact its almost a frangible fragment while its still whole.

Any defenders of this cartridge, squirrel hunters, man eating grass hoppers, Kodiak Bear, invading Cartel members in full Swat uniforms and armor...anything?

Edit: Apparently we can buy ammo for a gun we cannot own.

[Gunreference1]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/4.6x30mm%2C_5.7x28mm%2C_.30_M1_Carbine.jpg/300px-4.6x30mm%2C_5.7x28mm%2C_.30_M1_Carbine.jpg

From left to right: 4.6x30mm, 5.7x28mm, .30 Carbine.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/4%2C6_x_30.jpg/400px-4%2C6_x_30.jpg

Reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.6x30mm

It's an .18 caliber bullet with a maximum weight of 40 grains in factory ammunition with a force not exceeding 350 ft-lbs of energy. No, it doesn't excite me at all.

Steve

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

Has anybody shot a MP7 or P46 in 4.6X30 and would you consider it a serious combat round. I was fooling around looking at my ammo board and realized I knew nothing about this little pipsqueak 18 caliber round and started to research it. In all fairness it leaves me underwhelmed, What can I do with it that I can't do with a 22 mag?

I'd never heard of it like I said before and now all over the place it is available, but for what. I can't find any guns for it. I see Graf and Sons has it in FMJ, SJSP and Frangible for under $24 for boxes of 50. I'm thinking a frangible 18 caliber under 40 grain bullet, without falling apart under impact its almost a frangible fragment while its still whole.

Any defenders of this cartridge, squirrel hunters, man eating grass hoppers, Kodiak Bear, invading Cartel members in full Swat uniforms and armor...anything?
The original pourpose was to defeat soviet body armor (the most common being worn by European criminals...) at 300 yards.

What it's supposed to accomplish on the other side of that armor is more of a mystery to me though...

[matshock]

Novelty.

But for reference, .22mag does not do as well in a pistol as 5.7/4.6- you'll get a lot of muzzle flash and not nearly as much energy compared to those.

EDIT: for a zippy pistol round just go with 7.62 TOK in a Polish TT.

[AKTexas]

Novelty.

But for reference, .22mag does not do as well in a pistol as 5.7/4.6- you'll get a lot of muzzle flash and not nearly as much energy compared to those.

EDIT: for a zippy pistol round just go with 7.62 TOK in a Polish TT.

The 7.62 Tok is a zippy round.I would still like to find a way to get in a modern handgun.

[raxar]

I have a book that details the round and the gun that chambers it, but I really don't remember anything about it other that it's basicly supposed to be a competitor to the 5.7x28 and it looks like something out of the videogame "Halo". if you're interested in that style of cartridge the chinese have one too, 5.8xsomething which is chambered in SMGs (or "personal defense weapons" as is the "proper" term") and a pistol. The russians also have one thats similar, the 5.45x17, but it's only chambered in a small pistol, and is meant to be more of a pocket gun cartridge.

[old Grump]

What got me is if there is a commercial gun out there for it I haven't seen it. What piqued my interest is a German poster has a few hundred rounds of it but he wants to neck it down, to .17 caliber and put it in a bolt action rifle which he is going to have to have a chamber reamer made in order to do it. There is already a .17 HMR and 17 Remington. What is he gaining? You have a 40 grain 18 caliber bullet moving out at 960 fps. He wants to change that to a 17 caliber bullet weighing 25-30 grains moving another 100 fps faster, maybe 200 fps.

Okay, FMJ and spitzer point makes it armor piercing but it has to be like sticking a guy with a 1 gauge knitting needle when you really want a bayonet or bowie knife. Is the idea to stick a whole magazine of teeny tiny bullets in the enemy in the hopes he will bleed to death before he shoots you or are you just trying to irritate the guy without hurting him to bad. Does anybody have a gun or a picture of a civilian gun for this ammo, if they aren't out there than why is the ammo available?

I wouldn't want to use it for rats in my house, I don't need a bunch of holes in my floors and walls even if they can be plugged with a few toothpicks. Rabbit hunting, 50 yard prairie dog hunting, man eating hummingbirds?

[raxar]

wikipedia says there are just a few guns chambered in it, a couple PDW and a couple pistols, none of which I've seen in the states. it's supposed to be along the lines of the .30 carbine in terms of use, IE a light weapon carried by people who probably won't be getting shot at. Personally I think they looked at the 5.7 and thought "gee, if 22 caliber is good, 18 caliber must be even better. it is supposed to tumble on impact but I too have doubts about performance and practicality. the ammo thats out there is intended for collectors I guess

[HDR]

What it's supposed to accomplish on the other side of that armor is more of a mystery to me though...

Potentially make him seek medical attention which can be good for LE. ;)


Edit: Apparently we can buy ammo for a gun we cannot own.

You might have hit the answer.


the chinese have one too, 5.8xsomething which is chambered in SMGs (or "personal defense weapons" as is the "proper" term")

Chambered in small SMGs, they are specialty rounds for small subgun use.


The russians also have one thats similar, the 5.45x17, but it's only chambered in a small pistol, and is meant to be more of a pocket gun cartridge.

Compare it to a NAA in 22 Mag. ;)

[gewehr44]

I was checking out the Wiki entry on the 4.7 & saw a new 8mm (ok, 7.92mm) cartridge linked at the bottom. Check out the odd bullets available for it. Interesting that its based on a cut down .30 carbine case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92x24mm
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/792patNreeks.JPG/300px-792patNreeks.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/792fS2fbul1.JPG

[mriddick]

I was checking out the Wiki entry on the 4.7 & saw a new 8mm (ok, 7.92mm) cartridge linked at the bottom. Check out the odd bullets available for it. Interesting that its based on a cut down .30 carbine case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92x24mm
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/792patNreeks.JPG/300px-792patNreeks.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/792fS2fbul1.JPG

Looks like someone wants to reinvent the 30 cal Pedersen...

[awp101]

What can I do with it that I can't do with a 22 mag?
Reload it...

[old Grump]

Reload it...

You volunteering to reload thise teeny ween itty bitty bullets if I can find and buy a gun to shoot them. I'd need a dadburn magnifying glass and tweezers to handle them...and a few days off of the coffee routine.

[awp101]

Can't be much harder than the .22 Hornet I haven't reloaded yet...:lool:

[raxar]

You volunteering to reload thise teeny ween itty bitty bullets if I can find and buy a gun to shoot them. I'd need a dadburn magnifying glass and tweezers to handle them...and a few days off of the coffee routine.


on the plus side no messing with powder scales, all you have to do is count out the individual grains of powder and put them in with tweezers, should give you super consistent ammo.

[awp101]

:lool:

[HDR]

Looks like someone wants to reinvent the 30 cal Pedersen...

Pedersen had a sense of humor,


When Pedersen left England in 1932 he went to Japan to try and interest them in his rifle. They experimented with the design from 1932 until 1936 when WW2 started for them. One of their design changes was the use of a 10 round Mannlicher style rotary magazine instead of the 10 round (8 round when the Garand was changed to 30-06) en bloc clip that both the Garand & Pedersen used. The Japanese Pedersen is the only one that has the spool magazine.

Apparently Pedersen never told the Japanese about the need for lubricated ammo & they never figured it out. So the rifle never performed to their satisfaction. By 1935 it had progressed to the point that they made 12 rifles & 12 carbines for field testing. In 1936 Japan invaded China and all semi auto rifle development work came to a halt at that time.